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Carnicucks btfo, slowly but surely

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Jul 2nd, 2017
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  1. >Why you veggiefags suck dick:
  2. Why your sources are bad and you should feel bad
  3. >your links
  4. my links (no meme arrow)
  5.  
  6. >Vegans are deficit in b12:
  7. Only if they don't take fortified foods like soymilk or nooch
  8. Soymilk example: https://www.alpro.com/uk/products/drinks/soya-plain/fresh-original
  9. Nooch example: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Engevita-Savoury-Yeast-Condiment-Pack/dp/B00A4C48LQ
  10. You can also supplement for 4c a day.
  11. Example: https://www.amazon.co.uk/VITAMIN-tablets-MANUFACTURED-Cheeky-Nutrition/dp/B01N53VY1B/ref=sr_1_10_a_it?ie=UTF8&qid=1498998005&sr=8-10
  12.  
  13. >http://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamaneurology/fullarticle/784788
  14. Why it is not a case against veganism:
  15. 1) Anecdotal case of a couple patients
  16. 2) "TISSUE VITAMIN B12 deficiency can be due to inadequate intake (as seen in vegans), acquired malabsorption (as seen in pernicious anemia), or various inborn errors of cobalamin (Cbl) metabolism."
  17. 2a) No mention of any source on veganism being inherently bad for B12 intake and absorption, expects the reader to take the writer's word for granted
  18. 2b) Ctrl+F "vegan" yields 2 results, both say the same as 2a), again, without source or mechanistic evidence
  19. 3) It wasn't veganism: "Our patients presented no evidence of having defective vitamin B12 supplies, malabsorption, or transport since they had normal vitamin B12 and TCII levels in their serum. Despite the absence of megaloblastic anemia and the presence of normal vitamin B12 serum levels, they were both clearly affected with a neurological form of vitamin B12 deficiency..."
  20. Status: Refuted.
  21.  
  22. Next: (WIP, ignore my half-assed refutation for the time being)
  23. >https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16219987
  24. Why it is not a case against veganism:
  25. 1) "Evaluation of cardiovascular risk profile in 154 German vegans."
  26. 1 line in and there are already 2 mistakes: No control group (omnivores), and relatively small sample size
  27. 2) "METHODS: Cross-sectional study, Germany. Study instruments: 2 FFQ, 2 questionnaires, analyses of fasting venous blood samples."
  28.  
  29. Next: (WIP, ignore my half-assed refutation for the time being)
  30. >High fiber diets reduce serum half life of vitamin D3:
  31. >https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/6299329
  32. 1) Only an abstract
  33. 2) Doesn't differentiate between what it considers "normal" and "high" fiber, doesn't examine the case of "low" fiber at all
  34. 3) Doesn't mention anything on the means or amount of vitamin D intake to the test subjects
  35.  
  36. >Vegans have weaker bones due to lower calcium intake and vitamin D3 levels:
  37. They don't.
  38. 1) https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8154473
  39. "There were 416 subjects (209 cases and 207 controls). Smoking, underweight in old age, overweight at age 20 years, and weight loss were associated with an increased risk of hip fracture. Consumption of DAIRY products, particularly at age 20 years, was associated with an INCREASED RISK of hip fracture in old age.
  40.  
  41. >http://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamainternalmedicine/fullarticle/486478
  42. Why it is not a case against veganism:
  43. 1) It deals with RAW veganism, not veganism
  44. 2) Control groups are not matched for BMI, activity, calorie consumption, dietary calcium intake. "Raw: 1285-2432 kcal/d; mean daily dietary intakes of calcium and vitamin D 579 ± 260 mg/d and 16 ± 36 U/d, respectively. The control group ... 1976-3537 kcal/d, 1093 ± 394 mg/d and 348 ± 192 U/d, respectively." Only similarities were age, "socioeconomic background" and not taking medication that affects bone density
  45. 3) Sample size 18
  46. 4) gotta go, will refute it further tommorow
  47.  
  48. >https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21092700
  49. Why it is not a case against veganism:
  50. 1) Sample size: 4
  51. 2) No control group
  52. Why it is biased:
  53. >In studied vegans, the **dietary intake of ... calcium and vitamin D were below the recommended range**.
  54. This means that low calcium consumption is the cause of low BMD, not *veganism* itself. Also, no mention of their lifestyle (sun exposure) and skin color, which affect serum vit. D (more sun=better, whiter skin=better)
  55. >Concentrations of calcium, phosphate and bone turnover markers in the serum of all subjects were within the physiological range, but 25-hydroxyvitamin D level was low.
  56. >Age-matched Z-score total BMD was between -0.6 and 0.3 in adults, however in children it was lower (-0.9 and -1.0). Z-score BMD lumbar spine (L2-L4) was between -0.9 to -1.9 in parents and -1.5 to -1.7 in children.
  57. >CONCLUSIONS: Our results suggest that an inadequate dietary intake of calcium and vitamin D may impair the bone turnover rate and cause a decrease in bone mineral density...
  58. Apparently, bone turnover rate was unaffected 2 lines ago, what happened?
  59. >...in vegans.
  60. >The parameters of bone density and bone metabolism should be monitored in vegans...
  61. Where did that conclusion come from? You didn't use a low dietary calcium intake omnivore control group, did you?
  62. How about also using two more control groups, one with a high calcium vegan diet and one with a high calcium omni diet?
  63. How about having a bigger sample size next time?
  64. My gut is telling me they didn't drink plant milk. Sad.
  65. Status: refuted.
  66.  
  67. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Haven't read below this line~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
  68.  
  69. Vegans have a worse memory compared to non vegans due to creatine deficiency in vegans:
  70.  
  71. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21118604
  72. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/14561278
  73.  
  74. Vegans have less gains compared to non vegans:
  75.  
  76. http://m.ajcn.nutrition.org/content/70/6/1032.full
  77.  
  78. Vegans are deficient in omega threes:
  79.  
  80. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16087975
  81. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16188209
  82. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12323090
  83. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12323085
  84.  
  85. Vegans are deficit in carnitine:
  86.  
  87. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21753065
  88. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2756917
  89. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1628441/
  90. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11043928
  91. Vegans are deficient in taurine:
  92.  
  93. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3354491
  94.  
  95. Vegans are deficient in iodine:
  96.  
  97. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12748410
  98. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21613354
  99.  
  100. Vegans are deficient in Coenzyme Q10:
  101.  
  102. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16873950
  103.  
  104. Vegans are deficient in iron due to the fact that iron from plant sources is less bioavailable than iron from meat sources:
  105.  
  106. https://ods.od.nih.gov/factsheets/Iron-HealthProfessional/
  107. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11269606
  108.  
  109. Vegans are deficient in vitamin A:
  110.  
  111. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19103647
  112. http://m.jn.nutrition.org/content/137/11/2346.full
  113.  
  114.  
  115. Vegans have a lower sperm count than non vegans:
  116.  
  117. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/35465
  118. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3257705/
  119.  
  120. Vegans have lower testosterone than non vegans:
  121.  
  122. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1435181
  123. http://m.ajcn.nutrition.org/content/42/1/127.abstract
  124. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/159772
  125. http://m.jap.physiology.org/content/82/1/49
  126.  
  127. Veganism causes loss of libido and erectile dysfunction:
  128.  
  129. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21353476
  130. Children who are raised on strict vegan diets do not grow normally:
  131.  
  132. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/4067152
  133. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8005079
  134.  
  135. Children develop rickets after prolonged periods of strict vegetarian diets:
  136.  
  137. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1874810/pdf/canmedaj01383-0052.pdf
  138.  
  139. "There are some links between vegetarians and lower birthweight and earlier labour"
  140.  
  141. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7788369
  142.  
  143. Effects of vitamin B12 and folate deficiency on brain development in children:
  144.  
  145. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3137939/
  146.  
  147. "Particular attention should be paid to adequate protein intake and sources of essential fatty acids, iron, zinc, calcium, and vitamins B12 and D. Supplementation may be required in cases of strict vegetarian diets with no intake of any animal products."
  148.  
  149. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2912628/
  150.  
  151. These next five are case studies:
  152.  
  153. Cerebral atrophy in a vitamin B12-deficient infant of a vegetarian mother:
  154.  
  155. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25076673
  156.  
  157. Severe megaloblastic anemia in child breast fed by a vegetarian mother:
  158.  
  159. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8442642
  160.  
  161. Consequences of exclusive breast-feeding in vegan mother newborn - case report:
  162.  
  163. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19748244
  164.  
  165. Nutritional vitamin B12 deficiency in a breast-fed infant of a vegan-diet mother:
  166.  
  167. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3948463
  168.  
  169. "We report the case of a 7 month-old girl that presented with acute anemia, generalized muscular hypotonia and failure to thrive. Laboratory evaluation revealed cobalamin deficiency, due to a vegan diet of the mother."
  170.  
  171. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18293883
  172.  
  173. Most recent studies using more sensitive techniques for detecting B12 deficiency have found that 68% of vegetarians and 83% of vegans are B12 deficient, compared to just 5% of omnivores. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12816782
  174. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10966896
  175. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10552882
  176.  
  177. On paper, calcium intake is similar in vegetarians and omnivores (probably because both eat dairy products), but is much lower in vegans, who are often deficient.
  178. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21139125
  179. http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/70/3/543s.full
  180.  
  181. Vegetarians and omnivores have similar levels of serum iron, but levels of ferritin—the long-term storage form of iron—are lower in vegetarians than in omnivores.
  182. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24871479
  183.  
  184. This is significant, because ferritin depletion is the first stage of iron deficiency. Moreover, although vegetarians often have similar iron intakes to omnivores on paper, it is more common for vegetarians (and particularly vegans) to be iron deficient. For example, this study of 75 vegan women in Germany found that 40% of them were iron deficient, despite average iron intakes that were above the recommended daily allowance.
  185. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/14988640
  186. http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/78/3/633S.long
  187.  
  188. many plant foods that contain zinc also contain phytate, which inhibits zinc absorption. Vegetarian diets tend to reduce zinc absorption by about 35% compared with omniovorous diet.
  189. http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/78/3/633S.long
  190.  
  191. Thus, even when the diet meets or exceeds the RDA for zinc, deficiency may still occur. One study suggested that vegetarians may require up to 50% more zinc than omnivores for this reason.
  192. http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/78/3/633S.long
  193.  
  194. Soy decreases your testosterone
  195. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15735098
  196. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/labs/articles/10798211/
  197.  
  198. Why you need dietary cholesterol:
  199.  
  200. Eating meat increases testosterone
  201. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11103227
  202.  
  203. Saturated Fat Finally Vindicated in Long Buried Study
  204. http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2016/04/25/saturated-fat-finally-vindicated.aspx
  205.  
  206. Medium Chain Triglyceride Oil Consumption as Part of a Weight Loss Diet Does Not Lead to an Adverse Metabolic Profile When Compared to Olive Oil
  207. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2874191/
  208.  
  209. Why you need cholesterol for testosterone
  210. http://www.livestrong.com/article/435773-cholesterol-testosterone/
  211.  
  212. Finding your upper limit with cholesterol
  213. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3292202/
  214. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16340654
  215.  
  216. Very wide and diverse amounts of similar research and current scientific consensus (look at the links at the bottom)
  217. https://examine.com/nutrition/will-eating-eggs-increase-my-cholesterol
  218.  
  219. Exercise lowers cholesterol
  220. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2297284
  221. http://www.webmd.com/cholesterol-management/features/exercise-to-lower-cholesterol
  222.  
  223. Europeans can probably digest fat better than other races
  224. https://www.nap.edu/read/11537/chapter/13 (also a generic good read on dietary cholesterol and dieting)
  225. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/04/03/europeans-genes-fat-neanderthals_n_5083408.html
  226.  
  227. Why "moral arguments" dont matter (there are literally thousands of them but I shall target the most popular ones)
  228.  
  229. It is not economically friendly, nor important for the world to forgo meat as we have a surplus of retarded niggers on this planet.
  230. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ubGzbj59_Xs
  231.  
  232. Giant read through summarizing dietary protein
  233. http://www.catalystathletics.com/articles/downloads/proteinDebate.pdf
  234.  
  235. Another giant read through as to why you are a lazy fuck and should move more. Very high quality, provided by the european union.
  236. http://eurheartj.oxfordjournals.org/content/ehj/37/29/2315.full.pdf
  237.  
  238. misc, how to go through paywall articles:
  239.  
  240. http://sci-hub.io/
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