Arceus DPP

Hey ! I coudn't more agree with Dream.


[SPOILER= Thought about FullCeus legality]

Quick note to start, but I think that the restricted Arceus (only 100EV on all stats) solution shouldn't be focused, only FullCeus should be discussed. Ban non-restricted Arceus but allow the restricted Arceus (is) seem a terrible lack of consistence and simplicity, a important aspect of Smogon rules. History shows us than this type of ban should be avoided (Example : Baton Pass, I think that it safe to say, BP "PS" nerf don't have so much changed that BP have been finally fully banned in SM).


In my opinion, FullCeus is legal like Farceus, since Level 80 Hall of Origin (=FullCeus) exsits in the game. Not even DPP data but DPP games themselves so it is something planned by Game Freak, basically if GF has decided to relase Azure Flute it would be 100% legal. It is something of rare (I think that only Darkrai and Shyamin was in same case? And both were allowed accoring Fireburn).

At this stade, I will quote something of our past utl, aka Fireburn , from the old theard about DPP Arceus legality:


[QUOTE]

As far as I can tell from combing through old PR threads (a trip through memory lane if there ever was one), we follow a simple banning philosophy at our core: whatever is legally obtainable in-game without the aid of an external cheating device (example: using a Gameshark to get Wonder Guard Spiritomb or Sheer Cold Machamp) is fair game unless it is explicitly banned by our ruleset. Glitches fall under this definition, and usually they have only been prohibited if they are significantly detrimental to competitive balance or just play in general (Acid Weather, Mimic Glitch, glitchmons in rby). The rationale for allowing the Darkrai and Shaymin obtainable via the tweaking glitch is that they are fully obtainable within the confines of the game itself, without the aid of an external cheating device, and it is possible to start a multiplayer battle with these Pokemon once obtained. This was previously not thought to be possible with the Hall of Origin Arceus, but we now have conclusive proof that it was in fact possible the whole time, ergo it should be allowed under the same rationale that Darkrai and Shaymin were allowed.


(Note that there isn't a thread I could find titled "Darkrai and Shaymin are now unbanned", but from reviewing the old PR stuff there is enough to indicate they were allowed.)

[/QUOTE]


The glitch who allow to catch Arceus don't use "external cheating" to bring player to Arceus and start multi-player battle, and, on other hand, dones't "are significantly detrimental to competitive balance". It all good!

I'm not familiar at all with the NP Gengar mentionned by M Dragon but after some research I can see that the bug allow any pokemon to learn any move (see the description of glitch), it easily fail under this "prohibited if they are significantly detrimental to competitive balance". By this, I mean, we can't compare the glitch witch allow to catch HOO Arceus, witch (HOO Arceus I mean, not the glitch himself) are created by GF, and a glitch who allow to every pokemon to get litteraly... every move.


Tl;dr Level 80 HOO Arceus IS legal, and shouldn't be "banned" because we are using a glitch.

[/SPOILER]


Talking about Arceus or not:

I'm playing often current DPP Ubers (so witout Arceus), and I am opposed at the introduction of Arceus in DPP Ubers, for two (majors) raison :


* Considering how metagame will change after the introdution of basically 720 BST 17 pokemon, it would basically mean that the classic DPP Ubers would be changed forever, and this after litteraly now 3 generations after DPP's end. This fact amplify my personnel incomprehension about why option 1 are selected in case no option is clearly liked. Introduce Arceus only now would like if we unban Mega-Rayquaza in ORAS now, creating a totally new (broken) metagame after the generation end. Moreover it would be in chall-only, let make temporary RoA spotlights ladder aside. I suppose, this metagame, FullCeus or FarCeus, can't reasonably develop and will have hard time to have  plublic sample, create ressources for help new players ect..

Some people will may said, there are some low tiers tiers who have been created after end of generation like DPP PU, but these metagme is actively supported by the community and was even created by players. I believe, it not the case for Full/FarCeus DPP Ubers. Like dream on this theard or Hugendugen on the 2year-old theard have said, the playerbase (and I agree) don't particularly Full/FarCeus and like more the current DPP Ubers.

I think that it worth mentionning that classic DPP Ubers is the only generation of Ubers have been at Smogon Tour and this witout Arceus. The current DPP Ubers is a unique level on Ubers generation and even on overall Smogon , and it should be preserved, at least I feel.


* All Arceus-forms in DPP is unhealty and potentially broken, resultant in less enjoyable metagame. This point is a bit tricky due to Ubers policy at this moment but I simply agree with steelskitty and dream here, dream has well explained this aspect, I don't have many thing to add, just I want say, unlike BW and later gen, you cannot try to guess Arceus-type, (with for example, "oh my opposent don't have any Yveltal check except Arceus so I expect that it is Fairy or Dark Arceus" or something like this in USUM) since Team Preview is removed.


tl;dr my preference would go for the Option 3, KEEP ARCEUS BANNED (or officially ban Arceus it is same thing)


Posting here, on PR is a bit intimidating because I know I'm not exactly the most legitimate person to say such things, since my level isn't high compared at most of people who post here. But whatever our opinon about Arceus in DPP Ubers, since it could be the final theard about this, I believe that we need to have high participation and it is what have motivated to post here. Thanks for reading!