Captier
Round 2
Feminist Horsebane vs Joseph Stalin

**Round 1**
Fem
* Stat establishment, but not only that, stat COMPARISON.
* Celtic's invisibility is countered by Terminators infrared vision and super hearing. Terminator will always know where Celtic is, whether Celtic knows it or not.
* Terminator and Celtic are roughly equal in striking strength, with Terminator having a very firm advantage in lifting strength. * * * * Terminators lifting strength advantage also allows him to break out of Celtic's net.
* Terminator is firmly more durable.
* Celtic's bullet proof armor actually covers very little of his body, he will take damage from Terminator's minigun.

* Alita and Bucky are comparable in stats many stats (speed and strength) at worst, with Bucky's vibranium arm being stronger than Alita is based on their interactions with metal. Neither seems to be wildly faster than the other.
* Bucky's durability is more quantifiable; his opponent not so much.
* The shield and guns Bucky has give him edges in both offense and defense, granting him offense at all ranges and defense to block Alita's hits.

* Zuko offense > BP's defense
* Zuko attacks with a notably higher rate of fire than what T'Challa aim dodges

Stalin
* Terminator sucks at aiming
* The Terminator is slow, worse than your average human. Celtic can launch his Netgun and ensnare The Terminator before he can even shoot
* Celtic has faster quickdraw
* Terminator gets caught in the net
* In the actual fight, Celtic unironically is faster because The Terminator relies way too heavily on his durability.

* Bucky cannot hurt Alita with his ranged options
* Fast, Skilled, and Strong people can knock around Bucky.
* Alita uses any weapon she can get her hands on. Bucky, who has a shield he'll throw and a gun, can have the tables turned on him fairly quickly.
* Bucky's only shown to throw the shield and never actually fight with it in h2h

* Zuko is slow
* Zuko doesn't even dodge
* Black Panther very fast
* BP gets to Zuko and beats him up in melee

**Round 2**
Fem
* Almost none of the antifeats brought up show any kind of actual limit
* The tier is slow. No win condition of mine is dependent on my characters wildly dwarfing their opponents speed.

* Celtics center mass and limbs are entirely exposed and have no protection from bullets
* Celtic's invisibility is kinda bad
* Terminator's anti-feats are pretty much the same as Celtic's
* A brick off between the two clearly favors Terminator
* The slow shooting feats are sometimes slow-mo and 3 seconds is just enough
* Terminator fighting like an idiot isn't true based on the evidence shown
* Terminator does not need to never be hit by Predator to beat him, he is durable enough to take blows and then return them with force far more detrimental to Predator.

* Alita's aim dodging and durability are overrated.
* Bucky overwhelms Alita in melee just as easily as range.
* Bucky can take concrete busting blows to the face and continue melee, he has a far greater margin for error than Alita even before factoring in his shield.
* Bucky fights strong, fast, skilled people. Alita does not.
* If both Bucky and Alita's win conditions are "shield + guns", then obviously Bucky, who actually has and starts with those items, wins.

* "Here is a scan where Zuko makes one attack per second" does not mean "Zuko can only make one attack per second"
* Nice feat posting.
* The speed at which Panther sprints and the speed at which he avoids aim are massively different
* Even if he closes the distance, T'Challa's striking is too weak to overwhelm Zuko in a short timespan
* Conversely, T'Challa has literally zero margin for error. His suit provides little to no esoteric resistance, allowing him to be incapacitated by a taser,and he has never experienced a heat attack like Zuko's.
* Zuko's blasts aren't narrow

Stalin
* Fem's characters are worse than athletic human tier in terms of speed

* Celtic's anti-feats really don't matter in context
* The Terminator ain't human, this doesn't magically throw away the times he's slow.
* Net gun wastes a ton of Terminator's time
* Combi-stick is giga sharp.
* My argument isn't entirely that Celtic can just bully The Terminator because he's stronger, but because The Terminator doesn't dodge like ever. Celtic on the other hand does, as argued before.
* In big brutish fights, his opponents just let The Terminator do whatever he wants and vice-versa
* Slow mo sequences are anti-feats anyways
* The Terminator is strong and durable, but slow. The time it takes to shoot Celtic can be interrupted and The Terminator can be defeated by just being stabbed in the chest.

* Alita cannot be fully penetrated by piercing that goes through several feet of concrete. You'll be scratching her at worst.
* Bucky's aiming feats really aren't that great
* Bucky's grenade launcher kinda sucks
* Bucky per stips just ditches the shield
* Using the Helicopter feat is a bit iffy considering it is stated by WoG that it's basically an adrenaline rush and not a common thing for Cap.
* Bucky throws the Shield, Alita now gets a Shield. If Bucky even gets punched once, he drops the gun. Alita can pick up the gun, or she can throw down while she has the Shield. How Turn Tables.

* Zuko can spam, but he does only in non-real fights and only has a good spam feat once.
* BP easily dodges Zuko spam
* close range blasts aren't that strong
* His only way to create distance is AoE blasts which are weak and hitting with his regular fire which are slow, small, have bad rate of fire. Zuko has 1 second at best before BP can reach him
* The big fire blast feats are bad except for the one.
* Zuko's attacks are fairly slow. Black Panther can close the distance in the time it takes 1 attack to be done by Zuko

**Round 3**
Fem
* Predator has no way to cross distance safely without taking massive damage to his chest, I.E. the way predators are killed in this film regularly
* In melee, Predator is at an extremely heavy durability disadvantage, has no real lifting feats to support how much he grapples, and has no way to prevent himself from being yeeted from the stage
* While Predators speed is wanked and Terminators is antiwanked, even if all the speed arguments were true the difference between "kind of fast for a human" and "kind of slow for a human" is not meaningful enough to outweigh Terminators other advantages on its own.
* Celtic's defense sucks, his invisibility doesn't work in context and he has to either restrain the terminator or blitz him.
* Netgun can't restrain terminator however
* Celtic is also just not fast.
* Celtic using the combi-stick doesn't work when he doesn't have the same knowledge or strength of the T-1000
* Celtic doesn't have a speed advantage regardless
* Terminator being slow matters less than Celtic being slow
* Celtic is not fast, Celtic is not durable, Celtic is not a competent fighter.
* Celtic has too many dead ends in this fight

* Alita's speed is not supported well against bullets
* The grenade launcher anti-feat is more a feat for cap than an anti-feat for bad grenades
* Alita has no real piercing feats
* Alita has no real durability in general
* Bucky does not magically forget that shields can block things when he's under HYDRA control.
* Alita can only dubiously avoid Buckys' bullets, absolutely cannot avoid his explosives, and has never resisted piercing.
* Alita fighting robots cobbled together from scrapyard junk does not give her the feats to disarm someone like Bucky, who is stronger than her, has more applicable skill, and his disarming feats of his own

* Something worth noting is that Zukos' firebending and skill grow considerably from his various training throughout the series.
* Panther is extremely reliant on Zuko only being able to get off one blast, an extremely arbitrary limit there are numerous feats showing Zuko can beat.
* T'Challa cannot, has not, and will not advance at his full speed while dodging perfectly

Stalin
* The argument around invisibility is irrelevant to the debate
*  It'll wrap around him if he can overcome the force of it, which is the main thing that matters. Since it'll waste The Terminator's time and make him do the 3 second minimum aiming again.
* The objective piercing feats we have are tanking bullets and getting jabbed by a metal stick. I've shown Celtic piercing better than the bullets he's tanked
* Celtic does not need to know this (power cell) weakness when it is exploited naturally (at Terminator's center mass).
* The Terminator ripping apart the wire from the Netgun, which Grid couldn't, will give a solid indicator of the threat he is to Celtic.
* I've already stated that a majority of hits landing on Celtic are against opponents that he knows are physically inferior, he is literally unmoved by attacks from humans
* As for The Terminator, my main arguments are that he is slow at aiming and shooting
* In this entire debate we've seen 2 feats of The Terminator doing any semblence of defending himself, and I've shown all the times he tanked in my first response.
* My main wincon is Celtic making it across to The Terminator and piercing him center mass and winning via incap.

* She's pierced by Gerwishka, yes, but isn't fully penetrated.
* 1 Cord still fully penetrates targets
*  She may not be pulling out sick skillz with the shield, but as a big piece of metal to protect herself and slam against Bucky's head is a fair assumption.
* Fem did not respond to the fact that a strike from Alita will cause Bucky to drop his gun
* I was making a point that it is a slow projectile as both Cap and Bucky reacted to it. Alita as I've argued is fast, and Fem has admitted she is of similar speed to Bucky.
* They're roughly equal to each other in stats, but the fact that she pushes for the kill and will utilize her opponents gear gives her the win.

* Some of Zuko's anti-feats ARE from the finale
* Zuko's fire blasts are slow
* In the section showing all the h2h speed feats for Zuko are sort of meaningless when most of the feats show him blocking with his hands or swords
* Overall, BP will eventually gain the win.

Conclusion
I had a ton of fun reading this debate, so props to you two. Here will be my take aways.

Terminator vs Celtic: I went back and forth between this as the rounds went on. I think that Fem raises some good points about how Terminator is giga heavy, and the actual usages of the net as well as Celtic's armor. In comparison, I think Stalin did a great job with dumping anti-feats about Terminator's speed and pointing out how Terminator just lets himself be hit and Celtic will naturally go for the chest anyways. Ultimately, I think I am leaning towards the Terminator. Restraining the Terminator is like a fair argument on one hand, but if he isn't meaningfully restrained by it, why does it matter? Fem even points out the net doesn't disrupt a person firing a gun, and the Terminator won't be floored it per his argument. While I buy the fact that Celtic CAN kill Terminator just by stabbing him, I think he doesn't disrupt Terminator while rushing forward to stop himself from getting riddled with bullets. Winner - Terminator.

Bucky vs Alita: I don't buy that Alita has like, literally no durability being real here. I think the chain-shot feat is pretty real on her end, and the fact that she isn't totally skewered by it is still a real durability feat even if she takes heavy damage from it. On the other hand, as a judge, and not an expert in firearms, this doesn't tell me to whether or not Bucky's gun has absolutely no capability of hurting or disrupting Alita. That said, I think that Alita IS at least a decent aim-dodger, and as Stalin pointed out, Bucky doesn't quite have the best accuracy feats. Otherwise, I think the characters do demonstrate similar-ish stats and skills, but I think that I would slightly give it to Alita based around the argument of Bucky not being able to properly disrupt or meaningfully injure Alita at range, and Bucky will likely discard his shield advantage from up close.

Zuko vs Black Panther: NGL, looking at the majority of the anti-feats posted, I kind of got the impression that Zuko just lowkey sucked? The argument that Black Panther doesn't have heat resistance however made for a good argument that Zuko is a very bad type match up for Black Panther, and that's a huge testament to Fem's debate. That said, I think the character honestly just isn't good, and Stalin piles anti-feat after anti-feat on that makes me question Zuko's ability.

Winner: Stalin