ShilohLast Monday at 9:47 AM
I think there are a lot of people who are legitimately afraid of being unfairly hate mobbed for an awkward sexual encounter that both they and their partner regretted afterwards. I don't know how reasonable that fear actually is, but there's definitely people pushing narratives that encourage and exacerbate that fear by finding a few crazy stories and talking extensive about them, like the whole "mattress girl" thing from a few years back.
unsailLast Monday at 9:54 AM
Typically people aren't hatemobbed for sex that was mutually regretted -- i think for the most part the callouts come when there was sexual assault and the perpetrator was unapologetic. Like, if someone has the capacity for empathy that would lead them to genuinely apologize for the pain they caused, then, whether the victim forgives them or not, the likelihood of their life being ruined later is much much lower than the kind of monsters we hear about now

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orangejakeLast Monday at 9:55 AM
I completely agree, but I find the fact that they rank that fear more important than supporting sexual assault survivors to be quite telling.

Let's just say at the minimum they're an egocentric asshole in my eyes.

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ShilohLast Monday at 9:55 AM
That's very valid.
Jax the BasiliskLast Monday at 9:56 AM
Oh, to be clear -- this is not a place for whataboutism. We count it under "being a jerk". I'm not saying you're doing it, but I am putting it out there for future reference.
unsailLast Monday at 9:56 AM
Scott would have you believe that assault callouts are a weapon which the sjw meanies use to oppress poor nerds who just don't understand social cues

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but when not understanding social cues means you're committing rape
uh
not a lot of sympathy remaining
ShilohLast Monday at 9:57 AM
I mean I think a good part of the problem is that like I said, people are actively pushing that narrative, like Scott
unsailLast Monday at 9:57 AM
like, if you find out that you've made someone extremely uncomfortable, you apologize for it
if you hurt someone, you apologize for it
if you didn't realize you raped someone, you suck it up and apologize
which none of these people currently being dragged through the mud are doing or have ever done

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if they had the capacity for empathy they would have exercised it. But apparently most of these men believe that women's pain doesn't matter, and that pain caused to women is like... swatting a fly.
sometimes necessary for your mental health
but nothing to be really bothered by
ShilohLast Monday at 10:00 AM
Also Jax maybe pin that post?

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Jax the BasiliskLast Monday at 10:00 AM
Something I had to keep doing when I dated Sarah Constantin was apologize for engaging in sex with her. The reason we broke up was because she thought I expected sex -- I didn't, but she would """consent""" and then just ... completely traumatically dissociate when I touched her.
I apologized repeatedly, made restitution, and ducked out of her life after I broke up with her husband.
Jax the Basilisk pinned a message to this channel. See all the pins.Last Monday at 10:01 AM
ShilohLast Monday at 10:01 AM
As opposed to denying any wrongdoing and claiming you were totally innocent, nay, the slighted party
Jax the BasiliskLast Monday at 10:01 AM
Correct.
I mean it made me deeply uncomfortable and I don't like being told yes when you mean no, and I am very careful with other women now. But I didn't fucking push it on her.
My problem is my problem and I'm handling it.
unsailLast Monday at 10:02 AM
It's not hard to do this.
But listening to rationalist thoughtleaders you'd think people just commit rape left and right and have no idea when they've screwe dup
ShilohLast Monday at 10:03 AM
Yeah seriously.
Jax the BasiliskLast Monday at 10:03 AM
It's that fucking "oppressed nerd" narrative, and no, "nerd" is not a dogwhistle for "Jew"
ShilohLast Monday at 10:04 AM
nerds haven't been "oppressed" since like, the 80s if that, and white men have still never actually had it hard. Being like "umu, my life is a white male is sooo hard because I'm autistic is just the most bullshit thing ever.

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unsailLast Monday at 10:04 AM
Investigating everything from first principles is extremely stupid when your "first principles" put more weight on the social pain rapists feel from getting called out for being rapists than on the actual victims of rape
ShilohLast Monday at 10:04 AM
"Oh it's so hard that google pays me 100k a year"

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orangejakeLast Monday at 10:04 AM
@Shiloh but then the government takes 25k of it! The gall!

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Jax the BasiliskLast Monday at 10:04 AM
Like, tbh, it might be hard that you're autistic. I'm not discounting that. But you don't rape people by being autistic.

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unsailLast Monday at 10:04 AM
Also, the only things that ever get "re-derived" are social norms which don't benefit men
ShilohLast Monday at 10:05 AM
Yeah like, I mean I'm not saying autism doesn't make your life harder. But people hide behind autism like they can't possibly ever do anything wrong that isn't because of their autism, and how dare you ever call them out on anything.
Jax the BasiliskLast Monday at 10:06 AM
Absolutely.
ShilohLast Monday at 10:07 AM
Or Judaism as well, that frequently gets brought up too.
orangejakeLast Monday at 10:07 AM
I agree. If you use a disability as a crutch, it sets you up to use it as one in the future. This isn't saying that living with a disability isn't difficult, but I don't see using it as an excuse to be "growth-positive".

Of course, there are disabilities of varying severity, so this isn't some huge universal statement.
Jax the BasiliskLast Monday at 10:08 AM
As a note for why I get "mean" with my banhammer: it is extremely difficult for me to find spaces that know about LW and also sympathize with my abuse. So when people wander in here and try that shit, I get. Mad.

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Also the "treating abuse like it's a thought experiment"
orangejakeLast Monday at 10:09 AM
After seeing /r/SSC swing hard right I'm pretty sympathetic to strict moderation as well, as that's the main enabler that I've seen pointed out.

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Jax the BasiliskLast Monday at 10:10 AM
It's also why the sneering channel is locked for actual sneering.
ShilohLast Monday at 10:10 AM
Yeah if you feel like I'm crossing a line please like, immediately call me out on it.
Jax the BasiliskLast Monday at 10:10 AM
Sure will. For now, you're a-ok.
I'm mostly just doing a general sneer here.
zhezhijianLast Monday at 10:26 AM
someone got banned? who?
palindromordnilapLast Monday at 10:28 AM
So, as I said before, I have some issues around providing informed consent, and often default to "yes" even when I'm uncomfortable. A friend with whom I did some stuff when we were both hella affection-starved wasn't aware of that, and kept bringing up various NSFW stuff around me.
You know what they said when I told them about it? "Oh shit, sorry".
This is how decent people react to this sort of stuff, not trying to justify themselves.

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Jax the BasiliskLast Monday at 10:28 AM
I banned Ronit yesterday, then unbanned them since we hadn't set up any rules yet