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ImperiiFi

Akonyte's Racism

ImperiiFi
Oct 30th, 2015
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  1. 00:54 Starbase93 barabbas` Thank you
  2. 00:55 Starbase93 Update: One man was shot in stomach, another stabbed in face, pd not sure if incidents were related, the shooter and the stabber are still unknown.
  3. 00:55 Starbase93 Happened about 7PM tonight
  4. 00:55 barabbas` Starbase93 Where at?
  5. 00:56 Starbase93 barabbas` Right near where I live. Heard gun shots to the east of me, and then to the north.
  6. 00:56 Starbase93 Most likely in the other apt parking lot
  7. 00:57 barabbas` Starbase93 Glad I live in the country. I hear shooting once in a while. Lots of hunting and target shooting around here.
  8. 00:58 Starbase93 barabbas` Lately an Apache that lives here has been threatening people, stood outside for about 30 minutes one night threatening my son ( he was in bedroom with ear phones on). And he tried to stab a friend of mine with an ice pick, we think he was involved.
  9. 00:58 Octavian why do you have to refer to him as an apache
  10. 00:58 barabbas` Starbase93 Sounds like a probability.
  11. 00:58 Octavian and make comments about how a muskogee should never trust an apache.
  12. 00:58 Starbase93 barabbas` Talk has it that the Apache and his brother are trying to kill a black dude that lives near by.
  13. 00:58 Octavian sighs.
  14. 00:59 Starbase93 barabbas` Obviously, the Apache has no clue to how to live civilized,
  15. 00:59 barabbas` Starbase93 Part of the culture.
  16. 00:59 Starbase93 and before someone claims I am a racist, I am also American Indian, different tribe.
  17. 01:00 calloption not racist, but tribalist
  18. 01:00 calloption got it
  19. 01:00 calloption
  20. 01:00 calloption are you cherokee?
  21. 01:00 Starbase93 No
  22. 01:01 barabbas` for one Native to call another by their nationality is no different than Americans referring to those North of us as Canadians.
  23. 01:01 calloption is "red skins" offensive to you?
  24. 01:01 barabbas` Apache, Cherokee, Comanche etc are all national names. Each tribe is a soverign nation within the borders of the United States.
  25. 01:02 Octavian barabbas`: except when he earlier said that a muskogee can never trust an apache
  26. 01:02 Starbase93 Most Indians of other tribes I have met think the same way: Never trust an Apache.
  27. 01:03 barabbas` Octavian yeah, that is much like the Hatfields and McCoys. Goes back a long way. Around my neck of the woods, it is the Queets that aren't trusted much. The Taholah and Quinault hate each other.
  28. 01:04 Starbase93 Mu wife will spit on the ground when Apaches are mentioned.
  29. 01:04 Octavian ok but that's pure bigotry
  30. 01:04 Octavian It's not ok to speak poorly of someone just for belonging to a particular ethnic group
  31. 01:05 Starbase93 My last wife was Lakota-Souix, she also had very little respect for Apaches.
  32. 01:06 barabbas` Starbase93 There were a lot of Souix where I was born, N. Dak.
  33. 01:06 Octavian Well this conversation is ugly and hopefully it will be over soon.
  34. 01:07 *** BeaHubot quit (Ping timeout)
  35. 01:09 barabbas` A lot of true life experiences are ugly. No reason not to discuss them though.
  36. 01:09 Octavian barabbas`: it is straight up bigotry, though.
  37. 01:09 Octavian Do we call people from canadians? Sure
  38. 01:10 Octavian but is it ok for us to say that they are untrustworthy or some other pejorative on the basis that they are canadians?
  39. 01:10 Octavian No.
  40. 01:10 Starbase93 true
  41. 01:10 Octavian *Do we say Canadian to refer to people from Canada
  42. 01:10 barabbas` Octavian Not really, it is how it is. Native Americans have a national identity for each tribe.
  43. 01:10 Octavian messed that up a tad
  44. 01:11 Octavian barabbas`: ok and it's wrong to say that canadians are untrustworthy due to them being canadians
  45. 01:11 Starbase93 Over 550 federally recognized tribes and nations'
  46. 01:11 Octavian Also this guy is his neighbor and he likely knows who the man is
  47. 01:11 barabbas` Octavian I guess that depens on whether or not all Canadians are untrustworthy.
  48. 01:11 Octavian he could use a name for him a real one or a made up one
  49. 01:11 Octavian or he could say "a particular neighbor of mine"
  50. 01:12 Octavian but he emphasizes "the apache" because he dislikes Apaches
  51. 01:12 Octavian and talks about how apaches are untrustworthy and how his wife spits at the mention of apaches
  52. 01:12 Starbase93 barabbas` Technically, my nation are still enemies with the Cherokee. Seven generations have not yet passed. But because of fed intervention, we had to stop our seven generation conflict.
  53. 01:12 barabbas` Octavian I used to refer to my neighbor as the hispanic neighbor.
  54. 01:13 Octavian barabbas`: did you badmouth hispanics immediately after that?
  55. 01:13 Starbase93 barabbas` But it is easy to tell I am over it, I married a Cherokee.
  56. 01:13 Starbase93
  57. 01:14 barabbas` Starbase93 That is one thing that really surprised me when I went to work in a, basically rez school. Altough it wasn't on the rez the population of the school was 60% or more Natives from the Rez. I was surprised at the differences between each nation and how deep those differences ran.
  58. 01:14 Starbase93 barabbas` Yes, many do, many have a long memory.
  59. 01:15 Starbase93 barabbas` However, the Pow Wows have brought together traditional enemies in a peaceful setting. Things are getting better.
  60. 01:15 barabbas` Octavian When I grew up, Natives were referred to as Indians. The term Native American was not coined yet. It wasn't derrogatory at the time. If we didn't use Indian, we would use their tribal name.
  61. 01:15 Starbase93 barabbas` Indians are looking for what they have in common, instead of their differences.
  62. 01:16 barabbas` Starbase93 yeah, I know, but there is still a core at the center of each tribe that won't let loose of the old ways.
  63. 01:16 Octavian barabbas`: this is wrong and I hope you understand that it is wrong, and are just trying to overlook the flaws of akonyte because he's an old friend or something
  64. 01:16 Starbase93 barabbas` Hard to change nouns after using another on most of life.
  65. 01:16 Octavian but I personally am disgusted by it
  66. 01:16 barabbas` Starbase93 Casinos have brought them closer together.
  67. 01:17 Starbase93 barabbas` You are correct. Native tongues are still taught, many tribes have started teaching native tongues along side English
  68. 01:17 *** chalcedny is now known as chalcedony
  69. 01:17 Starbase93 barabbas` Trust me, we will never be totally assimulated into white culture.
  70. 01:18 Starbase93 barabbas` My war hammer hangs on my wall as a warning.
  71. 01:18 layla- is barabbas an english word?
  72. 01:18 Starbase93 no
  73. 01:18 barabbas` Starbase93 I had a hard time saying Native American, I didn't trip off my tongue, Indian did. One day I slipped and called them Indians in class. I immediatly asked if they felt I was being offensive or if Indian was an offensive term for them. One girl who I had had some trouble with and who Ithought would be all over me for this, looked me in the eye and said, it depends on whose
  74. 01:18 barabbas` saying it and why. Then she smiled and we went on with the lesson.
  75. 01:18 Starbase93 Prob Hebrew or related lang
  76. 01:19 Starbase93 barabbas` Of course. Context is everything.
  77. 01:19 barabbas` Starbase93 I think it is an English interpretation, Just like Jesus is an interpretation or translation of Yeshua.
  78. 01:19 Octavian barabbas` was the name of a captive jewish rebel that was a prisoner during the story of Jesus' trial in the gospels
  79. 01:20 barabbas` Yes, but was his name in Hebrew Barabbas or something else.
  80. 01:20 Starbase93 barabbas` American liberals will have to get it thru their heads that we are we and they are they, and they need to keep their collective noses out of our affairs
  81.  
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  84. 23:21 Octavian Did you consider that I had been writing that sentence for longer than you had been typing yours and that I did not notice or have the time to read what you had just typed since I finished the last few words and hit enter a few SECONDS after you posted it?
  85. 23:22 Octavian If you were going to force me to stop, fine.
  86. 23:22 Octavian But I literally hadn't reacted to your 'last warning' when I input that. :|
  87. 23:23 barabbas` You were warned MORE THAN ONCE, yet you continued with the same old crap. Heed the first warning.
  88. 23:23 Octavian ....
  89. 23:23 Octavian I was warned exactly twice.
  90. 23:23 Octavian And it was not crap.
  91. 23:23 Octavian I'm saying that I would have heeded your 2nd warning
  92. 23:23 Octavian but I had been IN THE PROCESS OF finishing up a line
  93. 23:23 Octavian which I input mere seconds after your 'final warning'
  94. 23:25 barabbas` the point is, if you continue to repeat the same argument, the same sentence over and over you will be kicked. It is nothing but a distruption to the channel and not good for debate. I responded to you twice to clarify what the OT actually is in relationship to Jewish writings. You basically blew me off, and continued to fill the channel with the same crap.
  95. 23:26 Octavian What? My point was that the jews don't open up the bible and use the Old Testament as their source
  96. 23:26 Octavian they use their tanukh scrolls
  97. 23:28 barabbas` And as I pointed out MORE THAN ONCE, they DO use the OT, they just don't USE the Bible or call it the Old Testament. The writings are IDENTICAL, they are THE SAME contained in the OT as contained IN the body of the scroll. The OT does NOT contain the MIdrash, the border writings on the scroll however. Now if this isn't clear to you, do some research and end your ignorance.
  98. 23:31 *** barabbas` is now known as barabbas`afk
  99. 23:32 Octavian they are not identical
  100. 23:32 Octavian for the most part, jews are going to use hebrew versions :|
  101. 23:32 Octavian and christians are going to use english translations
  102. 23:32 Octavian the translations and interpretations of said translations are quite different between judaism and christianity.
  103. 23:38 Octavian It is disappointing to me that only you feels the need to be so sour and rude and hostile during a discussion
  104. 23:38 Octavian and to stoop to the level of declaring my position a 'worthless' and 'pedantic' and nitpicking
  105. 23:38 Octavian God bless.
  106. 23:52 *** barabbas`afk is now known as barabbas`
  107. 01:15 Octavian How can you just sit there and allow that
  108. 01:26 *** barabbas` is now known as barabbas`bbl
  109. 01:27 barabbas`bbl allow what?
  110. 01:27 Octavian his derogatory remarks about apaches
  111. 01:27 Octavian 'never trust an apache' and such
  112. 01:27 Octavian If he wants to refer to the man as an apache, sure, fine.
  113. 01:27 Octavian I understand that it's a pretty common mannerism
  114. 01:27 barabbas`bbl its part of his and the Apache culture. I know other apaches who say the same thing. They don't trust each other.
  115. 01:27 Octavian but not the whole apaches-untrustworthy garbage
  116. 01:28 Octavian you know apaches who say all apaches are untrustwothy?
  117. 01:28 Octavian Or did you mean that you know muskogees who say it
  118. 01:28 Octavian or something else entirely
  119. 01:29 Octavian and sure, there probably is some historical animosity at work
  120. 01:29 Octavian but it's no less reprehensible because of that
  121. 01:29 Octavian It. is. not. ok.
  122. 01:29 Octavian It isn't right to say that someone cannot be trusted for belonging to some country or ethnic group or whatnot
  123. 01:30 barabbas`bbl Besides he was referring to one man whose name he probably doesn't know, but whose nation is known. Knowing Natives as I do, I can easily see this neighbor as declaring himself to be Apache just to evoke fear and mistrust in his neighbors. Some wear this distrust as a badge of honor they are quick to put out there.
  124. 01:31 Octavian Starbase93 Most Indians of other tribes I have met think the same way: Never trust an Apache.
  125. 01:31 Octavian clear and unambiguous bigotry towards apaches.
  126. 01:33 barabbas`bbl he was talking to me, We have a long history and understand each other in the context of his culture. I could have done as you did and in so doing alienate him, as others do. I chose to respect who he is and meet him on common ground.
  127. 01:33 Octavian yeah and he said that same thing, the whole
  128. 01:33 Octavian 'never trust an apache'
  129. 01:33 Octavian earlier
  130. 01:33 Octavian to the open channel
  131. 01:33 Octavian and earlier he posted a link about how atheists use less parts of their brains
  132. 01:33 barabbas`bbl Where and when I grew up, this was common amongst all people, Indian or not.
  133. 01:34 Octavian When he realized no ops were paying attention
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