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- [22:00] <minusX> Hey guys I have a question
- [22:01] <minusX> Local store does a few 8 person drafts and often the top two split, wer needs a winner for it to be submitted so they go "Who wants to points" and people go "Rock paper scissor" and shudder
- [22:01] <minusX> should I care about that part?
- [22:01] <JoeH> Yes.
- [22:01] <bearz> Yeah, you should
- [22:03] <amullins> I would make an announcement before the event that this is not acceptable behavior and can result in a disqualification. Then inform them if they'd like to offer some sort of prize split they should call a judge so they can talk to you before anything happens that might get them DQ'd.
- [22:05] <minusX> The store just is saying "who wants the points"
- [22:05] <minusX> So how is this handled instead?
- [22:06] <bearz> The players going R/P/S is Bad.
- [22:06] <bearz> The store asking "who wants the points" is probably to be discouraged.
- [22:06] * bprill2 (~bprill@.hsd1.fl.comcast.net) Quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
- [22:07] <bearz> I would privately talk to the store
- [22:07] <bearz> And why this isn't OK (do you know why it's not OK?)
- [22:07] * bprill_ (~bprill@.hsd1.fl.comcast.net) has joined #
- [22:12] <minusX> It's no ok because this effects the integrity of the tourney
- [22:12] <minusX> affects?
- [22:12] <bearz> Affects.
- [22:12] <bearz> Yes, sure, that's a platitude
- [22:12] <bearz> Why is it /actually/ a problem besides some amorphous concept of "integrity"?
- [22:14] <bprill_> Ooooo
- [22:14] <JoeH> Eeeee
- [22:15] <bprill_> What we talkin bout Willis?
- [22:15] <minusX> Well in the tournment rules it falls under collusion and bribery
- [22:15] <minusX> [22:00] <minusX> Hey guys I have a question
- [22:15] <minusX> [22:01] <minusX> Local store does a few 8 person drafts and often the top two split, wer needs a winner for it to be submitted so they go "Who wants to points" and people go "Rock paper scissor" and shudder
- [22:15] <minusX> [22:01] <minusX> should I care about that part?
- [22:15] <JoeH> minusX: Why is that in there and so harsh, though?
- [22:15] <bearz> Are you familiar with some of the weird restrictions that Magic events in Europe and parts of Canada have?
- [22:15] <JoeH> Does the DCI /really/ hate RPS and/or dice?
- [22:15] <amullins> bprill_ needs to stop phasing
- [22:16] * bprill_ is now known as bprill
- [22:16] <minusX> I don't know the weird euro/canadadadada rules
- [22:16] <minusX> Is it the fact everyone gets product or somthing?
- [22:16] <bearz> Yes, that is one of the things they do in parts of Canada.
- [22:16] <bprill> There was a fee weird GPs in German where players got TVs and playstations instead of cash
- [22:18] <bprill> So...if we play Rock Paper Scissors for the winner, what's deciding the winner? Luck or skill?
- [22:18] <minusX> luck
- [22:18] <bprill> Luck. Pure luck
- [22:18] <bprill> And if you play the slots...what determines if you win? Luck? Or skill?
- [22:19] <minusX> Luck and RNG that's against you
- [22:19] <bprill> Rng?
- [22:19] <bearz> Random Number Generator
- [22:19] <bearz> (or God, depending on your faith)
- [22:19] <JoeH> Really Neat God?
- [22:19] <bprill> So, you get points...and 1st place based on luck?
- [22:20] <JoeH> bprill: I think minusX might be able to walk the rest of the path without this level of handholding.
- [22:20] <minusX> haha
- [22:20] <bprill> Sounds an awful lot like gambling to some desk jockey making policy
- [22:21] <minusX> So the rest of the it was skill just to be able to gamble
- [22:21] <bprill> Really any "gamble" aspect has to be shut out
- [22:21] <bprill> Stomped out with a vengeance
- [22:21] <bprill> To keep magic in certain countries
- [22:21] <JoeH> We should do away with the die roll to determine who chooses to play or draw.
- [22:21] <bearz> Higher ELO goes first.
- [22:22] <bearz> Excuse me, higher planeswalker level.
- [22:22] <JoeH> Also, ban Goblin Test Pilot and Ral Zarek's ultimate.
- [22:22] <minusX> So what's a reg REL event to do at the end when splits happen?
- [22:22] <bprill> JoeH: Is that a rhetorical question? Or are you just being glib?
- [22:22] <bearz> minusX: The split should be independent of the result.
- [22:22] <amullins> *pulls out dci card* "Well I'm a level 52 planeswalker, what about you?"
- [22:22] <bprill> They play or draw, or drop
- [22:22] <bearz> ^
- [22:23] <JoeH> Did I ask a question? Probably choice #2, though.
- [22:23] <bprill> There's no incentive to play
- [22:23] <bprill> Just drop
- [22:23] <minusX> WER complains on draws
- [22:23] <minusX> so they just drop them?
- [22:23] <bprill> You asked about doing away with the die roll to go first
- [22:23] <amullins> Why does it complain about draws, is this being run as single elimination?
- [22:23] <minusX> Yes
- [22:23] <bprill> Ah
- [22:23] <minusX> 8 person drafts that fire when we get enough people
- [22:23] <bprill> Then yes, you need a winner
- [22:24] <bearz> I assumed this was for the finals
- [22:24] <bprill> If it's single elim
- [22:24] <minusX> Yeah "we want to split"
- [22:24] <minusX> So that another draft can fire
- [22:24] <bearz> You can double-drop them from the finals
- [22:24] <amullins> One of them can choose to drop. If they care about planeswalker points then they can still play for that
- [22:24] <bearz> Or, seriously, most people just freaking draw in this situation
- [22:24] <bearz> It's +EV for them both
- [22:24] <amullins> You can't draw in a single elimination event
- [22:24] <minusX> ^
- [22:24] <minusX> WER says "We need another round DDDDDDDDD:"
- [22:25] <bearz> WER sucks.
- [22:25] <JoeH> ^
- [22:25] <bearz> Anyway, sorry, I probably talked myself in a circle with that part
- [22:25] <bprill> I don't think I have ever not scooped to my opponent after agreeing on a prize split
- [22:25] <bprill> It's not worth the conversation to decide otherwise
- [22:25] <minusX> Well last night it was "Hey someone has to win" "Uhhhh" between both players
- [22:26] <bprill> Then you say "play it out for the points, or one of you can drop"
- [22:26] <bprill> Or concede
- [22:26] <JoeH> I've just had players decide. It'll happen eventually.
- [22:26] <bprill> It whatever I don't care
- [22:26] <amullins> Would it invalidate the event if you just double drop them?
- [22:26] <minusX> But the issue is they wanted to randomly decide who dropped
- [22:27] * bearz is now known as bearz|afk
- [22:27] <bprill> Whelp...
- [22:27] <bprill> I guess they decided both
- [22:27] <bprill> Here's some paperwork
- [22:30] <minusX> So should the store just decide if there's the risk of them rolling?
- [22:32] * bprill (~bprill@c.hsd1.fl.comcast.net) Quit (Later, nerds!)
- [22:33] <JoeH> There should just be an announcement beforehand.
- [22:34] <JoeH> Probably another one before they sit down for the finals, too.
- [22:24] <minusX> So that another draft can fire
- [22:24] <bearz> You can double-drop them from the finals
- [22:24] <amullins> One of them can choose to drop. If they care about planeswalker points then they can still play for that
- [22:24] <bearz> Or, seriously, most people just freaking draw in this situation
- [22:24] <bearz> It's +EV for them both
- [22:24] <amullins> You can't draw in a single elimination event
- [22:24] <minusX> ^
- [22:24] <minusX> WER says "We need another round DDDDDDDDD:"
- [22:25] <bearz> WER sucks.
- [22:25] <JoeH> ^
- [22:25] <bearz> Anyway, sorry, I probably talked myself in a circle with that part
- [22:25] <bprill> I don't think I have ever not scooped to my opponent after agreeing on a prize split
- [22:25] <bprill> It's not worth the conversation to decide otherwise
- [22:25] <minusX> Well last night it was "Hey someone has to win" "Uhhhh" between both players
- [22:26] <bprill> Then you say "play it out for the points, or one of you can drop"
- [22:26] <bprill> Or concede
- [22:26] <JoeH> I've just had players decide. It'll happen eventually.
- [22:26] <bprill> It whatever I don't care
- [22:26] <amullins> Would it invalidate the event if you just double drop them?
- [22:26] <minusX> But the issue is they wanted to randomly decide who dropped
- [22:27] * bearz is now known as bearz|afk
- [22:27] <bprill> Whelp...
- [22:27] <bprill> I guess they decided both
- [22:27] <bprill> Here's some paperwork
- [22:30] <minusX> So should the store just decide if there's the risk of them rolling?
- [22:32] * bprill (~bprill@c.hsd1.fl.comcast.net) Quit (Later, nerds!)
- [22:33] <JoeH> There should just be an announcement beforehand.
- [22:34] <JoeH> Probably another one before they sit down for the finals, too.
- [22:34] <amullins> Well they probably won't even sit down for the finals
- [22:34] <minusX> ya
- [22:35] <JoeH> It might take a bit for the community to catch on, but they'll soon learn that randomly doing it is not the way it can be done.
- [22:35] <JoeH> Presumably they report to someone. Have that person tell them individually when they're heading into the finals?
- [22:35] <minusX> It's kinda small, so I can get them to do it right pretty easily I think
- [22:36] <minusX> But it's been a thing at all regular REL events I think :\
- [22:36] <JoeH> If you talk to the TO about it and let them know how much of a problem it is, the TO can help try to change the environment.
- [22:46] * bprill (~bprill@c-.hsd1.fl.comcast.net) has joined #
- [22:46] <minusX> Thanks a lot guys, and bprill when he wasn't phasing
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