03[18:29] * Circe (circeae@circular.sorceress.your.doom) has joined #WonderEmporium
[18:29] <+ssj4_Vivi> :o
03[18:29] * Ev|rest sets mode: +o Circe
[18:29] <@Circe> Hi guys
01[18:29] <&vez|nothere> Circe :o
[18:29] <+MoGlin> hello Circe.
02[18:29] <@Circe> Ev told me there's a significant amount of confusion regarding the rating center, the AQ Q&A and the changes with the newly removed CR&A
[18:29] <+MoGlin> yes
[18:30] <@Circe> I thought I'd drop in to see if we can clear some of it up
[18:31] <+MoGlin> please do.
[18:32] <@Circe> The fact is that the CR&A didn't have any AKs. It had Goofy, who's one of the busiest folks around. The lack of staff meant that we had to act, to do something. The decision between myself, Icemaster Yeti and Scakk was that we merge it with the Q&A, so that the "asking" aspect of character advice was preserved.
[18:32] <+Ebil> O_o
[18:32] <@Circe> However, one thing that I actively did not perserve - meaning I went out of my way to make sure it went away - was the rating centre structure of the CR&A.
[18:33] <@Circe> The forum member is the heart of the rating centre, but it has also become the authority. And that's not a legitimate choice for the AE forums. The reason there's only one centre permitted in the Q&A is because it needs to be overseen by a member of forum staff and the staff assistants.
[18:35] <+MoGlin> Circe, I would like to point out that it is not truly "authority", in that sense of the word. We don't truly have the power to decline someone of rating, unless they break the rules, which is something one should never do in the first place. Even then, ratings are usually given. We have no true power over ratees.
[18:35] <@Circe> But you have power over raters. They applied to existing raters.
[18:35] <+MoGlin> That is true. But we never truly denied anyone from becoming a rater.
[18:35] <+MoGlin> If they were denied, they were properly schooled, so that they might be accepted.
[18:36] <+MoGlin> a fair system, if I might add, as it simply added to their AQ knowledge.
[18:36] <@Circe> The point is that only forum staff should be in a position to tell someone what they can and cannot do on the forums.
03[18:36] * Doomsday (doomsday.th@Doomsday.Dooooooooooom) has joined #WonderEmporium
03[18:36] * TopHat sets mode: +v Doomsday
[18:36] <+MoGlin> right, but no one is saying you cannot rate in the open forums.
[18:36] <@Circe> Added to that the fact that there isn't the demand from the greater population for rating, we felt it was in the forum's best interests to merge it so both needs are covered.
[18:36] <+MoGlin> That is rather the point of rating centers, to band together a group of raters.
[18:37] <+MoGlin> Yes, there isn't much demand. But, you are more likely to use something if you have it. I would look at it as more centers = more ratees.
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[18:38] <@Circe> That's a bridge that we'll cross when we get to it. For now, the single rating centre will fill that void and if more become necessary, Goofy can address that with me then.
[18:38] <&Ev|rest> I've mentioned before Dev that "X many raters" = "X many ratees done", not "X many centers" = "X many ratees done"
[18:38] <&Ev|rest> there's really no practical reason for more centers to be more efficient, especially if there's a lack of people wishing to actively rate
[18:39] <+MoGlin> All I would ask would be for a "trial run" of sorts.
[18:39] <@Circe> The existing rating centre is the trial run
[18:39] <@Circe> I'm afraid that more will not be added until a need is demonstrated.
[18:41] <+Deimius> If I may add, that yesterday when rating requests we open at wonder emporium, they filled up in around 15 minutes.
[18:41] <+Deimius> were*
[18:42] <&Ev|rest> I'd point out that if more raters were in one center, more requests could be done more quickly and demand would be satisfied to a greater degree
[18:42] <+MoGlin> :/ the point of a variety of centers was that some of us did not want to be united under a specific banner, if that makes sense.
[18:42] <+MoGlin> it's like going to college. You don't necessarily want to go to a single college, which is why you apply to many.
[18:43] <+MoGlin> not the strongest of metaphors, but I believe it serves its purpose.
[18:43] <@Circe> This isn't medieval Scotland, MoGlin. :) The new system "unites" you under the AE banner. One official center in the one official forum because there is one official game.
[18:43] <%Gohan> If I may be so bold, in the past, more rating centers were opened because a specified group of raters did not really identify with the status of a current rating center.
[18:43] <%Gohan> For instance, the current one requires that ratees need to be level 75 and up. Their raters like that notion, but my group of raters felt that we should expand to lower leveled characters. namely, level 60+. That way, we can get to the lower level people
[18:44] <@Circe> The limitations placed on the existing rating center were not mine. If it needs to be broadened, that's something best addressed with Scakk, as he's the one who sanctioned the existing centre.
[18:44] <+Ebil> Or, Goofy on IRC.
[18:44] <+Ebil> :P
[18:45] <+MoGlin> thanks for that, Ebil >.<
[18:45] <+Ebil> :3
[18:46] <+Ebil> Hey, I needed a say in this.
[18:46] <+MoGlin> I'm still not fully understanding this one fact. People apply to the center knowing that they may get denied. It's a sort of unwritten contract that they abide to. If no one complains about it, why is it a necessity to change? :/ It's not as if this "extra power" extends out of our thread.
03[18:47] * Veritas (Veritas@9ACCB5.C201AA.A577A4.079449) has joined #WonderEmporium
[18:47] <+MoGlin> In that sense, a thread starter could be deemed with unnecessary power, because by deleting their post, they are deleting the posts of everyone who replied to their thread.
03[18:47] * TopHat sets mode: +o Veritas
[18:48] <@Circe> Having power in the thread is a problem.
[18:48] <@Circe> No forum member can assert influence or authority over another.
[18:49] <+MoGlin> during the golden age of rating, this was not an issue. I ask, why is it now? :/
[18:49] <+MoGlin> people came into ratings accepting that fact, and not complaining about it.
[18:49] <@Circe> The blunt answer is because I think it's wrong. I took over as head forum administrator and think it's wrong to let people assert authority over others without any checks or balances.
[18:50] <+MoGlin> Is it truly asserting authority if they agree to it? :/ I would be inclined to say no.
[18:50] <%Gohan> A "Head" rater only had power in the sense that he was able to streamline raters so that there is no degradation in rater quality. I do not recall an instant of where this power was detrimental
[18:51] <@Circe> Positive or negative, it doesn't matter.
[18:51] <+MoGlin> If it doesn't have negative outcomes, why should it matter?
[18:51] <+MoGlin> If there was some precedent, some instance of some forum member unhappy with the system
[18:52] <+MoGlin> I would agree the system would have to be changed to what it is today.
[18:52] <@Circe> I'm a forum member unhappy with the system, MoGlin.
[18:52] <@Circe> The difference is that I'm also the one who gets to say "Change it."
[18:53] <+MoGlin> why does it bother you so? I feel like the only reason standards are the way they are now is because you are unhappy with the system, without it directly effecting anyone else >.<
03[18:54] * MoGlin is now known as dev|Lunch
03[18:54] * dev|Lunch is now known as dev|dinner
[18:54] <&Ev|rest> I can give you a very good example for how it has affected others
[18:54] <@Circe> Go ahead, Ev.
[18:54] <&Ev|rest> this was before you came back, Dev, but Trans' application
[18:54] <&Ev|rest> he was very upset at how he was treated
[18:55] <&Ev|rest> I saw no meanness out of any of the raters, but he certainly did not like the system
[18:55] <+dev|dinner> very well, your honor, I have no further argument.
[18:55] <&Ev|rest> which is that members were telling him "you're not good enough"
[18:56] <+dev|dinner> I wasn't aware of that. But I also realize that anymore arguing will be hopeless :/ I just hope you might change your mind in the future, Circe.
[18:56] <@Circe> Enjoy your dinner, MoGlin.
[18:56] <+dev|dinner> Thanks for coming over, Circe.
[18:56] <+Ebil> XD
[18:56] <+Deimius> thanks Circe
[18:56] <@Circe> Thanks for having me. If you have any questions or want to discuss this further, let me know.
03[18:56] * @Circe (circeae@circular.sorceress.your.doom) has left #WonderEmporium
[18:57] <@Fethend2> Well. that was interesting
[18:58] <%Gohan> I was not here at the time, but I read the logs. I may be wrong, but did not Trans agree ti take the test and wasn't he the one that started acting up and cussing at raters through query afterwards for wasting his time?
[18:58] <+Devourer|AFK> [23:55:25] <&Ev|rest> which is that members were telling him "you're not good enough"<---Wasnt it because ve.z took too long to ask him questions? :/
[18:58] <@Fethend2> I think what he meant is that he was denied for his attitude not being good enough
01[18:58] <&vez|nothere> I told him I was busy, and asked if he'd wait until another day to take the test. He wanted to do it then and there
01[18:58] <&vez|nothere> And yes, TG.
[18:59] <%Gohan> How did you tell him that you denied him?
[18:59] <+Ebil> I remember that
[18:59] <+Ebil> I think it was in December
[18:59] <+Ebil> I even have logs
[18:59] <+Devourer|AFK> It was
[18:59] <+Ebil> I'm IN the topic logs
[18:59] <+Devourer|AFK> And the longs are on the topic :P
[19:00] <+Devourer|AFK> *logs, even
[19:00] <+Ebil> Whast longs?
[19:00] <+Ebil> I WANT LONGS!
[19:00] <+ssj4_Vivi> So wait...who approves/denies potential raters to the center?
[19:00] <+Devourer|AFK> D:<
[19:00] <+Devourer|AFK> Cant anyone typo around here anymore?
[19:00] <+Ebil> NOES
[19:00] <&Ev|rest> from what I saw, he got very frustrated when he was told "this is what you're doing wrong"
02[19:00] <&Ev|rest> vez?  would you agree with that?
[19:00] <@Fethend2> Honestly, I think that Trans actually answered the questions well. His answers seemed a lot less informal than mine anyway, and he appeared to stumble over himself less.
[19:01] <+ssj4_Vivi> Do you have an approximate time on him expressing that Ev? I don't see it reading over the logs, although I'm probably just missing something.
[19:02] <%Gohan> His frustration seems to stem from his own mistakes in rating. Yes, he was unhappy that he did not make it and for being told that he did not make it, but it was entirly his fault that he did not turn that denial into something constructive
01[19:02] <&vez|nothere> AS far as I could tell at the time, he was getting frustrated at the test taking a while, something I had previously warned him about
[19:02] <+Strong_Bad> what is this?
03[19:02] * ShadowGoof (Goofy@GoofyNation.Org) has joined #WonderEmporium
[19:02] <%Gohan> We tell him he made mistakes so that he could fix them next time. At least, that's what I use to do
03[19:02] * Ev|rest sets mode: +o ShadowGoof
[19:02] <&Ev|rest> I don't remember, Vivi, honestly
[19:03] <+ssj4_Vivi> Ah, alright
01[19:03] <&vez|nothere> I would have been happy with him getting in... I just really disliked his attitude. Once he started cussing at me...
[19:03] <@ShadowGoof> Starting today any and all potential new raters will be run by me before any are hired or denied.
01[19:03] <&vez|nothere> okay, Goof
[19:03] <+Ebil> Goofy :o
[19:03] <+Devourer|AFK> :o
[19:03] <@Fethend2> Well, I'm glad I'm two days ahead then >_>
[19:03] <+ssj4_Vivi> Not interested enough in finding out to re-read those logs a third time so I'll take your word for it then XD
[19:03] <@Fethend2> Close shave.
[19:03] <+Ebil> XD
[19:05] <@ShadowGoof> And now I have said that I shall go. If you have questions PM me.
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