[10:45] * enkelin (ae6dd457@CAirc-A7D1667.mibbit.com) has joined #commteam
[10:45] <enkelin> hello
[10:45] <Bageese> Hey
[10:45] <enkelin> we have an issue
[10:45] <Thermal> Hello.
[10:45] <Bageese> What's up
[10:45] <enkelin> have you heard about the tractor called BLAZER
[10:45] <Bageese> Yeah, and the dev team knows about it.
[10:46] <Thermal> Haha. Welcome aboard.
[10:46] <Bageese> And they ain't doing anything.
[10:46] <Bageese> :/
[10:46] <Thermal> Ever heard of the way more broken item called Impassable Protection?
[10:46] <Bageese> is there anything causing people to glitch out?
[10:46] <enkelin> yes I have
[10:46] <enkelin> I find it very inappropriate that these items are being left in game
[10:46] <Bageese> Right, I'll see what I can do
[10:46] <Thermal> Its ok that they are in game, but they should be made neuro bound and the people using them should be banned
[10:47] <enkelin> and not having been informed of them through the bug tracker or any dev channels, I see no reason why I shouldn't publicly discuss them
[10:47] <Thermal> Having them floating around on the market is wrong. The people that possess them as of right now should know not to use them.
[10:47] <enkelin> if they aren't removed I will tell the whole player base
[10:48] <Bageese> Don't make threats please, I'm working on it.
[10:48] <Thermal> Well, you know where the problem is? The people who actually found out about this was KC and goett, and goett was the one who abused it and sold the gear.
[10:48] <enkelin> yes I know this thermal
[10:48] <Thermal> goett also made a ton of money off of ULs since he could toss them from the Scruples
[10:48] <enkelin> you say you're working on it, yet the first response I get from you is that the dev team knows and is doing nothing
[10:48] <Bageese> I've already informed Voomy and I don't know what's going on with it.
[10:48] <enkelin> not exactly what I wanted to hear
[10:48] <Thermal> So imo, goett needs a ban, the bug needs to be listed, and something needs to be done to prevent the items from being sold on the market, or used at all.
[10:48] <Bageese> Right, but I can't get Voom to respond to my message and I don't have the authority to manage bans
[10:49] <enkelin> goett offered to sell me one, saying KC had assured him they wouldn't be removed if discovered
[10:49] <Bageese> ...
[10:49] <enkelin> now that I know KC is a dev, I find this pretty inappropriate
[10:49] <Thermal> Imo, a simple solution: Make both items tech 50, and neuro bound.
[10:49] <Bageese> That... is innapropriate.
[10:49] <enkelin> apparently KC bought the BLAZER for 100b from VaporiZe as well
[10:49] <Bageese> I'm copying this chat and sending it to voom.
[10:49] <enkelin> that's fine with me
[10:49] <enkelin> I let things go for a while but with this second item making its way to market, I just find things have gone too far
[10:50] <Thermal> VaporiZe has tried to sell one for a long time, I was offered one as well. I was given an Impassable Protection from goett that I keep as a rare, and someone in our team has a screenshot of goetts SD with both items equipped
[10:50] <enkelin> tech 50 and NB would be an acceptable move I suppose
[10:51] <Thermal> They can just make them Tech 50, NB them, and then replace the ones on the AIs that use them with a new version with a new name only or so.
[10:51] <Thermal> Even tho, I doubt any of the AIs are being capped for the use of wild slaves anyways :p
[10:51] <enkelin> heh
[10:51] <enkelin> I see that the problem has at least been fixed now
[10:51] <enkelin> you can't touch stuff on a slave that hasn't docked yet
[10:52] <Thermal> Yeah, they won't dock any wild slaves either. I wonder if goett or KC actually has any docked wild slaves tho.
[10:52] <Thermal> Both of those should have their accounts looked into after the bug since those were the ones to report, and abuse it.
[10:52] <enkelin> I understand Frac was given an impass. protection as well
[10:53] <Bageese> He's not using it
[10:53] <Bageese> And I'm not even sure if he has one
[10:53] <enkelin> with a wink and a nod
[10:53] <Bageese> Considering I'm his girlfriend and all. :/
[10:53] <enkelin> yes I know
[10:53] <Bageese> He was just as livid as you are to discover it
[10:54] <enkelin> I'm more livid to see that it's not been dealt with properly
[10:54] <enkelin> bugs happen
[10:54] <Bageese> Listen enkelin
[10:54] <Bageese> we have 2 programmers
[10:54] <Bageese> 2
[10:54] <Bageese> A shit ton of other bugs
[10:54] <Thermal> Yeah I was also pretty furious about it.
[10:54] <enkelin> listen bageese
[10:54] <enkelin> I don't care if it took a long time to fix
[10:54] <enkelin> that's fair with a small programming staff
[10:55] <enkelin> but the fact that the items are still working and in the market....
[10:55] <enkelin> that's not a programmer's job
[10:55] <Thermal> And that there is no information about it.
[10:55] <Bageese> right, Voomy doesn't log into Spacey dev
[10:55] <Bageese> we have communication gaps
[10:55] <Bageese> *our chat client
[10:55] <Thermal> Jeff and Voomy should have made a clear post not to use or abuse these items, or sell them in the market, thats what I would have hoped to see.
[10:55] <Bageese> I'll make that post
[10:55] <Thermal> Then we wouldn't have people making 200-300b off of items like these
[10:56] <Bageese> Okay, outline what we need to make in a post and I can do that
[10:56] <Thermal> Just remind people of what the rules are when bugs like these are out. Anyone that distributes items like these should get just as badly punished as those who gained the items
[10:56] <Bageese> That is in my realm of authority
[10:57] <Thermal> Mhm. Remind them of the part about abusing bugs, and that using items that come from bugs like these, is also just as much abusing the bug.
[10:57] <enkelin> exploiting a bug and not reporting it is "asking for a ban" according to HAL
[10:57] <Thermal> Then maybe just say that selling or trading of these items is prohibited as well, if you possess an item like this, don't try to make money off of it and do not use it. Simple as that.
[10:58] <enkelin> the selling/trading of them is another matter
[10:58] <enkelin> it's not like they are manufacturing credits
[10:58] <Thermal> The bugs were reported by goett and KC, but the issue is them giving away the items to friends, who then again sell them, to players who might not be aware of the bug, who then use them.
[10:58] <enkelin> oh, so goett and KC reported the bug?
[10:58] <Thermal> Thats what I've heard from them, yes.
[10:58] <enkelin> let's be clear
[10:59] <enkelin> the rule doesn't cover selling/trading these items, just obtaining them
[10:59] <Thermal> Yeah, but thats a mistake imo.
[10:59] <enkelin> well we can't punish people for something that wasn't a rule
[11:00] <Thermal> If you see it as a real life happening: you wouldn't go out and buy stuff with money that a friend gave you, when you know he got it from a robbery.
[11:00] <Thermal> Thats true, but we can always make up the rule now to prevent it from happening further
[11:00] <enkelin> bah, this is all getting side tracked
[11:01] <Thermal> And well, profiting from selling an item gained from a bug, is just as bad as abusing the bug to gain those items imo.
[11:01] <Thermal> But well, you two sort that, I need to go afk now :P Im sure you will find the right solution.
[11:02] <enkelin> my priorities are that the items become unusable and anyone who exploited receive a ban
[11:03] <Bageese> I need to know what exactly I'm saying here, using items obtained via exploit is against the rules?
[11:03] <enkelin> knowingly possessing an item obtained from an exploit and not reporting it is against the rules for sure
[11:04] <enkelin> whether you want to confiscate them or just make them unusable is up to you and the rest of the dev team
[11:08] <enkelin> using such an item to help your game is a further exploit, and surely deserves a ban
[11:08] <enkelin> and I'm not at all happy about the KC situation, considering he's a dev
[11:08] <Bageese> I'm not either
[11:08] <Bageese> I'm bringing it up with jeff personally
[11:09] <enkelin> I believe what goett said was: "KC said usually in the situations, the devs just let the players keep the items as trophies"
[11:09] <enkelin> or something to that effect
[11:09] <Bageese> Trophies yes
[11:09] <Bageese> Usable trophies no
[11:10] <enkelin> well, all this was said in the context of selling me one, which I declined
[11:10] <enkelin> so goett is clearly under the impression that they won't be made unusuable
[11:11] <Bageese> Goett is very mistaken
[11:12] <Bageese> And btw
[11:12] <Bageese> KC is NOT a dev. He's QA and that's it, which isn't that great considering he knows bugs and should know not to abuse them
[11:13] <enkelin> I don't have any evidence that KC abused this one
[11:13] <Bageese> What evidence against KC DO you have?
[11:13] <Bageese> I am talking to Jeff now
[11:13] <enkelin> but I know he bought a blazer from vaporize and goett apparently consulted him on the matter of the impass. protection, which means he probably sold KC one
[11:13] <enkelin> it would be easy enough to check if KC has one
[11:14] <Bageese> So
[11:14] <Bageese> KC didn't do anything other than buy one
[11:14] <Bageese> For his collection
[11:14] <enkelin> I don't know whether he personally exploited to get one
[11:14] <enkelin> but it does seem fishy to me that he advise goett in this way
[11:16] <enkelin> the first thing he should have done was to report it, not to tell goett to go ahead and that the items would be fine even after they were discovered
[11:16] <Bageese> I have to ask but do you have any screenshots or proof that KC told him this?
[11:16] <Bageese> I hate to play devil's advocate but if I'm going to get anything done about it I need proof, not hearsay
[11:16] <Thermal> Yeah KC bought Imp Prot + BLAZER from goett. And I know he has "tested" them as well on his BS Engineer
[11:17] <enkelin> goett told me this over vent chat
[11:17] <Thermal> But I don't think (don't hope) he uses them for anything
[11:17] <enkelin> I have no screenshots since it's never been my specific intention to get him in trouble
[11:17] <Bageese> Okay, I'm logging this and sending it to Jeff
[11:17] <Thermal> Yeah KC most likely haven't done anything or abused it like goett did.
[11:18] <enkelin> the difference is that KC actually has the power to lock down the bug
[11:18] <Thermal> KC loves rares, but he knows not to abuse stuff like that. Tho I would double check his acc for docked wild slaves etc to see if he keeps any of those.
[11:18] <enkelin> sure maybe he just bought them because he likes to collect
[11:18] <Bageese> What do you mean Lock it down?
[11:18] <Bageese> KC has no live server access
[11:18] <enkelin> make some noise like I am making
[11:18] <Bageese> Oh
[11:18] <Bageese> Yeah
[11:18] <enkelin> make sure that the items are rendered unusable
[11:19] <enkelin> as soon as he found out goett was distributing, because he KNEW that other buyers would actually use them
[11:19] <enkelin> instead he's just quietly enjoying his collection while other players are exploiting with these items
* Retrieving #commteam modes...
[11:20] <Bageese> If you knowingly have an item that was obtained from an exploit and do not report it, that is against the rules.
[11:20] <Bageese> If you knowingly have an item that was obtained from an exploit and USE it that is worse than the above and will get you banned.
[11:20] <Bageese> If you exploit a bug to your advantage that is against the rules. Abusing an exploit is a surefire way to get you banned.
[11:21] <Bageese> This is my post
[11:21] <Bageese> anything wrong before I hit submit?
[11:21] <enkelin> let me read
[11:21] <enkelin> what are the consequences to the first sentence
[11:22] <enkelin> if there are no consequences, what's the point of it being against the rules
[11:22] <Bageese> I don't know exactly what the punishment for not reporting something but not using it is.
[11:22] <enkelin> it's hard to prove that someone *knew* it was an exploited item
[11:23] <enkelin> it's also hard to prove someone used it to further their cause
[11:25] <enkelin> so I guess what you've written is good
[11:25] <Bageese> I'll add to the first one that it'll be dealt with on a case by case basis
[11:26] <enkelin> sounds good
[11:35] <Bageese> I have to run back to CSprings today, so I'll be gone for a good chunk of the day
[11:35] <Bageese> I'll have my phone on me so if anything happens send me an email to mlbaxterx@gmail.com
[11:35] <enkelin> ok
[11:35] <Bageese> I can take care of stuff pretty quickly if I'm informed. I take my netbook and smartphone with me everywhere
[11:36] <enkelin> good luck
[11:36] <Bageese> We're going through and marking stuff as NB for starters I think there's more we're doing but thought you should know
[11:37] <enkelin> ok cool