"What gun should I buy?" start here post

Lots of new folks here, glad to see you all and wish you good luck on your journey.

Before we begin, I would like to suggest a few things you can do for free or very little: find a park, gym, or destination near you to get some running in. If you can do this every day, great, if not whenever you have the opportunity to. Get emergency medical training, the Red Cross provides these in many countries, [here's a list](https://www.globalfirstaidcentre.org/red-cross-red-crescent-training-directory/char/A/). Then find a firearms safety instructor with good reviews and take their class.

If you don't know what guns to buy, here are some suggestions that *should* be reliable picks, organized by use-case and budget. I'll give one or two suggestions, then more rationale, explanation, and further options below that for each section. If you're someone that knows better than me and see some error I've made, definitely let me know and I'll update this.

***Redfuddin':***

I decided to put this first for hopefully obvious reasons. Redfudd guns are Soviet, Chinese, Yugoslav, or other such AES milsurp or reproduction firearms, like the Makarov, AKM/AK-74/M77, SKS, et cetera. It's generally not a good idea to start with these if you don't live in a country where they are dirt cheap and the ammunition is made in volume locally. Twentieth century manufacturing was significantly less refined and age doesn't help much with structural integrity nor with keeping rifling in good shape, and modern tactical use demands features these guns don't have, like optics mounting. Plus, pistols of the time require much more training and caution than modern ones in order to handle safely due to missing features such as trigger-mounted safeties.

You *can* and if you want one *should* buy redfudd guns, don't let me completely stop you, but you *should not* buy one as your first and only firearm. Get it later on as a range toy or spare.

***Concealed carry:***

Unfortunately, it's hard to fit a pistol into a budget much lower than $250, which for people who don't have a stable income to save up to, or for people who do have one but live paycheck-to-paycheck (it's good to keep in mind that 60% of Americans are living P2P, 75% of younger generations), makes pistols a fairly hard thing to get into. I would know, I'm in this situation right now. Checking Gunbroker, there *are* a decent amount of handguns listed for less than $100 (factor in at minimum 100 rounds of ammunition when calculating what gun you can afford to buy), but most of them are revolvers in .22 LR and pistols in .32 ACP, neither of which are ideal (though if that's all you can manage, both punch holes better than daydreams and both have killed many times. Being poor is expensive, man, I know that first-hand). You *used* to be able to get police trade-in pistols for closer to $150 only a few months ago, but obviously demand has gone up so they're $180 at the low end now.

If you have access to a public park or gym or your neighborhood doesn't consider such activities suspicious, do regular runs or jogs. You need as much cardio as you can get, then arm strength is secondary but still good to have. Some places have a duty to retreat and this becomes much easier the more stamina you have, and obviously run, don't walk to an injured comrade who needs your help.

You can find good deals on Gunbroker, cross reference that with [gun.deals](http://gun.deals) to make sure you're getting the best price though before you commit. Additionally, keep in mind FFL transfer fees, usually they're in the range of $20 to $50, though many places will drop the price significantly per item if you have multiple transfers in one purchase.

**If you have $300 or less in your pocket:** Medical supplies (both a first-aid kit and a trauma kit if you can afford them) and training to use them.

*Further thoughts:* You *could* get a police trade-in S&W SD9/SD40 or Hi-Point and a few magazines' worth of ammunition, but it might be a good idea instead to get a high-quality first aid kit (the American Red Cross's Deluxe Family First Aid Kit is $50), survival essentials like a good sealing water container, a trauma kit in a separate bag (helps to prevent having one large bag that you have to rummage through to find what you need), a good backpack or messenger bag to keep both smaller bags in or a belt or chest rig (I used to have a messenger bag that I think was originally a laptop bag back when 17 inch laptops were the thing to have and wish I knew where it was now), and attend first aid and stop the bleed classes run by the American Red Cross, stop the bleed courses are free but first aid courses are paid, but they're still very much worth the price to save lives.

Once you've got training and kit, If anyone in your neighborhood is also interested in community defense, join them as a medic, they need that and you may be able to get range time in using their guns in order to still be able to train without as much financial investment. This option becomes even more viable if you can amass a group of people who want to form a team.

If you're going this route, pause here and watch [this video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mvGCmexsG0M) by Black Flag Civilian.

**If you have $350 or more:** Smith & Wesson SD9- or -40VE, SAR B6-C on sale, or pocket pistol from reputable manufacturer in either .380 ACP or 9mm.

*Further thoughts:* Try to find a slightly older pistol, anything from this century (so 2001 or newer), ideally striker-fired polymer chambered in 9mm. That's not always available for $200 or less, so secondarily some options include .380 ACP and .40 S&W, neither are *nearly* as cheap as 9mm per round (9mm is \~18 cpr for steel case ammo which can cause issues or about 21 to 24 cpr for brass case, .40 S&W is \~24 cpr, .380 ACP is \~28 cpr, that adds up in quantities of 1,000) but they're still much more available than calibers like .32 ACP (\~32 cpr) and much more reliable than rimfire rounds like .22 LR (\~5 cpr but I would only recommend these for revolvers and bolt actions). Police trade-ins are usually going to be your cheapest source of pistols because the department doesn't need to make their money back on them, they get funding from many sources.

To anticipate a concern, yes, .380 ACP *is* demonstrably perfectly lethal, it gets lots of use in countries that do allow citizens to own guns if they're not chambered for cartridges used by the military. I'd say avoid Taurus, SCCY, and Kahr Arms if you're going the pocket pistol route, but if that's literally your only option it's not nothing, of those Taurus is probably the least problematic. The aforementioned SD9 or the older SW9 can be a good choice here, surplus ones can be had for well under $200 which leaves room for a holster and ammunition. During sales, the SAR B6-C can also be found for a decent amount below $200; as of writing this there's one retailer stocking it [on sale for $170](https://palmettostatearmory.com/sar-usa-b6c-9mm-pistol-blk-b6c9bl.html).

**If you have $500 or more:** Glock 19 or 25 when buying used, or clone like a BCA Grizzly or PSA Dagger if buying new. Another option: Beretta 84BB, though holster selection for those is less comprehensive.

*Further thoughts: T*his point is about when you should start looking at used Glocks or new clones. You *can* find Glocks for $200, but that's a very good deal and rare, so here is where you're more reliably going to see them, the $300 or so range. Bear Creek Arsenal's Grizzly is $295 new, the PSA Dagger Compact is $300 with sales occasionally bringing them down to $250-ish (there's one on sale right now for $260). I have heard concerns about QC with the latter and imagine the same deal with the former, but also plenty of happy customers, so it's up to you to make that call. This is also the price point you can find Beretta 84BBs, if you'd prefer a compact gun in .380 ACP which due to being blowback rather than locked breech can have better accuracy, or if you live in a jurisdiction that doesn't allow for military calibers.

As for what Glocks in specific if you choose to go name-brand: Glock 19 is the general answer for most Americans as a 9mm midsize, Glock 25 for most people in countries with cartridge restrictions, Glock 43X if you find a double stack magazine and midsize barrel uncomfortable in concealed carry, or Glock 26 for a subcompact if concealment is more important than capacity, which it might be; statistically speaking the average confrontation that ends in shooting is resolved in less than five rounds.

It's probably better to buy two or three magazines if the gun you buy only comes with one first, and *then* use the rest of the money on ammunition. I would probably put buying a holster off for later the next time you get enough money to have some left over, and use that time to train up to competency. You won't be able to do holster drills, but you can do malfunction clearing drills, reloading drills, accuracy training, rapid fire, dry fire especially, and other things like that. If you have $6-700 you can consider getting a holster upfront.

**And at the $750 tier and above** ($850 if you also get a holster), you can add in the first aid kit and bag and training from above.

Or, you could opt for a more pricey gun, such as the Beretta APX A1 Compact or Ruger RXM, but you do lose the ability to treat wounds, say, at a protest if you do go this route; I would probably start looking at those more toward the thousand dollar budget range in order to have both. As with all guns mentioned, check used listings and [gun.deals](http://gun.deals) before buying.

Now, to get back to the bit about steel case ammo and ammo in general, different ammo loads can have wildly different accuracies. This is critical on rifles where 200 meters is a medium to short length shot, but for pistols you shouldn't be shooting them much further than 25 yards. If you have the ability to, it may be wise to buy 20 rounds of a few varieties of ammunition and take two 10-shot groups in order to find both what ammo works well in your gun and how far the effective range of your gun is before rounds start missing your target, which is something you absolutely don't want if you ever have to fire in a direction where there are noncombatants alongside the person or thing you intend to shoot. Steel case can also leave more fouling in the gun that you have to clean more or risk corrosion, but cleaning your gun is significantly cheaper (all it costs is your labor and a bit of cleaning supplies) than buying more expensive ammunition when you're buying them in bulk over months or years.

Glocks are very mechanically simple which help them a lot in their reliability. Other handguns may have more moving parts than them, especially ones with lots of external controls.

***Home/community defense:***

My personal recommendation if you live in a place that allows you to buy an AR-15 is to buy a KP-15 lower receiver and mate it to a 16 or 20 inch upper receiver, and buy a full auto spec bolt-carrier group for it. If your location doesn't, either get a Kel-Tec SU16 or Mini-14 if your juristiction allows semi-auto firearms or a pistol caliber lever action rifle if not.

*Further thoughts:* A bit of housecleaning: pistol calibers do overpenetrate more than .223, because they (generally) have significantly more mass. As an example, a typical 9mm projectile weighs 147 grains and a .38 Special or .357 Magnum projectile, which is the same diameter as 9mm, can get up to 200 grains, whereas a typical .223 projectile weighs only 55, 62, or 77 grains. You should anticipate overpenetration already but if your gun is purely home defense, you shouldn't buy a pistol caliber carbine or rifle *specifically because* you're looking for less penetration; they can be worthwhile to look at in order to have a single ammo pool with a pistol and for putting a suppressor on if those are legal in your area as they not only dampen the sound to levels that damage hearing less but also route pressure that would go to your head away from it, but they aren't an easy out on overpenetration.

A PCC can be a good option, but they're pretty universally either more expensive than a carbine or rifle in an intermediate or full power cartridge (most likely either 5.56/.223 or .308), worse on some major quality like recoil to mitigate why you would want one, or both, so they're something to buy later on with the intent of putting a suppressor on it should you need to use one indoors.

***If your location allows it***, get an AR-15. You can get used cheap M4-clone-type ARs and the like for $250 or less (sometimes $150 if you can hunt for deals), or new PSAs for about $400, I'd suggest actually getting the upper and lower separately if you're doing that because of an extra tax on full guns that aren't on gun parts bought in separate purchases.

I'd personally recommend getting a KP-15 lower (usually $160 for one that already has all of the parts installed, $100 without the parts plus about $40 to buy them separately if you're willing to learn AR assembly) and a \~$200 upper (you can probably go [as low as $150](https://palmettostatearmory.com/psa-16-5-56-nato-1-7-m4-nitride-classic-wild-cat-gray-upper-no-bcg-ch.html) and be relatively safe). Still fairly affordable for what it is and not made out of cardboard. A lot of the time cheap uppers will not come with a bolt carrier group or charging handle, for most people the charging handle doesn't matter so get whatever but for the BCG make sure you get one that is called "full auto profile", I'll get to that in a bit.

I would recommend buying an optic and magazines as your next purchase. PSA [has a deal](https://palmettostatearmory.com/vortex-sparc-ar-2-moa-red-dot-10-magpul-30rd-pmags.html) right now (possibly expired if you're reading this in the future, for reference: $150 vs. the usual $193) on an optic and ten magazines, it's not an amazing optic but it isn't total garbage to start off with, so I'd go for it even if just for the PMAGs.

As a note, check the laws where you live as some places have magazine restrictions of usually 15 or 10 rounds or less per magazine, in the US 14 states and DC have magazine restrictions and it's not improbable you live in one if you live in the US. These are 30, so aren't legal everywhere, you should look up whether your jurisdiction has a magazine capacity restriction or not before importing illegal magazines into it. If you don't know which brand of magazine to buy, the manufacturer's and Magpul's are generally your safest bets.

Red dots are the usually preferred option for anything not intended for long range, but some with astigmatisms may find they hinder more than help, so etched glass prism sights and LPVOs are additional options, though any magnification will prevent you from using them the same way for very fast target acquisition. Iron sights are at this point not really that useful on long arms, given how good red dots have become. Primary Arms, Holosun, Sig, and Vortex are decent lower-cost options for optics.

With those two taken care of, get a sling and flashlight to mount on it.

Now that all the essentials are taken care of, train with it regularly for a few months. Once you feel you're at a point where you're confident you can control the gun and aren't flagging the range, you can consider a forced-reset trigger. This increases the rate you can pull the trigger and fire your gun significantly, allowing you to put much more lead downrange in a very short time, in case you ever have use for chewing holes through an armored burglar's plates. However, this isn't necessarily essential; current U.S. military practice prefers accurate semi-auto fire across long ranges over even burst fire, let alone automatic fire. You don't always have that option though, so better to have it and not need it than need it and not have it. Once you're trained enough to be safe with it, of course. This is why I suggest getting a full auto BCG, in case you decide to take advantage of this in the future.

***Now, if your location doesn't***, you have a few choices to make. A Mini-14 offers *most* of the same end result as an AR-15, and most places that ban AR-15s allow them. It has worse ergonomics and costs the equivalent of multiple AR-15s, but it still shoots 5.56 at the same velocities and has 30 round magazines if those are legal where you are.

The SKS wouldn't be my first pick if possible (though there are situations it can be, those are somewhat niche; you'd have to determine that for yourself). While it's somewhat cheap to buy still, it's not all that cheap to buy ammunition for (most places don't stock 7.62x39 and those that do stock it at \~50cpr) and doesn't easily accept optics.

Kel-Tec's SU16 rifle may also be an option. Kel-Tec has less of a reputation for quality than Ruger does, but they're still a reputable manufacturer that usually puts out stuff that's at least average and cheap; the SU16 is $600 or so compared to the Mini-14's $1,200, plus takes standard AR-15 magazines which the Mini-14 doesn't. Sig's MCX Regulator is pricey (though in the same ballpark as the Mini-14) but another option for some places.

***Some places, semi-auto fire in general is either banned or on the chopping block***. For those places, CZ's 600+ Trail accepts AR-15 magazines which makes availability and price very reasonable. If it's all semi-auto fire including handguns another option might be a lever-action rifle and revolver in a magnum caliber if you want to have a unified ammo pool (suppressed .44 magnum out of a lever action rifle can be surprisingly quiet), or if you don't I've heard mixed opinions on Henry but they do have the Lever Action Supreme in .223 which also uses AR-15 magazines.

Once again it's kind of expensive to be poor here in a way; because of how ubiquitous AR-15s are, everything else is much more expensive than them and there's really not much one can do about that besides buying used. Wish I had a better answer for you. It should be stated that in these states, you *will* have less firepower than any possible armed and armored burglar that doesn't care about the law; what you do about that is your business but in any case being armed is still better than not being armed even if you're outgunned.

***Shotguns:***

I've heard mixed to negative reviews of Turkish made shotguns, so if you wish to err on the safe side, maybe avoid those. On the very cheap end, Norinco pump-action shotguns (currently being imported under the brand name Blue Line Solutions, see the BL-18) are about $130 and Mossberg's budget pump-action is $270. Semi-autos are going to cost significantly more, Stoeger's M3500 for example is a fairly cheap example of a semi-auto shotgun and costs $700.

*Further thoughts:* Yeah, these get a special category all on their own because they really serve multiple functions and are good for utility, I would argue it should be one of the three guns everyone that has the means to buys, and if you absolutely can't afford the $500 AR build suggested above, is a perfectly good, viable option to choose in its place.

A lot of people have been buying them for home defense. They can be useful in this role, but they can overpenetrate objects and walls (albiet less so than pistol calibers) while less reliably penetrating even soft body armor like Kevlar. It's not an optimal choice, but there are certainly worse options. Its versatility however does make up for it, as we're about to get to.

Now, to preface, I feel I should put a legal disclaimer here: drones are legally aircraft in the US, so shooting one down likely constitutes a federal crime. This is just if the alternative is getting blown up. Bird and drone hunts are a good use of shotguns. You'd want birdshot for these purposes, and if the flying thing is expected to fight back a semi-automatic shotgun is ideal if at all possible. You do need good aim still, the spread will not automatically save you, but it is an important thing to have.

Because of the smoothbore barrel and broad caliber, you can pick and choose ammunition from a wide pool of different forms, including many utility loads that aren't intended to kill but accomplish some task instead, which is the main and best reason to get a shotgun. Not only can you shoot buckshot and birdshot and slugs which may help for cheap lockpicking or punching a hole in a car radiator, but you can also shoot out flares for signalling or distress, which alongside birdshot for hunting fowl makes the shotgun an excellent survival tool that you should have on you any time you anticipate needing to camp out for an extended period of time.

If you intend on using your shotgun against drones, buy a shotgun with a 28 inch barrel, and an aftermarket extended magazine. Use shells with lead #7.5 birdshot. Full choke preferred, modified choke better than cylinder bore. Semi auto preferred, then double barrel, then pump action, you want as quick a followup shot as you can get. If you don't want to do bird hunting to practice the skill, go clay pigeon shooting, ideally weekly.

There's also less-lethal crowd control options like beanbag rounds, but I want you to really take in this next sentence: ***beanbag rounds are technically less-lethal, but you should never aim for the face, and should never use them against a target up-close, because they can and will still cause significant tissue damage if aimed at sensitive areas or not given time to decelerate. Beanbag rounds have been known to blind and kill in many cases where they have been used, and should not be taken lightly in the mistaken belief that they are "non-lethal".*** It should be noted non-typical ammunition may not cycle properly in a semi-auto shotgun.

***Long range shooting:***

Don't sleep on .223 as a long range round. The M16A4 with a 4x prism sight and Mk. 262 ammunition during the war in Iraq got accuracy results good enough for an internal investigation in the conduct of the soldiers using it for extremity shots at 500 yards, with center mass at 600-700 yards. Buying or building a good quality, accuracy-focused 20 inch upper for your KP-15 and a quality optic to mount on it is probably your best bet for a budget long-range firearm if you have a fighting rifle already, or if semi-auto is a non-negotiable.

*Further thoughts:* If you go this route, you may want to use 20 round magazines rather than 30 (if your area doesn't limit you to 10 or 15) in order to more comfortably lie prone or use a bipod with your rifle. Watch [this video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mRarcrJp3B0) (also by Black Flag Civilian) to get the basic concept down and understand the rationale behind each part so you can build one to your purposes and budget.

However, most people for long range prefer either full-size (e.g. .308) or magnum rifle rounds, especially if intending to hunt big game. Check your local laws because some places have minimum hunting caliber restrictions, usually to .30 caliber and above. Bolt action long range guns certainly have the advantage of being cheaper for a certain accuracy level, of course.

There are semi-automatic .308 ARs, in fact that's how the platform got its start, but there is a major rift in the platform between three incompatible variations of it: original ArmaLite, modern ArmaLite, and DPMS pattern. You have to ensure any parts you buy are compatible with your rifle. DPMS is the most common variant but modern ArmaLite is still around. Original ArmaLite is very rare and mostly collectors' items but there are a few still floating around in Africa, especially Sudan which ordered them in the 1950s.

As an aside, it's not exactly long-range but a bolt action .22 or .22 WMR can be useful to have for small animal hunting or pest control or plinking. It's not the most pressing gun, but if those are use cases that are important to you it's something to think about. Though don't underestimate the .22 bolt action rifle, it's taken down record grizzly bears in the past. Plus, you can find them for very little money; the Keystone Crickett rifle can be found for [only $140](https://www.basspro.com/p/keystone-sporting-arms-crickett-single-shot-rimfire-rifle), with the Rossi RB22 coming in [$50 more](https://www.basspro.com/p/rossi-rb22-22-lr-bolt-action-rifle) than that, both of which can acclimatize the shooter to smooth bolt action operation.

This section would have been longer but this is probably the area I'm worst read on.

***Special section: can't buy a modern firearm for one reason or another***

Focus on being a medical carrier, as in the case of the $300 or less budget. However, if you are safe to own a gun, buy a 5.5 inch Remington 1858 clone and second cylinder, low-smoke powder, slightly oversized projectiles, and if possible replace the cap pegs with slixshots as they help the caps stay on better. Watch [this video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TCYaiRmcYVI) for a further crash course on the considerations of going this route.

*Further thoughts:* This is why I own an 1851 Navy revolver; when I was 18 I wanted a firearm and lived in a place that had banned long arms for anyone under 21. If you're in this situation, a percussion cap revolver is your main bet. I would personally recommend you use a clone of a Remington 1858 because reloads are the fastest on those. Statistically speaking, you won't need reloads for defensive gun use, but it makes training with it less of a hassle. However, anything will do. A nice feature of my 1851 is that it has notches between the cylinders that retain the hammer so you can rest it between the cylinder chambers.

You might be able to find a longarm manufactured before 1898 that uses smokeless powder cartridges, e.g. Winchester 1897, but it would be something you'd have to hunt for to find one in good enough condition to bet your life on. A double-barrel shotgun might be something to consider if you'd rather take power over capacity. Revolver rifles do exist and you can use them, but you should hold them like a handgun and not like a rifle. Loading with slightly oversize projectiles does reduce the risk of chain fires nearly entirely but there's still a slight risk regardless so best not to have your hand out in front of the cylinder just in case.

Brass frame revolvers are generally much cheaper, for example with Pietta's 1858s the brass frame versions are generally under $300 while the steel frame ones are over $400, but for that extra money you do get more structural stability as brass can warp when loaded hot; for target practice with brass frames, load to 15 or 20 grains of powder. I would probably go for the 5.5 inch one as it is marginally less unwieldy.

Some places don't allow shipping black powder firearms, check your local laws.

Obviously, you should understand that a court will view a defensive shooting with a percussion cap revolver no different than one with a Glock, so be cautious with this, and only do so if you aren't putting yourself in legal danger by carrying. While concealed carrying a revolver like this is technically possible, all holsters for them are designed for open carry, so if you're not legally allowed to have a gun and you have one of these on you, it's likely very obvious.

Now, if you know you're unsafe with a gun of any kind (e.g. suicidal ideation), take the advice I gave earlier: eschew it and instead assemble a well-stocked medic bag with provisions for bullet wounds and do regular first aid and stop the bleed training, and attach yourself to someone with a gun. It's a win-win for them and for you. I mean, you should be doing this if you can no matter what gun you buy, but especially if you don't buy one. Another thing you can do is be involved in mutual aid groups.

Whatever gun you buy if you buy one, make sure to find a day of the week that you have the least amount of responsibilities on and designate that your training day, and make sure to train a different skill every time. Spaced repetition helps significantly with skill acquisition.

Good luck and have fun training. Feel free to ask questions here if you're unsure about something and either I or someone else will come by and answer.