Peace

Lord Vehk, are you there?
10:22
AnguirusFTW2013
Maybe Vehk died
10:23
Lord Vehk
Imagine yourself in our shoes. We go to the chat whenever we can so that we can talk about Godzilla and help improve the wiki. When someone declares that the chatroom and Wiki itself will be moved. How would you react?
10:23
Titanollante
Let me stop you right there.
10:23
Nbajammer
Vehk, I read the text in question
that's not what it said
The text said he was discussing it.
Just because something is being discussed, does not mean it will happen
10:24
Titanollante
It was only a possibility that I was discussing privately with ShodaiGoro, but ShodaiGoro decided he was going to let the entire chat know about it for whatever reason.
Scratch that, I know the reason.
Welcome to the Toho Kaiju Wiki chat
10:25
Nbajammer
I should also point out that threatening someone's life in a chat room does not help the wiki or talk about the subject matter
10:25
Lord Vehk
The way that most of us heard it was that this was going to come to pass, so of course we replied with shouts of protests. Our friends would be gone, our home destroyed, our very souls having a piece torn off and chewed on by an angry pitbull.
And I'm aware that DEATH THREATS aren't the answer, however, that is why I am here.Talking to you.
10:26
Nbajammer
Vehk, #1 - it was being discussed. What I read did not say that the wiki was moving. #2 - Did anyone bother to ask why, before throwing a fit?
10:26
Lord Vehk
Yes in fact we did.
10:26
Titanollante
Then it's ShodaiGoro's (and DrGodzilla120's) fault for putting those PMs in--
Uh...
Never mind
10:26
Nbajammer
Because the reason I was told is actually a very valid one.
10:26
Titanollante
--putting those PMs in chat and not making it clear
10:27
Lord Vehk
And what reason were you told?
10:27
Nbajammer
The ads on the wiki are intrusive.
10:27
Titanollante
Yeah, and we'd have more freedom to customize our stuff and not be slaves to Wikia's terms of use
10:28
Nbajammer
Absolutely nothing was said of the chat room, or the use of it
And I have personally seen at least 2 wikis leave Wikia for these very reasons
2 BIG wikis
10:28
Titanollante
I did tell Ben that if we were to move, I was going to try to make a chat room-- a better chat room with ChatTags and all that, don't know if Ben posted that or not
10:29
Nbajammer
Titan was never out to screw anybody - he was looking to improve the wiki
But from what I read, people were doing a lot of assuming
10:29
Lord Vehk
So instead of trying to tell us that yourself, you decide to let the messenger stumble through the message?
10:30
Titanollante
*facepalm*
10:30
AnguirusFTW2013
The past is the past
10:30
Titanollante
Didn't I tell you I was privately discussing it with ShodaiGoro?
10:30
Lord Vehk
And if it had stayed a private conversation, then if it did come to pass, how would we find the new site?
10:30
Titanollante
And it was only a possibility, because it's not going to happen in years, it's not possible
10:30
AnguirusFTW2013
Let's talk about the present/future!
10:31
Lord Vehk
Yes. I agree with Anguirus. Let us talk of the future.
10:31
Nbajammer
I think you can see now that a lot of people overreacted for nothing
10:32
AnguirusFTW2013
I think we've all agreed that chat will come back sometime in the near-future
10:33
Nbajammer
This is not my fight, so I will not get involved - but I don't want to see any more trouble
10:33
AnguirusFTW2013
Now, what can we do to stop this from happening again? And what can we do to make chat better?
10:33
Nbajammer
I get angry when a friend comes to me fearing for his life
Kaijuzilla2000 has joined the chat.
10:34
Titanollante
@Ang - Not sure, but this is definitely a step in the right direction to making chat better
10:34
Lord Vehk
I understand your anger Nba, however you may want the whole story from someone else's viewpoint
10:34
Titanollante
Sigh
10:34
Lord Vehk
Not from the threatener. No. That would be wrong.
10:34
Nbajammer
Im worried less about the story and more about making sure this doesnt happen again
10:35
Lord Vehk
Ah, but in the story, lies the path to success.
10:35
Nbajammer
The story - whatever it is - is done. What's done is done.
10:35
AnguirusFTW2013
I think that one thing that could make this better is more Constructive Criticism, and less Deconstructive Criticism.
10:35
Nbajammer
that would be good, Ang
its okay to disagree, but you dont need to behave like this about it
10:35
Titanollante
Also, we'll have to update the chat policy
10:35
Lord Vehk
Yes. I believe that as well.
10:36
Nbajammer
May I offer some advice?
and this is to both sides
10:36
AnguirusFTW2013
Instead of just saying what's wrong, you should also say what you can do to make it better
ok
10:36
Lord Vehk
Another good one would be to somehow block the chat until someone actually READs the policy
10:36
Nbajammer
Don't believe everything you hear as fact - if you have any doubts, any at all - ASK before you react.
10:36
AnguirusFTW2013
Go for it, Jammer
nvm
XD
Great one.
10:37
Nbajammer
It seems to me that there was a fair bit of unclarity about the movement of the wiki (or lack thereof) that could and should have been clarified before proclaiming the sky was falling
So if anyone has any doubts to what Titan or the admins are discussing, such as a wiki move, ask them first.
You may find you have nothing to worry about, or that it isn't as bad as you think.
Sometimes when an admin does something, it is not always clear up front what they are doing or attempting to do.
10:39
AnguirusFTW2013
that's a good one
10:39
Nbajammer
From my working relationship with Titan, I can vouch that if you ask, he will tell you.
10:39
Lord Vehk
I agree. However. In some cases people will only here what they want not to hear and block out the rest. Miscommunication if you will. They hear what they choose and then pass the message along in their version, and then their version and then their version. Thus leading to mass-miscommunication
10:39
Titanollante
Also absolutely everyone in chat violated the chat rule "No fighting" so we need to actually enforce our chat policy that would probably help too
Kaijuzilla2000 has left the chat.
10:40
AnguirusFTW2013
(boom)
oops
wrong chatroom XD
Kaijuzilla2000 has joined the chat.
10:40
Nbajammer
That is true Vehk, very true. So in times like that, it would be doubly important that Titan and the administration be forthcoming and clear as to what they want to do.
Don't just talk about it in chat - document it.
Make a blog post about it, for instance.
10:41
AnguirusFTW2013
I've done that, sometimes
10:41
Nbajammer
I don't know how many users in total Wikizilla has, but I bet only a small number of them use Chat
How are the rest going to know what's planned or being discussed?
10:42
AnguirusFTW2013
If I was in a cool RP, I would C/P it into Pastebin.
That's a good question.
10:42
Lord Vehk
From a flawed viewpoint unless it is from the Administrator in question
10:42
AnguirusFTW2013
Should we spread the word?
10:42
Nbajammer
And I think this advice is something both sides should put to use
Communication breakdown is the biggest issue I see here
10:43
AnguirusFTW2013
^_^
10:43
Lord Vehk
I can't spread the word as I am currently banned there. However. Titanollante could make a blog as I suggested in chat when Titan was ignoring us.
10:44
AnguirusFTW2013
I tcould spread it on WZ
10:44
Nbajammer
I do want to say one more thing
10:45
Kaijuzilla2000
test
10:45
Nbajammer
Yes, I am a bcrat and admin on Wikizilla, but I am not going to be getting involved unless I am asked to. I have enough of my own wikis to tend to.
10:46
Lord Vehk
Titanollante should make the blog as it was originally his idea. And some exceptions must be made to allow room for argument in the no fighting rule. Arguments referring to the actual theories of fans and such. When it turns into a brawl both users could be kicked and then go back to having a peaceful debate.
10:46
Nbajammer
I like the sound of that
But people should not forget that Titan is the admin and bcrat on Wikizilla
I hold those titles, but I will not be acting on either unless he requests me to
10:47
Titanollante
I was partially ignoring you but only after I realized Ben was posting the things and the misunderstanding had already happened, I knew that due to the built-up tension this would not be pretty. I was scared of what was gonna happen...
So, anyways,
10:47
AnguirusFTW2013
Derp
I already made the blog
10:47
Nbajammer
No matter what you think of Titan, or what he does - he is still admin and bcrat
he is still the one in charge
and everyone should remember that
10:48
Lord Vehk
That's true. However, if he abuses his power, he should be able to be punished accordingly.
10:48
Titanollante
How am I abusing my power?
10:48
Nbajammer
The problem with that is what is or is not considered abuse of power
Something you think is abuse of power may not be to me, or to Ang
This is no one person's fault, either. It's really subjective.
Your idea of abuse of power can and will differ from mine
10:50
Lord Vehk
You kicked me thirty times because it was fun. Sounds abusive. But you're right, it is in the eyes of the beholder. And thus I believe that there should be certain limits to a bcrat's power
And again, no grudges.
10:50
Nbajammer
I don't know if you know or not, but Titan is a bureaucrat. The only people who can strip him of his powers are Wikia and himself.
10:50
Lord Vehk
I know that.
10:50
Nbajammer
and Wikia won't do it just because x people complained
(where x is the number of dissenting editors)
The procedure exists for those admins who truly abuse their power as given by Wikia - not to be a whinefest for however many people disagree with how the bcrat uses their power
10:52
Titanollante
Okay, I'll write up something just so I don't break it
10:52
Nbajammer
In other words, it isn't an easy-out to get rid of a bcrat just because you don't like it
Titan is one of the fairest admins I know on Wikia
10:52
AnguirusFTW2013
Anyone made the blog?
10:52
Titanollante
"==Rules for administrators== *Don't kick, ban or block people "just for fun.""
What more should I add, Vehk?
10:53
Lord Vehk
I am aware of this fact. However. Should he become abusive of his powers in the eyes of everyone, then we suffer under his wrath. I believe there should be certain...... limitations on his powers.
Kaijuzilla2000 has left the chat.
10:53
Nbajammer
If you approach him about something you dislike or disagree with, I can assure you he wont bite your head off
10:53
Lord Vehk
But if he were to, then there would be nothing we could do.
10:53
Nbajammer
well that goes back to the subjectivity of what is or is not an abuse of powers
Wikia would have to determine if he abused his powers, or if the people complaining just don't like how he does things.
10:54
Titanollante
Vehk, PM maybe?
10:54
Lord Vehk
That's why I think Wikizilla should have more than two Bureaucrats
Kaijuzilla2000 has joined the chat.
10:54
Nbajammer
It actually does
it has 4
10:54
AnguirusFTW2013
Someone needs to spread that things have calmed down.
hi
10:54
Lord Vehk
I've only seen one. Two counting you.
10:55
Nbajammer
one is absent (Troyiscool), one seems to just hold the title (as I see it, GodzillaIsland), Titan, and myself.
and that is part of the problem, I will concede
Titan is left to deal with things pretty much on his own
Thats why some of the Tokupedia hub admins will hold power until things can be worked out
10:55
Kaijuzilla2000
It's actually just "Troycool".
10:55
Lord Vehk
Exactly. We only have pretty much one ACTIVE bureaucrat.
10:55
Nbajammer
sorry.
10:56
Kaijuzilla2000
GodzillaIsland is an Active Bureaucrat.
10:56
Nbajammer
what does he do as a bureaucrat, though?
Why did he not step up during this conflict?
That is my concern
10:57
Lord Vehk
I've never once seen him do anything and I've been here for awhile.
10:57
Kaijuzilla2000
Because he manages the articles.
10:57
Titanollante
GodzillaIsland7.2 never gets involved in these things and barely gets involved with the community
10:57
Nbajammer
I dont mind stepping in to help, but I am a hub admin, I hold no real power on Wikizilla
10:57
Kaijuzilla2000
GodzillaIsland is a article editor.
10:57
Nbajammer
He really should, Titan.
That's part of the role of an admin and bcrat
10:57
Kaijuzilla2000
A rare breed these days.
10:58
Nbajammer
He should not be leaving all the work to you
10:58
Lord Vehk
He handles articles and Titan handles people it seems.
10:58
Nbajammer
Both should be handling both, ideally
10:58
Lord Vehk
Exactly.
10:58
Nbajammer
I dont think its fair to Titan to do it all
10:58
Kaijuzilla2000
GodzillaIsland comes on at times that people aren't there.
10:58
Nbajammer
Alright, I have an idea
Titan, I hope you will agree to this.
Let's take things one step at a time
First problem - one admin and bcrat is not enough
I will step in as a second, on a temporary basis
In the meantime, Id like everyone to discuss who is most qualified to fill the role
11:00
Lord Vehk
There was plenty at one time, but they kept getting demoted for..... abuse of power.
11:00
Nbajammer
Once everyone is in agreement, I suggest they be promoted to bcrat
11:00
Kaijuzilla2000
When I go for sleepy I always check wiki activity. In the mornings, GodzillaIsland has multiple edits.
11:00
Nbajammer
Well this is why everyone should be involved. I will not vote
I want the Wikizilla community to select at least 1 more bcrat
Someone who actively edits articles and can help keep things in order
this way Titan is not on his own dealing with problems
11:01
Kaijuzilla2000
Les?
11:01
Nbajammer
Until such a time as one is elected, I will fill that role.
Once at least 1 is chosen, I will return to using my powers only when requested
11:02
Titanollante
I see
11:02
AnguirusFTW2013
ok
11:02
Nbajammer
After that, I'd like to see you guys repair the chat policy and get the room back up, as I see it as important to a lot of editors
11:02
Lord Vehk
I'm not trying to be pushy here but if possible could I be unbanned and maybe made a chat mod?
11:02
Titanollante
tomorrow I'll hold a community vote for admin, whoever the community thinks should be admin should be an admin
11:02
Nbajammer
I plan to go over that with Titan
11:03
Lord Vehk
The unbanning or the chat mod?
11:03
Nbajammer
I think some unbannings and/or ban reductions may be in order
And since you know I am here, and who I am, I dont want any more problems from anyone
I will be glad to mediate, if desired
Once everyone agrees on the chat policy (and not until then), then open the chat room up
11:04
Lord Vehk
Everyone being who?
11:04
Nbajammer
the admins and bcrats, with community input
11:04
Lord Vehk
All the editors or just the admins?
Ah
11:04
Nbajammer
admins and bcrats should have say, but should consider community input and ideas
(I will not be involved with this, as my role is symbolic)
11:05
Lord Vehk
I agree completely.
11:05
Nbajammer
Titan, it is clear that somethings you see as fun are not so by editors
Be careful what you do and how
That said, it is not acceptable in my eyes for things to happen as they did here
If people would calmly discuss matters, and ask questions, much if not all of this could have been avoided
11:06
Titanollante
Got it.
11:06
Nbajammer
In other words, you may want to hold Titan to set standards to prevent abuse of power, but equally others must not instigate a situation where it may occur
In the near term, if you have issues with Titan, you are welcome to come to me
11:07
AnguirusFTW2013
Ugh
11:07
Lord Vehk
Right.
11:07
Nbajammer
But I don't want to see people threatening to kill him, or overthrow him, or whatever
11:07
AnguirusFTW2013
I have school in 8 hours
11:07
Titanollante
I'm gonna go to sleep now, it's very late
11:07
Nbajammer
That's just as bad as any perceived abuse of power on Titan's part
11:07
Lord Vehk
Ok. Bye Titan
11:07
Titanollante
I'll remember all what's been said in this chat
11:07
AnguirusFTW2013
But I know tons of crazy stuff is gonna happen
o bai
11:08
Titanollante
Bye Angy, Nbajammer, Lord Vehk
11:08
Nbajammer
Titan is my idea acceptable to you?
11:08
Kaijuzilla2000
I'm going to bed.
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