[22:53:30] Haunter of the Haunters: (will forever imagine credo and nero as protective brothers over kyrie)
[22:53:41] Noodletroodle: (Nero picked it up from Credo)
[22:53:45] Haunter of the Haunters: (kyrie is going to go on a date w/ someone
[22:53:46] Noodletroodle: (gotta be da brother when he's not around)
[22:53:58] Haunter of the Haunters: nero and credo sharpening their swords in the background)
[22:54:07] Haunter of the Haunters: ("we just want to talk to him")
[22:54:33] Noodletroodle: my gosh. I am now imagining tiny Nero emulating Credo b/c cOOL
[22:54:40] Haunter of the Haunters: ...
[22:54:43] Haunter of the Haunters: Credo is
[22:54:53] Haunter of the Haunters: actually stated to be a master of the sword, right?
[22:55:06] Haunter of the Haunters: what if he's where nero got half of his tricks from
[22:55:14] Haunter of the Haunters: by studying him and making his own techniques off of those
[22:55:20] Noodletroodle: that's incredibly likely, yes
[22:55:28] Noodletroodle: since he's not actually in the Order of the Sword
[22:55:45] Noodletroodle: (though I'm not sure if Credo being a "Master of the Sword" referred to his swordsmanship or his rank in the Order)
[22:56:04] Noodletroodle: (the "Sword" in "Order of the Sword" is the Sword of Sparda/Force Edge)
[22:56:19] Noodletroodle: (but y'know)
[22:56:27] Noodletroodle: (since he's pretty much DMC4's Vergil)
[22:56:33] Noodletroodle: (I'm ok with both)
[22:56:44] Haunter of the Haunters: (credo and vergil meet)
[22:57:00] Haunter of the Haunters: (vergil silently puts a hand on his shoulder and whispers
[22:57:14] Haunter of the Haunters: "thank you for being there for him"
[22:57:21] Haunter of the Haunters: credo: ...?)
[22:57:30] * Noodletroodle opens chest
[22:57:33] * Noodletroodle pulls out heart
[22:57:39] * Noodletroodle places it upon the altar of emotion
[22:57:46] * Noodletroodle it's not like she needed that anyway
[22:58:15] Haunter of the Haunters: l aughs
[22:58:31] Noodletroodle: just
[22:58:45] Noodletroodle: I hate how distant some bits of DMC4 made Credo out to be from Nero
[22:59:24] Noodletroodle: like, yeah tough love and all, but I cannot watch Credo attack the Savior, attack his leader and everything he has worked and sacrificed so much for to the point of abandoning his own humanity
[22:59:33] Noodletroodle: without seeing it as a brother desperately trying to protect his siblings
[22:59:38] Noodletroodle: both Nero and Kyrie
[22:59:48] Haunter of the Haunters: I think it was that
[23:00:38] Haunter of the Haunters: ...I dunno.
[23:00:44] Haunter of the Haunters: I had a long paragraph and I
[23:00:58] Haunter of the Haunters: honestly just can't think of how to justify it all, character-wise.
[23:01:18] Haunter of the Haunters: Could we call it him trying to maintain belief in the Order that he's served in--/believed/ in?
[23:01:57] Haunter of the Haunters: If so, then does he fight Nero because he believes in it so strongly...?
[23:02:18] Haunter of the Haunters: ...Or does he actually believe that Nero can beat him and that he knows that
[23:02:27] Haunter of the Haunters: and only fights if just to not betray what he believes in
[23:02:34] Haunter of the Haunters: ...
[23:02:45] Noodletroodle: hold on
[23:02:45] * Haunter of the Haunters Man, interpretations are some crazy stuff man
[23:03:03] Noodletroodle: I was rewatching his death scene to confirm something, as much as this scene disgusts me b/c fuck you too Dante
[23:03:13] Noodletroodle: Credo's end is perf tho
[23:03:31] Noodletroodle: The thing about Credo is that he's basically been indoctrinated
[23:04:48] Noodletroodle: He believes demons to be evil, and he believes in the Order's mission. Even as he dies, I think, he believes in the Order's mission -- he acknowledges their goal and acknowledges that Dante is the only one who can stop the Savior now (with Nero taken)
[23:04:50] Noodletroodle: And then
[23:04:59] Noodletroodle: He asks him to save them both
[23:05:06] Noodletroodle: He still believes in it, I think
[23:05:10] Noodletroodle: But not at the cost of his family
[23:05:30] Noodletroodle: (at the cost of himself, sure)
[23:05:33] Noodletroodle: (just not his family)
[23:05:37] Noodletroodle: (Vergil.jpg)
[23:05:48] Haunter of the Haunters: I think the best way to look at Credo in a complex perspective is as a man who is conflicted between what he believes and what he wants.
[23:05:57] Haunter of the Haunters: He believes in the Order and their goals.
[23:06:06] Haunter of the Haunters: But he wants to protect and see his family safe and happy.
[23:06:51] Noodletroodle: I think his initial reaction to Nero can definitely be explained by the revelation that he's a demon, and it's incredibly interesting because when Agnus accuses him of hiding it, he defends Nero absolutely
[23:06:56] Noodletroodle: He does /not/ want Nero involved
[23:08:02] Noodletroodle: He only goes after Nero when he's ordered to by Sanctus, and even then, I always saw him as being reluctant at that point
[23:08:41] Noodletroodle: He doesn't want to betray Nero
[23:08:47] Noodletroodle: ...but at the same time, I think he /feels/ betrayed
[23:09:46] Noodletroodle: Because his own brother is one of the things  he's fighting against, the things he's been taught to regard with loathing and disgust, the things he's set out to destroy for the better of the world, and it is /very/ personal
[23:10:43] Noodletroodle: As opposed to fighting for the Order, he's fighting for himself there. That's how I'd try to reconcile it, anyway.
[23:10:49] Haunter of the Haunters: that
[23:10:58] Haunter of the Haunters: Is actually a very strong and good observation of it.
[23:11:23] Haunter of the Haunters: You could even take it a step beyond when he sees Agnus take Kyrie hostage.
[23:11:46] Haunter of the Haunters: He sees Nero, despite being a demon, still cares about Kyrie. That he'll still fight for the family he cares about.
[23:12:10] Noodletroodle: while the Order itself has betrayed him
[23:12:15] Haunter of the Haunters: Whereas the Order doesn't really care and will step on whoever they need to in order to accomplish their desires. Including involving his sister.
[23:12:27] Noodletroodle: HNNNNNNN I love analyzing characters like this
[23:13:03] Noodletroodle: I never really get to do this with CG because DMC4's plot is of little consequence to her, as far as I understand
[23:13:20] Noodletroodle: (which is frustrating because, for all its faults, it adds a /lot/)
[23:14:23] Noodletroodle: Credo's death hurts even more now because he was probably conflicted and uncertain right up to his death
[23:14:24] Haunter of the Haunters: (It really does.)
[23:14:32] Noodletroodle: There was no resolution for him
[23:14:39] Haunter of the Haunters: He left that up to Dante.
[23:14:48] Haunter of the Haunters: And, inevitably, Nero as well.
[23:14:50] Noodletroodle: All he could do was hope and pray that his siblings would be ok and maybe make it through, whatever else happened
[23:15:31] Haunter of the Haunters: man this hurts suddenly
[23:15:37] * Haunter of the Haunters holds chest
[23:15:41] Noodletroodle: tell me about it