Part 1

Oct 22nd, 2012
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  1. [20:01:34] <danhezee> Maybe we should all start chanting sally and then she will appear
  2. [20:01:40] <EldredChandler> DE: I think you mad them mad ;-;
  3. [20:01:49] <Colorpinpoint> maybe
  4. [20:01:59] *** SallyTheButcher ( has joined #thebastion
  5. [20:02:04] *** DE sets mode: +v SallyTheButcher
  6. [20:02:05] <Silnius> Sally Sally Sally Sally !! ♫ ♫
  7. [20:02:05] <EldredChandler> :)
  8. [20:02:06] <DE> Hello SallyTheButcher
  9. [20:02:09] <Silnius> It works
  10. [20:02:09] <Colorpinpoint> or not
  11. [20:02:15] <SallyTheButcher> Greetings
  12. [20:02:20] <Silnius> danhezee: you was right !
  13. [20:02:20] <Colorpinpoint> ello SallyTheButcher
  14. [20:02:21] <Silnius> Hello SallyTheButcher :)
  15. [20:02:50] <danhezee> yes
  16. [20:02:53] <Frosty> Ah, SallyTheButcher , we meet again
  17. [20:02:54] <DE> SallyTheButcher, okie so there are some clan members/leaders here as well as TheGrandmaster StackOverflow and danhezee who would like to hear about you tohughts on the current clan/council system
  18. [20:03:22] <TheGrandmaster> sup
  19. [20:03:56] <DE> SallyTheButcher so yeh please in your own time. What do you think of the current subsection and small clans system?
  20. [20:04:00] <DE> and the clan council?
  21. [20:04:13] *** Quits: StackOverflow (~StackOver@ (Ping timeout)
  22. [20:04:24] *** PABH_Away is now known as PABH
  23. [20:04:27] * gen_applejack goes for popcorn
  24. [20:05:29] <DE> And obvs feel free to ask us any questions
  25. [20:05:36] * TheGrandmaster prods SallyTheButcher with the blunt end of a pencil
  26. [20:05:42] <Frosty> That feel when she ends up having a ping timeout
  27. [20:05:58] <DE> She's probs typing a novel....o.0 just give time
  28. [20:06:02] <danhezee>
  29. 17138
  30. [20:06:11] * Frosty throws an agenda at SallyTheButcher
  31. [20:06:23] <danhezee> lol
  32. [20:07:14] <DE> have patience young grasshopper's
  33. [20:07:24] <Silnius> Sally Sally Sally Sally !! ♫ ♫
  34. [20:07:27] <danhezee> ^ technically DE wrote the link I posted. I copy pasta'd it for red name tag effect
  35. [20:07:48] <danhezee> wrote the post in the link*
  36. [20:07:52] <SallyTheButcher> I think what is in place now has surved it's purpose and has kept things tidy well, however I think there could be a significant shake up to the whole way of thinking in terms of clans
  37. [20:08:24] <DE> SallyTheButcher, okay. intresting. Any ideas about what kind of shake up? notihng solid, but just any general ideas
  38. [20:08:30] <danhezee> Do tell?
  39. [20:08:36] <DE> nothing* grr
  40. [20:08:54] <SallyTheButcher> I get there's a clan council I believe their function is to judge other clans to be worthy of joining them as well as voting on various other stuff
  41. [20:09:13] <DE> SallyTheButcher and furthermore what do you think of this new clan council proposel? since the current one is not functioning well.
  42. 17138
  43. [20:09:25] <SallyTheButcher> I think each clan should govern itself in its own right in its own environment
  44. [20:09:37] <Frosty> ...
  45. [20:09:40] <SallyTheButcher> This would encourage stronger individual identity
  46. [20:09:47] *** SneakyMobile (
  47. ) has joined #thebastion
  48. [20:09:50] <Frosty> Don't we have this already?
  49. [20:09:52] <DE> SallyTheButcher, and seperate the weak from the strong alot faster I suppose
  50. [20:10:00] *** DE sets mode: +v SneakyMobile
  51. [20:10:17] <SallyTheButcher> I don't understand why individulas would govern other clans
  52. [20:10:24] <SallyTheButcher> and judge their worth
  53. [20:10:26] <Silnius> Ok SallyTheButcher , but maybe aos still need section on forum, or like little seciton to contact clan for match and recruitment. Because if any player come on forum, he will see what are clans on aos
  54. [20:10:27] <DE> SallyTheButcher ill explain
  55. [20:10:42] <DE> most clans fail. they have a 90% fail rate and turn into random threads full of spam and rubbish
  56. [20:10:53] <Tin|AWAY> ^
  57. [20:10:55] <Frosty> ^
  58. [20:10:55] <SallyTheButcher> they would always have forum representation in some form or another this much is essential
  59. [20:10:56] *** Tin|AWAY is now known as Tin-
  60. [20:10:58] <DE> why would we wan to give a subsection to a clan that turns out like that?
  61. [20:11:08] <DE> thats where the council comes in
  62. [20:11:09] <SallyTheButcher> for exactly the reasons you mentioned Silnius
  63. [20:11:24] <Frosty> I have an idea
  64. [20:11:38] <Frosty> Perhaps clans would need to govern their own forums
  65. [20:11:42] <Tin-> Someone needs to make decision over clans. If every clan got their section, clans would've become chaotic. Chaos. Boom.
  66. [20:11:45] <DE> SallyTheButcher, yeh. a much more here and now issue. is would kagex allow us to slightly change the clan coun cil? as we are considering doing.
  67. [20:11:48] <Silnius> Well, DE , for example, my clan is not so much active on forum, because half of us don't speak very well english, but we need it for have a links with the community. So maybe a part for contact clan will be just good also
  68. [20:11:52] <SallyTheButcher> Why would it matter DE ?
  69. [20:11:55] <Frosty> And to find a clan, a list is made that links to the clans individual forums
  70. [20:12:01] <SallyTheButcher> if they fail they fail nothing comes of them
  71. [20:12:17] <DE> SallyTheButcher, becuase a new council with the new system will be more effective and imrpove the qaulity of subsections
  72. [20:12:23] <DE> improve*
  73. [20:12:28] <SallyTheButcher> I also think there needs to be a lot more wider support to encourage clan creation, recruitment and activity
  74. [20:12:39] *** StackOverflow ( has joined #thebastion
  75. [20:12:39] <DE> but if they fail and there is no council, they can't remove there own threads
  76. [20:12:39] *** Q sets mode: +v StackOverflow
  77. [20:12:40] <SneakyMobile> d
  78. [20:12:43] <DE> they just block up the subsection
  79. [20:12:54] <DE> and the admins get bogged down with deletion requests
  80. [20:13:01] <DE> which is what has happened before
  81. [20:13:06] <DE> and prompted the councils creation
  82. [20:13:37] <SallyTheButcher> Let me ask a question do you think the way the council operates encourages new players to try a clan knowing they need to win favour with the council?
  83. [20:13:42] <Tin-> Sally, there are too many clans which have no idea what they are doing.
  84. [20:13:50] <Frosty> yes
  85. [20:13:52] <DE> SallyTheButcher thats what we want to change
  86. [20:13:59] <SallyTheButcher> So you change the system DE to one that cuts this out
  87. [20:14:18] <DE> the new system just gathers information
  88. [20:14:23] <Silnius> Maybe section for active clan, and if they want. And a more little section for contact clan or idk
  89. [20:14:27] <DE> the amdins would decide with the council if they get a subsection or not
  90. [20:14:30] <DE> admins*
  91. [20:14:34] <Tin-> Also, clans section need more moderators. It's wild out there! By mods, I don't mean new moderators that came into community, I mean the most experienced clan leaders / clan observators.
  92. [20:14:39] <SallyTheButcher> So why not just have requirements for certain 'support'
  93. [20:14:52] <DE> SallyTheButcher, we tried having requirments. didn't work out
  94. [20:14:52] <StackOverflow> did I miss anything important?
  95. [20:14:57] <tiki> ^no
  96. [20:14:57] <Fornax> nope
  97. [20:14:59] <Tin-> nope
  98. [20:15:01] <DE> the clans still had the high failure rate
  99. [20:15:01] <danhezee> not yet
  100. [20:15:11] <Fornax> and the subsection curse
  101. [20:15:16] <Fornax> someone needs to find a cure for that
  102. [20:15:26] *** PABH is now known as PABH_Away
  103. [20:15:26] <DE> SallyTheButcher, we jsut want this until 1.0. then you guys do what you like.
  104. [20:15:57] <SallyTheButcher> Sure well you guys are free to carry on as you see best I think the suggestion is an improvement sure
  105. [20:16:01] <DE> becuase i can promise you that while the new system is in operation. it will drasticly speed up the process time for a clans subsection application
  106. [20:16:08] <DE> ahh excellent
  107. [20:16:10] <DE> thank you.
  108. [20:16:15] <Silnius> Yeah but clan can still failed after that
  109. [20:16:24] <DE> moving on o/. SallyTheButcher what questions do you have for us?
  110. [20:16:34] <Tin-> SallyTheButcher: Is it possible that tGM imports new mods on e.g clans?
  111. [20:16:38] <Fornax> aren't we supposed to ask her questions DE
  112. [20:16:43] <SallyTheButcher> indeed decision by council can take some time I have experienced it in my own systems
  113. [20:16:45] <DE> yeh go ahead
  114. [20:16:46] <DE> Fornax
  115. [20:16:51] <DE> Im not stopping anyone
  116. [20:16:57] <Fornax> i'm dry on questions
  117. [20:17:03] <uvs> ...
  118. [20:17:03] <SallyTheButcher> don't get me wrong councils can be great for many things
  119. [20:17:07] <gen_applejack> can we ask if sally even lift
  120. [20:17:08] <StackOverflow> council is unnecessary
  121. [20:17:18] <StackOverflow> at least in the way it's being used now
  122. [20:17:20] <DE> StackOverflow yes, but we lack a better system.
  123. [20:17:25] <DE> so we have to make do
  124. [20:17:48] <Frosty> Can I ask one off topic question quickly?
  125. [20:17:48] <Silnius> I guess if clan is active and can get members, and play on aos often, he can have a section if he wants
  126. [20:17:54] <SallyTheButcher> agreed and it's impressive how you have kept it running by refining etc
  127. [20:17:59] <DE> Frosty if it's not related to clans, no
  128. [20:18:04] <Frosty> ah ok
  129. [20:18:07] <Frosty> I'll wait
  130. [20:18:23] <DE> >kept it running
  131. [20:18:30] <DE> we are changing it becuase it is broken xD
  132. [20:18:31] <StackOverflow> it's come to a halt
  133. [20:18:49] <StackOverflow> nobody wants to manage the clan section, it's broken and unmoderated
  134. [20:18:55] <DE> well (DE gets on his high horse) iv been pudhing them since the councils creation to change it or ditch it.
  135. [20:18:55] <StackOverflow> doesn't scale at all
  136. [20:18:56] <Fornax> true
  137. [20:18:57] <SallyTheButcher> Sure going forwards to keep the clans fresh and healthy we need to look at what can be done to encourage as many competitive sized clans as possible.
  138. [20:19:01] <DE> pushing them*
  139. [20:19:03] <SallyTheButcher> be them small or massive
  140. [20:19:30] <DE> SallyTheButcher competitive clans so rare in aos, due to the massive failure rate of the clans
  141. [20:19:39] <DE> they just don't survive
  142. [20:19:47] <DE> cureently there are only like 3-4 decent clans.
  143. [20:19:49] <SallyTheButcher> Well I am sure we can work towards changing that
  144. [20:19:54] <Silnius> Very hard to found members on aos
  145. [20:19:58] <Silnius> for clan
  146. [20:20:00] <SallyTheButcher> I noticed
  147. [20:20:02] <Silnius> Its not like some other games
  148. [20:20:06] <Tin-> How do you plan to change that sally?
  149. [20:20:12] <tiki> de i think there would be more if there was some sort of match system
  150. [20:20:19] <DE> well, how WOULD you go about changing that SallyTheButcher? :>
  151. [20:20:20] <SallyTheButcher> So let's talk about what you would want in an ideal world
  152. [20:20:27] <DE> tiki quite possibly
  153. [20:20:36] <SallyTheButcher> OK hang on let me answer that
  154. [20:20:47] <DE> SallyTheButcher ranking systme, match system ,leader boards. give people a reason to form a competitive team
  155. [20:20:57] <SallyTheButcher> I think there are basic things to work towards getting such as a ladder
  156. [20:21:07] <SallyTheButcher> clan in game identification
  157. [20:21:19] <SallyTheButcher> Visibility and promotion of clans
  158. [20:21:24] <SallyTheButcher> front page stuff
  159. [20:21:24] <DE> built in ID's you mean? not jsut adding a tag to the name.
  160. [20:21:30] <SallyTheButcher> uhuh
  161. [20:21:32] <DE> ah
  162. [20:21:39] <uvs> All of this points away from a forum and more towards a community type website
  163. [20:21:41] <danhezee> clan in game identification exist how would you improve on it SallyTheButcher
  164. [20:21:41] <Tin-> Promotions?
  165. [20:21:41] <SallyTheButcher> Or some other identifier
  166. [20:21:43] <uvs> And Im all for it
  167. [20:21:58] <DE> [19:21] <@uvs> All of this points away from a forum and more towards a community type website
  168. [20:21:59] <Tin-> How about logins with forum accounts?
  169. [20:22:00] <SneakyMobile> A ladder would be perfect.
  170. [20:22:01] <Silnius> It will be hard to put on game
  171. [20:22:03] <DE> pretty much uvs
  172. [20:22:08] <Fornax> What if, there is some sort of a way to make clan events(clan vs forum...stuff like that) allot easier for the clans.
  173. [20:22:09] <SallyTheButcher> danhezee: you mean changing your name to [Clan]?
  174. [20:22:15] <danhezee> yes
  175. [20:22:31] <danhezee> what do you suggest to improve on that system
  176. [20:23:09] <Fornax> Like if there is a certain groupe of people that volounteer to help organize those events.
  177. [20:23:13] <DE> well currently you impersonate a clan. if the tag was given by a forum linked system that checked if you are in the clan or not..
  178. [20:23:18] <SallyTheButcher> I would add something that wasn't attached to your name for one, be it a typical prefix, bespoke skins identies, or symbols
  179. [20:23:39] <SallyTheButcher> or any other cool idea someone suggests and is possible
  180. [20:23:42] <danhezee> I think the clan council should shift toward managing and organizing these events
  181. [20:23:50] <Fornax> [20:22] <+Fornax> What if, there is some sort of a way to make clan events(clan vs forum...stuff like that) allot easier for the clans.
  182. [20:24:00] <Fornax> [20:23] <+Fornax> Like if there is a certain groupe of people that volounteer to help organize those events.
  183. [20:24:26] <SallyTheButcher> Oh I think we could do a lot to boost recruitment, this is what I mean by promotion, I want to promote the recognised clans
  184. [20:24:39] *** james___ ( has joined #thebastion
  185. [20:24:40] <StackOverflow> what about the unrecognized ones
  186. [20:24:43] <SneakyMobile> Free servers for clan matches plox
  187. [20:24:48] <StackOverflow> those are the ones that need recognition
  188. [20:24:48] <SallyTheButcher> I want to help those grow
  189. [20:24:50] <DE> SallyTheButcher, out of itnrest though. how would you promote a prominent clan, like the bastion?
  190. [20:24:52] <StackOverflow> or a popularity boost rather
  191. [20:24:55] <DE> intrest* gah excuse me
  192. [20:25:07] <Tin-> <@DE> SallyTheButcher, out of itnrest though. how would you promote a prominent clan, like the bastion?
  193. [20:25:16] <SallyTheButcher> by making sure they have guides, tips tutorials, just generally help
  194. [20:25:18] *** Q sets mode: +l 37
  195. [20:25:36] <tiki> what does that mean?
  196. [20:25:41] *** Kiwaka`AFK is now known as Kiwaka`
  197. [20:25:45] <Fornax> [20:23] <+Fornax> Like if there is a certain groupe of people that volounteer to help organize those events*
  198. [20:26:25] <Silnius> wb Kiwaka`
  199. [20:26:40] <Tin-> Well, I am currently managing Clan Assistance. That can connect with event based stuff.
  200. [20:26:47] <SallyTheButcher> DE: I would do something like liaise with you to know what sort of promotion you needed, and maybe get your guys to make their own assets if that was something you had skills for. I would then run a campaign of some sort to spotlight the clan and show off what it has to offer via a variety of platforms
  201. [20:27:15] <SallyTheButcher> (sorry I am a slow at typing)
  202. [20:27:30] <DE> np, yeh okay.
  203. [20:27:38] <DE> Seems intresting
  204. [20:27:38] <Fornax> Umm.
  205. [20:27:52] <Fornax> What if clan moderatoring has certain levels
  206. [20:28:04] <DE> for complications. don't go there
  207. [20:28:05] <DE> trust me
  208. [20:28:16] <Fornax> like clan leader has the biggest moderator provelages in the clan
  209. [20:28:39] <SallyTheButcher> If there were enough people interested, we could make clan events officer a role, or maybe each clan had a few of those roles to make sure there are specialists dedicated to creating events
  210. [20:29:00] <Fornax> yup
  211. [20:29:06] <DE> SallyTheButcher, so with the whole clan shake up system. make it all a bit more similar to the call of duty clans?
  212. [20:29:07] <DE> yeh?
  213. [20:29:34] <Fornax> Tin- mentioned "Clan Assistance" what do you think about that SallyTheButcher?
  214. [20:30:11] <Fornax>
  215. 6833
  216. [20:30:15] *** james____ (webchat@ has joined #thebastion
  217. [20:30:17] <SallyTheButcher> I wouldn't want to copy as it wouldn't be right for Ace, we want a system bespoke for Ace, but yes we could take a few elements from systems like CoD etc
  218. [20:30:33] *** gen_applejack was kicked by EldredChandler (gen_applejack)
  219. [20:30:37] *** gen_applejack (webchat@ has joined #thebastion
  220. [20:30:41] <DE> EldredChandler?
  221. [20:30:56] <EldredChandler> c&ping
  222. [20:31:06] *** Quits: james___ ( (Ping timeout)
  223. [20:31:24] <DE> ah
  224. [20:31:26] *** Skynet- ( has joined #thebastion
  225. [20:31:26] *** Q sets mode: +v Skynet-
  226. [20:31:41] <DE> TheGrandmaster StackOverflow danhezee anything to add to sallys point? aks her?
  227. [20:31:54] <DE> ask*
  228. [20:31:55] <Fornax> [20:29] <+Fornax> Tin- mentioned "Clan Assistance" what do you think about that SallyTheButcher?
  229. [20:31:55] <Fornax> [20:30] <+Fornax>
  230. 6833
  231. [20:31:56] <SallyTheButcher> Fornax: That's definitely the right type of thinking
  232. [20:31:57] <Skynet-> TheGrandmaster:
  233. [20:32:00] *** EldredChandler sets mode: -b+b *!*@ *!*@108.174.51.*
  234. [20:32:00] *** james____ was kicked by Q (Banned.)
  235. [20:32:08] <EldredChandler> iirc rambo
  236. [20:32:23] <StackOverflow> not really
  237. [20:32:26] <danhezee> well not much was actually said
  238. [20:32:26] <DE> EldredChandler oh i didnt even notice that, ty
  239. [20:32:31] <danhezee> so i cant really build on it
  240. [20:32:42] <StackOverflow> ^
  241. [20:32:49] <SallyTheButcher> In my opinion people already involved in clans have nothing to lose and everything to gain by helping others develop their own clans as it means more clans being successful and more competition
  242. [20:33:27] <StackOverflow> do you expect to continue using the forums in their current state with all of this clan discussion?
  243. [20:33:28] <TheGrandmaster> I think that the new ideas that dan posted/mumble peeps drafted seems pretty good
  244. [20:33:37] <Tin-> Yeah. Well, what have you said about moderators on clans?
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