JJBA OCT #8 R1M21 Quality Deliberations

Judge CleverRuse -

CARC:

I have three main hangups on CARC’s strat I want to address before going into what I really love, and I’ll tackle them in rising severity:

1) The strat does tend to ramble quite a bit. It is a very long piece for a strategy that is relatively straightforward on a map that is relatively simple. There were quite a few times throughout that I could very much see what the intended play or tech was about two paragraphs before the strat had finished describing it, and the further description did not add too much to its execution. Not the biggest problem all told, but it does hurt the readability and elegance of the whole strat a bit.

2) Mio’s under-the-floor approach is quite an all-for-nothing option for her. I don’t have a problem with how she accesses the sublayer or even her tactics once down there (with a minor note that she has no relevant skill in using the weapons she is rapidly switching between, though with their straightforward use I ultimately see it working out fine) but it is a play that entirely relies on her teammate opening vantage points for her to use, the teammate that she has left to fend against a 2v1 until he is able to create those openings for her. Each hole being created every 5 seconds requires another injury on Wanderlei’s part as well, and when paired with the limited radius means the scaling is quite slow unless he is taking several stab wounds to facilitate it. If these openings aren’t able to be made by Wanderlei being overwhelmed, she’ll end up being in a position very difficult to undo without telegraphing herself very clearly.

3) Wanderlei very much overplays [DEM]’s effectiveness in most of its applications. I can maybe buy that a small knick of the ankle can translate to full-on holes in the floor when magnified 5x within that 1m radius, but unless that knick is deep enough to severely compromise his mobility they would end up being scratches outside of that at best. A taser transforming into both a flashbang and weaponized lightning bolt through the stand (50k volt taser vs several million volt lightning) and a stomp becoming debilitatingly painful even if doubled are a big asks, as is the idea of tanking two aggressive stand users by himself while his teammate sets up below. The possibility of being stunned by the opponent’s stand is expected to be dealt with passively with the aura of [DEM], despite Wanderlei himself purposefully moving slowly and not having a teammate to assist until enough holes are made in the floor to facilitate it.

All that being said, the ultimate goal of the strat is a very sound one, a war of attrition against both an almost invisible sniper and a tank that hurts the opponent the more they hurt it. Assuming everything goes well in establishing the Carydbis/Scylla play, it is an absolute nightmare to navigate for the enemy and very convincingly grinds things into an eventual win. The logistics for this lining up are reasonable, save the scaling issue on the floor holes mentioned above, while the team navitages the arena and incoming enemy very wisely. The subtler parts of Mio’s ability are put to great creative use and serve as focal points for the rest of the strat to hang off of. Great care is given in dealing with each of the enemy stand users, both avoiding and weaponizing curses are both standouts in this regard. Great fundamentals are demonstrated all around, backed up with some phenomenal theming and character writing that makes the long read ultimately more than worth it. Seven.

LKA:

Much like the opposing strat, I do think LKA stretches what is reasonably possible of their characters while otherwise giving a fairly sound rushdown play. The plan is to divide and conquer, splitting up in an attempt to run down the enemy before they get much of a chance to get anything started. This is a solid basis to build from, both opponents are scalers that get more tools or stronger effects with time so the analysis is correct, but my problem is with the extremely confident timeline the team insists on as a whole.

Kylian in particular intends to put down the tank of the duo within a handful of seconds before his ability procs, which I just don’t see happening. The defense against the ability should this not work relies largely on mitigation via distance than avoidance altogether, meaning that [Rigamortus] is going to be taking constant damage with its meager Durability unless things go perfectly here. I am a big fan of how the backpack material is used in conjunction with the stunning ability, platforms to avoid the uneven footing and shields and catches for intercepting targets is some great creative application of an otherwise very straightforward ability. There is a very strong argument here for some extended outfighting if supported properly with a teammate, but with how LKA splits themselves up I don’t see this being possible without some big changes in the overall pacing of the plan.

Chix, meanwhile, attempts to corral the shark to keep her from utilizing her mobility to keep the pair defensive. The problems here reflect those with Kylian’s approach; there is little that justifies the interaction being over within a handful of seconds, let alone getting in at all in that amount of time. ‘We spot an opening, then she’s done’ is what Chix’s offensive strategy boils down to with little to create that opening in the first place outside of getting a Curse off. While I am famously a sucker for good CQC choreography and planning, which LKA has proven both in the past and in this strat to be quite impressive at, there needs to be a structure surrounding it to avoid sounding very overconfident and undersell the opponent to a punishing degree.

The rest of the strat assumes that one or the other of the above approaches has worked flawlessly, which is difficult to justify for all the stated reasons. The whole plan would have greatly benefited with a more teamwork-oriented approach; Chix and Kylian as a pair have a devastatingly high potential for a prolonged midrange game of hit and run mixed with stunned beatdowns, which would have much more convincingly transitioned into this ‘cleanup’ phase as presented in section 3. The individual elements of every engagement in the LKA strat are quite well outlined and play into the characters’ strengths and limits reasonably, but the grander scale of planning makes so many assumptions and underestimates the opponents’ potential so much that even a perfect combat outline would have a hard time bringing things back into a reasonable winstate. Six.

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Judge RocketLlama:

Starting with LKA yall do a pretty solid job. Your offensive pressure is done exceptionally well, and your understanding of your character's physical capabilities is clear in how you set up your moves. Kylian toolkit is used very well, taking advantage of limited resources to pull off fun offensive maneuvers and keep up solid pressure on Wanderlei. Chix, on the other hand, is played a little basic for my takes, and while he does exert some strong pressure on Mio I think that the strategy tends to underestimate how slippery she is and how much of a threat she can pose.

And generally that is the great sin of this strat: it fails to fully understand and respect the parts of CARC’s kits that can prove the most challenging. Kylian brings a blistering offense, but his stand is vulnerable and tussling with a dedicated tank like Wanderlei who can deal out nasty AOE damage and failing to account for that convincingly leaves you seeming vulnerable. Beyond that, your divide and conquer method is fine, but building more combo techniques and being more flexible in focusing down a specific target could have provided some much needed flexibility in handling opponents who are heavily limited by tempo, and may be vulnerable at different times during the match.

Overall what you have done is something that at its best moves blisteringly fast and shows just how threatening you can be when in your sweet spot. However other aspects of your strategy suffer, especially in the defensive department, due to some handwaving of your opponent's tenacity and mobility. However even with those underestimations this is still a strategy with an incredibly potent and volatile offense and decent enough planning otherwise to earn a low 7/10.

Moving on to CARC you guys do a great job of creating something that, while not perfect, does a convincing job of tackling two tough opponents. Focusing on Wanderlei first I think that his general playpattern is well considered. The creativity with how different types of damage are integrated into offensive, defensive, and combat utility are impressive and convincing. By nature, he is a character that forces you to consider tradeoffs in every move he makes. There are some cases where I think that a move may cost a bit more health than it pays back in value, and being a bit more intentional with when and where terrain mauling is happening could have been a more efficient use of precious hitpoints. Even with that I think he is playing quite well.

Mio, on the other hand, plays like a true ambush predator. She hides below and aims to peck at opponents while Wanderlei acts as a distraction. This is again a strategy that is well executed, but not maximized. I think that generally more intentional coordination in the timing of attacks to cover moments where Mio or Wanderlie are vulnerable with a cooldown active could have allowed for some insane mixups, and using breaks in tempo to bait opponents into overextending could have led to some incredibly difficult dilemmas for your opponents to deal with. I also want to note that I think that it is a bit of a blunder to leave Wanderlei alone and a bit vulnerable early in the match, but not one that is insurmountable.

Overall I think that y'all put together a strategy that has an incredibly strong core and great individual execution, but lacks a bit on maximizing what the characters can do in tandem with each other. Beyond that, I want to note that at points the strategy overstays and overexplains certain things in a way that can feel a bit sluggish at points and hurts the flow of the strategy. I waffled a bit on scores, but ultimately I feel that with some of the gaps that I saw, a high 7/10 feels justified here.

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Judge AtomicPeace:

CARC:

CARC goes for a very brutal gameplan here, really taking advantage of Wanderlei’s destructive force amplification to make a dangerous area of effect, as well as shaping the stage to their liking while Mio lurks below in proper shark fashion.

Firstly, I do share some concerns that Wanderlei’s applications of his force amplification are oversold at points. I don’t think it’s to the extent that some version of what’s trying to be carried out can’t be done, but with a maximum 5x force multiplier, sometimes the Stand’s output is far overestimated when considering the input damage.

That being my biggest gripe, I think the broad strokes plays here are solid. You take great advantage of the level of influence you have on the stage to force your war of attrition on the opponent, and devastate them with your firepower.

Overall, the strategy was sound, respected the opponent’s abilities and CARC played how they needed to, but there is an undercurrent of reliance on some overestimated points that makes me feel like it’s going to be a bit harder for them than they anticipate. All that said, I’m going to give this a high 7/10.

LKA:

My feeling towards this strategy is similar to my thoughts on CARC’s, in that the strategy is broadly good, but has a consistent weak spot that ends up dragging it down. Here, I feel like rather than overestimating your own abilities, it was that you underestimated your opponent’s.

Kylian engaging Wanderlei in the most concentrated area of his ability is perhaps the most egregious example here, and certainly the one that stuck out to me the most. Given the potency of his abilities and his sheer durability, the fact that you plan around taking him out in 5 *seconds* is way underselling his capabilities. This also extends to Chix’s engagement with Mio, which also feels like it undersells how potentially dangerous she is up close. While Chix is no slouch hand to hand, Mio is a literal shark with deadly weapons, and has a similarly movement altering Stand ability.

My problem, overall, is that I think a good understanding of your own Stands is definitely shown, you have some clever tech with Rigamortus that lets you play a really solid defensive game, and Chix seems to play well within the stage to take full advantage of his ability’s buffs. But, with how dangerously you play and how you go about engaging with your opponents in the micro of your offense, I think you’re liable to get yourself RETIREd very quickly. I feel like if this was a slight overestimation it wouldn’t be as bad, but with how substantially the timetable is overestimated in your offense, I think you don’t give yourself enough room for the significantly higher likelihood of a more drawn out brawl. All this considered, I’m going to give this a 5/10.