Morality and Ethics for the Information Age

a guest Feb 28th, 2012 127 Never
Not a member of Pastebin yet? Sign Up, it unlocks many cool features!
  1. (E-mail address not verified) says (10:44 PM):
  2.  naggers
  3. Eldrad says (10:45 PM):
  4.  sanders would you pay 3000 dollars for a pound of weed
  5. Barre says (10:45 PM):
  6.  sndrs llps og
  7.  and of course he would
  8.  he is a dumb druggie
  9. (E-mail address not verified) says (10:48 PM):
  10.  ye mang i pay whatever it takes to get the dro
  11. Eldrad says (10:48 PM):
  12.  sanders, how much would you pay for one pound of weed
  13. Barre says (10:48 PM):
  14.  he just told you
  15. Eldrad says (10:48 PM):
  16.  no he really didnt
  17. (E-mail address not verified) says (10:48 PM):
  18.  420 dollars
  19.  smoke weed erry day
  20. Eldrad says (10:48 PM):
  21.  I'm bein' serious.
  22.  What's the going rate.
  23. Barre says (10:48 PM):
  24.  but he said
  25. Eldrad says (10:49 PM):
  26.  Where you live.
  27. Barre says (10:49 PM):
  28.  that he'll pay whatever they ask
  29. (E-mail address not verified) says (10:49 PM):
  30.  different weed has different prices
  31.  shitty weed
  32.  also known as mids
  33. Eldrad says (10:49 PM):
  34.  white widow
  35.  we're discussing white widow
  36.  this kid is asking for 3000 for a pound of it
  37. (E-mail address not verified) says (10:50 PM):
  38.  hmm
  39. Barre says (10:50 PM):
  40.  mant
  41.  are you a druggie as well?
  42. Eldrad says (10:50 PM):
  43.  no
  44. (E-mail address not verified) says (10:50 PM):
  45.  yeah that sounds about right
  46. Barre says (10:50 PM):
  47.  we need to make mantdrg
  48. Eldrad says (10:50 PM):
  49.  wow, really?
  50. (E-mail address not verified) says (10:50 PM):
  51.  yes
  52. Eldrad says (10:50 PM):
  53.  the fuck
  54. (E-mail address not verified) says (10:50 PM):
  55.  that's high grade weed
  56. Eldrad says (10:50 PM):
  57.  stupid druggies
  58. (E-mail address not verified) says (10:50 PM):
  59.  which people buy by the gram
  60. Eldrad says (10:50 PM):
  61.  who'd spend that much money on that
  62. (E-mail address not verified) says (10:50 PM):
  63.  around here stuff like that sells for $20 a gram
  64. Barre says (10:50 PM):
  65.  druggies
  66. Barre says (10:51 PM):
  67.  duh
  68. (E-mail address not verified) says (10:51 PM):
  69.  dude
  70.  you don't need a fucking pound of weed
  71.  unless you're trying to sell it
  72. Eldrad says (10:51 PM):
  73.  >twenty dollars for a gram
  74.  ALL OF THIS
  76. (E-mail address not verified) says (10:51 PM):
  77.  1 gram is good for a few days
  78. Barre says (10:51 PM):
  79.  ye mant
  80. (E-mail address not verified) says (10:51 PM):
  81.  depending on how often you like to get high
  82. Barre says (10:51 PM):
  83.  legalize and tax it
  84.  420 save ecenomoy and smoke weed
  85. Eldrad says (10:51 PM):
  86.  this kid says he has, like, 75000 dollars worth of it
  87.  27 or so pounds
  88. (E-mail address not verified) says (10:51 PM):
  89.  well he's probably full of shit
  90. Eldrad says (10:51 PM):
  91.  nobody needs that much weed
  92. (E-mail address not verified) says (10:52 PM):
  93.  but
  94.  $3000 a pound sounds legit
  95. Eldrad says (10:52 PM):
  96.  fuckin stupi
  97.  d
  98. (E-mail address not verified) says (10:52 PM):
  99.  dude its not
  100. Eldrad says (10:52 PM):
  101.  like hell it isnt
  102. (E-mail address not verified) says (10:52 PM):
  103.  your average druggie
  104. Eldrad says (10:52 PM):
  105.  is pathetic
  106.  and filthy
  107. (E-mail address not verified) says (10:52 PM):
  108.  is not going to be like "hum today i want to buy a pound of weed"
  109. Eldrad says (10:52 PM):
  110.  looking for his next fix
  111.  wasting money on the stupidest shit
  112. (E-mail address not verified) says (10:52 PM):
  113.  nobody buys anything more than a quarter ounce
  114. (E-mail address not verified) says (10:53 PM):
  115.  unless they are trying to re-sell it for profit
  116.  and if you're talking about white widow
  117.  most people will buy 1 gram at a time
  118.  have you ever smoked weed
  119. Eldrad says (10:53 PM):
  120.  wait then
  121.  if he has 27 pounds
  122. Eldrad says (10:54 PM):
  123.  and people buy per gram
  124. (E-mail address not verified) says (10:54 PM):
  125.  he's selling it by the poudn
  126. Eldrad says (10:54 PM):
  127.  ...doesn't that mean he's sinking his own buisness?
  128. (E-mail address not verified) says (10:54 PM):
  129.  or at least that's what he's claiming
  130. Eldrad says (10:54 PM):
  131.  hes throwing an immense amount of supply into the market
  132.  but he wants prices to stay the same
  133. (E-mail address not verified) says (10:54 PM):
  134.  He is basically claiming that he buys almost directly from the growers
  135. Eldrad says (10:54 PM):
  136.  no, hes growing it himself
  137. (E-mail address not verified) says (10:54 PM):
  138.  oh
  139.  i dont understand how you mean
  140. (E-mail address not verified) says (10:55 PM):
  141.  how is he sinking his own business
  142. Eldrad says (10:55 PM):
  143.  he has a tremendous supply
  144.  but he expects prices to stay the same
  145. (E-mail address not verified) says (10:55 PM):
  146.  no no no
  147.  $20 a gram
  148.  is $9000 a pound
  149. Eldrad says (10:55 PM):
  150.  if he sells his supply, ignoring the fact that he'll get more, he'll lower the price of it because there's so much in circulation
  151. (E-mail address not verified) says (10:55 PM):
  152.  he is selling for $3000 a pound
  153. (E-mail address not verified) says (10:56 PM):
  154.  it doesnt really work that way the prices aren't going to react to changes in supply that quickly
  155.  the weed market is not very elastic at all
  156. (E-mail address not verified) says (10:58 PM):
  157.  besides with that large of a product
  158.  his stuff is not going to stay local
  159. Barre says (10:58 PM):
  160.  druggie pls go
  161. (E-mail address not verified) says (10:58 PM):
  162.  ralfdrg
  163. Barre says (10:58 PM):
  164.  noralph
  165. (E-mail address not verified) says (11:00 PM):
  166.  manticus have you ever smoked weed
  167.  i want to know
  168. Barre says (11:00 PM):
  169.  yes
  170.  during the mw3 free weekend
  171. Barre says (11:01 PM):
  172.  he smoked weed while doing 360 quickscopes
  173. (E-mail address not verified) says (11:02 PM):
  174.  cool
  175.  sadsand
  176. Barre says (11:02 PM):
  177.  why are you sad?
  178. (E-mail address not verified) says (11:02 PM):
  179.  too much drgs
  180. Barre says (11:02 PM):
  181.  Aren't you happy that you get more druggie friends?
  182. Barre says (11:03 PM):
  183.  now you have joc, herc and mant
  184.  druggie bros 4lyfe
  185. (E-mail address not verified) says (11:03 PM):
  186.  cool
  187.  bros
  188.  4 lyfe
  189. (E-mail address not verified) says (11:04 PM):
  190.  also i still think whoever you're talking to is full of shit
  191.  because
  192.  you referred to him as "kid"
  193.  and
  194.  he would not be telling you any of this shit if it were true
  195. Eldrad says (11:04 PM):
  196.  >me
  197.  >a druggy
  198. Eldrad says (11:05 PM):
  199.  Dude, WHAT
  200. Barre says (11:05 PM):
  201.  ye mant
  202. (E-mail address not verified) says (11:05 PM):
  203.  because he could get a fuckload of jail time
  204. Barre says (11:05 PM):
  205.  u druggie now
  206. Eldrad says (11:05 PM):
  207.  I hate drugs to the point that I find CAFFINE immoral
  208.  you piece of shit i'll fucking end you
  209. Barre says (11:05 PM):
  210.  poor mant
  211.  he hasn't gotten his fix yet
  212.  so hostile
  213.  ;_;
  214. Eldrad says (11:05 PM):
  215.  1v1 right now
  216.  1v1
  217.  1v1
  218.  1v1
  219.  1v1
  220.  1v1
  221. Barre says (11:06 PM):
  222.  druggie pls go
  223. Eldrad says (11:06 PM):
  224.  no i've never smoked weed because i dont hate myself
  225. (E-mail address not verified) says (11:06 PM):
  226.  i used to be like you
  227. Eldrad says (11:06 PM):
  228.  I still have morality and self-respect
  229. (E-mail address not verified) says (11:06 PM):
  230.  then i took a bong rip
  231. Eldrad says (11:06 PM):
  232.  a joint to the knee
  233.  xD
  234. (E-mail address not verified) says (11:06 PM):
  235.  and it was awesome
  236. (E-mail address not verified) says (11:07 PM):
  237.  >smoking weed is immoral
  238.  justify this claim
  239.  pls
  240. Eldrad says (11:07 PM):
  241.  What is the ultimate good in the universe.
  242. (E-mail address not verified) says (11:07 PM):
  243.  that's highly debatable
  244. Eldrad says (11:07 PM):
  245.  No, it isn't.
  246. (E-mail address not verified) says (11:08 PM):
  247.  what are you going to say
  248.  is the ultimate good in the universe
  249. Eldrad says (11:08 PM):
  250.  Morality is arbitrary, and meaningless
  251.  There is no wrong answer.
  252.  So, I'll ask again. What is the ultimate good in the universe?
  253. (E-mail address not verified) says (11:08 PM):
  254.  i don't have an answer to that question
  255.  because whatever I respond with, I wont be able to justify
  256.  because I havent thought on the issue
  257. Eldrad says (11:08 PM):
  258.  I won't scrutinize you.
  259. (E-mail address not verified) says (11:09 PM):
  260.  well socrates thought the ultimate good in the universe was happiness
  261.  if I remember my PHIL 1000 class correctly
  262. Eldrad says (11:09 PM):
  263.  No, you're thinking of Hedon.
  264.  He founded the school of Hedonism, which believes Pleasure and Happiness are the ultimate good.
  265. Eldrad says (11:10 PM):
  266.  For hedonists, as long as you're happy, you're well... be that high on your next fix, or after sex after countless times.
  267. (E-mail address not verified) says (11:10 PM):
  268.  okay well
  269.  continue
  270.  obviously you have some way of connecting this train of thought to the morality of using drugs
  271. Eldrad says (11:10 PM):
  272.  I am a stoic. I believe the ultimate good in the universe is thinking.
  273. (E-mail address not verified) says (11:10 PM):
  274.  okay
  275. Eldrad says (11:11 PM):
  276.  Anything that interferes with thinking is therefore immoral. You follow?
  277. (E-mail address not verified) says (11:11 PM):
  278.  yes
  279.  if
  280. Eldrad says (11:11 PM):
  281.  If you are drunk, thinking is more challenging, and you cannot do it in the classical sense. Even your motor skills fade, and so does your judgment.
  282. (E-mail address not verified) says (11:11 PM):
  283.  you define a moral act as something which provides or furthers the ultimate good
  284. Eldrad says (11:11 PM):
  285.  Therefore, drunkness is immoral.
  286. (E-mail address not verified) says (11:12 PM):
  287.  and an immoral act is something which hinders the ultimate good or prevents it
  288.  okay
  289.  now that we've got some boundaries
  290. Eldrad says (11:13 PM):
  291.  Well, you kinda have a moral scale. On the left, evil, the right, good.
  292. (E-mail address not verified) says (11:13 PM):
  293.  but can you make a connection between smoking weed and hindering of thinking?
  294.  what about testimony from users of marijuana that say that it actually opens your mind?
  295. Eldrad says (11:14 PM):
  296.  It changes how you think. Therefore, it is immoral.
  297.  I phrased that poorly.
  298. (E-mail address not verified) says (11:14 PM):
  299.  yes
  300.  non sequitor; it does not follow
  301. Eldrad says (11:14 PM):
  302.  It... LITERALLY changes how you think, unlike an idea.
  303. (E-mail address not verified) says (11:15 PM):
  304.  hrm
  305.  I don't see how that makes it immoral
  306.  because
  307.  just because something has changed
  308. (E-mail address not verified) says (11:16 PM):
  309.  does not mean it is worse than it was before
  310.  by the way
  311.  I took a class on arguments
  312.  so
  313.  that's why I'm going at this in such a systematic fasion
  314.  *fashion
  315. (E-mail address not verified) says (11:17 PM):
  316.  i'm used to philosophical discussions where every statement is justified in some way
  317. Kori says (11:17 PM):
  318.  changing is not necessarily taking away or impairing
  319.  it's just different
  320. Eldrad says (11:18 PM):
  321.  If marijuana is a miracle drug that enhances so well, then, why don't more people use it, or why is it illegal?
  322. Kori says (11:18 PM):
  323.  dunno
  324.  it's never been shown to actually cause harm
  325.  it has plenty of medicinal purposes
  326. Eldrad says (11:18 PM):
  327.  But it has long-term memory damage.
  328. Kori says (11:18 PM):
  329.  sources pls
  330. Kori says (11:19 PM):
  331.  if this is the monkey brain cell killing thing that's bullshit
  332. (E-mail address not verified) says (11:19 PM):
  333.  i can testify that it affects memory
  334. Kori says (11:19 PM):
  335.  okay
  336. (E-mail address not verified) says (11:19 PM):
  337.  from personal experience
  338. Eldrad says (11:19 PM):
  339.  At it's best, Marijuana is like... horseblinders. They focus you.
  340. Kori says (11:19 PM):
  341.  What's it like?
  342. Kori says (11:20 PM):
  343.  Like small gaps in your memory, or things that are different from what happened?
  344. Eldrad says (11:20 PM):
  345.  That is a fundamental change in thinking. It's an entire scope change that can drastically change judgment.
  346.  Therefore, it is immoral.
  347. (E-mail address not verified) says (11:20 PM):
  348.  I stopped smoking for about 3 or 4 months
  349.  recently started smoking again and lately I will frequently forget where i put things that I had in my hand not 5 minutes ago
  350. Kori says (11:21 PM):
  351.  and this is new?
  352.  because i do that normally sometimes
  353. (E-mail address not verified) says (11:21 PM):
  354.  I.E. i'll put a guitar pick down, go do something else, come back and be like "WHERE THE FUCK DID I PUT THAT"
  355.  well it's happening a lot more often than it used
  356. Kori says (11:21 PM):
  357.  ah
  358.  how often do you smoke?
  359. (E-mail address not verified) says (11:21 PM):
  360.  so manticus
  361. (E-mail address not verified) says (11:22 PM):
  362.  can I paraphrase your argument thusly:
  363.  you are essentially saying that marijuana clouds your thinking, not allowing your thoughts to reach their full potential?
  364. Eldrad says (11:22 PM):
  365.  No.
  366. (E-mail address not verified) says (11:22 PM):
  367.  i'll get about four or five days out of the wee
  368. (E-mail address not verified) says (11:23 PM):
  369.  *high
  370. Eldrad says (11:23 PM):
  371.  Marijuana is immoral on the basis that it A) Interferes with judgment B) Alters the processes of the mind and brain C) Has long term effects that interfere with the mind
  372. (E-mail address not verified) says (11:24 PM):
  373.  okay
  374. Eldrad says (11:24 PM):
  375.  Or, that is, smoking marijuana. Nothing immoral about a plant existing.
  376. (E-mail address not verified) says (11:24 PM):
  377.  that's a pretty solid philosophical position
  378. Kori says (11:24 PM):
  379.  it is
  380. (E-mail address not verified) says (11:24 PM):
  381.  its not an argument that I subscribe to, though
  382. (E-mail address not verified) says (11:25 PM):
  383.  because I disagree with your foundation of the ultimate good
  384.  and the basis of morality
  385. Eldrad says (11:25 PM):
  386.  No matter how much I don't want it to be, morality really does mean nothing.
  387.  It's so arbitrary and wavers with culture.
  388. (E-mail address not verified) says (11:26 PM):
  389.  personal morality is important
  390.  such that it's important that you can believe that you yourself are a moral person
  391. (E-mail address not verified) says (11:27 PM):
  392.  and if you take that to a global scale, with each person trying to act in a moral way
  393.  it seems like it would create an overall moral society
  394. (E-mail address not verified) says (11:28 PM):
  395.  the only issue with that is each person has a different view on morality
  396.  sorry, i'm just thinking out loud at this point
  397. Kori says (11:28 PM):
  398.  Well, here in what I suppose we'd call 1st world countries, there are certain things that everybody can agree is immoral
  399. Kori says (11:29 PM):
  400.  Or nearly everybody
  401.  On a global scale, that morality is more of a between cultures thing
  402. Eldrad says (11:29 PM):
  403.  I think everyone can agree that everyone is immoral.
  404. Kori says (11:29 PM):
  405.  only you can make the entire world to be immoral, mant
  406.  only you
  407.  ehue
  408. (E-mail address not verified) says (11:30 PM):
  409.  I disagree
  410.  with you manticus
  411. Eldrad says (11:30 PM):
  412.  I have only met two people that I could ever objectively call moral and good people
  413.  One of them fucked my girlfriend.
  414.  So that whittles the list down to one.
  415. Kori says (11:30 PM):
  416.  >objectively call moral and good
  417. Kori says (11:31 PM):
  418.  the objectively doesn't really belong there
  419. Eldrad says (11:31 PM):
  420.  Morality is subjective, moral analysis is not.
  421. Kori says (11:31 PM):
  422.  By our standards, they had good morals
  423.  And lived by good morals
  424. Kori says (11:32 PM):
  425.  A moral analysis and saying that somebody has good morals are different, I'd say
  426. Kori says (11:33 PM):
  427.  If a moral analysis is always objective, that is
  428. (E-mail address not verified) says (11:34 PM):
  429.  meh
  430.  i wish that we were having this conversation a year ago
  431.  when I was still taking an ethics class
  432. Kori says (11:35 PM):
  433.  well, i know i learned stuff today
  434. (E-mail address not verified) says (11:35 PM):
  435.  cause i cant remember shit from that class
  436. Kori says (11:35 PM):
  437.  and that makes me feel good about myself
  438. (E-mail address not verified) says (11:35 PM):
  439.  oh wait
  440.  I have my ethics textbook right here
  441. (E-mail address not verified) says (11:36 PM):
  442.  okay so
  443.  let's take a look at this particular philosophy
  444. (E-mail address not verified) says (11:37 PM):
  445.  Emmanuel Kant's categorical imperative
  446.  "Act only from moral rules that you can at the same time will to be universal moral laws."
  447. Kori says (11:38 PM):
  448.  Well, anybody can will their morals to be universal, but it won't fit into every culture
  449. Eldrad says (11:38 PM):
  450.  There is no such thing as a universal morality
  451. (E-mail address not verified) says (11:38 PM):
  452.  that's not what its saying
  453.  Here's an example provided from the textbook
  454. Eldrad says (11:39 PM):
  455.  I wish I had a morality textbook. All I have is...
  456. (E-mail address not verified) says (11:39 PM):
  457.  Kant poses the problem of an individual in a difficult situation who must decide if he will make a promise with the intention of later breaking it. The translation of this moral rule could be "A person may make a false promise when that is the only way to escape a difficult situation."
  458. Eldrad says (11:39 PM):
  459.  Neitzches (oh god) Genealogy, and Plato's Republic
  460. (E-mail address not verified) says (11:40 PM):
  461.  To evaluate this moral rule, we universalize it. What would happen if everybody in extreme circumstances made false promises? If that were the case, nobody would believe promises, and it would be impossible for our individual in distress to make a promise that anyone believed. The moral rule self-destructs when we try to make it a universal law. Therefore, it is wrong for a person in distress to make a promise with the intention of breaking it.
  462. (E-mail address not verified) says (11:42 PM):
  463.  Kant is saying that simply willing that our moral rule become a universal law produces a logical contradiction.
  464. Kori says (11:42 PM):
  465.  I see
  466. (E-mail address not verified) says (11:43 PM):
  467.  I'm having trouble relating this to drug use, though
  468. Kori says (11:44 PM):
  469.  I'm having trouble thinking up something that could make this okay in a 'situational, use your own judgment' kind of way
  470. (E-mail address not verified) says (11:44 PM):
  471.  but then again, there's nothing that says one has to subscribe to this particular formulation of morality, anyway
  472. Kori says (11:44 PM):
  473.  no, of course not
  474. Kori says (11:45 PM):
  475.  I still adhere to the idea that this is okay in circumstances where you've thought of the consequences of keeping or breaking the promise
  476.  And can use your own judgment properly
  477. Eldrad says (11:45 PM):
  478.  Breaking a promise is never morally acceptable because that devalues your word
  479. Kori says (11:46 PM):
  480.  But then how can I see any promise as true when I have to trust other people's judgment
  481. Eldrad says (11:46 PM):
  482.  If you lie, and are caught in the lie, it becomes harder to tell the truth
  483. Kori says (11:46 PM):
  484.  On something that's subjective
  485. Eldrad says (11:46 PM):
  486.  Because you have lied in the past.
  487. Kori says (11:46 PM):
  488.  That's true
  489.  Telling the truth is much harder than lying
  490.  But you save yourself a lot of trouble farther on
  491. Kori says (11:47 PM):
  492.  this, i speak from experience
  493. Barre says (11:47 PM):
  494.  what the hell are you talking about?
  495. Kori says (11:48 PM):
  496.  we're discussing morality
  497. Barre says (11:48 PM):
  498.  telling the truth doesn't become any harder
  499. Kori says (11:48 PM):
  500.  What
  501. Kori says (11:49 PM):
  502.  Yes it does
  503. Eldrad says (11:49 PM):
  504.  >telling the truth doesnt become harder
  505.  how in the heck can you figure
  506. (E-mail address not verified) says (11:50 PM):
  507.  okay here's a nugget to chew
  508.  this goes back to
  509.  Eldrad Gulcasa says (2:25 AM)
  510. It's so arbitrary and wavers with culture.
  511. Kori says (11:51 PM):
  512.  err
  513.  more like situational?
  514.  in terms of telling the truth and whether it becomes harder
  515. (E-mail address not verified) says (11:52 PM):
  516.  You are riding in a car driven by a close friend. He hits a pedestrian. You know he was going at least 25 miles per hour in an area of the city where the maximum allowed speed is 20 miles per hour. There are no witnesses other than you. His lawyer says that if you testify under oath that he was driving only 20 miles per hour, you will save him from serious consequences.
  517.  What right has your friend to expect you to protect him?
  519. Kori says (11:52 PM):
  520.  He really doesn't have a right
  521. (E-mail address not verified) says (11:52 PM):
  522.  1. My friend has a definite right as a friend to expect me to testify to the lower speed.
  523.  2. He has some right as a friend to expect me to testify to the lower speed.
  524.  3. He has no right as a friend to expect me to testify to the lower speed.
  525. Kori says (11:53 PM):
  526.  as equals, he doesn't have a right to expect things from me
  527.  but mutual respect etc etc
  528. Eldrad says (11:53 PM):
  529.  Wait, so he hits the pedestrian and keeps going?
  530. Kori says (11:54 PM):
  531.  I assume since he's in court he didn't just drive away
  532.  I don't think I'd have friends that hit people and drive away
  533. (E-mail address not verified) says (11:54 PM):
  534.  About 90 percent of Norwegians would not testify to the lower speed and do not believe that the person's friend has a definite right to expect help. In contrast, only about 10 percent of Yugoslavians feel the same way. About three-quarters of Americans and Canadians agree witht he dominant Norwegian view, but Mexicans are fairly evenly divided.
  535.  This is all taken verbatim from my textbook
  536. Kori says (11:55 PM):
  537.  norway is in scandinavia
  538.  scandinavia is cool
  539. Eldrad says (11:55 PM):
  540.  He has some right to expect it, but he doesn't have the rigorous system of morality I does. I would never lie.
  541. Kori says (11:56 PM):
  542.  unless he's done something like this for me in the past
  543.  I don't think I could lie for him
  544.  because I would never expect him to do the same for me
  545. Eldrad says (11:57 PM):
  546.  whats that quote for meditations
  547. (E-mail address not verified) says (11:57 PM):
  548.  huh
  549. Kori says (11:57 PM):
  550.  quote for meditations?
  551. Eldrad says (11:57 PM):
  552.  from meditations
  553. (E-mail address not verified) says (11:57 PM):
  554.  i dunno
  555. Kori says (11:58 PM):
  556.  if that's a book, I've never read it
  557. Eldrad says (11:58 PM):
  558.  When you wake up in the morning, tell yourself: The people I deal with today will be meddling, ungrateful, arrogant, dishonest, jealous, and surly.
  559. Kori says (11:58 PM):
  560.  but then don't i become like them
  561. Eldrad says (11:58 PM):
  562.  I would never expect anyone to be as good as me.
  563. Kori says (11:59 PM):
  564.  Well, I mean, like I said, if I'd done something like this for him before, I'd expect him to do it for me, and vice versa
  565.  though I probably wouldn't be the first to do it for him
  566. (E-mail address not verified) says (11:59 PM):
  567.  okay here comes another scenario
  568.  gonna take a second to type up
  569. Eldrad says (11:59 PM):
  570.  no fuck that
  571.  instead consider this
  572.  A cucumber is bitter. Throw it away. There are briars in the road. Turn aside from them. This is enough. Do not add, "And why were such things made in the world?"
  573. (E-mail address not verified) says (12:00 AM):
  574.  that's interesting
  575. Kori says (12:00 AM):
  576.  that's deep
  577. (E-mail address not verified) says (12:00 AM):
  578.  where is that from
  579. Eldrad says (12:00 AM):
  580.  the philosopher king's works
  581. Kori says (12:00 AM):
  582.  actually deep
  583. Eldrad says (12:01 AM):
  584.  Meditations by Marcus Aurelius
  585.  its what made me decide to be a stoic
  586. Kori says (12:01 AM):
  587.  i'll have to read this
  588. (E-mail address not verified) says (12:01 AM):
  589.  well I disagree with it
  590.  because I believe in the importance of knowledge
  591.  so I would attempt to seek out the answer to that question posed at the end
  592. Eldrad says (12:02 AM):
  593.  I believe in the importance of knowledge, too, but Aurelius speaks not of ignorance but of simplicity.
  594.  You don't need to know that briars hurt to touch because they have thorns.
  595.  All you need to know is briars hurt to touch.
  596. Kori says (12:02 AM):
  597.  but curiosity is what drives us
  598.  without curiosity
  599. Kori says (12:03 AM):
  600.  we are nothing
  601.  nothing
  602.  we're empty shells frozen at a certain point in time, repeating the same godawful things over and over again
  603. Barre says (12:03 AM):
  604.  neat
  605. Eldrad says (12:03 AM):
  606.  Do you really want to keep burning your hand over and over and over until you finally understand why stoves are hot?
  607. Kori says (12:03 AM):
  608.  i know the stove is hot
  609. Eldrad says (12:04 AM):
  610.  Then why keep touching it?
  611. Kori says (12:04 AM):
  612.  now i want to understand why the stove is hot
  613. (E-mail address not verified) says (12:04 AM):
  614.  understanding why the stove is hot does not require you to touch it
  615. Kori says (12:04 AM):
  616.  I don't need to touch it
  617. Barre says (12:04 AM):
  618.  mantpun
  619. Eldrad says (12:04 AM):
  620.  The briars are symbolic of evil, of course. You can't truly understand why evil is evil.
  621. (E-mail address not verified) says (12:04 AM):
  622.  It seems a bit ignorant to me
  623. Kori says (12:04 AM):
  624.  but we can try
  625. Kori says (12:05 AM):
  626.  and we can form opinions
  627.  and gather knowledge
  628. Eldrad says (12:05 AM):
  629.  You're trying to seek out knowledge beyond you, so to speak.
  630. (E-mail address not verified) says (12:05 AM):
  631.  The knowledge that briars hurt to touch because they have thorns is more useful than the knowledge that briars hurt to touch
  632.  because when you experience something new with thorns, you already know that it hurts to touch
  633. Disambi says (12:05 AM):
  634.  Just because we don't know now, doesn't mean it's impossible to know.
  635. (E-mail address not verified) says (12:05 AM):
  636.  without having to touch it again
  637. Eldrad says (12:05 AM):
  638.  Aurelius encourages humbleness, humility, simplicity. You don't need to know why something is wrong to know it is wrong, and you don't need to know why to not do wrong.
  639. Disambi says (12:05 AM):
  640.  It's only impossible if you stop trying to.
  641. Kori says (12:05 AM):
  642.  ^
  643. Kori says (12:06 AM):
  644.  Was thinking of a way to say that
  645.  as i said earlier, curiosity drives us
  646. Kori says (12:07 AM):
  647.  without curiosity and a will to know who, what, when, why, how
  648.  we're shells
  649. (E-mail address not verified) says (12:07 AM):
  650.  But if I don't know why I shouldn't do wrong, then why should I avoid doing wrong?
  651.  If I have no reason to avoid doing something, why avoid doing it?
  652. Kori says (12:07 AM):
  653.  we've developed enough intelligence that 'this is wrong' and 'this hurts' aren't sufficient
  654. Eldrad says (12:08 AM):
  655.  You would, ideally, not want to do wrong because you would get pricked by a briar, understand that it hurts, and would not want to prick someone else, so to speak
  656. Kori says (12:08 AM):
  657.  That's different from what we were talking about
  658.  huh
  659. Eldrad says (12:09 AM):
  660.  i was responding to sanders
  661. Kori says (12:09 AM):
  662.  That's more like empathy
  663.  oh
  664.  ye
  665. (E-mail address not verified) says (12:09 AM):
  666.  meh
  667.  i'm not content with that philosophy
  668. (E-mail address not verified) says (12:10 AM):
  669.  it really does seem to be promoting ignorance to me
  670. Eldrad says (12:10 AM):
  671.  The context of Meditations is that Aurelius wrote them over the course of several military campaigns. He wasn't very educated, he was a simple man.
  672. (E-mail address not verified) says (12:10 AM):
  673.  and is all about consequences of actions
  674. Kori says (12:10 AM):
  675.  that's why i don't like it either
  676. Disambi says (12:10 AM):
  677.  I'd have to agree with Sanders.
  678. Eldrad says (12:10 AM):
  679.  He's not promoting ignorance, he's promoting simplicity.
  680. Kori says (12:10 AM):
  681.  In the context of when he was and where he was
  682.  It was great
  683.  But at this point in time
  684.  I understand where you're coming from, mant
  685. (E-mail address not verified) says (12:10 AM):
  686.  "If an action has a negative consequence, do not repeat the action" is what I'm reading from this
  687. Eldrad says (12:10 AM):
  688.  Because the life you live is anything but simple
  689. Eldrad says (12:11 AM):
  690.  You and your cities are so complicated
  691. Disambi says (12:12 AM):
  692.  Are you really going to suggest that society and  the general lifestyle of people hasn't changed in the time since his book?
  693. Eldrad says (12:12 AM):
  694.  No, it has, definitely.
  695.  I'm saying I don't think it's for the better.
  696. (E-mail address not verified) says (12:12 AM):
  697.  okay well this has been fun
  698. (E-mail address not verified) says (12:13 AM):
  699.  i have to sleep
  700. Disambi says (12:13 AM):
  701.  Night.
  702. Eldrad says (12:13 AM):
  703.  good night
  704. Kori says (12:13 AM):
  705.  Night, Sanders
  706. (E-mail address not verified) says (12:13 AM):
  707.  i'm going to type up another scenario from my book and then depart
  708. Kori says (12:13 AM):
  709.  Was a good chat
  710.  I think that we've degenerated in some ways and improved in some
  711. Barre says (12:13 AM):
  712.  silly sanders
  713.  druggies never sleep
  714. Disambi says (12:13 AM):
  715.  I will definately agree that not every change has been better, but we've improved as well.
  716. Kori says (12:13 AM):
  717.  And mant, it was simpler back then and perhaps more people had the kind of simple thought that guy had
  718. Kori says (12:14 AM):
  719.  But even then, they had the same assholes we have today
  720.  the same immoral people
  721.  maybe it was just easier to hide it back then
  722. Eldrad says (12:14 AM):
  723.  Have you ever been to Pompeii, Kori? Or at least, seen pictures of it.
  724. Kori says (12:14 AM):
  725.  I've seen pictures
  726. Disambi says (12:14 AM):
  727.  But that didn't come without questing the world, evil, and pretty much everything.
  728. Kori says (12:14 AM):
  729.  Bread still in the oven, bodies preserved with how they were lying
  730. Eldrad says (12:14 AM):
  731.  There's still ancient latin graffiti on the walls in the streets.
  732. Disambi says (12:15 AM):
  733.  If there's paradise beyond the briar patch, it way be worth the cuts.
  734. Eldrad says (12:15 AM):
  735.  Saying so-and-so had and affair with whomever.
  736. Disambi says (12:15 AM):
  737.  may be*
  738. Disambi says (12:16 AM):
  739.  without questioning*
  740.  Fuck I'm tired.
  741. Kori says (12:16 AM):
  742.  curiosity, man
  743.  it drives us and makes us who we are
  744. Disambi says (12:16 AM):
  745.  Exactly.
  746. Kori says (12:17 AM):
  747.  without curiosity, we are nothing
  748. (E-mail address not verified) says (12:17 AM):
  749.  Alexis, a gifted high school student, wants to become a doctor. Because she comes from a poor family, she will need a scholarship in order to attend college. Some of her classes require students to do extra research projects in order to get an A. Her high school has a few older PCs, but there are always long lines of students waiting to use them during the school day. After school, she usually works at a part-time job to help support her family.
  750.                   One evening Alexis visits the library of a private college a few miles from her family's apartment, and she finds plenty of unused PCs connected to the internet. She surreptitiously looks over the shoulder of another student to learn a valid login/password combination. Alexis returns to the library several times a week, and by using its PCs and printers she efficiently completes the extra research projects, graduates from high school with straight A's, and gets a full-ride scholarship to attend a prestigious university.
  752. Did Alexis do anything wrong?
  753. Who benefited from Alexis's course of action?
  754.  Who was hurt by Alexis's course of action?
  755. Did Alexis have an unfair advantage over her high school classmates?
  756. Would any of your answers change if it turns out Alexis did not win a college scholarship after all and is now working at the Burger Barn?
  757. Are there better ways Alexis could have accomplished her objective?
  759.   Stroll has been added to the conversation.
  761. Kori says (12:19 AM):
  762.  there's nothing in the rules saying that students from other schools aren't allowed to use their library, is there?
  763. Disambi says (12:19 AM):
  764.  Other than the stealing the username/password part, I see nothing wrong with it.
  765. Kori says (12:19 AM):
  766.  If she fails, no one benefits or loses
  767. Eldrad says (12:19 AM):
  768.  It's a "victimless crime".
  769. Kori says (12:19 AM):
  770.  If she succeeds, everyone benefits
  771. Kori says (12:20 AM):
  772.  yeah, mant
  773. Disambi says (12:20 AM):
  774.  Pretty much, yeah.
  775. Kori says (12:20 AM):
  776.  In terms of having an unfair advantage, she was disadvantaged at the start
  777.  She could have gone to a public library, or asked a friend
  778.  Even used encyclopedias, though it would have been much more work for her to use offline sources
  779. Eldrad says (12:21 AM):
  780.  Besides, I could never admonish her because... I sort of have the same habit.
  781. Kori says (12:21 AM):
  782.  and those offline sources could easily be outdated
  783.  there could be new information on the subject
  784. (E-mail address not verified) says (12:21 AM):
  785.  Really>
  786.  manticus I'm surprised that you don't find that to be immoral
  787. Eldrad says (12:21 AM):
  788.  When I take tests, I glance at other people's papers. I'm not even trying to cheat, I just... want to gauge how far people are along the test.
  789. Kori says (12:22 AM):
  790.  i try not to do that but i always want to see how far people are
  791. (E-mail address not verified) says (12:22 AM):
  792.  I thought for sure you would say she was immoral for stealing the login information of someone else
  793. Kori says (12:22 AM):
  794.  i always do
  795.  ;_;
  796. (E-mail address not verified) says (12:22 AM):
  797.  and therefore is undeserving of the rewards
  798. Kori says (12:22 AM):
  799.  well, it's not like she makes it unable for the 'victim' to do anything
  800. Eldrad says (12:22 AM):
  801.  Well, it would be immoral if the person she took the information from was suffering because of it
  802. Kori says (12:22 AM):
  803.  ^
  804. Eldrad says (12:22 AM):
  805.  ie. he couldnt log in
  806.  Then there would be a problem.
  807. Eldrad says (12:23 AM):
  808.  At the end of the day, the only group suffering is the library that's missing out on one whole customer.
  809. Kori says (12:23 AM):
  810.  wait
  811.  mant
  812.  that means that this is like piracy
  813.  hehe
  814.  You could compare this to piracy
  815. (E-mail address not verified) says (12:23 AM):
  816.  actually its funny you bring that up
  817. Disambi says (12:23 AM):
  818.  It said it had many open PCs.
  819. Kori says (12:23 AM):
  820.  oh
  821. Kori says (12:24 AM):
  822.  welp
  823. (E-mail address not verified) says (12:24 AM):
  824.  this textbook is from a class on Ethics for the Information Age
  825.  its all about Piracy and System Security
  826. Eldrad says (12:24 AM):
  827.  >Ethics for the Information Age
  828. (E-mail address not verified) says (12:24 AM):
  829.  etc
  830. Eldrad says (12:24 AM):
  831.  Oh, 1995...
  832. Kori says (12:24 AM):
  833.  Disambi, it was a private college where I assume all the computers needed a login
  834.  So if she was actually needing to pay for the college to use the computer
  835.  Then this is comparable to piracy
  836. (E-mail address not verified) says (12:24 AM):
  837.  nah the book is pretty new
  838. Eldrad says (12:25 AM):
  839.  "Information Age" is such an antiquated term
  840. (E-mail address not verified) says (12:25 AM):
  841.  because it talks about the RIAA suing the pants off everybody
  842. Eldrad says (12:25 AM):
  843.  i prefer to call it
  844.  the Globalization Era
  845. Disambi says (12:25 AM):
  846.  Well they didn't lose a customer, just had someone using their bandwith and ink cartidges.
  847. Kori says (12:25 AM):
  848.  I think that globalization is barely, barely starting
  849. (E-mail address not verified) says (12:26 AM):
  850.  okay
  851.  i'm going to type up another, more complicated scenario
  852.  THEN sleep
  853. Eldrad says (12:26 AM):
  854.  no
  855.  no
  856.  no
  857.  i cant
  858.  its 3:26 am
  859. Kori says (12:26 AM):
  860.  Well, Disambi, then pirating a game or music is not a lost sale
  861. (E-mail address not verified) says (12:26 AM):
  862.  too late im doing it
  863. Disambi says (12:26 AM):
  864.  It's not, it's copyright infridgement.
  865. Kori says (12:26 AM):
  866.  touche
  867. (E-mail address not verified) says (12:26 AM):
  868.  this scenario is about privacy
  869. Kori says (12:28 AM):
  870.  last one?
  871.  maybe we can continue tomorrow
  872. Stroll says (12:29 AM):
  873.  i just re-read and i find this hilarious
  874. Kori says (12:29 AM):
  875.  strolll
  876.  no mant-hating allowed
  877. Stroll says (12:29 AM):
  878.  hi
  879.  i said hilarious
  880. Kori says (12:29 AM):
  881.  ye
  882.  i'm glad that we managed to have such a great discussion
  883.  and there was zero hating
  884. Barre says (12:29 AM):
  885.  Why are you guys still up?
  886.  It's almost 4am
  887. Stroll says (12:29 AM):
  888.  its morning here
  889. (E-mail address not verified) says (12:29 AM):
  890.  In an attempt to deter speeders, the East Dakota State Police (EDSP) installs video cameras on all of its freeway overpasses. The cameras are connected to computers that can reliably detect cars traveling more than five miles per hour above the speed limit. These computers have sophisticated image recognition software that enables them to read license plate numbers and capture high-resolution pictures of vehicle drivers. If the picture of the driver matches the driver's license photo of one of the registered owners of the car, the system issues a speeding ticket to the driver, complete with photo evidence. Six months after the system is put into operation, the number of people speeding on East Dakota freeways is reduced by 90 percent.
  891.        The FBI asks the EDSP for real-time access to the information collected by the video cameras. The EDSP complies with this request. Three months later, the FBI uses this information to arrest five members of a terrorist organization.
  893. 1. Did the East Dakota State Police do anything wrong?
  894. 2. Who benefited from the actions of the EDSP?
  895. Stroll says (12:29 AM):
  896.  8:30
  897. Barre says (12:29 AM):
  898.  not you stroll
  899. Barre says (12:30 AM):
  900.  I meant the amurcans
  901. Eldrad says (12:30 AM):
  902.  I want to note how Ralph said nothing because he could not contribute without feeling stupid
  903. Barre says (12:30 AM):
  904.  That hurts
  905. (E-mail address not verified) says (12:30 AM):
  906.  3. Who was harmed by the actions of the EDSP?
  907. 4. What other courses of action could the EDSP have taken to achieve its objectives? Examine the advantages and disadvantaged of these alternative courses of action.
  908. Stroll says (12:30 AM):
  909.  or maybe mant
  910.  its 4am where he is
  911. Kori says (12:30 AM):
  912.  I wouldn't say it's wrong
  913. Barre says (12:30 AM):
  914.  it ain't
  915. Stroll says (12:30 AM):
  916.  wait no
  917. Barre says (12:30 AM):
  918.  it's 4am in america
  919.  well
  920.  almost
  921. Stroll says (12:30 AM):
  922.  no it isnt
  923. Barre says (12:30 AM):
  924.  3:30
  925. Stroll says (12:30 AM):
  926.  its like 2;30
  927. Barre says (12:31 AM):
  928.  according to mant
  929. Disambi says (12:31 AM):
  930.  It's 3:30 for the East Coast.
  931. Barre says (12:31 AM):
  932.  it's 3:30 where it matters
  933. Stroll says (12:31 AM):
  934.  00:30 -> 3:30
  935. Kori says (12:31 AM):
  936.  nobody but people breaking the law and disrupting order are being harmed
  937. Eldrad says (12:31 AM):
  938.  Don't they already do that in Britain?
  939. Kori says (12:31 AM):
  940.  everybody benefits except people who are breaking the law
  941. Disambi says (12:31 AM):
  942.  >2012
  943. >Living in Mountain Time.
  944. Kori says (12:31 AM):
  945.  which you should be prepared for the consequences anyways
  946. (E-mail address not verified) says (12:31 AM):
  947.  But its an invasion of privacy.
  948. Disambi says (12:31 AM):
  949.  I think they do it some place in the U.S. already too.
  950.  Is it?
  951. Kori says (12:31 AM):
  952.  The FBI, I'm sure, already has pictures of our faces
  953. Disambi says (12:32 AM):
  954.  How is you driving a car private?
  955. Kori says (12:32 AM):
  956.  If I drive on the other side of the road
  957. Stroll says (12:32 AM):
  958.  oh also
  959. Kori says (12:32 AM):
  960.  And look in through the windshield
  961.  That's not an invasion of privacy
  962.  If I come in and search or look through the trunk of your car
  963.  that's an invasion of privacy
  964. Stroll says (12:32 AM):
  965.  disambi, above you said infridgement which i was going to make a >fridge ihope joke
  966.  But it's infringement
  967.  :3
  968. Barre says (12:33 AM):
  969.  ahh
  970. Disambi says (12:33 AM):
  971.  Oh, thanks. I didn't even notice.
  972. Barre says (12:33 AM):
  973.  time to eat
  974. Kori says (12:33 AM):
  975.  I don't see any other methods to be that efficient with catching law breakers and people on the run
  976. Disambi says (12:33 AM):
  977.  I really need to get some proper sleep.
  978. Kori says (12:34 AM):
  979.  perhaps if the FBI were looking for someone, they could give an estimated time and receive footage from that time?
  980.  though it'd be less efficient
  981. Disambi says (12:34 AM):
  982.  Exactly, it uses no info that a law enforcement agency doesn't already know. (i.e. Plate numbers and driver's licenses.)
  983. (E-mail address not verified) says (12:35 AM):
  984.  Yes it does
  985.  It uses information such as "where was X person at Y time"
  986. Eldrad says (12:35 AM):
  987.  Watching someone drink coffee at a cafe is not an invasion of privacy. Watching someone drink coffee at a cafe if you have followed them there, and knew they'd drink there, is
  988. Disambi says (12:35 AM):
  989.  On a public, likely highly used intersection.
  990. Kori says (12:35 AM):
  991.  well, that's not an invasion of privacy unless it's in a private place
  992. Kori says (12:36 AM):
  993.  Mant, that's not really an invasion of privacy
  994.  I wouldn't call it one
  995.  Because there is no privacy there to begin with
  996. Eldrad says (12:36 AM):
  997.  im tired
  998. Kori says (12:36 AM):
  999.  it's creepy
  1000. Disambi says (12:36 AM):
  1001.  Well, it's more like light stalking in Mant's version.
  1002. Eldrad says (12:36 AM):
  1003.  this isnt working for me
  1004. Kori says (12:36 AM):
  1005.  but not an invasion of privacy
  1006.  alright, mant
  1007.  let's end here
  1008. Disambi says (12:36 AM):
  1009.  Which would be more harrasment.
  1010. Kori says (12:36 AM):
  1011.  maybe we can pick up some later time
  1012. Disambi says (12:37 AM):
  1013.  Yes, this was enjoyable.
  1014. Kori says (12:37 AM):
  1015.  I've seen Disambi slip like, three times.
  1016.  hehe
  1017.  It was very enjoyable
  1018. Eldrad says (12:37 AM):
  1019.  Good night.
  1020. Kori says (12:37 AM):
  1021.  Glad to have spoken with you all, I learned
  1022. Disambi says (12:37 AM):
  1023.  Night.
  1024. Kori says (12:37 AM):
  1025.  Good night
RAW Paste Data