Transcript of Meet Adafruit Founder Limor Fried: Open Source

Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LpWugMMEeeY

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hi this is your host of new partying
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your head that read have some it and
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today we have it is one of my favorite
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know personally more Fred you started
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other food I am user myself good I make
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a lot of things during Halloween I
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predicted a lot of things on a fully
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open source in a printer and then I use
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you know all the LEDs and all those you
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know adrenal based things there too so
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it's really great to sit down and talk
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to you so there is like professional and
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personal there to play you know pleasure
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this is a kind of different experience
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from this is like your most fun podcast
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exactly so so first of all I like to
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know how and then you started this so I
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actually went to MIT which is not too
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far from here now we're in Boston right
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now if people weren't aware at the Red
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Hat summit and I went to school and I
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studied electrical engineering in
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computer science which means I did a lot
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of like math and Fourier transforms and
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like MATLAB and stuff and that was
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really cool but what I really like to do
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is build stuff like your electrical jr.
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you want actually build stuff just like
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when you study software engineer you
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learn design patterns or eventually look
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I want to write a game so I would
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instead of working on the homework and
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thesis stuff I was supposed to be doing
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I would design projects in my dorm room
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so I made an mp3 player that's actually
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before the iPod so like you could build
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your own mp3 player with just chips or
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you could build like a GPS tracker or I
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built like light toys for Burning Man
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and we'd publish these projects on my
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website I had like a website at the
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Media Lab and it publishes projects and
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all of the source code that goes with
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them so this was kind of open source
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hardware but at the time like nobody
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really it wasn't a thing yet it was like
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oh no you just publish everything and
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you give it all away so I was doing that
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publishing the CAD files the schematics
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the firmware which was I can pick
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assembly and just sharing how I would
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build an mp3 player and then I get
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people from around the world because
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there was blogs posting this stuff and
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they'd say hey I really want to build
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this too but you know unlike software
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you can't just type and make like config
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you actually have to like buy all these
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little parts and
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with hardware they don't all come from
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one place so you'd order the PCB from
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one place and you'd order resistors from
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another place you order this special mp3
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chip from a third place
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so actually Canada gets very complicated
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very fast to like get all these
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components so if people would email me
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and say hey can you sell me a kit parts
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basically everything together in like a
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little tar ball but it's hardware and
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you get in a package then you could put
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it together and so it can't even want to
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do that at all but then eventually i
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relent in so i started selling a couple
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kits you know what every week i would
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ship out a couple kids from the local
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post office and then i just kind of
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started doing that as my job and so that
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was like 13 years ago and now we have
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like 4,000 products in the Adafruit shop
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from kits to hardware to DIY Linux
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computers kind of everything and that
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people can use to build what I think are
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really cool projects and it has a wall
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you know in a I I think one or two years
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ago when on Nintendo Street Zelda game
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came out and well have you you know team
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member they were three pending the whole
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sword yeah I also actually printed it's
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in my office yeah with all those pixel
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new pixel lights so where you started
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verses various now how do you kind of
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keep the excitement going on because
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it's all about basic electronics if you
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look at it it's really still the same
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core electronics but then what we're
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doing is we're trying to reach more
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people exactly because when I started
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that kits were very like you to build
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the wheel you had to be electrical
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engineer you had to pick programmer or a
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parallel port these were very expertise
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based kids movie that like 300 parts in
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them and you could reach a certain
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subset of the population but a lot of
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weren't beginners and there are a lot of
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people who are not being served by this
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they wanted to do electronics didn't
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understand how to get there
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especially the Zelda swords a really
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good example because we're doing a lot
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more cosplay projects there's a lot of
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kids in adults who love cosplay I mean
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like what don't you love about cosplay
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everybody loves video games you know you
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want your own master sword or like
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ancient sword from Zelda and you want to
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become these characters that you spend
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you know 40 50 hours with you can dress
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up as them but a lot of games now they
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have lights or robotics and so us being
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able
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to take electronics and show people hey
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you do cosplay so you're sewing and your
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crafting you're doing foam you're
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already very skilled with working with
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your hands let's show you how
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electronics can be just as easy to work
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with as EVA foam you know get get these
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parts maybe you clip them together use
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alligator clips maybe you do a little
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bit of soldering if you're a more
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advanced and then 3d printing as you
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said and you end up having this like
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huge pot where you get to all these
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technologies together you mix them up
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and you can build almost everything so
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cosplay is an excellent example of that
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I mean cosplay is more a cultural thing
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but what is your mission ok this was
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something you started personally you
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will lose an electron is it that not to
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kind of not educate but make people
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aware of because like we live in a world
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of iPad in order kids swipe and that is
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their Nexus of technology which is not
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technology is a consumption device you
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don't even know how to fix your eyes
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you're like you're like this is this
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glass slab I mean it's beautiful its
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consumption you know it doesn't teach
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you or it doesn't give you so what is
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your actual mission you know have you
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ever thought about it or that's when we
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find if I said no so I think the mission
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is to teach people to share technology
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and show people how much fun and
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exciting and creative it can be you know
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I read a lot of code but at the end
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there's something really beautiful and
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creative and and I think it's fun to see
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people sharing the technology one of
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things I love about hardware software
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that has us to extent but hardware even
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more so you can pick it up and actually
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show somebody you can share it with
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people you can take it out and you can
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wear it you know at Burning Man or at a
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cosplay convention but also helps people
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so for example in the last year -
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actually one of the things that we've
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done a lot more of is assistive
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technology so assistive technology
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people who don't know what it's called a
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t4 short it's there's people who you
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know maybe they need help you know
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opening cabinets or they need voice
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control because they can't use buttons
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as easily so they just have
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technological needs that as buttons get
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smaller as iPads become more you know
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touch base maybe they don't have that
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ability to control the technology and so
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assistive tech kind of bridges that
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together so maybe the buttons are really
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large
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you saw this with Microsoft ex-ac their
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accessibility controller how to get
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people to be able to play video games
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without having to hold these extremely
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delicate controllers so eighty and
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open-source Hardware go together really
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well because everybody who needs
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assistive technology usually needs a
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very specific type of eighty everybody
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needs a little bit different how hard
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they can press the button or the range
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of motion or how many buttons they can
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press or you know what kind of voice
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control they can do so if you have
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closed source technology you're stuck
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it's either off the shelf and you have
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to figure out how to make it work for
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you or you have to hire somebody to
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custom build you the technology which is
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usually outside the range of most people
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a lot of people with 18 they don't need
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18 they don't have huge budgets to get
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this technology built sofas which
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hardware is this perfect middle ground
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it it allows you to customize anybody
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can do it and it's open so you can keep
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hacking and adjusting it so as people
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needs change you can tweak the code and
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so we're actually seeing a lot of 80
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users and people building 480 using
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open-source hardware because again it
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it's not something we originally
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designed it for but it fits so well I
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will come back to the mission question
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you know one thing you mentioned was an
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open-source people can you know hack you
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know they can improve but how it
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benefits you also because when people
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change your code you know they it's open
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source so they may also put a patch up
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there
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so do you does it work you know and
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other way around that you also say hey I
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did not even think about you know this
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use case and they are doing it
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absolutely yeah we have a weekly show
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called ask engineer so every Wednesday
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just gonna show i have a show and the
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show yeah so you watch it so every
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Wednesday at 7:30 p.m. we have people
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from we're on the world show up and
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they're not just customers it's open to
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everybody and what's interesting is
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people come by and they show off what
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they're building
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whether it's 3d printed or coded or
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hardware or whatever or like they're
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making electron microscopes and what
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they're doing you know I I can't be all
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people and I want to be able people but
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everybody has their own community in
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their own needs and so they'll come and
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they'll show here's what my need my
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group my community my school
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my solar car club what we're building
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and how we're using this technology and
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it's kind of fascinating because you're
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like I wouldn't have thought this is
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what people would be using this for and
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I and I think that's it's good because I
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think engineers need to be exposed to a
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lot of use cases because engineers often
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we think like well I'm going to do it
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this way because this is the right way
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because in my mind I have this model but
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if your model isn't large and
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encompassing it's really easy to like
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trap yourself like you make an
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engineering decision and then you end up
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locking out a group of people and this
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happens all the time and engineering and
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so one of the neat things about having
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this weekly shows is that I get to see
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what people need and so after they show
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off their project you know I'll ask them
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like well what was the thing that was
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most challenging for you and they'll say
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oh you know for example before we had
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addressable neopixels people would wire
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up LEDs individually and I remember
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people would say like it's really hard
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to solder you know sounds really need to
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not have them break and so as soon as I
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saw like oh there's these addressable
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LEDs that solves this problem and then
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you come you know you mix those two
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things together and then you introduce
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the technology to the people and they're
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like oh yes this this hell's my problem
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and now I can continue on with the
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projects that I wanted to build people
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don't they want to make they just don't
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know how to get the tools and the
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technology to do that yeah once I have
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found adjustable LEDs I don't because I
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used to make you know Christmas lights
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on Halloween yeah the different kind of
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LEDs and now you know they have made my
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life so easy I used to be like a total
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nightmare and like one wire would break
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in the whole thing right and you're just
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kind of like frustrating you're like I'm
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not having fun now it's you know some
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people get angry or like it's too easy
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but it's actually great because it means
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you can take a lot more time like I said
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I was spending four hours in doing that
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I can just take it and build something
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yeah I know you can like take okay now
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I'm in like the you know I make
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different light shows I want to make it
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reactive and want to talk to the
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internet and use cheer lights so it's
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neat because you get to do more and then
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you have more fun sharing it because
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you're not like frustrated you can take
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it to the next level of what you're okay
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to do we can lose and I'll go back to
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the mission question again you talked
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about two things no one was in order to
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tell people about electronics and what
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one was you know
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accessibility you know yeah so so are
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you are you working with either any
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organization like new mentioned Xbox
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controller or you know it's just you
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know you are running your own projector
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you work at some companies where you
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provide them with either models or
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prototypes or I just want to understand
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your engagement with the companies or
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you just there's a question we do work
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with some companies so for example
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actually recently Nvidia released the
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Jetson Nano which is this you know edge
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computing AI and machine learning board
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and they actually came to us they said
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we want people to be able to build
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hardware and robots but the problem is
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that there's no like interface like
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literally there's no software interface
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to let people connect to all this
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hardware and you've been doing this for
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so long what's the easiest way for us to
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do this and so we weren't under NDA for
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a couple months and now of course it's
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all public which is great it's part of
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the deal it's like hey well we'll do
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something in private but eventually it
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has to be open source and then we work
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together and I kind of told them here's
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the the Python interface here's how to
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write it and then it's not that hard but
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then once you do this you know you're
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you're part of this API ecosystem of
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like circuit Python libraries just like
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very arcane but the end end result is
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that thousands of people who are getting
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these boards can now use the hundreds of
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libraries that have already been written
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instead of like constantly recreating
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all this metal right which is another
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thing that we want to avoid when we do
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work with companies it's usually saying
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hey let's not come up with something new
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let's use something that exists so you
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don't end up alienating these
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communities because it's it's
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challenging you know there's always
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something newer and funner and more
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glossy but we want to make sure people
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can actually build stuff - right and now
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education part do you also work with
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because this is a very good project for
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schools you know I mean my son has
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little bits kid he builds older so do
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you also work with the schools too so
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that you know instead of iPads people
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have access to actual technology yeah
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it's a good question so in in the u.s.
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the school system is very split apart
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you know every district is a little bit
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different and we end up not working
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directly with school districts we end up
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working a lot with teachers or for
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example with Microsoft we worked with
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them for a couple years now with make
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code which is there
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drop programming system so after a
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little bit's this is a really good like
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next step so maybe your kid can do that
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but it's you know browser-based
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programming it's block based it's again
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completely open-source everything is
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published on github you really want to
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run the service yourself go ahead I
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don't recommend it but you can we had a
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lot of teachers come to us and they'd
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say you know we want to teach Hardware
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physical computing in the classroom
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because they often have laptops but you
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know I'm a coder maybe you're a coder
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it gets a little boring after a while
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you're like I'm typing and I'm typing
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and you're typing and like some squares
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appear on the screen but like it's not I
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don't find it as fulfilling they're one
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of those bring physical computing it's
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you can do sensing and you know
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agricultural stuff or you want to do
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physics projects or chemistry projects
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with electronics and so they come to us
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and they say we want to do this but
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here's a deal it has to be twenty bucks
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a student because you know they just
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they can't afford anything more it has
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to be durable $20.00 a student and it
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has to do everything and they can't
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solder a lot of schools they don't
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actually have access to soldering tools
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whether they can't afford it or because
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the kids are too young and it's unsafe
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so we design like open source hardware
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called circuit playground Express and
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this has all the sensors and LEDs in it
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so it's got all these cute LEDs you can
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see it's got a speaker and some buttons
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and you can charge it over battery and
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you can plug into USB and you know we
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made sure it works with like Chromebooks
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and you know works under Linux do if you
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want using with Arch Linux if you so
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choose
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and of course Windows and Mac and
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everybody and what's really neat is when
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you plug it in it shows up as a disk
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drive which is kind of this like weird
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old hack because a lot of computers you
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can't install drivers on especially in
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schools you can't install software
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drivers which is a good idea but you end
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up it's a lot of hard work kids require
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that you know they need drivers or
15:11
special software so by having it show up
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as a disk drive which sounds like such a
15:15
not important decision but ends up being
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the most important session it means that
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any kid they can go to a library they
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can plug this in and they can start
15:22
coding the code lives work directly on
15:24
the microcontroller and then they can
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build interactive hardware and it's
15:29
designed to be really durable and you
15:31
can
15:31
with alligators and it's like you can't
15:33
really damage it and like end up going
15:35
through the wash and it survives so we
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end up we didn't get a lot of feedback
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from teachers and educational
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institutions and people who work in
15:42
doing workshops that they needed to be
15:44
super simple everything in in one place
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and it has to be programmable by any
15:49
computer and that you know some
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engineers don't like to be told what to
15:53
do but actually I love the restrictions
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because it meant I had to think how am I
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gonna make all these things work out and
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it also hit that budget right that's
16:02
what engineering is to me is like
16:04
getting it all working and so it's
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really the best time now it's never been
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better compared to when you and I went
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to school it's so much more fun now
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there's so much hardware and software
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and like even though the technology is
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getting less hackable like you can't
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really hack an iPad or or you know
16:22
Android tablet there's a huge ecosystem
16:25
of open-source hardware and hackable
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hardware that kids can build with so
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it's I'm actually pretty jealous yeah I
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remember in my and I was great but in
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India you know I would order my
16:36
registers from difference India all
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together you know from an electronics
16:38
shop and it will do I've got a packet of
16:40
all the registers because you need
16:42
everything you know and that board would
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be there and if we're just we're just
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fine and I started that too but it's
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it's so much time if the kids end up
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like getting bored I feel like if you
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can't get something happening within
16:54
five to ten minutes that's true you know
16:57
youyou've they're just like oh this is
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too hard for me and they get
17:00
disappointed seventy at all and that
17:01
happen if he cannot figure it out you
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know I mean little bits also he were
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like struggling and he would and then I
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got him one more kid where he had to
17:08
build I got him the Nintendo's you know
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the VR kit he has to build everything I
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like the Archaea so I like you know
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physical twice where you can touch you
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can feel I also got him a 3d printing
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pen but a little fun yeah I mean I also
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try different things but I think having
17:23
that immediate reaction is key if you
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want to get more there's always you know
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there's always like that kid who has
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been programming since they were like 12
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right there's always that kid and and
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I'm not worried about that kid that
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kid's gonna be fine they can really the
17:36
CTO of like the next you know Google or
17:39
Red Hat but what I want to do is get
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more kids who don't necessarily realize
17:43
that they
17:44
can become engineers or programmers and
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also you know as we're seeing no matter
17:49
what your industry let's if you want to
17:51
be a veterinarian you want to be a
17:52
cancer researcher you want to do space
17:54
technology all this stuff you have to
17:57
know engineering the after no software
17:59
nothing is untouched by software if you
18:02
want it you want to go and have a farm
18:05
you want to brew beer all these things
18:07
you software to manage yields to manage
18:10
environmental controls it's all
18:12
computer-based now so you have to have
18:14
familiarity with this technology even if
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you don't want to become a sysadmin
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right and the kind of word we are going
18:21
to live and we cannot go back to coal
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mining we have to find you know yeah new
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we'll go back come on only robots yeah
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yeah we're doing it yeah so we have to
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look for it the technology but the
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problem is most of time when people look
18:34
at money they look at Facebook and iPad
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and they don't look at these things so
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it's you know incredible you're doing
18:39
but how a sir they'll also know how you
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keep excitement but what is your long I
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mean you're having fun everybody who
18:47
using in order fruit they're having fun
18:49
but do you have a like long term goal
18:51
okay now a lot of machine learning kind
18:53
of things are coming in I was talking to
18:54
- the food computer program yesterday
18:57
she was talking about how they are using
18:59
all these are dinners board and
19:00
raspberry pies so do you want to take it
19:02
to the next level also beyond you know
19:04
or what is your goal for future you know
19:06
I think that we always want to be on the
19:09
edge of what technologies are coming in
19:12
so I don't think you know AI regime
19:14
learning is the end of you know I do see
19:16
you know we're working now on making a
19:18
little you know AI machine learning
19:20
driving robot kit like people hear about
19:23
self-driving cars you can actually make
19:24
a little self-driving car nowadays using
19:27
all open-source hardware and software
19:28
which is really neat right I mean you
19:31
can there's this new multi-billion
19:33
dollar companies doing it but you could
19:34
also have a classroom doing it and we're
19:37
always looking at what is the lace
19:39
technology and what is the coolest thing
19:40
we can build with it and I don't by
19:44
reading about square enix there's a
19:45
circus cop company that makes video
19:47
games like Final Fantasy and
19:49
and people always said like what is what
19:51
is your game what is it what are the
19:52
kind of games you make and they said we
19:53
always just make the best game you can
19:56
make with the technology available
19:58
it's the Super NES or the PlayStation 3
20:01
whatever the technology is available
20:02
we're gonna make the best game we can
20:05
with it and so I think Adafruit does
20:06
that too even though it's like yay
20:09
rainbows and kings and unicorns and like
20:11
cosplay it's fun the underlying
20:12
technology is incredibly intense and
20:14
complicated all right we're taking very
20:17
advanced electronics and sensors and
20:19
we're making them appear very simple but
20:21
you know the fact that like you know you
20:23
plug this in and under MIT code you drag
20:25
some blocks and you click download and
20:27
like it syncs together it's like wow
20:29
that's so elegant and clean and cute but
20:31
it's like underneath it's like there's
20:33
web us being like they were simulating
20:36
the first MV are fat blocks that like
20:38
the Chromebooks don't recognize them and
20:41
then you know that data is formatted in
20:43
a certain way and we have like
20:45
transpilers and like linker is happening
20:47
in JavaScript I mean it takes its
20:49
intense amount of Technology to make
20:51
this really beautiful experience right
20:53
and and hardware is harder than software
20:55
you know how do you keep up with new
20:57
innovation in this new electronics and
20:59
how do you source of material um well
21:02
there's a lot of companies that yes like
21:04
it's kind of like a thing like well how
21:05
do you know about the latest you know
21:07
JavaScript like framework it's like well
21:10
like everybody this knows about it well
21:11
it's like you know because you're in
21:12
this community right with an Hardware
21:14
community you know there are people who
21:16
share and talk we have customers who
21:18
email us and they say hey I saw this
21:19
really cool tech you know you should
21:21
integrate it and I'll look at it and
21:22
I'll see if it makes sense and I get a
21:23
lot of really good advice from them
21:25
sometimes will custom make stuff of
21:27
course but we also listen to you know
21:30
what companies are coming out with so we
21:32
subscribe to the mailing list so we go
21:34
to their websites or we check out blogs
21:37
of engineers who are working on the
21:39
cutting edge and so we look at that and
21:41
think the tough part is figuring out
21:43
like how does this combine right like
21:46
how do we mix this with the needs of
21:49
people for example Honeywell came up
21:52
with this really nice ported pressure
21:55
sensor for I don't know what it was for
21:57
some industry but I looked at that I
21:59
said oh you know what this would make a
22:00
really good sip-and-puff interface
22:03
sensor for people who use you know
22:05
breath controlled assistive tech it's
22:07
got a port on it and it's got like a
22:09
moisture scent guard so it's like oh
22:11
these other things
22:12
that the sensor has solves a problem
22:13
that I know somebody has presented to me
22:15
and so it's mostly just getting all this
22:18
information and then you just match you
22:21
just have to do this
22:22
matching of what people are saying they
22:25
need and what is coming out but another
22:28
piece is that you know the cost you you
22:30
know it's you you try to keep it in or
22:34
affordable also yeah I mean what use are
22:36
usually in all your technology mostly
22:38
very very expensive yeah so you know
22:41
that's a challenge it's like how do you
22:42
how do you find the technologies that
22:43
are also right hayfitz and sometimes I
22:45
look at things I'm like this is really
22:47
cool but I just know nobody's gonna be
22:48
able to afford it so I have to pass but
22:50
then you know sometimes a year or two
22:51
later okay that's how it comes down in
22:54
price you know it it we may not be a
22:56
large enough like the maker market may
22:58
not be large enough to push prices down
23:00
but we can do is we can you know follow
23:02
some big customer so like small e Inc
23:05
displays for example we're
23:07
extraordinaire expensive like five years
23:09
ago but then they became direct comment
23:11
in shelf displays look everyone knew
23:13
that they were gonna be used for shelf
23:14
displays but there just wasn't a huge
23:15
customer that came in right and and
23:17
basically bought hundreds and hundreds
23:19
of thousands of units that would help
23:20
lower the cost but I'm sure that did
23:22
happen and now the price went down and
23:24
now makers are able to you know access
23:26
the technology music without it being
23:28
like okay I only have one display and
23:30
hope it don't break it now they're like
23:31
a couple bucks apiece right awesome
23:33
before we wrap up I mean I I don't even
23:35
know whether you have any free time but
23:37
do you have free time if you do get some
23:40
free time what are your hobbies buddy
23:41
doing a free time well you know I love
23:43
what I do so I do do it a law and I run
23:45
a company with 150 people in it so it is
23:47
kind of like my life um
23:49
but I actually love tech thinking when
23:51
you're technology I mean this is my
23:53
hobby
23:53
exactly I kind of like made my hobby
23:55
like doing instead of working and so now
23:57
I'm just doing it something you're never
23:59
working you're just you know having fun
24:01
all the time having fun oh yeah but you
24:05
know I'm here in Boston so that's kind
24:06
of fun but yeah we you know we like to
24:08
we live in a city in New York that's
24:10
where the factory is and it's a
24:12
beautiful city and there's amazing art
24:14
and music and events and so it's fun to
24:17
you know we went to a really cool
24:19
fashion show in Brooklyn
24:21
that Microsoft make code was at but
24:23
there's also an amazing fashion show of
24:25
young
24:25
designers who were inspired by the
24:29
Herero women of Nigeria to make Namibia
24:32
to make these beautiful dresses and that
24:35
was like a really enjoyable thing
24:36
because it was totally not writing code
24:38
at all right thank you once again for
24:41
document today and I look forward to
24:42
talk to you again okay well thank you
24:45
[Music]