Marth DK JMU Export

Welcome to the beginning of the #marthvsdkjmu channel.
Jink - 03/27/2017
hi
MrLz - 03/27/2017
hi
Asriel Dreemurr - 03/27/2017
ayy
EpitomeOfCake - 03/27/2017
o/
Arasz - 03/27/2017
o/
Shifty | 19 - 03/27/2017
well met 4Head
MrLz - 03/27/2017
how does marth beat dk
how do u do the edgegaurd
Shifty | 19 - 03/27/2017
I've never played against a good dk in my life
but i assume given good spacing, the marth can grab ledge and do an instant ledge hop down air to cover everything
(that also assumes that DK is using up B at the ledge or below the ledge)
fsmash is probably fine if he's above the ledge
Asriel Dreemurr - 03/27/2017
Marth does edgeguard DK like a mofo
MrLz - 03/27/2017
what do when they recover high
theres like 1 dk in fl thats good
Asriel Dreemurr - 03/27/2017
You laugh at them because a DK that recovers high against marth is a failure
MrLz - 03/27/2017
and i never want to lose to him
Asriel Dreemurr - 03/27/2017
It's a free f smash
MrLz - 03/27/2017
plats :o
Asriel Dreemurr - 03/27/2017
fair then
MrLz - 03/27/2017
cc
Asriel Dreemurr - 03/27/2017
Tru
MrLz - 03/27/2017
hes got good di then recovers to plat
feel like best thing to do is fthrow/dthrow offstage then 50/50 kill
:thinking:
Jerek - 03/27/2017
if he's recovering to platforms can't you just upair us forever
Asriel Dreemurr - 03/27/2017
IMO the hardest thing for DK in this matchup is getting edgeguarded, and there's a lot of hard things for DK in here, which shows just how hellish it is
Jerek - 03/27/2017
I feel like DK is very combo-able by marth once the marth adjusts to what DK is
Shifty | 19 - 03/27/2017
true. I don't think dk recovering high is all that good. I mean, DK doesn't have a good way down against a marth that can juggle. shitty aerial drift as well
Asriel Dreemurr - 03/27/2017
Your best bet is a mid or low, probably low
Because I'm not sure but the hitbox miiight keep you safe against a dair, probably now tho
It's disjointed as fuck
Legend of Lando - 03/27/2017
@Shifty | 19 to add what you just said Marth has enough speed to shark with aerials and catch dk recovering high..
Asriel Dreemurr - 03/27/2017
And dtilt is very safe, given Dk has a completely horizontal recovery
Legend of Lando - 03/27/2017
@Asriel Dreemurr v tru
Asriel Dreemurr - 03/27/2017
Like I said, this is the worst part of the matchup
Dk can actually kinda do shit on ground but is so awful getting back to ledge it's pretty much a guaranteed ko
Arasz - 03/27/2017
ok, what are dks option in neutral, esp on the ground? what are his tools to get in and pressure
Shifty | 19 - 03/27/2017
@Asriel Dreemurr the thing is, though, is that yeah dtilt is safe and everything but it doesn't reach low enough to hit DK. Not confirmed on that but I'm pretty sure\
Asriel Dreemurr - 03/27/2017
Depends on if they go straight to the ledge or need a bit of lift
Dk practically has a straight horzontal
Arasz - 03/27/2017
is there a link to all his hitboxes somewhere? dks i meant
:eyes:
Asriel Dreemurr - 03/27/2017
I think so, somewhere on smashboards
On mobile rn so I can't get digging
Arasz - 03/27/2017
found it
https://smashboards.com/threads/donkey-kong-hitboxes-and-frame-data.298620/
Smashboards
Donkey Kong Hitboxes and Frame Data
Credits to SuperDoodleMan for most of the frame data. Head Butt Escape Speed Formula from Mew2King. Images Compiled and Edited by Strong Bad. "Hitbox...

I wanna see the ledgegrabrange out of his upb
Arasz - 03/27/2017
if anyone from eu actually wants to netplay the mu over the course of the week, dm me
Jerek - 03/27/2017
I think the dtilt doesn't hit the lowest possible sweetspot except on yoshis
The Man - 03/27/2017
Heelloooo
Ringler - 03/27/2017
aight i can be up for a bit
dttam
down to talk about marth
The Man - 03/27/2017
Alrighty, DK's combo game on Marth is pretty solid at low percents, and d tilt has the "hit confirm" thing at mid percents
DK's range and frame data are weaker than Marth's, but he can still counter his approaches with enough distance to go about
Ringler - 03/27/2017
pretty much all of dks grounded moves are tricks
dtilt wont lead into much but if you get conditioned to hold shield you get grabbed super easy
The Man - 03/27/2017
DK becomes better the less he has to approach the enemy
D tilt combos into JC grab at around 40-50 percent
Ringler - 03/27/2017
when i do a tilt against marth its because i want them to feel like they have to change something about there play
if theyre using downtilt, il downtilt pre-emptivly to try to get them to stop
The Man - 03/27/2017
Our dtilt is one frame faster to be fair
Ringler - 03/27/2017
shorter range, worse disjoint but its point isnt to beat downtilt, but to make you think i can beat downtilt
if im downtilting its because i want the marth to stop doing something
The Man - 03/27/2017
I can see that
Ringler - 03/27/2017
i dont really use any of dks other tilts, but ftilt might be something to look out for as marth
The Man - 03/27/2017
DK's f tilt has more range, but is even slower
Ringler - 03/27/2017
i dont really use any of dks other tilts, but ftilt might be something to look out for as marth
not really something to be scared of, just be aware of the range it has
The Man - 03/27/2017
More distance between both characters is necessary for it to work
Ringler - 03/27/2017
yeah
if i use ftilt, its because i feel forced to use it due to the spacing
The Man - 03/27/2017
Again, it's an approach stuffer, combined with dd and wd back, it does its job well
DK's DD is amazing vs Marth, he can even avoid an f smash by simply DDing
Ringler - 03/27/2017
the better the dk, the less likely it will be for them to be put in a situation where ftilt is good
yeah marths biggest worry is dash dance grab
The Man - 03/27/2017
F tilt can be angled too, making it useful to stuff out attacks from above, but again, spacing is everything
Ringler - 03/27/2017
when i play against marth, i want them to be throwing out all the aerials they feel comfertable with, then i just dd grab
The Man - 03/27/2017
Our down b def out ranges anything he has, the first two quakes are disjointed as hell
Ringler - 03/27/2017
unless you are significantly better than the dk, marth should mostly use defensive aerials like retreating fair
approaching fair is super easy to grab
also its mandatory you autocancel your fairs and can dash back fast
The Man - 03/27/2017
Agreed, but remember neither character has to approach each other, I NEVER approach vs Marth, you'll find he's significantly easier to fight when he comes to you
Ringler - 03/27/2017
otherwise il be able to get a grab easily
to me this matchup boils down to who is making the opponent feel more threatened
The Man - 03/27/2017
Yeah, whoever makes the first mistake, followed by who can apply the most mental pressure
Ringler - 03/27/2017
i threaten marth by charging my punch and bairing/grabbing anything that isnt well spaced
marth threatens me by being able to control stage
The Man - 03/27/2017
DK takes this on Dreamland imo
Ringler - 03/27/2017
i dont like dreamland against marth because it makes this matchup even more of a waiting game then it already is
but i dont think its a bad stage in the mu
The Man - 03/27/2017
It gives you more room however, you gotta go defense vs Marth
Ringler - 03/27/2017
true
The Man - 03/27/2017
I agree otherwise though, avoid small stages vs Marth however
Yoshi's, no good
His sword will destroy you on there
Ringler - 03/27/2017
one thing i think marths could do better is realizing that they dont necessarily need to be throwing out aerials to control stage and pressure dk
you can pressure dk just by avoiding his bairs and throwing out aerials in places he's likely to go
The Man - 03/27/2017
They can do it on Yoshi's, this forces DK in his shield, or on a plat, which they can cover with up tilt or uair(edited)
Ringler - 03/27/2017
if dks on a platform, you can jump while in center stage and fair.
the point of the fair isnt to hit dk, but to limit his ability to control center
The Man - 03/27/2017
Right, but he could shield that, then wd oos off the plat
Ringler - 03/27/2017
im not getting the visual across correctly
marth never goes onto a platform
The Man - 03/27/2017
I know what you're saying, pressure the DK by limiting his movement, eventually backing him into a corner
Ringler - 03/27/2017
marth just places his aerials so if dk tries to run off a platform he gets hit
yeah
The Man - 03/27/2017
DK's back throw kills early on Yoshi's right?
Ringler - 03/27/2017
yeah
especially with bad di
dks backthrow becomes a true kill throw on yoshis
The Man - 03/27/2017
I like this
Ringler - 03/27/2017
backthrow is busted on yoshis
The Man - 03/27/2017
That's if you can grab a Marth though
Ringler - 03/27/2017
when a spacie dis backthrow down at ledge they can die at like 60
The Man - 03/27/2017
Both characters can edge guard rather well ofc
Ringler - 03/27/2017
yeah, marths dtilt is good cause it can call out a lazy recovery from dk
fsmash can cover an attempt to avoid a downtilt
The Man - 03/27/2017
It's a good idea to start up up b when you're right in his face offstage, otherwise he can predict you like going below the ledge to use magnet, and dair you for your efforts
Ringler - 03/27/2017
but dk can recover lower than dtilt hits so grabbing ledge and dairing can be good
edgegaurding dk is a big mixup
The Man - 03/27/2017
That's what I'm saying
Btw, aerial up b is frame 2
Ringler - 03/27/2017
its a really good idea to grab ledge when you can against dk
yeah dks aerial up b just straight beats marths
The Man - 03/27/2017
That move is busted, if only DK had a faster jump squat
Ringler - 03/27/2017
i drop from ledge and up b marths recovery attempt, preferably with some extra ledge invuln
it gimps at super low percents
The Man - 03/27/2017
Bair is amazing offstage as well vs Marth
It's too bad we can't turn around off stage
I would love to spam bair to get back
Ringler - 03/27/2017
thatd be sick
if im recovering from super high sometimes il charge cancel turnaround
The Man - 03/27/2017
Yes...it would
Shit, I forgot about that
Ringler - 03/27/2017
it would be nice if we were like puff
dk mid tier?!?!?
The Man - 03/27/2017
We kind of are tbh
Ringler - 03/27/2017
i just mean getting to turn around with double jump
The Man - 03/27/2017
We have the air speed and bair, it's just nerfed
At least we have a better fall speed
...
EE Dusty MD - 03/27/2017
Wrong chat lol
The Man - 03/27/2017
Ahh
Carry on dear heart
...what else was there?
DK's punch is great in neutral vs Marth, again as long as he has the space to use it, it can go right through basically any move Marth does
Ringler - 03/27/2017
at early percents tech chasing with throws is probably your best bet at punishing marth
The Man - 03/27/2017
It's invincible, and quite long iirc
Ringler - 03/27/2017
i mean punishing with marth
The Man - 03/27/2017
Yeah, I can see that
D tilt stuffs his grab, sh bair might not be enough tbh
Sh bair is 12 frames all together, simple math an all that
Ringler - 03/27/2017
at early percents as marth cc dtilt dks bairs
bair leads into grab super easily against marth until suprisingly high percents
cc while the options available
The Man - 03/27/2017
I see, so bair to grab then?
Ringler - 03/27/2017
yeah thats my general combo starter
The Man - 03/27/2017
I like that, but grab goes right through CC
So watch out for it in neutral
Ringler - 03/27/2017
cc grab or cc dtilt should stuff the grab attempt
also when getting comboed ding behind dk might be your best bet
it just adds a little bit extra room for something to go wrong for the dk
and when you're at higher percents where dk might want to upthrow fair, mixup your di
The Man - 03/27/2017
I was actually talking about Marth
Ringler - 03/27/2017
no di on upthrow at like 80 can actually be a silly di mixup
dks cc is amazing in this mu
The Man - 03/27/2017
Ahh(edited)
Besides what's already been mentioned, what else can you do with DK's CC?
In this MU specifically
Ringler - 03/27/2017
i mean, cc grab is the best thing possible in like any situation
up b
oh yeah, as marth if i bair your shield you should know its safe on shield, and up b comes out frame 3 with invuln, so shield grabbing or attempting an aerial wont work
and the up b might shield poke
The Man - 03/27/2017
I like dem odds
Boulders - 03/27/2017
Is ftilt viable to use? It looks like it has no hit box on his hand and it just extends hit hurtbox
So marth could just poke it
The Man - 03/27/2017
It depends on the distance between you and Marth
When I said f tilt can be angled, I meant upwards, not downwards btw
Like, never use down angled f tilt unless you're trolling basically
Boulders - 03/27/2017
Is the normal ftilt decent?
The Man - 03/27/2017
Yes
Angled f tilt is pretty good for intercepting aerials too, since the topic is Marth, expect lots of sh nairs and rising fairs(edited)
Sh nair can be stuffed with d tilt
Boulders - 03/27/2017
That's really good to know
donkswagmaster (Meme'd!) - 03/27/2017
i find myself really liking sh dairs or side b's for edgeguarding a marth trying to sweetspot, should i just do the marth killer instead?
rip in no response
The Man - 03/27/2017
Side b is slow, unless you fight lvl 1 or 3 CPU's
And it can be meteor cancelled
Sh dair can be meteor cancelled as well, but it actually goes below the ledge, so it can be a useful poke
It's better to just bair them, and keep them away with it
Back throw is great to get them offstage, it's actually surprisingly strong, and even a legit kill throw on Yoshi's
donkswagmaster (Meme'd!) - 03/27/2017
i see. thank you!
shOok! - 03/27/2017
It's sad that his fingers are left out
DK's punish game on Marth is so fun
And the edgeguarding is braindead
I don't find the neutral too bad if the Marth respects you, but you have to earn it
Which is what someone said about the dtilt earlier. You don't get much, but a lot of players just don't like getting hit at all. If you get to play a more patient game it's alright.
Also use up b if you think you're going to trade with Marth when he's falling. You'll straight up win and if he's at a good percentage you could probably make it to ledge before he can.
If the Marth is recovering it should be really flow charty for you.
The Man - 03/27/2017
^
Just watch out for his up b
shOok! - 03/27/2017
If they're a bit far away, up b. If from below, you can sometimes get up b, but I've had them go between dk's hurtboxes and just grab the ledge.
The Man - 03/27/2017
The thing I like most about this MU is that Marth is forced to come to you, which is what makes this a decent MU for DK
shOok! - 03/27/2017
But Marth's up b has landing lag. He can fade back to grab ledge if you just get up too, unless you're past 100%
The Man - 03/27/2017
I prefer DL usually vs Marth, but smaller stages can work too, his sword becomes more dangerous the less room you have to move about and evade it(edited)
shOok! - 03/27/2017
I think it's best to dair onto the stage to cover the landing and the fade back, and then either giant punch or fair. You gotta have refreshed invincibility to do that tho
Or just go off stage and up b him, that will
Killl
The Man - 03/27/2017
All good suggestions, back throw is great at mid-high percents though, and an unstaled sweetspot bair should seal the deal offstage
shOok! - 03/27/2017
Yeah I don't see why Marth has to rush you down, the only thing I can think of is to stop you getting giant punch if you're charging it
You don't need much to kill him tho. You just need a little tap to push him back most the time
The Man - 03/27/2017
Well neither character has to approach, but Marth is better at walling out imo than he is at rushing down
shOok! - 03/27/2017
Up b being invincible means he can't even trade tho. He has to go down to dodge. Which will probably kill him and you can make it back first
The Man - 03/27/2017
That said, don't let Marth get in, he can do scary things to DK up close
shOok! - 03/27/2017
Marth is quite a good defensive character. He's versatile, which is a reason why he's top tier
shOok! - 03/27/2017
I do think Dreamland is best stage for DK
Just because he survives for so long
The Man - 03/27/2017
Yes, it also gives you a lot of room to move about and play keep away
shOok! - 03/27/2017
And when recovering, Marth can't really cover all your landing options from up b
The Man - 03/27/2017
Marth's sword controls stage like a mofo on Yoshi's
shOok! - 03/27/2017
Yeah. I get a lot of jank on that stage tho. Like, more guaranteed kills from grab, up b through platforms, etc
The Man - 03/27/2017
Yeah, but it's easier said than done considering the stage is so small
That said, DK's DD can actually evade moves from Marth if done at the right time
shOok! - 03/27/2017
Yeah, saw the gif
The Man - 03/27/2017
And THAT was on Yoshi's
shOok! - 03/27/2017
My problem with DK in this mu and in general is to do with how much he needs to cc and how big his dash dance is
The Man - 03/27/2017
Gotta say, I underestimated DK's punish game on non fast fallers
CC is the best thing for him in this MU, according to Ringler at least
shOok! - 03/27/2017
Like, the Marth in that gif could have ftilted and it would have been safe
It's true, but Marths can recognise when you're gonna do it I think
You gotta work hard at making it not obvious, or you're probably just gonna get dair'd
Which you can get a grab from when shielded, but still. I just personally find sneaking in CCs hard without changing the way I move
The Man - 03/27/2017
It all depends on play style I suppose
Me and Donk are super defensive players, we tend to just counter attack, rather than press an attack on the opponent
shOok! - 03/27/2017
Also yes. Sheik, Marth and Peach get rekt by DK's combos. I think it's their size, but then Samus doesn't
The Man - 03/27/2017
I'm not sure about Peach
Sheik gets destroyed though, cargo throw fair is even guaranteed iirc
shOok! - 03/27/2017
C up throw fair is guaranteed, but they might as well DI back and mash to fair cos the timing is strict for DK and it's hard to react to that DI well
The Man - 03/27/2017
It's still pretty cool to consider
FD takes away Marth's platform movement
shOok! - 03/27/2017
Peach does, I've said this a lot here. She diea guaranteed regardless of DI from a cargo up throw up air after 80%. It's my favourite mu. But bit of a tangent lol
FD is bad for DK
The Man - 03/27/2017
Why is this so?
shOok! - 03/27/2017
Just because he's faster, has better moves, has big grab, he can just control your space well and much much better than you can
I just think platforms give an excuse to use up air and up b more
Which is a point, recovering is harder without platforms
The Man - 03/27/2017
I see
shOok! - 03/27/2017
Also said early sh dair can be meteored: this is ok. Meteors have much much more hitstun than spikes do if used vs grounded opponents
This is why a lot of Marths prefer PAL dair when they get used to it.
The Man - 03/27/2017
Punch is a great tool in this MU, you can just let it rip from a distance, and it'll go through any move Marth tried to throw out because it's invincible
If I'm not mistaken, doesn't it have even more range than Bair?(edited)
shOok! - 03/27/2017
Dair can be ok if you have a read. It's also great for tech chasing. And if they're at low percents and you c up throw dair, you get a free tech chase
I think it's about the same but I don't know. It's fat tho.
The Man - 03/27/2017
Still invincible, which is amazing
shOok! - 03/27/2017
I'm pretty sure it has more range, just only horizontally. It's a little short
The Man - 03/27/2017
I see
Down b can be good if used right, that move has crazy reach
shOok! - 03/27/2017
You wouldn't want to use it until mid percents. I think there's a better option most the time, it's such a hard commit.
The Man - 03/27/2017
It's fine as long as they don't jump
It out ranges everything Marth has just about, the best way to use DK's ground tools is out of DD, followed by WD, this puts distance between you and your opponent, just enough so that DK's moves can contest with Marth's if timed just right
I gotta get back to Ringler on this shit, he seems to know this MU better than anyone(edited)
shOok! - 03/27/2017
Yeah I just mean they can react and punish a whiff from a good distance
The Man - 03/27/2017
I'll admit I overrated this MU a tad bit, but it still feels at least somewhat even to me
donkswagmaster (Meme'd!) - 03/27/2017
rip we nabbed a sweet JMU and 74 people are offline
im gonna @.everyone
i need more donglage
so what is marths dair on shield? if its -1 or less i might just try to shield it
runescapedk - 03/27/2017
what does JMU mean
donkswagmaster (Meme'd!) - 03/27/2017
joint matchup
so what happens is we contact another discord, and we invite their members over
then we talk through the ins and outs of a mu from both all points of view
The Man - 03/27/2017
Let er rip Rune
donkswagmaster (Meme'd!) - 03/27/2017
it is a great way to advance the average meta
The Man - 03/27/2017
So what do you think about this MU Rune?
donkswagmaster (Meme'd!) - 03/27/2017
i notice you put it at even, how do you approach this mu?
Chandy - 03/27/2017
i don't see any marths in here
they're probably afraid to learn something new
The Man - 03/27/2017
I know right?
Unexplored lower characters are so dark and scary
The Man - 03/27/2017
What do you think about the MU?
runescapedk - 03/27/2017
It is an even matchup
The Man - 03/27/2017
Noticed you put it as even, any reason why?
runescapedk - 03/27/2017
in my opinion, of course
The Man - 03/27/2017
Chandy thinks so too
According to the spread sheet at least
runescapedk - 03/27/2017
both characters can do dirty things to each other, but their neutrals are pretty even due to the tools they have
donkswagmaster (Meme'd!) - 03/27/2017
i agree
The Man - 03/27/2017
Finally, edged it out
runescapedk - 03/27/2017
of course marth has a few more options due to being able to face forward safer
but dk gets so much more off of neutral hits than marth imo
well, maybe no SO much more, but he gets more
donkswagmaster (Meme'd!) - 03/27/2017
i think our dashdance does wonders for us not having to face him
The Man - 03/27/2017
Right, their frame data is remarkably similar as well(edited)
donkswagmaster (Meme'd!) - 03/27/2017
our dtilt is 1 frame faster and of equivalent range
runescapedk - 03/27/2017
well our punch does wonders for not having to face him as well
donkswagmaster (Meme'd!) - 03/27/2017
also we can stuff a grounded marth with our down b if spaced correctly, it has surprising range
The Man - 03/27/2017
Marth's moves otherwise, not counting aerials are more or less the same as our own
Difference being he has IASA frames
donkswagmaster (Meme'd!) - 03/27/2017
and we can stuff an aerial marth with upward f tilt
what is an IASA frame?
The Man - 03/27/2017
All depends on distance, spacing an shit
runescapedk - 03/27/2017
interuptable as soon as
for example, marth dtilt
donkswagmaster (Meme'd!) - 03/27/2017
i see
runescapedk - 03/27/2017
he can spam dtilt quickly
but you can't shield quickly after one
The Man - 03/27/2017
Interruptible as soon as active
runescapedk - 03/27/2017
that's because IASA means the animation continues for a while even though you can technically move to interrupt the ending
but you can't shield to interrupt the ending
The Man - 03/27/2017
^
donkswagmaster (Meme'd!) - 03/27/2017
i see. thank you!
runescapedk - 03/27/2017
it's why sheik ftilt is annoying
and some moves like that
donkswagmaster (Meme'd!) - 03/27/2017
rip
The Man - 03/27/2017
Marth's sword out ranges our tilts due to disjoint, but d tilt is faster than both his f and d tilts at least
donkswagmaster (Meme'd!) - 03/27/2017
i see
The Man - 03/27/2017
Up tilt comes out at roughly the same frame though
Watch out for his CC, in general this MU is about getting the better of him in terms of exchanges
He rushes in, back away from him and try to block his advance with an attack
donkswagmaster (Meme'd!) - 03/27/2017
i see
The Man - 03/27/2017
The thing is Marth can do this as well, but even better due to his sword
So, don't approach him
donkswagmaster (Meme'd!) - 03/27/2017
i am a fairly patient man
im so excited for tonight
gonna take all this donglage to the bank
so what if we are on the ledge and the marth is right there? what should i do?
runescapedk - 03/27/2017
kys
donkswagmaster (Meme'd!) - 03/27/2017
i know we have the best single button press options from ledge, but what should i use?
we have the best tournament winner, roll, and getup attack (below 100 at least)
runescapedk - 03/27/2017
bowser's might be better(edited)
Asriel Dreemurr - 03/27/2017
I'd say not get up attack because of swordsman spike
donkswagmaster (Meme'd!) - 03/27/2017
but our buttslam is invuln during half iirc
Asriel Dreemurr - 03/27/2017
Counter tho
donkswagmaster (Meme'd!) - 03/27/2017
i see
Asriel Dreemurr - 03/27/2017
It can spike if used right
donkswagmaster (Meme'd!) - 03/27/2017
i suppose its just we need to mixup then
runescapedk - 03/27/2017
ive never seen a marth counter that
that's punishable country
donkswagmaster (Meme'd!) - 03/27/2017
oh my
runescapedk - 03/27/2017
I can't think of a time when a marth would want to counter something on reaction like that
it's only good vs firefox because they have no other options imo
but a dk on ledge... why the hell counter that
if he doesnt' do that option, you're just fucked
donkswagmaster (Meme'd!) - 03/27/2017
a few months back i was facing a marth that was countering my uairs after uthrow and cargo uthrow
runescapedk - 03/27/2017
that sounds like smash 4
just treat it like an airdodge
or do the uair fast enough so that doesn't happen
donkswagmaster (Meme'd!) - 03/27/2017
it was weird
really threw me off
runescapedk - 03/27/2017
I guess I wouldn't have had that problem because I do my uairs correctly :ok_hand:
donkswagmaster (Meme'd!) - 03/27/2017
lel rip me
runescapedk - 03/27/2017
uair seems pretty ez for me
timing fair vs marth is hard tho
c-uthrow to fair is risk city if you aren't on point
but most marths will just blow their load (jump) so if it hits they are rip
donkswagmaster (Meme'd!) - 03/27/2017
nice
Shifty | 19 - 03/27/2017
all getup attacks from the ledge can be crouch cancelled indefinitely
not a lot of people know that, but it has set knockback on every character
(except for game and watch's, of course)
do keep that in mind if you're relying on getup attack
Green Ranger - 03/27/2017
Anyone ever try ledgehop aerial upb to get back?
I feel like sometimes it works sometimes it doesn't work
Shifty | 19 - 03/27/2017
would probably be a good mixup with good aerial drift, but ofc marth has enough disjoint to deal with it
I feel like the reward for DK if it works is pretty good
Noghrilla - 03/27/2017
I've done it a little good mixup
Not super great
Green Ranger - 03/27/2017
Yeaah, there is no silver bullet for getting back from the ledge. Nothing is going to work 100% of the time (especially if your opponent knows what you're going to do). It's good to know all the little options though
You might catch someone by surprise
runescapedk - 03/27/2017
ledgedash to upB is technically invinc
but yeah it leaves you open if you fail
aerial upB is a strange idea
although it would work best if they scurred and held shield the whole time
Chandy - 03/27/2017
sounds like an invitation to get forward smashed
mixing up between haxdash, ledgedash shield -> roll or jump, and tournament winner -> waveland on side platform seems to work for me
The Man - 03/27/2017
Dafuq's a tournament winner? Unplugging the opponent's controller?
donkswagmaster (Meme'd!) - 03/27/2017
hop from ledge
so you just tap x
no ledge dash
we have the best straight up jump from edge in the game
Shifty | 19 - 03/27/2017
(It's called a tournament winner because it's generally a bad option and it's also incredibly common when people are under pressure at the ledge, and flubbing something at the ledge commonly results in just jumping from the ledge and dying, hence "Tournament Winner"(edited)
)
The Man - 03/27/2017
Ahhh
Shifty | 19 - 03/27/2017
wins the tournament for your opponent :wink:
March 28, 2017
Ruki - 03/28/2017
This matchup mostly comes down to DK's ability to win neutral against an opponent with several more options
So if the other marth knows what DK does then it's really difficult for the DK
Other than that punish / juggling game is pretty similar across both sides
Ringler - 03/28/2017
dk def wins the punish
which is why you wanna avoid swinging alot against dk
the majority of dks hits will set up into a grab
Ruki - 03/28/2017
They do? huh
Ringler - 03/28/2017
well bair does at low to mid
Ruki - 03/28/2017
I can kinda get nair to go into grab
Ringler - 03/28/2017
and im not gonna hit you with anything else unless im grabbing or up bing
nair is a gimmick but other dks might use it more than me
fair should clean beat it
also dont hit dk if you cc a nair cause dk probably wants to cc grab anything you try to punish nair with
nairs endlag sucks just grab it(edited)
Ruki - 03/28/2017
DK is ultimately 1-dimensional, so hitting the DK at 0% and setting up an edgeguard off a predicted bair or called out dashdance seems very feasible
Ringler - 03/28/2017
yeah
dks so fat and his recovery is so predictable its in your best interest to just gimp
no point in trying to combo to death
plus if i make it past like 120 or so percent youve got no good way of kill confirming
Ruki - 03/28/2017
my friends always try to hit his upb and just get hit and give me a free recovery lol
Ringler - 03/28/2017
ive lived to 250% against marth because i get to a point where hes pretty much got to read me with fsmash to kill
dks up b gimps marth very well so youve got to mixup all your recovery timing well
even using your up b super early can be good
cause if i up b you off stage you're pretty much guranteed dead at any percent
plus i can up b with ledge invuln
but dks up b clean beats marth if theyre started on the same frame anyway
marths will get pissed cause they hear their up b sound but get hit anyway(edited)
Arasz - 03/28/2017
anyone from eu wanna play the mu a bit?
donkswagmaster (Meme'd!) - 03/28/2017
i think Ook! is from britain, he might be down
Asriel Dreemurr - 03/28/2017
@shOok!
March 29, 2017
Arasz - 03/29/2017
:ook: :ook:
shOok! - 03/29/2017
o hai
sorry I've been travelling around
but would like to. I think we could do with an EU netplay page
Arasz - 03/29/2017
when are you gonna be up again?
March 30, 2017
shOok! - Last Thursday at 3:41 PM
I'm back now if you fancy games
Arasz - Last Thursday at 11:37 PM
Always so late q.q
April 3, 2017
Asriel Dreemurr - Last Monday at 6:37 PM
it done