22-July-2018
[09:31] MachinaMandala: Hey.
[09:31] MachinaMandala: So.
[09:31] MachinaMandala: I got banned.
[09:32] MachinaMandala: After everything got out of hand.
[09:32] MachinaMandala: I was directed to you to talk about it.
[09:32] MachinaMandala: I literally just want access to the Discord so I can ask shitty newbie questions.
[09:33] iluna minori: Let me review your offense for a bit.
[09:35] iluna minori:
Yeah, I prefer Islamic DPS.
You get higher DPS after killing a kafir.


First of all, why thread that line?
[09:35] MachinaMandala: Someone else made a similar joke.
[09:35] MachinaMandala: And I thought it was alright considering some of the stuff others were saying:
[09:36] MachinaMandala: [10:20] Inette Rokuyari [Omega]: Are we ignoring this guy?
[10:20] Inette Rokuyari [Omega]: I hope we are.
[10:20] ASTRAL♂BOY♂NEXT♂DOOR-DOOR♂: No I want to see him pretending to be retarded for like 7 more years

[10:23] ASTRAL♂BOY♂NEXT♂DOOR-DOOR♂: MY NIGGA MACHINA IS GETTIN HIP CHECKED SOMEONE STOP THIS MADNESS
[10:23] ASTRAL♂BOY♂NEXT♂DOOR-DOOR♂: Peak this
[10:23] ASTRAL♂BOY♂NEXT♂DOOR-DOOR♂: grabs dick

[10:26] ASTRAL♂BOY♂NEXT♂DOOR-DOOR♂: Eat shit u black sympathizer

[10:34] Leif :crown:: you are displaying behaviour that of one with compromised cognitive capabilties
[09:39] MachinaMandala: Mostly Astral Boy tbh. :thinking:
[09:40] iluna minori: They will be similarly warned.
[09:40] iluna minori: You were also warned for trying to troll on Cid being a trans
[09:40] MachinaMandala: Oh, that was a poor joke.
[09:40] MachinaMandala: I didn't even realise I got warned for that.
[09:41] iluna minori: When I told to drop it, that's the warning.
[09:41] MachinaMandala: And I mean, I genuinely thought he was a girl for a bit when he initially popped up.
[09:42] iluna minori: It was how you worded it that warrants that warning.
[09:42] MachinaMandala: But I dropped it in that case.
[09:42] iluna minori: Never mind.(edited)
[09:43] iluna minori: Judging the situation, it was correct for Ven to not rescind the ban.
[09:43] iluna minori: I wouldn't either.
[09:43] iluna minori: Also
[09:43] iluna minori: Where did that Astro guy said that?
[09:43] iluna minori: Which channel did the argument came from?
[09:43] MachinaMandala: https://pastebin.com/dFkMtG2c
https://pastebin.com/yL2exPpB
Pastebin
FFXIV Log - Pastebin.com

Pastebin
FFXIV Log - Pastebin.com

[09:43] MachinaMandala: I got pastebins of it.
[09:43] MachinaMandala: General chat.
[09:43] iluna minori: Which. Channel.
[09:44] iluna minori: Ok
[09:46] MachinaMandala: And as I said to Ven_ae, I was warned whilst others were insulting me:
[09:46] MachinaMandala: [10:24] Ven_ae: @MachinaMandala You're entitled to your own opinion, and others to theirs and they are free to disagree with your opinion, and you with theirs.
[10:24] Wake Me "Easy-chan" Up Inside: @Bathtub Burger Era Hasselhoff @Inette Rokuyari [Omega] nah apparently it makes perfect sense for a fisher to be on the same level as a swordsmen
[10:24] ASTRAL♂BOY♂NEXT♂DOOR-DOOR♂: With my dick
[10:24] Ven_ae: However do try to follow our rules in #about-this-server
[10:24] Ven_ae: And be respectful
[09:47] iluna minori: I will review it first.
[09:47] iluna minori: Please wait. It will take some hours to
[09:47] MachinaMandala: Alright.
[09:47] MachinaMandala: For the time being, do you mind manually approving my posts?
[09:47] MachinaMandala: I've censored some of the words that I copied from the logs.
[09:47] MachinaMandala: https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comments/90vzw5/insulted_by_moderators_insulted_by_users_and_then/
reddit
r/ffxiv - Insulted by Moderators, Insulted by Users and then Banne...
0 votes and 52 comments so far on Reddit

[09:49] iluna minori: I will discuss with mods about this.
[09:49] iluna minori: Do note that majority wins.
[09:49] MachinaMandala: Oh, Ven_ae said you'd do it.
[09:49] MachinaMandala:

[09:50] iluna minori: For your information
[09:50] iluna minori: No one blocks you from Discord
[09:50] iluna minori: There is a function in Discord where unless you're verified as a friend, your DMs will be blocked no matter what.
[09:51] MachinaMandala: Eanae has definitely blocked me.
[09:51] MachinaMandala:

[09:51] MachinaMandala: And it's wrong for moderators to turn off add friend if they are going to ban people.
[09:51] MachinaMandala: Moderators need to be contactable.
[09:51] iluna minori: Ok
[09:52] MachinaMandala: But anyway.
[09:52] MachinaMandala: Let's not go into that.
[09:52] MachinaMandala: I just want to ask moronic newbie questions.
[09:52] MachinaMandala: And the Subreddit Discord is the biggest for that.
[09:52] iluna minori: I'll review your offense. Do note that your ban will remain if I don't find your argument convincing.
[09:52] iluna minori: I'll look through the Balance as well.
[09:52] iluna minori: If you acknowledge that, then I shall proceed with the review.
[09:53] iluna minori: And define "moronic newbie questions"
[09:53] MachinaMandala: I'm a newbie.
[09:53] MachinaMandala: I ask really dumb questions like.
[09:53] MachinaMandala: "What is the Feast?"
[09:54] MachinaMandala: Unfortunately all of my messages have been deleted.
[09:55] MachinaMandala: Except for the ones when I tried to give the game another go in November of last year.
[09:55] MachinaMandala: But most of my conversation was in new-player.
[09:55] MachinaMandala: I haven't really said much in the Balance.
[09:55] MachinaMandala: But sure.
[09:56] MachinaMandala: And, as I said to Ven_ae, I didn't even realise kaffir was a term used by South Africans.
[09:57] iluna minori: My warning to you: If you are not sure if those words you used are slurs or not
[09:58] iluna minori: Don't use it
[09:58] MachinaMandala: Kafir is a term used by Muslims to refer to non-Muslims.
[09:58] MachinaMandala: I didn't realise it was also used by South Africans.
[09:58] iluna minori: What makes you think it's a good idea to say that just because others do it?
[09:59] MachinaMandala: Because I didn't think it was a particularly offensive joke.
[09:59] MachinaMandala: Others disagreed.
[09:59] MachinaMandala: My point is that the stuff others were saying in the chat (and weren't warned for) was as bad or worse than what I was saying.
[10:00] iluna minori: I won't deny it.
[10:00] MachinaMandala: Keep in mind that kafir in this context is not a racist term.
[10:00] iluna minori: However please don't try to reflect that blame as well.
[10:00] MachinaMandala: I'm just trying to contextualise my actions for you.
[10:00] MachinaMandala: I thought this was acceptable considering the atmosphere.
[10:01] iluna minori: No it's not
[10:01] MachinaMandala: I understand that now.
[10:01] iluna minori: Ok.
[10:35] iluna minori: Let me ask you a question
[10:35] iluna minori: Your appeal reason of wanting to rejoin the server
[10:36] iluna minori: is that you want to ask newbie questions, am I right?
[10:36] MachinaMandala: Pretty much, yeah.
[10:36] MachinaMandala: "I want game advice and it seems like the best / most active place to get it."
[10:36] MachinaMandala: The Newbie Network in game is bad.
[10:36] MachinaMandala: At least you guys have a dedicated channel for newbie questions.
[10:36] MachinaMandala: The NN is just filled with weird DDLG stuff. :thinking:(edited)
[10:37] iluna minori: Now allow me to ask
[10:37] iluna minori: Why, a newbie like you, would want to get into balancing talks in a #general-chat that is dedicated to endgame talk?
[10:37] MachinaMandala: I was talking about balancing in general.
[10:38] MachinaMandala: Not specifically about FFXIV.
[10:38] MachinaMandala: The conversation started with me saying, "I wish people would start making fantasy worlds instead of fantasy games."
[10:38] MachinaMandala: The balancing point was a general MMO / game thing, not specific to FFXIV.
[10:38] MachinaMandala: Since I have no idea what the fuck is balanced or unbalanced in this game.
[10:38] MachinaMandala: Except apparently samurai?(edited)
[10:39] iluna minori: What makes you think crafters being battle class is being balanced?
[10:39] MachinaMandala: I was illustrating a point on balance.
[10:39] MachinaMandala: Like, how do we define it?
[10:39] MachinaMandala: What do we use as the metric?
[10:40] MachinaMandala: It wasn't meant to be specific to FFXIV.
[10:40] MachinaMandala: It was in off-topic general chat anyway.
[10:54] iluna minori: Astroboy has been reminded to not use any racial slurs. The difference between yours and his
[10:54] iluna minori: was that he's doing a banter with someone else, and your racial slur came out of nowhere.
[10:54] MachinaMandala: It wasn't just one from him though.
[10:54] MachinaMandala: It was multiple.
[10:54] iluna minori: Both are equally unacceptable.
[10:54] MachinaMandala: Mine was a joke directed at no one in particular.
[10:54] MachinaMandala: I can accept that.
[10:55] iluna minori: You're making a racist joke. That itself is unacceptable.
[10:55] iluna minori: But I made my point clear.
[10:55] iluna minori: Very clear in fact.
[10:55] MachinaMandala: Directed at what race?
[10:55] iluna minori: Muslims.
[10:56] MachinaMandala: ...
[10:56] MachinaMandala: The race of Islam.
[10:56] iluna minori: Islam is a religion.
[10:56] MachinaMandala: Correct.
[10:56] iluna minori: Muslims are those who practice islam.
[10:57] MachinaMandala: Correct.
[10:57] MachinaMandala: (Specifically, a Muslim is someone who adheres to the Five Pillars, but close enough.)
[10:58] MachinaMandala: If I made an anti-Christian joke, would you say I was being racist towards Christians?
[10:58] iluna minori: Derogatory term, and a completely unwarranted at one. You can slash off the race thingy.
[10:59] MachinaMandala: Who was the derogatory term directed at?
[10:59] iluna minori: It doesn't matter which but it's basically unacceptable.
[10:59] iluna minori: Those people who are arguing job balance with.
[11:00] iluna minori: People disagreed with your balance statements and I did not see anything (except Flie, the statement was done poorly and he already reflected on that mistake) that's specially insulting you.
[11:00] iluna minori: And you returned with a statements like "Killing Kafir raised your DPS further"
[11:00] MachinaMandala: [10:34] Leif :crown:: you are displaying behaviour that of one with compromised cognitive capabilties
[11:00] MachinaMandala: [10:20] Inette Rokuyari [Omega]: Are we ignoring this guy?
[10:20] Inette Rokuyari [Omega]: I hope we are.
[10:20] ASTRAL♂BOY♂NEXT♂DOOR-DOOR♂: No I want to see him pretending to be retarded for like 7 more years
[11:01] MachinaMandala: @iluna minori someone made a joke about socialist DPS.
[11:01] MachinaMandala: I responded with the kafir DPS one.
[11:01] MachinaMandala: The balance conversation was over at that point.
[11:01] MachinaMandala: Unfortunately, it looks like the person who made the socialist DPS joke either deleted it or had it deleted it.
[11:02] iluna minori: Then I cannot do anything about it.
[11:02] MachinaMandala: Again, just contextualising what I'm saying.
[11:02] MachinaMandala: And trying to make sure you don't accidentally get the wrong idea.
[11:02] MachinaMandala: Kafir isn't an offensive term to Muslims in the context used.
[11:03] MachinaMandala: It's (arguably) an offensive term to non-Muslims.
[11:04] iluna minori: According to Ven
[11:04] iluna minori: People have been disagreeing with you
[11:04] iluna minori: And yet you pressed on?
[11:04] MachinaMandala: On what?
[11:04] iluna minori:
You were warned prior to making that comment, after you made a comment directed at another Discord user about having been dropped on their head as a child. This was while you were having a good old time trying to make out that everyone was getting triggered after disagreeing with you for saying that there is not a need for balance in games, especially in a game such as FFXIV; When infact, no one was triggered and was simply disagreeing with you; All in all it was quite a poor attempt and you ended up just tripping over yourself, trying desperately to support your argument by coming up with completely unrelated comparisons. I seem to recall one of those comparisons being along the lines of "The game isn't balanced because a Warrior and a Crafter can't do the same kind of DPS" or something like that.
[11:04] iluna minori:
But to say other users of the Discord server harassed you is wholly inaccurate. Not at any time did you reach out to a chat moderator or subreddit moderator to say that you were before being warned or banned. Both of the moderator roles are mentionable, and we can be DM'd by members of the server.
[11:05] iluna minori: I won't include Eanae in this matter
[11:05] MachinaMandala: Untrue.
[11:05] iluna minori: Explain then.
[11:05] MachinaMandala:

[11:05] iluna minori: Ok
[11:05] iluna minori: You contacted that one guy
[11:05] iluna minori: What's next?
[11:06] MachinaMandala: Am I meant to contact every single moderator when there's a problem with someone?
[11:06] MachinaMandala: Also, I called out Ven_ae when they warned me.
[11:06] MachinaMandala: I asked if Ven_ae was joking as others were insulting me and cajoling me through the entire conversation.
[11:06] MachinaMandala: "I seem to recall one of those comparisons being along the lines of "The game isn't balanced because a Warrior and a Crafter can't do the same kind of DPS" or something like that."
[11:07] MachinaMandala: This bit isn't anywhere near accurate.
[11:07] MachinaMandala: It was Socratic questioning.
[11:07] MachinaMandala: "Should a crafter do the same DPS as a warrior?"
[11:07] MachinaMandala: I'm not saying the game is or isn't balanced.
[11:07] MachinaMandala: I'm asking questions to get people to validate their point.
[11:07] MachinaMandala: This is basic debate tactics 101.
[11:08] MachinaMandala: [09:34] Leif :crown::

When I used to play ArcheAge and streamed a lot. I received a real-life threat in-game.

The GM told me that this person was probably just "Roleplaying with you" and closed the ticket. SMFH.

[09:56] Fliegar (Exodus) :maple_leaf:: Are you being purposely obtuse or is this just how you usually are?
[11:09] MachinaMandala: Do you have the log between those bits?
[11:09] MachinaMandala: I'm not sure if I messed up my copy and paste.
[11:09] MachinaMandala: :thinking:
[11:10] MachinaMandala: 09:53] Haztion [Balmung]: No he's just one of the "Flavor of the Month" assholes in every online game.
[11:11] MachinaMandala: 09:54] High IQ SAM main BTW: BE A META SLAVE HURRRR
[09:54] High IQ SAM main BTW: Jesus fucking christ
[11:13] iluna minori:
It was Socratic questioning.
"Should a crafter do the same DPS as a warrior?"
[11:13] iluna minori: Do you know, before you even make this question. Have you ever gone through and think twice before that?
[11:14] iluna minori: I am not sure if I understand your purpose behind making this question because it really makes me think you're trying to incite something.
[11:14] MachinaMandala: It's a pretty reasonable question when the argument being made is, "Players shouldn't be kept out of content because of their class choices."
[11:14] MachinaMandala: Again, not trying to incite anything except a discussion.
[11:15] iluna minori: I'll ask you back
[11:15] iluna minori: "Should a crafter do the same DPS as a warrior?"
[11:16] iluna minori: The more I'm reviewing the chat logs, the more I'm not convinced of lifting the ban because the whole discussion that lead up to that point.
[11:16] iluna minori: However
[11:16] iluna minori: They will also be warned because of their aggressiveness.
[11:18] MachinaMandala: I'd say no, obviously.
[11:18] MachinaMandala: Because I don't believe in maintaining a perfect balance between everything.
[11:18] iluna minori: Do you expect a meaningful conversation to come up from that question?
[11:18] MachinaMandala: Yes.
[11:18] iluna minori: When the whole answer that lead up to that point is obvious enough?
[11:19] MachinaMandala: There's no such thing as an obvious answer.
[11:19] iluna minori: Again, let me ask you. This is one thing I share with Ven on the matter(edited)
[11:20] iluna minori: Why are you trying to discuss balance in a game you're still very new with, and when people disagreed with you, you pressed on?
[11:20] iluna minori: Just answer.
[11:20] MachinaMandala: Again, not specifically discussing balance in FFXIV.
[11:20] MachinaMandala: The discussion was about other MMOs.
[11:20] MachinaMandala: This would be a lot easier to talk about if Ven hadn't deleted all my messages.
[11:21] MachinaMandala: The conversation started with archeage.
[11:22] MachinaMandala: https://www.reddit.com/r/MMORPG/comments/9009wn/worst_mmo_customer_service_experienced_youve_had/?st=jjv5cz2o&sh=9b871015
reddit
Worst MMO customer service experienced you’ve had story? • r/M...
Most of us have been there. A problem happens you lose something you shouldn’t have due to a problem or the game won’t run. Perhaps you’re...

[11:22] MachinaMandala: With this specifically.
[11:22] MachinaMandala: And someone said they wished ArcheAge hadn't been terrible.
[11:23] MachinaMandala: We were in the off-topic channel so apologies if people thought I was talking about FFXIV specifically.
[11:24] iluna minori: Give me some time to consider whether I shall rescind your ban or not.
[11:24] iluna minori: Even if I do, you'll be put into heavy monitoring.
[11:24] MachinaMandala: That's fair.
[11:25] iluna minori: You were warned prior to that derogatory term of yours.
[11:25] MachinaMandala: I'm really not sure who I was meant to be being offensive towards anymore.
[11:25] MachinaMandala: Was the use of kafir the problem?
[11:26] MachinaMandala: Because then I'm insulting non-Muslims.
[11:27] iluna minori: You don't get it?

You're using a derogatory term. It came up of nowhere as far as I can see from the chat log. Don't use it, no matter what. If you have problems with other people using it. Report them to us and we'll deal with it instead of joining them with your random remarks
[11:27] iluna minori: Am I making myself clear?
[11:27] iluna minori: Other people are similarly warned.
[11:28] MachinaMandala: Very clear.
[11:28] MachinaMandala: I'll be sure not to use anything offensive in the future.
[12:07] iluna minori: After reviewing the situation. I've decided to maintain your ban
[12:08] iluna minori: Your kafir statement actually offended a muslim badly in the channel.(edited)
[dangerous personal information stuff redacted]
[12:11] MachinaMandala: Yeah.
[12:11] iluna minori: In addition to that, you had warnings as well.
[12:11] MachinaMandala: But kafir wasn't offensive.
[12:11] iluna minori: That argument + kafir became the last straw, so I cannot let that past.
[again redacted for similar reasons]
[12:12] MachinaMandala: You're saying what I said is offensive.
[12:12] MachinaMandala: Without actually understanding what I'm saying.
[12:13] MachinaMandala: Look, you do you.
[12:13] MachinaMandala: I'm just gonna report the server to Discord.
[12:14] MachinaMandala: And allow them to sort it out.
[12:14] MachinaMandala: Especially regarding preferred status.
[12:18] iluna minori: The ban will still be maintained. Sorry. A lot of testimonies I've gathered from people around does not favor your situation at all.
[12:20] MachinaMandala: To be honest.
[12:20] MachinaMandala: I think it's horrible how you're doing this.
[12:20] MachinaMandala: But I can't be shocked after what people said about the server on Reddit.