TITAN VS SIGMA

09:23 → AnotherLurker, CreatureCoby, galrock0, +Ogre (voiced), Dejers, Lee925|phone, BitterBusiness, FalseP, IHC and JoshCarter4 joined  ⇐ AnotherLurker|Zzz, merk, pinsndneedles, Kralizec, Wannie and Volka quit  ↔ Warscribe, Strife, Bronezhilet, Tehpillowstar, CTC, MrUnderwood and JudgeWhoOverrules popped in  ↔ stonewall, HellBender and +gonzobot (voiced) nipped out  •  Goatsmith → RunningGoat, thePatchySlumbers → thePatchyBeard
22:04 <Voychek> shit ok before i forget to ask
22:04 <Voychek> for the people with h2h experience, martial or whatever
22:05 <Voychek> say you have a very experienced and well trained supersoldier vs basically a superhero with some experience but no training, and who is a bit stronger than the soldier
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22:06 <Voychek> might be relevant, superhero has _very_ limited experience vs trained martial artists, i'd compare them to like a barbarian/fighter in fantasy
22:06 <Voychek> and supersoldier is, well.. yeah.
22:09 <Voychek> on top of that, what sort of mistakes might you expect someone without training to make that someone _with_ training would catch and punish?
22:09 <CreatureCoby> Voychek: proper grammer and english is needed
22:09 <CreatureCoby> this is /very/ convoluted
22:09 <Voychek> wat?
22:09 <CreatureCoby> short, sweet and to the point
22:09 <Voychek> that is.
22:09 <CreatureCoby> your thought process was meandering before the final line
22:09 <CreatureCoby> lol
22:09 — CreatureCoby did a whoops
22:09 <JoshCarter4> Assuming the superhero not significantly stronger (to illustrate: body builder vs a teenager, in terms of strength disparity) the super soldier is at a heavy advantage.
22:10 <Voychek> that's about exactly it, JoshCarter4
22:10 <JoshCarter4> Bad form and leaving themselves open to counters and bad balance.
22:10 <Voychek> hero has the potential to take the soldier out of the fight in half a hit.. if he can land it
22:11 <JoshCarter4> Half a hit? This is sounding like he's significantly stronger.
22:11 <Voychek> well
22:11 <Voychek> that was a bit of an exaggeration
22:13 <JoshCarter4> Brawlers often don't know how to punch or kick properly, nor (generally) do they have the muscle memory to avoid and defend from attacks.
22:13 <JoshCarter4> Especially if the attacker has training.
22:15 <Voychek> i'd guess that a big mistake would be committing full strength to every attack
22:27 <JoshCarter4> Eh, biggest concerns would be lack of reaction speed (due to lack of muscle memory) and bad form.
22:27 <RunningGoat> anyone who fights a lot, and wins
22:28 <RunningGoat> probably has more applicable training than someone who has trained but has not successfully fought someone
22:28 <RunningGoat> hands on is training too
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22:28 <JoshCarter4> Bad form causes a lot of other issues like hitting inefficiently and being off balance after punches and kicks.
22:29 <Voychek> RunningGoat: both have experience
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22:29 <JoshCarter4> I understood the training as including sparring.
22:29 <Voychek> one is with training and technique, one is straight brawling
22:30 <JoshCarter4> I'd give the former the win something like 8/10.
22:30 <Voychek> considering even experience and superior strength to the former?
22:30 <JoshCarter4> With fights, nothing is a guarantee, regardless of skill and strength disparity. However, it does become weighted towards certain factors.
22:31 <JoshCarter4> Something like light hitting the person's eyes at the wrong moment, or tripping over their own feet, or a lucky hit that causes a second of opportunity, etc.
22:31 <RunningGoat> I'd give the bigger man the advantage 8/10
22:32 <Voychek> s/former/latter
22:32 <+gonzobot> Correction, <Voychek> considering even experience and superior strength to the latter?
22:32 <Voychek> he's not bigger, just stronger because magic
22:33 <RunningGoat> someone with even a minor size/weight/strength advantage is substantially more capable than the smaller party. If the disparity is even as little as 5-10lbs, it's enough to decide the fight more often than not
22:33 <JoshCarter4> That implies roughly equal skill.
22:33 <RunningGoat> no, it includes skill disparity
22:33 <RunningGoat> weight disparity is /that/ much of a fight decider
22:34 <RunningGoat> "little trained guy beats big untrained guy" is mostly a movie trope.
22:34 <Voychek> i think you're misunderstanding, possibly
22:34 <RunningGoat> no
22:35 <RunningGoat> Even a weight disadvantage of 10lbs is enough to totally offset training difference
22:35 <+Ogre> yup
22:35 <+Ogre> little dude -loses-, barring some special circumstance.
22:35 <Voychek> right, let me set up a direct comparison
22:36 <RunningGoat> that's not even considering the difference of /reach/.
22:36 <Voychek> two men, exact clones of the same original fighter
22:36 <JoshCarter4> Hm, that's not my experience, but alright. Agree to disagree.
22:36 <RunningGoat> JoshCarter4: what's your training in?
22:36 <Voychek> one gets 5 years hardcore military training, the other gets an amulet that makes him punch harder and take more punches
22:37 <JoshCarter4> Silat and tae kwon do, but more on the former.
22:37 <Voychek> both get 10 years experience in battle after that
22:37 <RunningGoat> Voychek: question of motivation first, but assuming those ten years of experience?
22:37 <RunningGoat> amulet guy, 6/10
22:38 <Voychek> right, let me add another variable as to specify
22:38 <JoshCarter4> Oh, if he can take much more punishment, I'm gonna go with 6-ish/10 for amulet guy.
22:38 <RunningGoat> he's, in effect, hitting up a weight class
22:38 <Voychek> amulet guy is fighting 'uncivilized', untrained etc enemies
22:38 <Voychek> other guy is fighting people of equal skill
22:39 <RunningGoat> JoshCarter4: amateur boxing and (some) systema vasiliev here.
22:39 <Voychek> and it isn't much more punishment, really. he can take maybe an extra one or two punches.
22:39 <RunningGoat> funfact: most people can take a lot more punches than you'd think
22:39 <Voychek> i'm aware :p
22:39 <Voychek> this is just to quantify what i mean by more strength
22:40 <JoshCarter4> ... Just one or two more? wat
22:40 <Voychek> he can hit maybe 75% harder and take 50% more damage himself
22:40 <RunningGoat> 8/10, him
22:41 <Voychek> aight.
22:41 <RunningGoat> unless the other guy gets clever
22:41 <JoshCarter4> Wait, what martial art is the super soldier trained in?
22:42 <RunningGoat> also: whoever picks up the nearest heavy object
22:42 <Voychek> JoshCarter4: i don't know enough about the subject to know the differences.
22:43 <Voychek> whatever is fast and dangerous and makes use of grappling and kicking
22:43 <JoshCarter4> I just realized that if he's been training in something mostly striking, like boxing or tae kown do, would be different than if he was trained in something more on dominance like jiujitsu. Or in something that focuses on quick take downs like silat or Krav Maga.
22:43 <JoshCarter4> Hmm, sounds mixed.
22:44 <Voychek> to be honest i imagine his in-universe training would have been fairly comprehensive
22:44 <Voychek> far future supersoldier
22:44 <RunningGoat> far future BJJ-derivative, call it
22:44 <JoshCarter4> BJJ?
22:44 <RunningGoat> Brazilian Jiujitsu
22:44 <JoshCarter4> Ahh.
22:44 <RunningGoat> think modern Mixed Martial Arts
22:45 <Voychek> yeah RunningGoat that looks perfect for the situation.
22:45 <Voychek> he was sort of engineered as a precaution for possible alien encounters
22:45 <RunningGoat> it is, in one guise or another, the origin of pretty much every western military martial arts program
22:45 <Voychek> so they wanted him to be able to drop some big stuff
22:47 <RunningGoat> I always feel underqualified to talk about styles that I have no experience in
22:47 <JoshCarter4> Additional variables: Are they strictly fighting only with their bodies? Does the brawler only use his hands, or is he a kicker as well? Are they fighting somewhere where the environment (excluding using a tool/weapon) could be a factor? (errant light in eyes, sudden sound, etc.)
22:47 <RunningGoat> so beyond recommending it, I can't go into
22:47 <RunningGoat> whoever picks up the first heavy object wins
22:47 <JoshCarter4> ^
22:47 <JoshCarter4> Yeah, that would be almost a given.
22:47 <Voychek> JoshCarter4: good questions. brawler rarely uses his full leg, but sometimes uses his knees
22:47 <JoshCarter4> Soldier?
22:48 <Voychek> soldier will use literally whatever part of himself will let him abuse an opening
22:48 <Voychek> without putting himself into a bad spot, obviously
22:48 <JoshCarter4> Favouring soldier, but closer to 6/10 because of the abuse he can take.
22:48 <JoshCarter4> Kicks can be really really fast, with much stronger power and reach.
22:49 <JoshCarter4> Though admittedly, this is my tae kwon do bias.
22:49 <Voychek> as for environment
22:49 <Voychek> dark interior with plenty of space to move, pipes and shit around
22:49 <Voychek> think like a bunker
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22:49 <RunningGoat> if bar brawler dude is used to fighting all sorts of people, kicks ^ knee height are...well, a losing proposition
22:49 <Voychek> but more metal than concrete
22:50 <RunningGoat> he can soak the hit, and has hella leverage
22:50 <JoshCarter4> Yeah, first person to use a tool has heavy advantage.
22:50 <Voychek> and the brawler probably won't pick up anything, because his fists are enchanted by the amulet to be his weapons
22:50 <RunningGoat> Pick up rock. hold in fist. punch
22:50 <Voychek> he won't think about it like that.
22:51 <Voychek> he's used to smashing through whatever he comes across, rarely faces anything as strong as the soldier
22:51 <Voychek> if the soldier thinks he can't win it with his hands alone, he'll grab a wrench or pipe or whatever is on-hand
22:52 <JoshCarter4> Definitely advantage to soldier.
22:52 <Voychek> now, another factor
22:52 <Voychek> they're both wearing armor.
22:52 <JoshCarter4> Kicks can be as fast (or faster) than punches, with enough training. Plus he's fine with weapons.
22:52 <RunningGoat> then this isn't much of a hand to hand fight
22:52 <Voychek> about equal protection
22:52 <JoshCarter4> Runninggoat, I think this is just cqc.
22:53 <Voychek> ^
22:53 <Voychek> no ranged weapons are available
22:53 <RunningGoat> no, I mean because armor makes a /lot/ of difference
22:53 <JoshCarter4> Flat out boxing or just fists, 9.9/10 to amulet guy.
22:53 <Voychek> wait, shit
22:53 <JoshCarter4> I'm not as familiar with armour.
22:53 <RunningGoat> helmet+armor basically takes pretty much everything out of the equation, especially body blows
22:53 <JoshCarter4> So I can't contribute.
22:53 <Voychek> i just thought of something i hadn't earlier, derp
22:54 <RunningGoat> you basically just have the head, and only really from the uncovered part
22:54 <Voychek> the soldier's armor has enhancement for his physicals
22:54 <RunningGoat> depending on how much surface is armored
22:54 <Voychek> brawler's does not
22:54 <RunningGoat> You also have the knees if you're talking ways to break the knee
22:55 <RunningGoat> but rifle plates take the entire torso basically out of the equation
22:55 <Voychek> joints and head, then?
22:56 <Voychek> and to take something out of contention, both of them are capable of damaging eachother even considering armor.
22:56 <Voychek> it just gives a bit more leeway
22:58 <RunningGoat> knees, elbows, face, throat maybe
22:58 <RunningGoat> if they're not wearing a yoke, neck/throat. if they are, then no
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22:58 <Voychek> after some thinking, the enhancements that soldier's armor gives him in the strength department brings him just below even with the brawler
22:59 <JoshCarter4> So it's effectively an exoskeleton?
22:59 <Voychek> but the brawler's amulet makes his punches all that more dangerous to get hit by- his grapples and such wouldn't be affected
22:59 <Voychek> yes, pretty much.
22:59 <JoshCarter4> Does the brawler has experience getting out of holds?
22:59 <RunningGoat> consider also that armor meant to stop you from being shot does a really good job of stopping you from everything not bullet
22:59 <Voychek> JoshCarter4: no, he doesn't fight grapplers. ever, almost.
23:00 <RunningGoat> Now you're mostly stacking the deck in soldier's favor
23:00 <Voychek> i'm not trying to stack anything, just laying out the facts
23:00 <Voychek> i didn't think i'd have to go into such detail to clear this up
23:00 <JoshCarter4> I have a passing first hand knowledge of wrestling and grapples (mostly from sparring; I wasn't very good at it in silat, myself) and those are difficult to break out without pure strength or knowledge of getting out of them.
23:01 <JoshCarter4> Training > size only matters depending on the martial art.
23:01 <Voychek> i think i have the answers i was looking for now
23:01 <JoshCarter4> And in fights, every variable matters.
23:01 <Voychek> i get that now, hah
23:01 <JoshCarter4> It's why competitions tend to make it more sterile and fixed, so it becomes purely skill.
23:01 <RunningGoat> even holds
23:01 <JoshCarter4> (as close as possible)
23:01 <RunningGoat> I /do/ have training for getting out of holds
23:02 <RunningGoat> strength/size difference makes a really big diference there too
23:02 <JoshCarter4> This guy doesn't though, runninggoat. Would that make much of a difference if the strength is about the same?
23:02 <RunningGoat> height more than any other factor
23:02 <JoshCarter4> Ooh
23:02 <Voychek> equal height. maybe an inch shorter, advantage to the brawler
23:02 <RunningGoat> if the guy getting you in a hold is heavier, taller or both? You're at a /serious/ distadvantage
23:02 <JoshCarter4> That makes sense, since I'm barely 5'5" haha. No wonder I've been shit at getting out of holds.
23:03 <Voychek> hell, honestly the soldier might be taller.
23:03 <Voychek> i don't know yet, call them even for now
23:03 <RunningGoat> JoshCarter4: it's all leverage and reach.
23:03 <JoshCarter4> Even height, brawler barely stronger? What say you, runninggoat?
23:03 <JoshCarter4> And brawler is in the hold.
23:03 <RunningGoat> brawler loses
23:03 <JoshCarter4> I say barely because of the armor enhancements.
23:04 <JoshCarter4> 10/10 or?
23:04 <RunningGoat> holds are tricky to slip
23:04 <JoshCarter4> Yes, they are.
23:04 <RunningGoat> 7/10 to soldier
23:04 <JoshCarter4> I've personally never gotten out of a hold. xD
23:04 <JoshCarter4> It's why whenever I used to spar, every bloody person would put me in one. Bleh
23:04 <Voychek> alright, that answers it for me.
23:04 <JoshCarter4> Okay, that was a digression.
23:05 <RunningGoat> JoshCarter4: I can reliably slip holds from folks roughly comparable in size. I routinely got my as handed to me by a guy who was only about my height, but a good 60lbs heavier
23:05 <JoshCarter4> Damn.
23:05 <Voychek> you guys familiar with Halo at all? specifically Chief himself and Noble Six
23:05 <JoshCarter4> Passingly familiar.
23:05 <RunningGoat> he did teach me how to get out, but it's cintingent on, ultimately, not letting him get me into it to beginw ith
23:05 <RunningGoat> not particularly
23:05 <JoshCarter4> Is that what the soldier is basically wearing? The SPARTAN armour?
23:06 <Voychek> i imagine the fight i'm setting up is somewhere around what it would be if those to had at it, were Six better trained than chief.
23:06 <Voychek> JoshCarter4: yea but less wanky.
23:06 <RunningGoat> then it's not a hand to hand fight at all
23:06 <RunningGoat> armor like that? you've got no purchase for anything
23:07 <Voychek> well, that's what the soldier is wearing lol
23:07 <JoshCarter4> That's basically Iron Man tho
23:07 <Voychek> the brawler is wearing a fairly primitive set of full-body ballistic armor
23:07 <RunningGoat> you fight that kind of guy by dousing soldier in napalm and letting his seals melt
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23:07 <Voychek> well, that isn't an option
23:07 <RunningGoat> and then cooking him
23:08 <RunningGoat> otherwise...you don't win
23:08 <JoshCarter4> I'm now imagining Iron Man vs a significantly weakened Hulk.
23:08 <JoshCarter4> 10/10 Iron Man.
23:08 <Voychek> this is two supersoldiers going at it cqc where one's fists are magic and the other has a shitload of training
23:08 <JoshCarter4> Like, without a doubt. I don't even know what the brawler could realistically do.
23:08 <Voychek> both have roughly equal experience, but not against eachother's preferred style
23:09 <RunningGoat> 10/10 to the armored guy
23:09 <JoshCarter4> Outside of plot armour or creative fighting (which you've established is out of the question for the brawler) super suit > kevlar.
23:10 <JoshCarter4> Voychek, your penultimate sentence was heavily simplifying, since one is in a powered armour and the other is wearing kevlar.
23:10 <Voychek> okay okay. this is set in an established 'verse and i have examples of what the brawler would be wearing. it isn't keblar.
23:10 <Voychek> one sec.
23:10 <JoshCarter4> Plus the soldier has experience and expertise with kicks and grapples, while the brawler only uses his fists (and maybe knees)
23:10 <Voychek> kevlar* blerp
23:10 <JoshCarter4> Kevlar was me simplifying it.
23:11 <JoshCarter4> I sincerely doubt that it would be close to powered armour level of protection. That was the point of calling it Kevlar, for clarity.
23:12 <Voychek> https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/xKCdgO3r/image.png
23:12 <Voychek> this. no strength enhancements or any of that shit inside the suit
23:12 <Voychek> maybe un-bulk it a bit
23:12 <RunningGoat> the guy in the supersuit wins
23:12 <Voychek> yeah?
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23:12 <RunningGoat> though in practice, they'll both be thrashing eachother about for a long time
23:12 <JoshCarter4> This is the Kevlar?
23:13 <Voychek> yeah. that's the kevlar.
23:13 <JoshCarter4> Yeah, it won't be a curbstomp.
23:13 <RunningGoat> because neither guy is going to be able to do much damage at all
23:13 <RunningGoat> neat thing of plates is they tend to stop you from bending the wrong way
23:13 <JoshCarter4> But it's so heavily weighted to the soldier that it's basically going to be 9.999/10
23:14 <RunningGoat> yup
23:14 <Voychek> hmm.. okay
23:14 <Voychek> so, consider an ambush
23:14 <Voychek> soldier is hiding in a dark room, brawler up there walks through it
23:14 <RunningGoat> fighter has no real way to hurt soldier
23:15 <Voychek> how can i resolve this fight quickly
23:15 <JoshCarter4> Runninggoat, this is a 'verse where the punches will still go through. It's just reduced.
23:15 <Voychek> i want it to be fast and decisive
23:15 <JoshCarter4> Quick grab and grapple to the ground.
23:15 <Voychek> what josh said
23:15 <JoshCarter4> So there's still damage, but it's like wearing a helmet and someone hits you on it with a hammer.
23:15 <RunningGoat> soldier rabbit punches the guy in the back of the head repeatedly, then drops him from behind. crack head against ground repeatedly
23:15 <JoshCarter4> ^ That works too.
23:15 <Voychek> that'd brutal as fuck
23:15 <Voychek> i like that
23:15 <JoshCarter4> Depends on how/why he wants to take him out.
23:16 <RunningGoat> that's...not an accurate representation of how armor works
23:16 <Voychek> JoshCarter4: he wants to kill him dead, immediately.
23:16 <RunningGoat> but yeah, when in doubt? hit him innaback and hit him innadark
23:16 <JoshCarter4> Yeah, runninggoat, but that's the 'verse.
23:16 <JoshCarter4> Ah.
23:16 <JoshCarter4> Then go with runninggoat.
23:16 <RunningGoat> then grab head and twist
23:16 <RunningGoat> you'll either take the helmet off or fuck up the neck
23:16 <Voychek> what about kicking in his knee and getting him on the ground?
23:16 <Voychek> and yeah, that sounds good too
23:17 <RunningGoat> go at him from behind
23:17 <JoshCarter4> Eh, it'd be better to drop him to the ground with multiple strikes.
23:17 <JoshCarter4> At the joints, I mean.
23:17 <RunningGoat> also, once he's down, if the helmet is off? rabbit punch til he can't move much at all, and then stomp the head
23:17 <JoshCarter4> And then breaking him legs and/or arms with brute force, followed by slamming his head multiple times.
23:17 <RunningGoat> skip the extremities, you'll have trouble bending them the wrong way against armor
23:18 <RunningGoat> target is head, esp. base of the skull where it joins the spine
23:18 <RunningGoat> whiplash is a motherfucker
23:18 <Voychek> atm i've got the scene in my head starting with soldier hopping out of the dark, getting the brawler on the ground, and shattering his visor all over the concrete multiple times
23:18 <JoshCarter4> Runninggoat, the way it's portrayed now, their enhanced strength + armor is the equivalent of normal strength + clothes.
23:18 <Voychek> ^
23:18 <JoshCarter4> That's how I've decided to interpret it.
23:19 <Voychek> for the soldier, it would be like the brawler is wearing a heavy coat and soviet tank helmet though.
23:19 <JoshCarter4> Except that the soldier is wearing light "armour", like leather or something.
23:19 <Voychek> the leather ones from ww2.
23:19 <JoshCarter4> Using that analogy.
23:19 <RunningGoat> then you're gonna want to crush the back of the head hard though
23:19 <JoshCarter4> ^
23:19 <RunningGoat> it's still metal. it doesn't bend back
23:19 <RunningGoat> there, and the throat. crush it in
23:20 <RunningGoat> again, you're talking /kill/
23:20 <RunningGoat> not being sporting
23:20 <Voychek> well, actually the brawler's armor is a mix of metal and ceramic/platic type scifi shit
23:20 <Voychek> with enough force you might get it to crack and break in
23:20 <JoshCarter4> I'm picturing that when he slams his feet against the floor, it would effectively compress the metal/armour, squishing it.
23:21 <Voychek> alright, i'm gonna stop complicating this lol
23:21 <JoshCarter4> If not outright breaking it, anyway. I don't know the extent of the force output/damage intake that can be done here, in numbers.
23:21 <RunningGoat> plastic and metal will bend. ceramics will crack
23:21 <Voychek> so, back of the head; throat; joints
23:21 <JoshCarter4> Yep.
23:21 <JoshCarter4> And repeated slamming against the floor.
23:21 <JoshCarter4> Decisive curbstomp victory.
23:21 <Voychek> there's going to be a small crater in the cement
23:21 <Voychek> i'm going to write that detail in
23:22 <JoshCarter4> And basically no face left.
23:23 <RunningGoat> the cement may not deform very much, but the helmet will be very, very flat
23:23 <Voychek> cracked and pebbled, then
23:23 <JoshCarter4> And no face or head. :D
23:23 <RunningGoat> if you can crater cement, you wouldn't have a /head/ left
23:23 <Voychek> you seen the one johnny cage MKX finisher?
23:23 <RunningGoat> or, for that matter, crack it
23:23 <JoshCarter4> Runninggoat, think less human, and more Superman.
23:24 <Voychek> ^
23:24 <JoshCarter4> I think that's what we need to work with, here.
23:24 <JoshCarter4> Like Superman vs Darkseid kind of force against the floor.
23:24 <Voychek> these guys are durable as fuck, but they can deal enough damage to fuck eachother up
23:24 <JoshCarter4> But imo, just cracked/pebbled would be enough.
23:24 <Voychek> yeah.
23:24 <JoshCarter4> An entire crater is breaking the level of realism I'm assuming you've been trying to weave in.
23:25 <Voychek> lol
23:25 <Voychek> yeaaah
23:25 <RunningGoat> JoshCarter4: I mean you'd be exerting force sufficient to guarantee you've got fistpulp
23:25 <RunningGoat> you have trouble doing it with pistol or shotgun fire
23:25 <Voychek> RunningGoat: the soldier is capable of such a thing in the right circumstances
23:25 <JoshCarter4> Imagine their fists as hammers or a mace, and less of like, actual fists.
23:25 <Voychek> yes
23:25 <Voychek> that
23:25 <Jalapenyo> Just out of curiosity, are we married to bashing with fists?
23:25 <RunningGoat> that's well inexcess if realism, btw
23:26 <Voychek> this is future fantasy with space magic
23:26 <JoshCarter4> Runninggoat, he explicitly said that there's magic in the world.
23:26 <RunningGoat> you misunderestimate just how much force we're talking about
23:26 <Jalapenyo> So in this odd future magic world, 7.62x39 steel core FMJ doesn't exist?
23:26 <Jalapenyo> To clarify
23:26 <Voychek> the situation is gun exempt
23:27 <RunningGoat> steel core x39 isn't any better penetrating than lead core
23:27 <RunningGoat> despite what Feinstein insists
23:27 <Jalapenyo> Just an example RunningGoat
23:27 <Jalapenyo> Snerk
23:27 <Jalapenyo> I still get pinged for Feinstein
23:28 <Jalapenyo> Anyway, so all of the various methods of killing people in armor we developed from the year 1000BC to the present day?
23:28 <Jalapenyo> Chisel tip arrows, spears, maces?
23:29 <Voychek> Jalapenyo: they have all of those and more
23:29 <Voychek> but they aren't a factor in this fight
23:29 <Voychek> both are unarmed
23:29 <Voychek> ..well
23:29 <Voychek> they don't have external weapons
23:29 <Voychek> they're both pretty fucking armed without firearms or melee weapons
23:29 <Jalapenyo> ... people go outside without a weapon?
23:29 <Voychek> one just woke up
23:30 <Voychek> the other got his smashed in half by the sleepyhead
23:30 <JoshCarter4> .grab Jalapenyo
23:30 <RunningGoat> everything is a weapon. including a helmet
23:30 <+gonzobot> (JoshCarter4) the operation succeeded.
23:30 — Jalapenyo looks around
23:30 <RunningGoat> including your enemy's helmet
23:30 <Voychek> RunningGoat: yes i'm aware
23:30 <Voychek> just sayin' they don't have guns or pointy sticks
23:30 <Jalapenyo> I have, by my count, three improvised weapons, two knives, and an improvised club within 4 feet of my bed
23:31 <Jalapenyo> Which is probably low because I'm tired and unimaginative
23:31 <Jalapenyo> Also pepper spray
23:31 <JoshCarter4> How difficult is it to take off the brawler's helmet?
23:32 → IHC joined (IHC@user/IHC)
23:32 <Jalapenyo> Why doesn't sleeping dude have a weapon? Sorry I'm late I know this was probably already addressed
23:32 <RunningGoat> I have, within two steps, three firearms, two clubs not counting them
23:32 <Voychek> JoshCarter4: unsure, there's no canon material on the subject
23:32 <JoshCarter4> Because he could take him down, take off the helmet, and bash his head in.
23:32 <JoshCarter4> wat
23:32 <Voychek> but it is vacuum tight
23:32 <JoshCarter4> Isn't this YOUR canon?
23:32 <Voychek> lol no
23:32 <Jalapenyo> RunningGoat: some of us live in dictatorships of the fearful
23:32 <JoshCarter4> Well, then.
23:32 <JoshCarter4> It's fanfiction?
23:32 <Voychek> it's an established fiction 'verse
23:32 <RunningGoat> if he's strong enough to greatly deform ballistic armor
23:32 <RunningGoat> then he';s strong enough to remove a helmet
23:32 <Voychek> eyeah you could say that.
23:33 <JoshCarter4> My assumption leans with runninggoat regarding taking off the helmet.
23:33 <Voychek> yea same.
23:33 <JoshCarter4> Though it likely will be broken.
23:33 <JoshCarter4> What 'verse is this, and the characters involved?
23:33 <Jalapenyo> What about the broken weapon?
23:33 <Jalapenyo> Broken sword is still a nasty piece of steel
23:33 <Voychek> JoshCarter4: siiiiiiiiiiigh
23:33 <Voychek> i'm gonna get judged hard for it lol
23:33 — JoshCarter4 prepares to judge
23:34 <JoshCarter4> Calling it: MLP.
23:34 <RunningGoat> broken object is a weapon
23:34 <Voychek> Destiny. it's a titan versus my own monstrosity.
23:34 <JoshCarter4> Your own monstrosity is the brawler?
23:34 <Voychek> no, that's the titan
23:34 <JoshCarter4> Oh.
23:34 <JoshCarter4> Dude, you're making it heavily OP.
23:34 <Voychek> which?
23:34 <JoshCarter4> The soldier/your monstrosity.
23:35 <Voychek> really?
23:35 <JoshCarter4> That's just a personal critique.
23:35 <Voychek> titans are.. not weak
23:35 <JoshCarter4> There's strong, and "Lol I wanna curb stomp him"
23:35 <Voychek> saint 14 caved in an alien's face with a headbutt
23:35 <Voychek> (saint 14 is the same class as our brawler)
23:36 <JoshCarter4> The situation you've made is almost designed to destroy the titan with little to no effort from the soldier. If that was your intent, alright, but if you were thinking of some stakes, it doesn't work.
23:36 <Voychek> eh, no
23:36 <Voychek> not really any high stakes for the soldier
23:36 <Voychek> but he doesn't know that
23:37 <Voychek> well
23:37 <Voychek> okay, the soldier can still get shrekt by a full-power punch
23:37 <Voychek> but it wouldn't be a 1hko
23:38 <Voychek> but he can dispatch of the titan without any extraordinate effort
23:38 <JoshCarter4> Not being a 1hko doesn't mean it's not op. But it seems that your intent is for the soldier to handily beat the brawler in that ambush, then that's fine.
23:39 <Voychek> yeah it is.
23:39 <Voychek> like, 1 on 1, i don't think the soldier is going to struggle with many things that are in the 'verse
23:39 <JoshCarter4> Right.
23:40 <Voychek> but as of this fight, he's just woken up from stasis as of < a day ago
23:40 <Voychek> and has no idea what the kind of world he's woken in is like
23:40 <JoshCarter4> So he plans an ambush? How does this ambush appear?
23:41 <Voychek> well.. the setup for it is pretty early in the chapter
23:41 <Voychek> without major spoilers, titan is chasing soldier from where he woke up.. pod that fell back to earth
23:41 <Voychek> leisurely chase, not super serious
23:41 <JoshCarter4> Also, that's a definitely major factor. Is he not affected by grogginess or something? Or does this tech not cause something like statis-sickness/whatever
23:41 <Voychek> adrenaline injections
23:42 <JoshCarter4> >leisurely chase
23:42 <Voychek> look. look.
23:42 <JoshCarter4> Uh?
23:42 <Voychek> he's being pursued out of curiosity
23:42 <Voychek> not hostility
23:42 <JoshCarter4> Hmm, makes sense.
23:42 <Voychek> but _he_ doesn't know that
23:42 <Voychek> he makes it to 'his' bunker facility thing whatever, get suited up, and waits for the big idiot to walk through the front door.
23:45 <Voychek> but.. yes, he'd be feeling the after-effects of stasis; though they are dulled by a drug cocktail
23:46 <JoshCarter4> Well, the way you've set up this guy, he can take out the titan.
23:46 <Voychek> yep. that was the plan from the start, i just wanted to figure out the why and how.
23:49 <Voychek> now, the real bitch will be the fact that the titan has a little floating ball of wisdom that can revive him.
23:50 <Voychek> i'm just gonna have our merry soldier grab a pipe and smash it to bits.
23:50 <JoshCarter4> Is that wisdom ball something that is clearly reviving it?
23:51 <Voychek> no, but it floated in with the titan.
23:51 <Voychek> hmm.
23:52 <Voychek> maybe instead of killing it, since he'll probably hear it say something, he takes it and tries to get info out of it.
23:52 <JoshCarter4> Yeah, but what reason would he have to destroy it? Just because it's there?
23:52 <Voychek> yeah. that's why he's killing the titan.
23:53 <Voychek> he has standing orders and someone to report to, he doesn't really give a shit about the motivations of an unknown party
23:53 <Voychek> especially when he's been told by his superior that everything is hostile
23:53 — Voychek everything
00:01 <Voychek> HAH
00:01 <Voychek> JoshCarter4: just remembered, the resurrection is _very_ telegraphed
00:01 <Voychek> that ghost is fucked.