Nixon Hoover Pentagon Papers Call July 1 1971

Introduction and transcript of conversation is by the uploader.

Audio for this conversation is here:
http://nixontapeaudio.org/jeh/006-084.mp3

Clip with audio accompanied by transcript is on youtube:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0vFJ4DjXsv8

JULY 1, 1971: THE PRESIDENT AND HOOVER, 6:00 - 6:07 P.M.

A conversation between the two most powerful men in Washington, after the Supreme Court rules that the New York Times and the Washington Post have the right to publish the Pentagon Papers. Neither man is happy about the decision, and Nixon is particularly upset that the ruling has upstaged a speech he gave at the FBI Academy graduation ceremony, where he gave fulsome praise to Hoover. One of the last points touched on by these charming men are the looks of Katharine Graham, owner of the post. Nixon: "She’s a terrible old bag." Hoover: "Oh, she’s an old bitch in my estimation." The banal schoolyard comeback has the force of truth here: it takes one to know one.

HOOVER: Hello?

NIXON: Edgar?

HOOVER: Yes?

NIXON: I wanted to tell you I was so damn mad when that Supreme Court had to come down...first, I didn't like their decision, but since-

HOOVER: Me neither.

NIXON: Unbelievable, wasn't it?

HOOVER: It was unbelievable.

NIXON: You know, those clowns we've got on there, I'll tell you, I hope I outlive the bastards.

HOOVER: I hope you do too.

NIXON: I mean, politically, too. Because, by God, we gotta change that court.

HOOVER: There's no question about that, whatsoever. I thought there was the possibility of a five to four...

NIXON: Yeah. You know, I thought, we oughta get White [Byron White]. What's the matter with him?

HOOVER: Well, of course, with White is the old Kennedy crowd.

NIXON: Well then, the other one though, what in the hell is the matter with Stewart [Potter Stewart]?

HOOVER: Well, Stewart is a very wishy-washy individual. He switches from one side to the other.

NIXON: Yeah.

HOOVER: And I wasn't surprised that on this thing he switched.

NIXON: Well, I suppose he's affected by the Georgetown thing. But what I was going to say is, that the, uh, one I was...the day we went over to your place, and I was trying to- It made the news, alright.

HOOVER: It made the news.

NIXON: But the point is, the point is, if it hadn't been for that stinking court decision, we'd have been the lead story, you know.

HOOVER: Would have been the lead story.

NIXON: And it should have been.

HOOVER: And it should have been, yeah. Your remarks were simply wonderful, I thought.

NIXON: Well, we got- I thought it was good to lay it on the line with those fellas. And, you know that line, about the era of permissiveness, and you know, I thought it was really great when I said, and I hope that your people get this one down, because..."in the twenty three years that I've known the director, that he has never served a party. He has always served his country." That sorta summed it up, didn't it?

HOOVER: It did. And I ordered today...a copy of your speech came over from the White House today, and I ordered that it be printed in the Law Enforcement Bulletin, which goes to about fifteen hundred...fifty thousand law enforcement...police departments in the country.

NIXON: Oh. Great. Good. Good. Oh, that's fine. Well, I wanted to go there...but it got some, it got a good play, and I was glad we could give it a shot...

HOOVER: Well, I deeply appreciate what you did, because it certainly was wonderful of you to do it.

NIXON: Yeah. Well. I wanted to. (laughs)

HOOVER: I know you wanted to, but it was wonderful to do it, at a time when they've been shooting at all sides at you.

NIXON: Oh, heck. As far as I'm concerned...you know, one thing I was going to ask your advice on, a lot of people have a feeling that I oughta...not a lot, some all mixed, as a matter of fact...think that now that this court has acted, that I oughta make a statement about the freedom of the press, and that we aren't trying to censor them and so forth. My inclination, for whatever it's worth, is not to say so, and I'll tell you-¸

HOOVER: I think you're right.

NIXON: I kinda think I should stay out. But what's your public relations judgement on it, Edgar? I'd just like to know.

HOOVER: My public relations judgement, Mr. President, is that you should remain absolutely silent about it.

NIXON: You would?

HOOVER: I would.

NIXON: Now what- You don't think there's any great problem that...they've been...naturally, they've been charging that we have been trying to keep the press from printing the truth about the war...

HOOVER: Oh, I don't think that's involved, as a matter of fact, these papers don't harm you one bit.

NIXON: No, actually, the stories in the Post and Time this morning were all about Kennedy and Diem.

HOOVER: He was the one who started it, and Lyndon Johnson escalated it, and you inherited it, and you have brought it down, you never sent an additional man in there, but you brought it down. And I think what they're trying to do, is bait you into taking a position that the freedom of the press ought not be to that extent. I think we oughta be awful careful, what we do in the case of this man Ellsberg. Because there again, they're gonna make a martyr out of him. All the press of the country are going to, of course, come to the front that he's a martyr, and in view of what the Supreme Court has now said, I doubt whether we're going to get a conviction of him. I hope so, but I doubt it. We've got a good strong case on him...and his first wife testified very vigorously against him. And, it's a good strong case, but-

NIXON: Well, I'd like to check some of the other people around him. There are others. I think there's a conspiracy involved here.

HOOVER: Neil Sheehan of the New York Times is involved, this fellow Jack Anderson, here in Washington, that skunk that we have here.

NIXON: Is he in it too?

HOOVER: Oh yeah, he's in it. He was at the Post, and had copies made. I saw her on the TV last night, Ms. Graham. I would have thought she’s about 85 years old. She’s only about, I think, something like 57.

NIXON: Oh no, I know that.

HOOVER: I had an idea she was a great deal older when I looked at her last night. She's aged terribly.

NIXON: She’s a terrible old bag.

HOOVER: Oh, she’s an old bitch in my estimation.

NIXON: (laughs) That’s right.

HOOVER: But I think from your point of view, it would be very ill advised-

NIXON: You don't think I should say anything?

HOOVER: I don't think you should say anything.

NIXON: Just let it cool off. Let the papers come out, and let them reflect whatever they reflect.

HOOVER: Let them print what they want to print. It doesn't reflect upon you, you had nothing to do with all of this-

NIXON: I had nothing- nothing was about me, you know.

HOOVER: No, if you enter it now, on the grounds of freedom of the press or anything like that, it's the very thing that the enemies of the administration want to do, is divert the attack on you. Not upon Kennedy, not upon Johnson. Now, of course, what I think is going to happen, I think Lyndon Johnson will ultimately burst forth himself.

NIXON: Yeah.

HOOVER: Because-

NIXON: He ought to.

HOOVER: You know, he's a tough individual.

NIXON: He oughta defend himself.

HOOVER: I think he will.

NIXON: Well.

HOOVER: And I think for that reason, your silence would be just the thing-

NIXON: Well, I certainly don't plan to say a thing until I have a chance to look over the weekend. And see you at the, uh-

HOOVER: Well, I'd evaluate it very carefully, because they're trying to bait you into taking a position. This fellow that's going to be cited by the Congress for contempt of court [Frank Stanton, president of CBS, which had produced the documentary The Selling of the Pentagon], he shot his mouth off today. And I think the House of Representatives will cite him for contempt.

NIXON: (laughs) Hoo boy.

HOOVER: Let that be his battle, not yours.

NIXON: Oh, I'm not going to have nothing to do with him. That's the House.

HOOVER: That's the House. It's up to them.

NIXON: Let them have their fun.

HOOVER: And they had a unanimous vote in the Committee, it was undivided. And I think that's up to him to fight out. He talks about the opinion of yesterday as being in his favor and so forth, he has nothing to do with what the House-

NIXON: Well, the other opinion yesterday had nothing to do with the Pentagon.

HOOVER: None whatsoever at all.

NIXON: Selling the Pentagon.

HOOVER: They had lied about the Pentagon, as they have lied about so many things...CBS is one of the worst networks on the circuit today.

NIXON: Yeahyeahyeah. Rightrightright.

HOOVER: But I would certainly give awful careful thought-

NIXON: Well.

HOOVER: -to remaining silent.

NIXON: Yeah. Well, I'm glad to get that advice. I'm gonna be meeting in about an hour with these guys, and I'll have that in mind.

HOOVER: Fine.

NIXON: Well, good to talk to you, and-

HOOVER: Wanna thank you again for the-

NIXON: Well, I appreciate the cuff links. HAHA!

HOOVER: It was wonderful.

NIXON: I appreciate the cuff links.

HOOVER: Thank you.

NIXON: Bye.

HOOVER: Goodbye.