7:03 PM - Sir Tomas Trexington: I know you think life is deterministic, but I know that it isn't. You will have the freedom to choose who you want to be. That isn't easy but it is the honest to god truth.
7:04 PM - Sir Tomas Trexington: The flaws of your parents don't define you. You define you.
7:05 PM - Sir Tomas Trexington: If you want to move out asap though, you need to make connections with places you might like to work. Start small, get your freedom and then work up if you want to.
7:05 PM - Sir Tomas Trexington: You gotta go and talk to people and ask for jobs.
7:05 PM - Sir Tomas Trexington: It will be demeaning at first, but then you will find a place where you belong. And I mean literally belong. They will be expecting you to be there every day.
7:06 PM - Sir Tomas Trexington: If you want to move out you need to do some hard things.
7:07 PM - Sir Tomas Trexington: What do you think?
7:08 PM - Inevitable: i think its something that needs preparation
7:08 PM - Inevitable: thing is belief can be fostered in anything
7:08 PM - Inevitable: whether that's a belief in ghosts, magic, ancient artifacts, etc
7:08 PM - Inevitable: so im not gonna engage the fact you dont think life is deterministic cus we predicate ourselves on different things
7:09 PM - Inevitable: not to say your side is illogical - but to assume something unassumable based upon the objective facts we have without making superstitious leaps isnt entirely reasonable at least in my opinion
7:09 PM - Inevitable: in the context of a religious person, it makes perfect sense
7:09 PM - Inevitable: since god bestowed free will to everyone
7:09 PM - Inevitable: so either one of us could be right
7:09 PM - Inevitable: i could be flat out wrong
7:09 PM - Inevitable: and im ok to live with that
7:09 PM - Sir Tomas Trexington: Sorry. That wasn't my main point. Even if life was deterministic I think it hardly matters. Is it true that you want to move out?
7:09 PM - Inevitable: i suppose i just dont approve when you say "know" because you're pretty much being a bit dogmatic in saying that you know for a fact im wrong
7:10 PM - Inevitable: not that you "think", grounding it in opinion, belief and thought, but are rather putting something dogmatically down as you "know" it is, something alot stronger than a colloquial reference to belief
7:10 PM - Inevitable: yeah sorry
7:10 PM - Sir Tomas Trexington: Perhaps deterministically, you will aquire these things in time. My point is more so that you will have to put the work in.
7:10 PM - Inevitable: i suppose you were just speaking colloquially
7:10 PM - Inevitable: yeah i understood that
7:10 PM - Inevitable: i suppose i wanted to discuss that sub-point
7:10 PM - Inevitable: but yaeh you're right
7:10 PM - Inevitable: connections are important
7:10 PM - Sir Tomas Trexington: You get to choose that, even if it isn't clear that you do. It seems to me that it looks at least like you do.
7:10 PM - Inevitable: so is planning
7:10 PM - Inevitable: dont get me wrong, i think i can choose it
7:11 PM - Inevitable: i just think i have to be in circumstances that gravitate my psychology towards a particular action - so im not firmly deterministic
7:11 PM - Sir Tomas Trexington: Planning is less important in my mind. Just muddle through until you can work out what sort of things might be worth planning for.
7:11 PM - Inevitable: there's a part of determinism that professes peoplec ant be held accountable for their actions
7:12 PM - Inevitable: i think this is fundamentally wrong since when they commit things, normally the repurcussions and the action themself is run by their logical and emotional faculties to discern what option they gravitate towards and do it as a result since they dont have any other reason to not do something that makes the most sense to them
7:12 PM - Inevitable: id say im half-deterministic
7:12 PM - Sir Tomas Trexington: Ok well I actually agree with that.
7:12 PM - Inevitable: sorry, im not meaning to turn this into a philosophical discussion
7:12 PM - Inevitable: i suppose the focus should be on future plans, but yeah
7:12 PM - Sir Tomas Trexington: I think you get to determine the course of your life, but perhaps not the individual circumstances. This has to be the truth because most of existence is forever going to be outside the reach of your control. Or mine.
7:13 PM - Sir Tomas Trexington: That is just a fact.
7:13 PM - Inevitable: you can determine the course of your life with what you have in the moment, and that is all liable to change
7:14 PM - Inevitable: deterministic or not
7:14 PM - Sir Tomas Trexington: Sure, but you don't only have your parents. You have a lot more than that.
7:14 PM - Inevitable: either way
7:14 PM - Inevitable: most of existence will be far outside my reach anyway
7:14 PM - Inevitable: so i dont believee you can predicate a justification on that reason
7:14 PM - Sir Tomas Trexington: Thing is, I think that you can actively choose not to be a certain way. That is part of that half determinism in my understanding.
7:14 PM - Inevitable: i agree with that
7:15 PM - Sir Tomas Trexington: We actually have no disagreement then. When I say that you get to choose certain things, that is the truth regardless of if the universe will always force 1 + 1 to equal 2.
7:16 PM - Sir Tomas Trexington: Interesting conversation.
7:16 PM - Sir Tomas Trexington: But yeah. I know it is hard not to think about this problem with your mum right now, but trust me, it isn't forever.
7:16 PM - Inevitable: well i suppose the way i see it is that the 1 + 1 = 2, the 2 would be the end result
7:16 PM - Inevitable: and the first 1 can equate to your decision and 1 the repurcussion
7:17 PM - Inevitable: so while you could choose something, you can just as easily choose something else if a factor arises to change your psychological gravitation towards something
7:17 PM - Sir Tomas Trexington: Yes but you have some capacity to determine even that.
7:17 PM - Inevitable: which is deterministic if you throw in a new element and that person's beliefs are intuitively changed in the sight of a new explanation or evidence that makes sense to them or that they want to believe based on psychological emotion or experience
7:17 PM - Inevitable: sure so i would argue with determining something would raise a new factor
7:18 PM - Inevitable: and then you would have to adapt to that
7:18 PM - Inevitable: upon the basis of psychological construct which houses emotion and cognitive abilities and beliefs
7:18 PM - Sir Tomas Trexington: Actually this is really interesting.
7:18 PM - Inevitable: im trying. i had a bad night of sleep, so im trying
7:19 PM - Sir Tomas Trexington: You are almost saying that we are forced to fight against the deterministic elements of the universe in order to maintain the facade of value, or lack thereof.
7:19 PM - Inevitable: id say the factors take effect
7:19 PM - Inevitable: i wouldnt say we fight agains them per se
7:20 PM - Sir Tomas Trexington: No no let me continue on with this thought for a second.
7:20 PM - Sir Tomas Trexington: Think of a pie graph right?
7:20 PM - Inevitable: e.g threat 1 takes affect on player 1. player 1 has INT stat of 8, and kind stat of 6. player tries to pacify 1, but is overwhelmed by a sense of urgency to save oneself. kind stat isnt high enough
7:20 PM - Sir Tomas Trexington: One half is what you get to choose, and the other half is what you don't.
7:20 PM - Sir Tomas Trexington: It seems to me that having more control over what you don't get to choose is an honourable goal.
7:21 PM - Sir Tomas Trexington: I think that is why individual liberty is a worthy cause, instead of governmental control, for instance.
7:21 PM - Inevitable: i personally dont think its that simple
7:21 PM - Inevitable: so when you say control over what you dont
7:22 PM - Inevitable: i feel that defeats the purpose of humans because by nature we're flawed, and by nature we have psychological weakpoints, we make mistakes - we mispredict, and we're vulnerable to certain things that threaten our very existence
7:22 PM - Inevitable: so you cant control all of your life
7:22 PM - Inevitable: you can merely try to assess whats infront of you to forward the best possible outcome that you can muster
7:22 PM - Inevitable: that doesnt dictate the result to what you want it, that merely sets it in motion
7:23 PM - Inevitable: so for instance
7:23 PM - Inevitable: you might predict on a highway at peak time it'll take 45 minutes to arrive at a specific destination
7:23 PM - Inevitable: there's been a sealing on one of the sectors that allow cars in - closing off a demographic of people from getting in, assuming there's no way for them to get through since people arent letting them in indicative of some sort of prodigious accident or leak of some sort
7:23 PM - Sir Tomas Trexington: "you can merely try to assess whats infront of you to forward the best possible outcome that you can muster"
7:23 PM - Inevitable: they could take the long way, but most opt not to
7:24 PM - Inevitable: as a result, its a clear shot, and it takes only around 25 minutes
7:24 PM - Inevitable: the human didnt predict correctly, it was flawed, but he did so based on good evidence
7:24 PM - Inevitable: so he couldnt control the outcome
7:24 PM - Sir Tomas Trexington: That in itself is a choice.
7:24 PM - Inevitable: but he could at least account for the current predicament and he did well on what he knew
7:24 PM - Inevitable: we humans arent omniscent or omnipresent
7:24 PM - Inevitable: we're fundamentally flawed
7:24 PM - Sir Tomas Trexington: You don't actually have to pick the best outcome you can muster.
7:24 PM - Inevitable: we intuitively psychologically gravitate towards the best logical outcome, or we let our emotions dictate us
7:25 PM - Inevitable: whether that be in what we "want" to believe or "do" at the expense of the fact that we think it isnt a logical thing to do
7:25 PM - Inevitable: humans by nature seek comfort
7:25 PM - Inevitable: humans by nature seek success
7:25 PM - Inevitable: humans thus do what they feel most close to
7:25 PM - Inevitable: what they're most comfortable with at times