The treason of Donald J. Trump, common law, failures of Joey

Joey
what the hell are we going to do with Gov Northam?
Chex
racism is the worst man, just pure ignorance, killer of dreams, lives..
dk57
nominate him to the supreme court?
Chex
ha
Joey
make him primary putin ball licker?
Chex
or that, too.
Joey
but that would piss donald off too
16:23 Joey
he hates to share...
Monfd
Joey: The people of Virginia elected him, and so he cannot be easily removed -- which is a good thing.
Joey
not in this case but it is the law
Monfd
The Democratic Party can clearly communicate their values, and incentivize him to resign. That's it.
Joey
good thing is only in Northam's view or someone who really just doesn't get it....
Monfd
Joey: You think parties should have overrule power on the choices of the people?
Monfd
That sounds like an oligarchy.
Joey
it's awfully hard to hold Republicans to their racist views if the dems can't even hold their party members to those same views.
Monfd
The GOP isn't a valid political party.
Monfd
We don't need to pretend they are.
Joey
this isn't about oligarchy this is about racism
Monfd
They're a white nationalist party that colludes with enemies of the republic.
16:28 Joey
exactly
Monfd
And if they were a foreign government, we'd kill them with drone strikes.
Joey
there was a terrible story by Martin Bashir that got him fired from MSNBC...it was all about this slave overseer in the caribeam who would make one slave defecate into the mouth of another slave if he was caught lying.....
Monfd
Relevance?
Joey
Now do I think this is something we ought to do with racists? Of course not....
Joey
but then I think of Donald........
Joey
oh well....
Joey
I am if not civilized.....
Chex
haha
Monfd
Donald is an enemy of the republic.
Monfd
He's guilty of capital offenses.
Monfd
He conspired with an enemy nation as they attacked our country.
Monfd
This is the definition of treason.
Monfd
The need for a formal declaration of war is anachronistic, as we haven't declared war since 1942.
Monfd
A state of war exists between Russia and the USA.
Joey
it really is....sadly it has to happen or supposedly it has to happen under a declaration of war....
Monfd
I entirely disagree.
Joey
we've never declared war on Russia so no enemy....
Monfd
A formal declaration of war is anachronistic.
Joey
oh you can disagree all you like but then the law is like that......if you don't like it get it changed....not by opinion buy by vote...or as you said Northam was elected we can't just remove him
Monfd
False.
Monfd
The law is what we make it.
Monfd
The law is a bunch of ideas of some people that got written down.
Joey
actually no it's what we agree on.....
Joey
and sure sometimes we agree on shit laws
Monfd
And there are a multitude of legal doctrines and jurisprudential paradigms when interpreting the law.
Joey
like that crazy 3 strike rule
Joey
putting people in jail for 20 years for smoking a joint...
Monfd
My assertion is much closer to the actual nuanced way law is actually interpreted across time than your "There's nothing we can do, folks!" approach.
Monfd
Even though you imply your approach is the more pragmatic or sober.
Joey
I never said there's nothing we can do...I just said if you don't like it get it changed
Monfd
If you don't think my level of nuance is *routinely* incorporated in legal decisions, I'd encourage you to read Roe v. Wade.
Joey
you said that monfd...be careful of how you try to put words in my mouth
Monfd
There, you'll read Justice Blackmun discuss Roman philosophy from the second century CE and how it relates to American law today.
Monfd
Or how the Hindus differ from the Muslims in their interpretation of conception of life.
Joey
you level of nuance is your own....I tend to read the law as written...
Monfd
That's weird.
Monfd
Given we live in a common law system.
Joey
again you are assuming that your view is the only one that counts
Monfd
Common law is a synthesis of the law that's written and the decisions that are interpreted and formed about those written laws an past decisions.
Joey
stop pulling that shit with me Monfd....
Monfd
1. The United States last declares war in 1942
Monfd
2. In the post-WW2 era, the Great Powers come together to form the UN and make sweeping restrictions on warfighting powers in order to prevent WW3
Joey
I allow you whatever view you like but in the end the only way we get to live with each other is by respecting the views of others no matter how much you might disagree.
Monfd
3. In the post-WW2 era -- the era we still live in -- states are highly incentivized to go around the post-WW2 era restrictions on warfighting. These go-arounds are myriad
Joey
How many major conflicts have occured since WW2 undeclared?
Monfd
4. They include the AUMF, calling deployments of hundreds of thousands of soldiers 'police actions', and invoking terrorism to expressly violate international treaties, e.g. the Geneva accords
Joey
I think at last count it was 10
Monfd
5. Leveraging the lack of a formal declaration of war, in this context, is meaningless
Monfd
Joey: I don't know the relevance of you question
Monfd
Make the points you want to make
Joey
and sadly it doesn't matter when it comes to actually putting the law in action....
Monfd
Thank you for the debate, Joey.
Monfd
Seeing as you're only going to repeat your thesis which has been challenged, I so no point in continuing
Monfd
Post-truth politics (also called post-factual politics[1] and post-reality politics)[2] is a political culture in which debate is framed largely by appeals to emotion disconnected from the details of policy, and by the repeated assertion of talking points to which factual rebuttals are ignored.
Monfd
Your viewpoint is incredibly uniformed on this topic
Monfd
According to you, since the words abortion and privacy don't occur in the US Constitution, Americans don't have those rights
Monfd
And, yet, SCOTUS, of course, has used the judicial review of law concept that is essential in our British-borne common law system to establish those precise rights
Monfd
The point of courts is two-fold at minimum: 1) to establish justice by being flexible, and 2) establish predictability by being firm. These two goals are in tension
Monfd
The more you can interpret the law, the more equity or justice you can create, but the less predictable statutes become
Monfd
The English invented https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Court_of_Chancery about 900 years ago for this very purpose.
Nick1 has joined ([email protected])
Monfd
Even in the 1200s, English jurists understood if you only rigidly interpret the law, you get avoidable injustice.
Monfd
This means this problem was already sufficiently established by the 1200s so as to provoke the creation of such a court of equity.
Monfd
Joey's argument here, today, is to return to this pre-1200s legal landscape where American citizens can promise massive changes in foreign policy that precisely match the geopolitical goals of enemies -- as listed by DoD policy -- with no concerns for treason as long as an anachronistic toggle hasn't been switched
Monfd
Again, acting as if our 240-year old system, composed of 325 million people is UTTERLY POWERLESS to property conclude the appropriate charges for these serious crimes by Donald J. Trump
You have been kicked out of the channel
Joey has kicked Monfd (Farewell your Lameness!) (—I-n-v-i-s-i-o-n—)
You have joined the channel
Monfd has joined (~monfd@2601:205:8000:42ed:a08b:55b5:1012:7541)
Topic: <Monfd> AOC up in the HizzHouse.
AndroidUS set the topic at: Jan 29, 2019 at 1:07 PM
Mode: +tnl 65
16:47
Created at: Jan 4, 2007 at 4:36 PM
Monfd
Joey is wrong. We can have our courts interpret our statues, analyze the history of war declarations in the 20th century, judge the serious of Donald J. Trump's crimes, and then act according -- precisely as our 1000-year old common law system prescribes
Joey has changed mode: -o+b Monfd *!*@2601:205:8000:42ed:a08b:55b5:1012:7541
You have been kicked out of the channel
Joey has kicked Monfd (well it's been fun Raindonna «Shitlisted»)