<NerK__> @telamon, once again zero conversation?
<NerK__> just straight up listen to one player!?
<Telamon> I have a day job,  I cannot handle the childish drama
<[TnT]Nymeria> I don't run harrower but I think everyone can agree that the cheating around it is pretty lame. Warning system anywhere on the map, sending in pets then leaving to collect plat from the safety of your home, etc. Until he can fix it I think it's reasonable just to lock the cheaters out.
<Telamon> If you guys cannot play nice, then we will not have nice things
<NerK__> But telamon, there is no drama!
<NerK__> the only drama is one person who has run 1 harrower since being here
<NerK__> and you're changing everything for that!?
<Telamon> Apparently someone placed a skull on the harrower platform and that means the server is broken, exploited
<Telamon> and people are getting text messages about the exact location, time date, and hp for harrowers
<Telamon> I dont even fucking know anymore
<Telamon> I cant patch discord
<NerK__> =/
<elhorno> arg, hard to be motivated to champ if u cant run the harries
<Telamon> I will not quit my day job just to patch things quick enough to deal with your drama between groups
<Telamon> My job, life is more important than this petty bullshit
<NerK__> But you dont have to patch it quickly!
<NerK__> just leave it up
<elhorno> but t he system has been working well forever
<Telamon> apparently I do
<NerK__> ur punshing a whole group of people
<NerK__> because of one person
<elhorno> let us be raided by them
<NerK__> exactly!
<[TnT]Nymeria> Stop being lame and Tela wont have to bring the hammer (c wat i did thar) down on your shenanigans.
<NerK__> he's run ONE harrower telamon!
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<NerK__> he's also pumping you full of lies. its impostible to know the exact location time and date and hp
<NerK__> its redic.
<Telamon> im exaggerating,  but I dont really care at this point
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<Telamon> I do not have the time to refute every argument you are all giving me
<NerK__> fine so refute just one
<Telamon> Me fixing the trick is clearly not enough, I cannot fix the percepption
<NerK__> why punish a community of people who are the only ones doingit
<NerK__> meaning only ones doing harrowers
<Telamon> Its not about doing the harrowers, its just about trolling, and bullshit
<NerK__> to believe the only reason we rade is because of a BOT is nonsence.. you should know that from the work involcved in IDOC
<NerK__> harrowers is the same thing
<Telamon> And I dont have the time to deal with it
<NerK__> ur letting the troll win thought!?
<Telamon> Ive wasted an hour already during my work day on this bullshit
<elhorno> its just like calling idocers cheaters, leading to turning off house decay, even though they are just putting in the hard work
<Telamon> The goal is to destroy confidence in the system, and that has been accomplished
<NerK__> its on person telamon!
<NerK__> one person!!
<elhorno> meh, what system shall we put our energy into next nerk
<elhorno> i dont like fishing, maybe we can go excel at that for awhile and get it nixed
<NerK__> right
<Telamon> Then who is placing and tracking the skulls to raid the harrower Nerk
<Telamon> even once I fix that trick, people will go oplace single skulls
<Telamon> and claim to be tracking then
<NerK__> if you'd really like for me to tell you.
<Telamon> leading to endless people bitching at me over the "broken server"
<NerK__> i recall to harrowers spots multiple times a day
<NerK__> i know everytime someone runs a fucking champ on this shard
<Telamon> You all fucking hate each other,  I cannot fix tha
<NerK__> and i know exactly how many skulls are out here
<elhorno> we love them, they may hate us but we have nothing but love for MID
<NerK__> so i know when groupd are sitting on skulls
<NerK__> and i watch the starroom
<elhorno> they are guys who love UOR just like us
<Telamon> At some point the hate simple becomes strong enough that there is no point for a server, community or irc
<Telamon> Because its not even about playing UO
<Telamon> Its about fucking the shit out of the assholes you hate
<NerK__> turn the harrower on
<Telamon> And the ultimate win there, is removing the whole server
<NerK__> let that asshole come and find us doing it
<NerK__> it's fun!
<Telamon> so people can sit back and say "haha I won"
<NerK__> its content
<elhorno> raiding harrowers isnt about hate at all
<elhorno> this is uo
<Telamon> Raiding is irrelrvant
<elhorno> i have ZERO ill will towards these guys
<NerK__> i want to have other groups i was so excited
<Telamon> And yet,   you all expect me to shovel your bullshit
<Telamon> thats the part I dont understand
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<Telamon> Were going to use a macro, someone is, to track that single fucking skull
<NerK__> excuse me.. were not tossing any bs your way!
<Telamon> and cause players to go into absolute fucking meltdown over it
<elhorno> nobody is tracking that skull
<NerK__> we've been upfront with you about alot!
<Telamon> spendingh 24/7 telling everyone who willlisten
<Telamon> that it is being tracked and people are being alerted in discord
<Telamon> go read the 200post thread
<Telamon> I cannot compete with that
<Telamon> regardless if it is even happening
<NerK__> you dont think people have mare trackers?
<Telamon> Someone placed a skull this morning,  to track I suspect, and caused a meltdown by other players
<NerK__> you dont think people have discord alerts for other shit?
<elhorno> nobody placed that skull to track
<[TnT]Nymeria> Why was the skull placed then?
<Telamon> Its simple
<elhorno> as a joke, one i will admit at this moment of time doesnt seem very funny
<Telamon> If players work overtime to convince everyone on the server that things are broken
<Telamon> And the staff lacks the time to dispute that
<NerK__> but why feed into that player then
<Telamon> then players eventually bleed away,  why bother playing on a broken server
<Telamon> Just liike the statements Nerk is making
<Telamon> why bother trying to get a nightmare,  people just cheat them anyway
<Telamon> why camp idoc's, its all bots anyway
<Telamon> why kill monsters, its all bots anyway
<NerK__> but you know thats not true
<NerK__> it takes work
<NerK__> you know that more then anyone
<Telamon> Why have a server at all, its just russian bots
<[TnT]Nymeria> Running macros and discord bots isn't work.
<Ahirman> I love this server. Nothing I read in the forums will convince me otherwise.
<Telamon> And yet,  you all try to convince people that there is no point in playing
<elhorno> nymeria your a goofball if you think this is what is involved
<Telamon> Alll my time is dealing with fearmongering
<NerK__> but ur feeding it telamon!
<Telamon> Ive wasted a full week dealing with this skull bullshit
<NerK__> you turned off that alter with out talking to the main pvmers in the community
<elhorno> ok telamon how about we launch a campaign to educate people on the work we do
<Telamon> Not because I saw a single person do it
<NerK__> which fueled the fire
<NerK__> how can you not see thaty
<Telamon> but because a huge section of our players is now claiming it is happening
<Telamon> I stayed completely out of it
<NerK__> look at the harrower logs. look who's running them
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<NerK__> look who has the most to lose!
<Telamon> until people were claiming that razor packet readers can be written in 30 minutes to alert discord to anything happening in the world
<NerK__> and we're telling you to turn it back on!
<Telamon> People started claiming things work there, that dont
* [TnT]Fresh (~TnTFresh@300459C8.FB6BAF86.166B28EE.IP) has joined
<Telamon> am i just supposed to let that go?
<Telamon> "I can speed hack, it works all the time"
<Telamon> And as pvp'ers all quit because "yea I knew he speed hacks"
<elhorno> no, you dont let it go, but you dont punish the people who are accused of speed hacking when you know that its not even possible
<[TnT]Fresh> i heard some douchies were having a dramaqueen fit! im here for the show :)
<Telamon> DO is A. Say nothing  B. explain in detail for the 9000th time that there is a movement throttle that does not allow that"
<NerK__> c do as horno said!
<elhorno> im sitting here in the 6th largest guild on the server, active guild, playing all the damn time and all we do is champ
<elhorno> and now we are like, wtf are we gunna do now
<NerK__> Fresh we have the gm of the sever having a conversation with the community
<elhorno> i am super bummed people dont realize the amount of work we do
<elhorno> and it sucks u have to explain that to people who assume we cheat
<NerK__> and the only way to do it is explain what we do
<Telamon> Thats all I do elhorno,  its all I fucking do....
<[TnT]Fresh> i heard some douchies got their easy (too easy) plat taken away and now cry about it ;o *grabs popcorn*
<elhorno> but the reality is, we put in the work, and i could compile hundreds of documents to support this work
<Telamon> My job here is 90% explaining that people dont cheat
<NerK__> so talk to us telamon
<Telamon> People are convinced that harrowers are being tracked and reported  in discord
<Telamon> and every time some idiot places a skull there,  there is a colective fucking freak out
<Cue> TBH you guys, look at it from a new player's or a returning player's perspective.  Every other post on the forums seems to be cheating accusations
<Telamon> someone placed one today to trigger that exact situation
<NerK__> people? do you know how many harrowers have been run outside of us this year!?
<Telamon> And Cue is correct
<Telamon> its the whole community at this point
<[SOF]Ruck> morning UOR
<Telamon> Our mods are tired, the staff is tired
<Telamon> You all FUCKING hate each other
<Telamon> and every other forum post is "they cheat this, they cheat that"
<[SOF]Ruck> I only hate Nymeria
<Telamon> Its exhausting
<NerK__> so ignore that drama telamon
<Telamon> even if I fix the harrower, for YEARS you will be acussing each other of cheating
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<NerK__> its all meaningless
<Telamon> Its because all; new players see is this shit
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<Telamon> If we give up,  then this place turns into UOSA
<Telamon> where vets on the forums just wait for new people to show up
<NerK__> so you're punsihing the people who came to you in private to let you know stuff
<Telamon> to tell them "there is no point in this/that,  vets just cheat"
<NerK__> and rewarding the guy who blew up your forums
<Telamon> "Hey I want to camp house decays"   "there no point IDERP cheats"
<Telamon> no context no details just a 3 year white hot hatred of a group of players
<Telamon> overriding any concern for the health of the server
<NerK__> :(
<elhorno> what would you do if you were us?
<[SOF]Ruck> good question
<elhorno> i started a public champ group to help educate people
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<PaddyOBrien> start spanking people and sending them to timeout
<elhorno> we just chill and champ lol, i cant control what jealous people pm you
<Telamon> Think about it this way
<Telamon> I can patch the server
<elhorno> but we are more then willing to work with you
<PaddyOBrien> with no snacks
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<Telamon> I cannot patch players who are dead set convincing people that the server is broken
<[SOF]Ruck> only crayons
<[SOF]Ruck> and meditation rooms
<PaddyOBrien> yep
<NerK__> but you are REWARDING THAT PLAYER!!!
<Telamon> Im not fucking happy with anyone
<Telamon> I just dont have time to deal with "ban this cheater, he placed a skull bullshit
<elhorno> we are producing sooo much content
<NerK__> so much content!
<Telamon> someone clearly placed a skull to cause this drama this morning
<elhorno> prolly 4 hours a day of a group of people champing
<Telamon> and If I enable it
<Telamon> it will be drama tomorrow
<Telamon> the next day
<Telamon> the next day
<NerK__> but telamon
<NerK__> its one person causing drama
<Telamon> and reports on the forums that bots are being used for _______
<NerK__> your punshing a community!
<PaddyOBrien> do the skulls not decay?
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<Telamon> I was in here the other day and told by no less than 10 players how broken this place was
<Infantry> Hey Telamon I was wondering if you could bust me out of jail
<Telamon> because of things that half didnt even work
<[SOF]Ruck> NerK i'll punsh you
<Infantry> I hit the wrong gump response last night
<Infantry> and now i'm in jail
<elhorno> well we love UOR, everyone i know loves UOR
<[TnT]Nymeria> I think the animosity is that there's a handful of very rich players who historically have used bots to get an edge. Whether it's IDOC Bot Joe or the Harrower dagger trick. Give Tela time to patch it so those things don't work.
<Telamon> Infantry you canceled you page
<NerK__> i hate SOF but i also love that they are here :)
<Infantry> ohh i'll send it again
<Telamon> Name your proof of that Infantry
<[SOF]Ruck> <3
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<elhorno> where do we go from here tela
<Infantry> lol
<Telamon> Nymeria is a perfect example of why im so close to giving up
<Infantry> thanks for letting me
<Infantry> out
<[SOF]Ruck> bahaha
<Infantry> i've had 4 mini strokes I get confused
<Infantry> lol
<Telamon> I cannot complete with all of the players convincing everyone that everyone is a bot, everyone cheats and nothing is fair
<Telamon> Ive devoted 6 years to making a fair server
<Leopold> I never got the impression that the IDOC/champ people were cheating when I started here, but that, like some of the really good PvPers, they are just so good it would be difficult to compete with them.
<NerK__> its very fair! everyone has the same rules to play by!
<Leopold> I thought that mares were
<Infantry> This is by far the best server in the world
<[SOF]Ruck> Nymeria spews shit out of his/her mouth
<elhorno> you show me a bot and ill show u a way to defeat it, every damn time
<[TnT]Nymeria> I'm not saying all that, I'm saying that I've read that these things have been going on and that you're working on them
<[SOF]Ruck> best to ignore
<NoseG> If Nymeria leaves, this server would be a better place.  Also, he wouldn't be able to steal from anymore guilds
<Telamon> and everyone works overtime to convince new players it is not fair, because FUCK THE IDERP, or Fuck the blue skull people
<[TnT]Nymeria> I'm not here to make people not want to play.
<Leopold> I thought that mares were "locked down" but I've helped some new players tame them
<[TnT]Nymeria> I'm telling them they need patience why you work on stuff. I haven't complained on the forums about iDOC or blue skull
<[TnT]Nymeria> because I don't do either of those activities. I don't give a fuck.
<[SOF]Ruck> youre so nice
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<NerK__> Telamon DERP and Blue Skul people dont care what people say.
<Majestic_> no but you do however insert yourself in all drama on uor
<NoseG> Nymeria, every single time you say something you start drama.  Please just stop
<[SOF]Ruck> ^
<Telamon> Its the general perception that "its all bots, everyone cheats, nothing is fair"
<NoseG> Nymeria should change his name to "that guy" becuase hes always .. that guy..
<[TnT]Nymeria> the drama is already here. I'm just throwing in my two cents as someone who isn't involved but have observed everything going on.
<Infantry> Thanks Telamon for busting me out
<Telamon> Why should I throw 1000 hours into patches trying to achieve fairness
<Telamon> when the players ignore all that, and claim "nothing is fair"
<elhorno> ok telamon is there anything we can do to help change that perception?
<Telamon> Seems not fixing anything, equals the same result
<NoseG> Nymeria, your 2 cents isnt worth 1/2 a cent
<[TnT]Nymeria> SOF stay big mad.
<Majestic_> ^
<NerK__> or leave it the way it is and let people play with in the rules?
<[TnT]Nymeria> I ain't worried bout yall
<[TnT]Nymeria> lol
<[TnT]Fresh> awww :(  meanies! *grabs more popcorn*
<Infantry> I've spent years here minus one year break and I play about 16 hours a day I think its pretty fair
<elhorno> clearly the blue skull being placed this morning was a bad idea
<Infantry> what is a blue skull
<NoseG> a blue skull is HAXXXORS
<NerK__> i want to make a joke on what a blue skull is
<NerK__> but i wont
<[TnT]Fresh> Selling leper sandals!
<PaddyOBrien> we all need therapy up in here.  or some Mister Rogers
<NoseG> Yall mother fuckers need Jesus
<Infantry> what is Haxxxors
<[SOF]Ruck> ^
<NoseG> Haxxxors is Haxxors with an extra x
<NoseG> its hardcore hax
<elhorno> the reason i like champing is because u gotta earn your gold/plat in the open world
<elhorno> where u can be pkd
<elhorno> raided
<Telamon> Just keep this in mind,  I can only fix the server
<Infantry> Ok lets try this again could you explain it to me like I have no idea what your talking about
<elhorno> infantry, its the same old story
<Telamon> I cannot fix all the effort people put into discoraging people on the forums, forum pvp, irc pvp designed to discourage people from playing here
<elhorno> group of people excel at something, their enemies are bitter and pm telamon saying they cheat
<[TnT]Nymeria> I think we all understand that Tela, I was just saying people need to give you time and stop making noise until you can address it.
<Infantry> ohh i see
<NoseG> Just allow steam and all will be well in the server
<Telamon> The players expect me to defend them endlessly, which I do, against accusations of cheating
<NoseG> everyone can script, not just a few
<Telamon> but it has become all I do
<elhorno> telamon is having to repeatedly, daily, explain that we are just putting in hard work
<Telamon> The new thing this week
<elhorno> and got tired of that daily explaination so deleted the harrower altar
<Telamon> is reporting that people are using UOS, to scout houses, and report decays in discord
<Telamon> Something that doesnt even fucking work here
<Telamon> doesnt matter, lets accuse people of that
<elhorno> now we got a 85 person guild twiddling their thumbs wondering what to do
<PaddyOBrien> ?
<Majestic_> telamon I have a question I sent a pm.  has nothing to do with what's being talked about here.
<[SOF]Ruck> 85 people? dayum
<NoseG> Elhorno come pvp
<[TnT]Fresh> champs still work though?
<Infantry> Can't we all just get along like my buddy Rodney said
<elhorno> i guess i could start working on my champion spawn mega guide
<Telamon> Ill turn the harrower back on
<[TnT]Fresh> so whats the problem?
<Telamon> and I will cancel the patch
<NoseG> bring your 85 boys onto the field
<Telamon> and just sit there 24/7
<Telamon> devoting all staff resources, to manually removing skulls if they sit alone for more than 10 minutes
<PaddyOBrien> can't you just make t hem decay after so long Telamon?
<[SOF]Ruck> can you wipe faction points as well
<[SOF]Ruck> thanks
<Telamon> I already fixed the message problem,
<Telamon> IM not being given time to even get the patch in
<Telamon> and im not confident that even if I patch it, that anyone will believe it
<Telamon> reality had become irrelevant at this point
<[TnT]Fresh> Telamon who;'s not giving you the time? Oo
<Telamon> Its not about what can be done ingame, its what I can convince other players is being done
<elhorno> well i hope to god we get raided next harrower
<elhorno> if you detracters are worth your weight in salt, you had better raid our asses
<elhorno> and watch us not complain
<NoseG> if you are worth your salt, you'll come out and pvp with your 85 dudes
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<PaddyOBrien> start putting them in the corner then, giving them temp irc / forum bans if they keep squabbling
<elhorno> noseG we are pvping every single day
<elhorno> come find us at the champ grounds
<Majestic_> I started pvping this week
<[TnT]Fresh> with 85 ppl? :D
<PaddyOBrien> go full dad mode on them
<NoseG> I don't see 85 guys running around together
<Majestic_> ask people how it took em 5 seconds to drop me haha
<[SOF]StarScream> People who complain or bitch 95% of them just fucking SUCK IRL and INGAME bottom line. Know your role and shut your mouth .
<NoseG> YEAH STARSCREAM GETS IT
<NoseG> fuck yall
<NoseG> and go find JESUS
<[TnT]Fresh> fuck yall!
<[TnT]Fresh> and go find the holy noodleness!
<[TnT]Fresh> fuck jezus!
<NoseG> FUCK THE DEVIL
<NoseG> jesus lives
<NoseG> in an imaginary land
<Telamon> The problem is 1 player,  tells 10 players,  the 10 players take what the one player says as fact, and then report it to 10 more players
<Telamon> Just like long ago Bart and Mutumbo did
<Telamon> 2 players, single handedly destroyed confidence in the mining economy
<Telamon> intentionally by making it seems they were explioting the server, when they were not
<Telamon> wasting months of the staff time
<[420]Eskeleto> ^^^^
<NoseG> If you all think this server has issues, go play UOF for a week.  You'll see issues for real, not this petty bullshit
<Telamon> Their goal was to convince players it was broken, and there was no point in mining, because our bots were super effective
<[420]Eskeleto> :(
<[SOF]Ruck> [TnT]Fresh  fuck jezus
<[SOF]Ruck> classy TNT is classy
<[TnT]Fresh> yus!
<Telamon> So the core question is,  do I just give up and let the vets convince new players not to play here because they have an endless axe to grind with groups they do not like, methods they do not understand?
<[TnT]Fresh> sorry for not being a religious nutjob
<[TnT]Fresh> (K)
<Telamon> Or do I endlessly try to convince people that fearmongering, is just fearmongering