Epsilon - Today at 10:46 AM
So we're not going to discuss what Rosalind does for Moses before putting up a wanted ad for the other captains?
Sekah - Today at 10:46 AM
No, we can.
Epsilon - Today at 10:46 AM
You literally already put the ad up lol.
Sekah - Today at 10:47 AM
I'm sorry, I didn't mean to upset you. What would you like to discuss?
I just wanted to get the wanteds up for Superbia and Gula while I was thinking about it. And you wanted me to give you space, so I didn't feel comfortable hitting you up to talk about Rosa
I'm sorry if that was thoughtless. What would you like to discuss?
Epsilon - Today at 10:55 AM
Sekah believe it or not but I'm able to put personal feelings aside when things need to be discussed outside of personal matters.
And to be frank, at this point I'm not that surprised, so I'm not really that upset.
Like I literally just said,  I'm not even sure what Rosalind does for Moses.
Sekah - Today at 10:57 AM
We can talk about that. What sort of captaincy would you like her to have?
Like, what sort of skillsets do you think Rosa has?
Sekah - Today at 11:02 AM
Also, what aren't you surprised about? You asked me to give you space, dude. I've been trying to do that.
Epsilon - Today at 11:07 AM
I did ask you that, and thank you for trying to respect it.  But if you didn't want to bother me, you could have just waited.  I don't understand the need to do it now?
And I'm not surprised because Sekah, I'm being honest here, you've acted very thoughtlessly - maybe not hurtfully, but very thoughtlessly of others - in the past.
Sekah - Today at 11:10 AM
I'm sorry. I am not trying to act thoughtlessly. I felt a need to put up the wanteds soon because the takeover plot is looming and I'd like to get some people in Moses' corner.
Epsilon - Today at 11:11 AM
The point of a plot is that you plot it out, Sekah.  I know you've had bad experiences with conflict plotting in the past but this is what I mean.  Looking past that, don't you understand how running around panicking, throwing up ads to try and solidify your position, is acting without considering the people around you?
Sekah - Today at 11:13 AM
No, I'm sorry. I'm trying really hard to consider the people around me.
I don't see the lack of consideration. Can you explain it to me?
Epsilon - Today at 11:14 AM
One sec, I need to take lilah out
Sekah - Today at 11:14 AM
k
give her a kiss for me
Epsilon - Today at 11:18 AM
Okay.  So let's start with the reaction to Kairos plotting
Sekah - Today at 11:18 AM
ok
Epsilon - Today at 11:18 AM
This may seem like a silly question, but you understand ooc / ic separation, right?
And anything I ask, it isn't about being condescending, it's about making sure we're on the same page.
Sekah - Today at 11:19 AM
uhuh.
Epsilon - Today at 11:19 AM
I'm sorry is that a yes?
Sekah - Today at 11:19 AM
Yes. Sorry.
Epsilon - Today at 11:19 AM
Okay
So do you understand then, how it's an abuse of ooc knowledge to react to Onii's plotting by hurrying up and trying to solidify moses' position?
Sekah - Today at 11:21 AM
No, I don't. The plotting is all OOC so far, so ... I don't know how it's different.
Epsilon - Today at 11:23 AM
But putting a wanted ad up, in reaction to that, is influencing IC events
I'm not saying that it's completely because of that
I'm sure you've been playing with the idea of wanteds for a little bit(edited)
But when you tell me you want people in moses' corner because of plotting almost the entire board isn't even aware of yet
including other Vice Lord players
It is an abuse of OOC knowledge, honey.
Do you understand that now?  Do I need to explain it better?
Sekah - Today at 11:26 AM
Yeah, I've wanted to put up wanteds since the site started. Well, it's kind of hard for me not to react. In the Admin channel, they're putting together a fighting mechanic that leaders can't opt out of that will allow a character to be killed/formally fought—entirely in reaction to this plot, actually. So I guess from my perspective, OOC things were already happening to affect IC actions—even if the board isn't aware of that.
Epsilon - Today at 11:26 AM
Mechanics aren't the same as plotting, doll
You have to realize that you're wearing two hats, and you can't keep switching between them to benefit yourself.
Like, okay
Have you played DnD?
Sekah - Today at 11:27 AM
No, I've never played it.
Epsilon - Today at 11:27 AM
OKAY WELL
SCRATCH THAT METAPHOR lol
analogy?(edited)
whatever(edited)
Consider this
Do you remember when I was making one of my characters - tally, maybe? I don't remember - and I was joking about gaming the system?
Sekah - Today at 11:28 AM
mmhm
Epsilon - Today at 11:28 AM
If I hadn't been joking, if I'd done that, I would be abusing OOC knowledge for IC gains
And abusing mechanics
The mechanics the rest of your team are trying to put together aren't there to target you, sekah(edited)
They're being established because of the board having a need for them
but consider this okay
Give me a sec to try and figure out how to phrase this
Sekah - Today at 11:30 AM
ok
Epsilon - Today at 11:31 AM
Think of it as-- you know what insider trading is, in terms of business, right?
Sekah - Today at 11:31 AM
Yeah, I do.
Epsilon - Today at 11:31 AM
Okay
Think of it as insider trading
You know things that other people aren't even aware of
You might not be helping set up the mechanics, but you're watching them, you're seeing how they work
And now you're turning around and using that information to benefit yourself
It's kind of like the insider trading of the RP world
Sekah - Today at 11:32 AM
Okay, I think I get it now.
Sorry for not getting it at first
Epsilon - Today at 11:32 AM
That's why I'm talking to you, sekah, I want you to understand this
Sekah - Today at 11:35 AM
yeah. I didn't understand. You, Pooka and Onii are planning this takeover OOCly and in all honesty you're not gonna have stiff competition, other'n me. And the fact that my characters could die against my will has prompted me to ... actually feel kind of awful about the whole thing.
But it's okay.
Epsilon - Today at 11:35 AM
It isn't a competition, Sekah
Sekah - Today at 11:35 AM
Should I take down the wanted?
Epsilon - Today at 11:35 AM
It's a tool to allow realistic IC growth
er, an avenue for it
No, you have a right to posted wanted ads
But I wanted you to understand how this affects other people
It makes the other admins feel like they can't trust to plot with you
because of the fear that you'll take it personally, so to speak
And abuse that knowledge.
Sekah - Today at 11:36 AM
ok
Epsilon - Today at 11:37 AM
Part of being a leader is understanding that it's a position to be worked for
And this applies in character because it applies in real life
I know that you're worried about your characters dying
But honestly... I think this might be good for you?
Like
As a roleplayer
It
er
It's an important step, I feel like
Because you're learning that IC actions have IC consequences
well
not learning but
you know
The point is
I know you haven't been roleplaying pretty much as long as any of us
And these learning experiences are important.
Sekah - Today at 11:38 AM
nowhere near as long
Epsilon - Today at 11:38 AM
Some people never learn it, to be honest
but it's a very important thing to know
And honestly... Some times characters get hurt
Sometimes, realistically, they make mistakes
Maybe Moses ends up with anti-dom drugs in his system, because he trusts someone.  Maybe he's cautious enough to not have that happen
Only you know his character well enough to know that
So we have to trust you to not abuse that and make him untouchable
Because no one is untouchable, sekah
If Izzy dies trying to take over Kairos, I'll be sad that I'm losing him as a character
but I'll understand that it will be because that's ... who he is, as a character?
Sekah - Today at 11:41 AM
I guess. And I don't think any of my character's are untouchable. I guess for me, the thing I don't like is the feeling that I have no consent.
If Izzy dies, you'd be sad, but you'd have consented to the possibility—you put the plot in play consenting to the possibility
And I was all for the plot, originally. But then the fighting mechanics were hashed out. And everyone agreed that leaders couldn't check no, but me. Sure, I don't mind killing characters. But I have never killed a character someone wanted to play—without their consent. Killing a character, raping a character, maiming a character—maybe I'm not following conventional roleplay logic, but I think those three actions should have at least the implication of consent.
I dunno. I've not roleplayed very long.
Epsilon - Today at 11:47 AM
I mean, the definition of rape is lacking consent, but
that is a different issue.
The point, sekah, is that characters aren't gods
Sekah - Today at 11:47 AM
No, I mean player consent
Epsilon - Today at 11:47 AM
By making leaders you consent to the idea they're not touchable
I know
never mind
The point is you have to understand that it isn't about consenting
It's about being logical and fair to everyone
Just because these mechanics are in place, doesn't mean your characters are going to die
Literally, from what I've seen, the only person wanting to shake up Kairos really is Izzy
And he doesn't want to kill anyone unless he has to
Mostly because he knows he'd get his ass handed to him by most of the other leaders.
I honestly think you're really worrying about this so much because of your past experiences
And I think it's kind of hurtful and a little insulting that you don't trust Onii, Ash, and Pouf to come up with a fair system
Because I mean, realistically, if your character has a chance to die, so would the challenging character.
And maybe it's something where you should offer a compromise.  Maybe instead of being an insta-death, you can opt out and have your character deposed and severely injured instead.
Sekah - Today at 11:51 AM
Yeah.
Epsilon - Today at 11:52 AM
'yeah' doesn't tell me anything, sekah
Sekah - Today at 11:59 AM
I don't know, Epsi. I don't really know 'cause I guess it's a different play style than mine. Consent is really important to me. My partner's enjoyment is really important to me. I preference the other player over the integrity of my character, 100% of the time. What you're saying goes against what seems right. I just don't know how else to put that.
Epsilon - Today at 11:59 AM
Seems right, to you
Enjoyment is important
Sekah - Today at 11:59 AM
So maybe it will be a learning experience.
Epsilon - Today at 11:59 AM
But that's what plotting is for
That's what gives people the chance to say, "yeah that sounds fun," or "no that doesn't sound that fun"
Epsilon - Today at 12:01 PM
And it gives you the chance to say, "Sorry but my character wouldn't do that."