Talk on Rakhine Issue: Discussion on Finding Solutions
(Continued from yesterday)
Moderator: I am supposed to be a moderator but as a Myanmar national, I have just one new question for the audiences and all the TV viewers of the world. Just one question, there are over 190 nations all over the world. Are there any countries including the United States, the United Kingdom and the EU prepare to amend their immigration law just because of a commission’s report or because of the international pressures or even because of the United Nations? Are there any countries ready to amend their immigration law? Thank you. Now, we will go to the next topic which is quite important one that the external involvement to this Rakhine situation.
U Ko Ko Hlaing: I found three actors in this issue outside our country. The first one is international terrorist outfits. There are many names and many hats fitted in international terrorist outfits, very notorious one Al-Qaeda, and then ISIL/ISIS or many local organizations such as Boko Haram in Nigeria, LeT in Pakistan and HuJI in Bangladesh. JMB made a serial bombing in Bangladesh in 2005 or many things like that. Also we have our own brands, many brands since independence like a Mujahidin movement, Rohingya Solidarity Organization, Arakan Rohingya Independence Front, ARNO and so on. Let me give a little bit brief explanation about the development of those Rohingya armed outfits and what happened in our country. In 1980s, the more systematic organization of the RSO formed, they got funding and support from other countries I don’t want to mention. But, in short, in 2001, in Afghanistan war, the US found that some of the Rohingya Solidarity Organization members joined with Talibans attacking against the United State troops. At that time, the RSO were staying along the border with the Bangladesh.
The US put pressure intensely to Bangladeshi government and Bangladeshi government takes actions very hardly. They cannot live any more in those areas. They tried to take a safe haven at another part of our border, eastern border, the border with Thailand. There were the assorted organisation of the ethnic insurgent over there, they formed DAB, Democratic Alliance Force of Burma. The Rohingya organizations approached to them, to accept them to take refuge but within that organisation, some Rakhine groups strongly rejected to accept them. They had nowhere to go. So, they have no choice but to abandon the armed struggle policy but to take political aims. That’s why Arakan Rohingya Union (ARU) was formed in Jedda with the support of OIC and Europe Burma Office, led by Mr. Han Yaungwai, a well-respected Shan politician in 2011. If I explained this, I would have to take many hours so that I will skip that. And then, they have a new secretary-general, Mr.Wakarudin, who happened to be an American pathologist from Rohingya or Bengali decendant, who attended the agricultural university of Myanmar in 1970s. I have been a first-year student in the University of the Agriculture at the time. He was, I think, two years junior to me. And then he went to United States from Bangladesh. Then he got an agricultural pathology doctorate degree. And he is very good figure to start an organization like that. Frankly, he recently went to Malaysia, after he went back, there was a huge mass protest against Myanmar government in front of Myanmar Embassy. Who did it? I don’t know. And then this photo was taken by a Turkish news agency ANCA in 2012 when Mr Wakarudin starting to organise the ARU. At the same time at the border areas those people are getting trainings with arms.
Three peoples in front of this photo are Myanmar military engineer personnel captured in the ambush raid. They are building the border fencing when captured by those people. Those people under training you can see brand new small arms, M-23 from Chinese brand light machine guns. I am sorry to show this picture that local officials making an address you can see in the background one of the senior leaders of the international terrorist groups with Arab costumes. Actually, these are not fake pictures. I guarantee for authenticity of this picture. But they deleted that picture after it was rampant in the social media. They recruit these people. Myanmar military engineers personnel were killed. They were slaughtered by slitting their throats. The video of the scene exists, but I don’t want to show their execution on screen. In 2016, there were news about the link to Rohingya terrorists with ISI from Myanmar local media Mizzima and in recent days what I got information from the same new sources that when Mr Kofi Annan submitted his final report to the government, the mastermind from outside ordered the terrorist groups in Myanmar to take action within 24 hours after Mr Annan’s trip. What happened in August 25, we all know.
Thirty police outposts on the borders were attacked simultaneously in a planned attack like October 9 event. So this is the international involvement and also the role of INGOs and NGOs in this issue. I recognized and appreciate their efforts to help in humanitarian grounds. As the chief political advisor to the president after 2012 incidents, I invited and discussed with many INGOs including ICRC. At the time, the relations between ICRC and the government is not so, I think, easy but I tried because the ICRC is very neutral international organisation and cooperates with Myanmar Red Cross Society. We could make. At the time, native Rakhine people are strongly negative to INGOs. I suggested them, the ICRC, “You must cooperate with our local organisations the MRS, “Myanmar Red Cross Society”, to operate in those affected areas. Not to show your face, just to provide things from behind. That’s my suggestions at the time. But today there are many NGOs and INGOs. Especially INGOs have to rely on foreign donations and donors’ consents are very important for them. They have very specific mandate to whom they have to donate, to whom they have to appoint as a staff. That’s why we found senior local staff of them, a medical doctor, happened to be arrested.
The senior local staff of one INGO happened to be arrested because he was arranging the terrorist acts. I also want to elaborate more. In recent attacks, we found many aid items in the terrorist camps. I don’t accuse those organisations they directly support to the terrorists but the thing is that the victim community has strongly connected with the terrorist organization because they are the same family. So it is undeniable that they may have some sort of links to support international items to the camps. On the other side, local communities are lack of support so that what will be their feeling like? What we requested is that to render impartial assistance to both societies. That is all. When I met with the assistant secretary of state on the human rights and democracy and humanitarian issue in Washington D.C., I requested her to give aids to both communities fair and square, not to allow the frustration of the local community. That’s very important but the thing is that it didn’t happen. But I repeatedly requested. I will request to take serious on that case. And another one, media. I am also from media field. I am also a TV commentator, radio talks show host and also a writer. So, I know very well about media. International media would like to do the same thing. In media field, the saying goes, “No news is good news”. They did not suppose the good news as news. Especially for the tarnished image of the Myanmar military in the past history. They never try to break out those traditional wisdoms. Myanmar military, Myanmar majorities are committing the bad things such as oppression, gang rape and arsons against the Bengali villagers. In reality, we are doing good things. I think it’s time to stop those practices if you want to really solve the problem. You need a balanced and fair view. We need a free media, but free and fair and responsible, unbiased media according to the media ethics. That’s my point. Thank you.
Moderator: Some of the Bengali settlers have turned to militancy. So, I think violent happening all around north of Rakhine has been the result of the militancy and the encouragement of the terrorist organizations such as ISIS. Dr. Jacques P. Leider you are now requested to say a few words on migration.
Dr Jacques P. Leider: You can choose your friends, but you cannot choose your neighbours. For a nation this is an issue and you don’t choose the problems you get. You still have to look for solutions. I think that is what U Ko Ko Hlaing has just said explaining this side of the matter which is the national approach to the decisions. I am a little bit afraid that it might lead to the ideas that don’t listen to the foreigners, don’t take the advice of the foreigners. And you all know that Myanmar at the time of Union of Burma got this reputation of secluding itself from the rest of the world. And one needs to ask the question “Is it good for the country?” and I think many today think that no. Myanmar has to cope with a world where global communications works, it’s a hard time, but we need to face up to this kind of challenges.
I said that to my participants here that I didn’t want to comment alert on this issues of external involvement but I think that I catch up at this point not only because I am a foreigner but also because all the events unrequested voices is not always necessary. I also said that I totally agree that when it comes to immigration laws you touch something very safe for people, very personal that you don’t went outsiders to mess up with the way you formulating your immigration law. Nonetheless why do you make a law? You make a law because you are facing an issue that you want to have a law that is efficient. Now the 1982 citizenship law, 35 years ago, the question is not just, is it a good law or a bad law or something is good or need to be changed but it fulfilled the purpose. And in many of the topics we have been talking today, we think talking about the past. Only I have been talking about the present.
I think all we should do is to struggle to connect these things. You know what was very striking for me in 2012 is that As I am a historian, I am reading the paper in the archives and in a certain way it was liked some people were talking in 2012 like 1962 had been yesterday. So it’s like we’re starting the same things you know just again. That’s not possible because the world has been going on and there are new challenges, and the incredible complexity and the problems we have to face the issues and nowadays I think it starts you know our mind, our mentality, our approaches, sometimes problems to cope all these huge the challenges that many of the people who come here now to Yangon to Nay Pyi Taw to this country. And we have been talking about those human rights organizations and so on. The development agencies are not prepared for all these complex reality. The country still needs to be explained and to be discovered. And one point that I would like to insist on Rakhine tribes, the defence services, the government, those authorities which speak up for the country they need definitely make an effort on communications, communicative strategy you might call it. In other term, to fulfill this means, to cope with this enormous challenges, it is not enough to do something right. You also need to explain it to the rest of the world. Thank you.
Moderator: The next topic is on ASEAN. I will make a brief statement of ASEAN. Myanmar has been a good member of ASEAN for many years and the principles of ASEAN is non-interference and consensus. When violence happened in 2012, there was food for thought that all the violent acts done by the Bengali settlers have been the efforts of the external powers to split the ASEAN into Muslim and non-Muslim groups. I want to give all the audiences some food for thought that there are some efforts to split ASEAN into two or three groups. And then our last topic is how the current conflict can be solved.
U Ko Ko Hlaing: I would like to touch for a few minutes on the impacts of ASEAN unity. ASEAN countries are actually trying to build unity in diversity. We have a very diverse culture, political background, economic situations like that, but the Treaty of Amity and Cooperation based on the peaceful coexistence policy is well rooted in this region. And now we are building one community in every sector. But still there are different interests and some issues like South China Sea.
But I don’t think the Rakhine issue can be as much serious as South China Sea case. We have the populous Muslim countries like Indonesia. Myanmar and Indonesia has a long history of cordial relationship. Indonesiain its chairmanship of ASEAN, strongly supported to give Myanmar chair in 2014. Without Indonesia’s help, we cannot get that opportunities and also we have very cordial relations with other countries but this issue might be exploited for some domestic politics by someone. But I don’t think, ASEAN unity cannot last or can be hampered for this reasons because we have a strong practice of consultation and consensus policy and decision making bodies of the ASEAN. ASEAN can overcome this kind of challenges, not like the European Union. So this is my opinion. Now let’s go to next topic of current problem and suggestions for solutions. So I mention earlier since 2011 with the high tide of religious extremism, international terrorist organizations found potential hotspot in Rakhine and also elsewhere in Southeast Asian region like southern Philippines, and also Indonesia and like that. Many archipelago countries, where there are many small islands, are very suitable for terrorist strongholds for training and for recruiting purposes. And also many Muslim young people are recruited for ISIS in Syria and some sort of other terrorist activities.
This is the real challenge now and it causes the current problem worsens. And also as I mentioned earlier the Bengalis initiated a political move so these two front tactics – one is an armed revolt and another is the political movement in the international arena and also media campaign and many things like that. We are facing an orchestrated and planned campaign, that’s my assumption. And unfortunately in 2012, the serious communal riots took place in southern Rakhine’s towns: Kyaukphyu and Kyauknimaw.
By inciting the incidents, both terrorists and political provocateurs were trying to gain momentum in bad things. The then government tried very hard to tackle this problem. But it is too complicated to solve instantly. It needs a lot of concentrations from all sides, and also domestic politics in the neighbouring countries and also domestic politics in Myanmar play roles. They reinforced the worsening situation. At that time you may remember that in 2012 the newly elected democratic government has been taken place in our country but almost all of the international community had little trust in that government. They told us that this is an old wine in a new bottle. During that time we were trying very hard to convince them that “We were really changing”. But still sections were intact, international pressure intact, international media finding every false of this new government to show that they were right, saying that the new government actually was the military government in other form. So we were facing such sort of the very hard challenges. And also in Bangladesh, you may know that Bangladesh politics is quite famous as the two Begums’ War. Begum means lady in Bengali, the two madam leaders of the two major parties — Awami League and Bangladesh Nationalist Party (BNP). Awami League has very strong popular support. Sheikh Hasina of Awami League takes the pro-India stand. Pro-Pakistan BNP is trying to topple the Sheikh Hasina government. BNP has a strong relationship with extremist religious parties and some sort of militant groups, according to the news. So, there is the tendency to use Myanmar issue for their domestic political interest. Now there is news that JMB as I have mentioned earlier as notorious terrorist outfit, expert in making bombs are jointly trained with AMM or ARSA or others outfits along the border area.
This is not a new story. You can seem the time of the Afghanistan war we found collaborative activities of both outfits. That has worsened the situation. And also from the side of International media, international organizations. I have mentioned earlier political correctness, moral superiority or white man’s burden or liberal values or anything like that. To teach, to preach other developing countries people what’s the liberal democracy country or what’s the humanitarian value that is still going on. And there are responsibilities to protect the victims, even though victims are doing wrong, I cannot accept that idea. Even though victims are doing wrong, they should point out it and they should correct those victims. As I mention earlier there is no one-side victim. Both communities are victims in every conflict area in the world. The victims are grassroots innocent people from both sides whatever the religion and whatever the race. There’re the culprits that are real perpetrators who are inciting or provoking or organizing such sort of the terrorist activities. And what we can call “the covert operations”. We need to see very clearly so that I want to point out here is that there are some recommendations. This slide shows what they are doing now. Actually these people are innocent villagers. But they are injected by their leaders the terrorist/extremist ideology of the religion.
Previously, until recently they have been good neighbours. It was like in Kosovo and Bosnia, they are neighbours, they are very friendly to each other, they are working together. But now it is not safe in those areas. It has a great impact on regional development and it enhances regional poverty and I think it is the underlying cause of this conflict. We need to end this sort of the provocation for mutual mistrust, mutual animosity and the chain of revenge to each other. This is my message I would like to put up. For my recommendations, we need to be comprehensive on multi-perspective strategies. It is very complicated issues we need very comprehensive plans including medium term, short term, and long term plans for our national stakeholders. For the short term, the first thing we need is security, stability and rule of law in addition with relevant resettlement, physical and psychological treatments for their trauma from both societies. In the medium term, we need rehabilitation and also quick win in come generations and job creations along with the socio-economic development scheme such as health and education and also settlement of citizenship issues. We cannot skip or we cannot avoid these issues, we have to face reality.
We need to settle the citizenship issues according to the law. Both communities I would like to request to cooperate very peacefully but the measures must be according to the law, transparent and must be accepted by both societies. We have got 1982 law, it may be whether perfect or not, I don’t want to mention it, but it is still the law to abide by as a citizen. And counter-terrorism measures are very important. Before we take measures on such sort of the administrative mechanism, we need to wipe out the threat of the terrorism in those regions. It is very important. And also the detoxifi cation of dangerous ideologies of extremism in those regions is very important. In the long term, comprehensive development of the region is necessary for the whole area of Rakhine State because it is still the second poorest entity in our Union. And for our international counterparts or colleagues, international media and INGOs, I would like to request again to be balanced, to be impartial and equal towards both communities.
Otherwise, it will be counter-protective in solving the real problems, it may worsen the situation now. To be frank ,in my mind ,it is not satisfactory in these facts yet. And this is my point. Thank you for your patience. Dr Jacques P. Leider: I would just like to say a few words on this topic to look out for solutions. When you read the international media on Rakhine issue or many other issues it is like the government has to do this, the government has to do that and it’s like it’s all up to the government and, personally, looking back at history I think you cannot do very much without involving all the people. You need to talk to the people and I think that was just the conclusion that we have for, that you need to involve those who want to live peacefully whom you get together. Under former President U Thein Sein, and now recently, there were records that were made there is a case of list of things. It is not just like to do list that you are going to work now. I think that there should be discussion on each point, open discussion, head-on discussions, controversial discussions what can be done, where can we do some progress. I think that already works that is there.
One should not just pushes away because you don’t like certain things but it’s something that is there a basis for the discussions and for conversation but one thing is sure that I think nothing can be done if you don’t want or if you don’t involve the people. You see, I have kind of what happened to me is that in 2012 I got involved with this contemporary issue that I have never been throughout my research previously. What I see is that since all these events that have been organized all over the world, workshops, conferences, panels, long-tables, mainly none of these events they were, Rakhine people were invited. I’m not even talking about that Myanmar participants and I argued that when you looking back history it’s also coming down not just to the government or the security forces is also coming down to these people. Rakhine State is Rakhine State of these people who are living there and who want to live peacefully. Thank you very much.
Moderator: Thank you very much for all of your kind attention and appreciation.