Jan 31 12:01:07 <spiral>	Book: Splitting the Difference
Jan 31 12:01:15 <spiral>	Section: Differentiating INTJs from INFJs
Jan 31 12:01:23 <spiral>	[Temperment]
Jan 31 12:01:23 <Anthile>	oh
Jan 31 12:02:11 <spiral>	INFJ: INFJs have a Catalyst temperment.  Catalysts need a sense of purpose and meaning, and tend to be on a constant quest for unique identity.  They value authentic relationships and collaboration, and employ empathy in their interactions with others.  They view the world as a journey towrads self-actualization, with a constant eye to people and emotions.
Jan 31 12:03:11 <spiral>	INTJ: INTJs have a Theorist temperament.  Theorists need to be an expert and demonstrate competence and tend to be on a constant search for knowledge in whatever ventures they deem important.  They value autonomy and independence in their activities and employ intellectual rigour in their approach to facts and data.
Jan 31 12:03:30 <spiral>	They view the world from a strategic perspective, with a constant eye on logical ramifications and the relationships between means and ends.
Jan 31 12:03:35 <spiral>	[Stress Response]
Jan 31 12:04:16 <spiral>	INFJs: may emotionally disconnect, use selective interpretation, and over-generalise a negative situation.  The paradox of this stress response is that they move from empathetic to unfeeling.
Jan 31 12:04:35 <spiral>	INTJs:  may over use critical questioning if they perceive themselves to have failed and "nit-pick" details.
Jan 31 12:04:43 <spiral>	The paradox of this stress response is to move from rational to irrational.
Jan 31 12:04:54 <spiral>	[Decision Making Functions]
Jan 31 12:05:46 <spiral>	INFJs use Harmonizing (Fe): They like to make decisions to achieve consensus and are gifted at creating a safe environment.  Using Harmonizing, they are adept at self-disclosing to connect with others, may show their emotions on their face (on good and bad days) and may struggle when there is extreme conflict.
Jan 31 12:06:21 <spiral>	INTJs use Systematizing (Te): They like to make objective decisions using causal-effect logic and are adept at organizing information and resources in the most efficient way to achieve the end goal.
Jan 31 12:06:47 <spiral>	Using systematizing they can establish clear boundaries of "right" and "wrong", are adept at creating flow charts, and may sometimes appear a little too direct.
Jan 31 12:06:51 <spiral>	[General Observations]
Jan 31 12:07:39 <spiral>	Catalysts (INFJ) tend to use Integrative Thinking: where similarities behind diferent data or points of view are naturally connected.  As a result, their language may include non-sequitors, as they link data that is not immediately obvious.
Jan 31 12:08:10 <spiral>	They tend to use global language including such words as never, always, etc, while demonstrating interpersonal awareness.  Their words will inclde mention of impressions, with no specific examples.
Jan 31 12:08:49 <spiral>	Theorists (INTJ) tend to use Differential Thinking: where distinctions in points of view are seen first.  As a result, their language may include analytical questions to more thoroughly define and explore these dissimilarities.
Jan 31 12:09:18 <spiral>	They tend to use precise language: with exactly the right word for the specific situation.  Words are their tools, so they will often correct word choice to ascertain that their understanding is accurate.
Jan 31 12:09:24 <spiral>	[General Observations Continued]
Jan 31 12:09:46 <spiral>	INFJs tend to value empathetic relationships and work best in an environment that has cooperative interaction.
Jan 31 12:10:00 <spiral>	INTJs tend to value expert relationships, and work best in an environment that has intellectual rigour and challenge.
Jan 31 12:10:20 <spiral>	INFJs naturally consider the people and subjective elements (Feeling preference) and see the exceptions to the rule.
Jan 31 12:10:38 <spiral>	INTJs naturally consider the reason and objective elements (Thinking preference) and search for logical consistency.
Jan 31 12:11:19 <spiral>	INFJs tend to give positive feedback as they focus on developing an individual's potential, however, for the same reason, they may struggle with providing accurate developmental feedback.
Jan 31 12:11:52 <spiral>	INTJs tend to provide developmental feedback as they focus on improving performance and may view positive feedback as redudant; "Of course you are doing well - I would tell you if you weren't."
Jan 31 12:12:13 <spiral>	[Questions for Sorting Between Catalyst and Theorist Temperments]
Jan 31 12:12:33 <spiral>	Listen for Catalysts' (INFJ) drive for meaning and significance, and to be seen as special.
Jan 31 12:12:43 <spiral>	Listen for the Theorists drive for competence, autonomy, and being an expert.
Jan 31 12:13:07 <spiral>	^ Question was: What drives you? What do you enjoy doing?
Jan 31 12:13:19 <spiral>	=> What do you really struggle with? When was a time that you felt you had failed?
Jan 31 12:13:44 <spiral>	- Listen for INFJs to describe failure as being betrayed, being made to feel undervalued, receiving no positive feedback, or lots of developmental feedback.
Jan 31 12:14:06 <spiral>	- Listen for INTJs to describe situations when they thought they had failed on two more fronts, where they had no autonomy or ability to influence future outcomes.
Jan 31 12:14:25 <spiral>	=> How important is it to do what is necessary to achieve the goal, even if people are not necessarily on the same page?
Jan 31 12:14:46 <spiral>	- If it is important, consider INTJ, because Theorists tend to be more pragmatic at doing what it takes to achieve the goal.
Jan 31 12:15:05 <spiral>	- If people are important, consider the INFJ because they will naturally want to build an element of consensus into achieving the goal.
Jan 31 12:15:22 <spiral>	=> When you are faced with a conflict, how comfortable are you in addressing that conflict?
Jan 31 12:16:06 <spiral>	- If Confortable, consider INTJ, because they tend to be comfortable calling a spade a spade, and would rather address that conflict in order to improve the overall performance of the system.  As they mature, they may access their Fi and appear more tuned into the fairness alongside logic.
Jan 31 12:16:54 <spiral>	- If not comfortable, consider INFJ, because they tend to find conflict stressful and may avoid addressing the issue hoping that it will resolve itself in order to improve the overall group dynamic.  As they mature, they may access their Ti and appear more logical in reframing and addressing the conflict situation.
Jan 31 12:17:11 <spiral>	=> Are you clear on boundaries in the external world? Who does what, what you do, and what you don't do?
Jan 31 12:17:41 <spiral>	- If you are clear, consider INTJ, because they tend to be able to see clear boundaries with others with little feeling of discomfort.  The clear definition of roles smoothes the operation of the system.
Jan 31 12:18:07 <spiral>	- If you struggle with setting clear boundaries, consider INFJ because they tend to prefer to build consensus and may feel discomfort trying to map out detailed steps and accountabilities.
Jan 31 12:18:19 <spiral>	------- [end of section] -----------
Jan 31 12:18:35 <Sataniel>	\o/
Jan 31 12:18:41 <spiral>	:)
Jan 31 12:19:11 <Anthile>	that definitely makes me more look like an INTJ with okay Fi
Jan 31 12:19:23 <Saffy>	Is there one of those for between INTP and ENTP?
Jan 31 12:20:40 <spiral>	saffy: nope
Jan 31 12:20:44 <spiral>	i checked for that as well
Jan 31 12:20:46 <Saffy>	Aww =(
Jan 31 12:20:51 <spiral>	it only compares Introverts to Introverts
Jan 31 12:20:54 <spiral>	and Extroverts to Extroverts
Jan 31 12:20:59 <spiral>	but I can give you the E vs I breakdown it has
Jan 31 12:21:31 <Saffy>	Yes please?
Jan 31 12:21:35 <spiral>	k
Jan 31 12:21:46 <spiral>	& that's interesting anthile
Jan 31 12:21:53 <Anthile>	it is?
Jan 31 12:22:00 <spiral>	and it sucks about those pms Sataniel: but i have no solution so input but , yah that sucks
Jan 31 12:22:04 <spiral>	yes
Jan 31 12:22:09 <spiral>	because you relate more to INTJ :P
Jan 31 12:22:25 <spiral>	but you related to the INFJ in the "Was that really me?"
Jan 31 12:22:30 <spiral>	and in the type assesment
Jan 31 12:22:38 <spiral>	and you seem to prefer INTJ in general
Jan 31 12:23:18 <spiral>	but i also specifically remember how you said your detraction from infj is due in large part by how you believe others may then percieve you.  which sounds very infj in itself.
Jan 31 12:23:21 <Sataniel>	Yeah, it's ok mind. They seem to have stopped reading them ^^
Jan 31 12:23:56 <spiral>	:)
Jan 31 12:24:25 <spiral>	Alright, so for E vs I, it has only a small section I've found, and it's mostly old information for me
Jan 31 12:24:28 <spiral>	but here it is:
Jan 31 12:24:46 <spiral>	E: energy naturally flows outward.  I: energy flows inward to process and reflect
Jan 31 12:24:56 <spiral>	E: act first, then think  I: think first, then act
Jan 31 12:25:11 <spiral>	E: process information in the external world; talking everything over.  I: process information in the internal world; think everything over.
Jan 31 12:25:32 <spiral>	E: are easier to "read": Self-disclose readily.  I:  Are harder to "read": Share personal information with a few close people
Jan 31 12:25:40 <spiral>	E: may talk more than listen  I: may listen more than talk
Jan 31 12:25:51 <spiral>	E: may communicate with enthusiasm  I: May keep enthusiasm to self
Jan 31 12:26:05 <spiral>	E:  use more expressive body language I: use more reserved body language
Jan 31 12:26:23 <spiral>	E: respond quickly; verbal stream of consciousness   I: respond after taking the time to think; more deliberate speaking
Jan 31 12:26:39 <spiral>	E: lots of diverse relationships  I: smaller number of in-depth relationships
Jan 31 12:26:52 <spiral>	E: seek outer world validation  I:  seek inner world validation
Jan 31 12:26:55 <spiral>	---[end]---
Jan 31 12:26:58 *	You are now known as Parnassusthile
Jan 31 12:27:20 <Saffy>	By that, I think I'm I
Jan 31 12:27:28 <Saffy>	But I think I have Ne then Ti too though =/
Jan 31 12:28:57 <Sataniel>	You seem very Fe compared to the rest of the channel Saffy, though INTP do have Fe Inferior, so... meh.
Jan 31 12:29:40 <Saffy>	Humm... mmkays Sat
Jan 31 12:30:08 <spiral>	Saffy => [EP] Saffy
Jan 31 12:30:08 <spiral>	Abschaum => [EP] Abschaum INTJ
Jan 31 12:30:08 <spiral>	Rain => [E] Rain dumb
Jan 31 12:30:08 <spiral>	Parnassusthile => [EP] Anthile INFJ
Jan 31 12:30:08 <spiral>	Sataniel => [EP] Cegorach
Jan 31 12:30:08 <spiral>	ziggy => [R] Ziggy ISTP
Jan 31 12:30:12 <spiral>	my current typings :)
Jan 31 12:30:20 <spiral>	(for all people in this chan)
Jan 31 12:30:26 <Saffy>	I'm ExxP?
Jan 31 12:30:33 <spiral>	oh no, ignore that
Jan 31 12:30:55 <spiral>	i have no typing for you because the conflict between what i saw in the youtube video and you reponses was too high
Jan 31 12:31:03 <Saffy>	Oh... sorry... =/
Jan 31 12:31:08 <Parnassusthile>	I'm INTJ rather
Jan 31 12:31:09 <spiral>	and i deemed the video not enough information and your self assessment answers to be useless
Jan 31 12:31:14 <Rain>	stop highlighting me
Jan 31 12:31:16 <Rain>	goddammit
Jan 31 12:31:21 <--	Rain (chatzilla@ecnet-62CDDF04.hr.hr.cox.net) has left #typetalk
Jan 31 12:31:25 <spiral>	:)
Jan 31 12:31:35 <Parnassusthile>	lol
Jan 31 12:31:38 <Saffy>	Why are my answers useless, but the video not enough information?
Jan 31 12:31:51 <Saffy>	Also, why "Rain => [E] Rain dumb"?
Jan 31 12:31:55 <Parnassusthile>	:P
Jan 31 12:32:22 <spiral>	hahahha
Jan 31 12:32:26 <spiral>	she's also in red
Jan 31 12:32:27 <spiral>	:)
Jan 31 12:32:31 <spiral>	hostile + dumb
Jan 31 12:32:38 <spiral>	im using it to improve my Si
Jan 31 12:32:43 <Parnassusthile>	:P
Jan 31 12:32:46 <Sataniel>	lol
Jan 31 12:33:03 <spiral>	i did this with a few things in my personal life too, just mapped them out
Jan 31 12:33:11 <spiral>	then i look at them occasionally, and get 'synced up' with what i understand
Jan 31 12:33:48 <spiral>	and it correlates it into the present really well, so that is cool
Jan 31 12:33:54 <Parnassusthile>	Well, I love flowcharts
Jan 31 12:33:57 <Saffy>	What colour am I
Jan 31 12:33:57 <Parnassusthile>	are those Te?
Jan 31 12:33:59 <spiral>	:)
Jan 31 12:34:01 <Saffy>	?
Jan 31 12:34:08 <Saffy>	And what does my colour mean? *is curious*
Jan 31 12:34:15 <spiral>	flow charts are not specifically INTJ but they are chracteristic of how Te operates
Jan 31 12:34:21 <spiral>	Te is systematic, cause-effect
Jan 31 12:34:24 <spiral>	one thing into the next
Jan 31 12:34:32 <spiral>	saffy, your color is neutral
Jan 31 12:34:39 <spiral>	(no relationship)
Jan 31 12:34:45 <Parnassusthile>	can I be Te if I suck at strategy games?
Jan 31 12:34:53 <spiral>	but if you try to kills me you turn red o_o
Jan 31 12:35:07 <Saffy>	=(
Jan 31 12:35:08 <spiral>	Parnassusthile: im not sure how strategy games play in
Jan 31 12:35:12 <Sataniel>	Can I be red? I like being hated. :)
Jan 31 12:35:14 <spiral>	my INTJ housemate doesn't play too many of those either
Jan 31 12:35:19 <spiral>	he prefers first person shooters
Jan 31 12:35:27 <spiral>	no Sataniel
Jan 31 12:35:30 <Sataniel>	:(
Jan 31 12:35:32 <spiral>	don't graffiti my Si
Jan 31 12:35:39 <Parnassusthile>	it seems to be some kind of stereotype that INTJs enjoy strategy games
Jan 31 12:35:51 <spiral>	it's on technological life support as is
Jan 31 12:36:13 <spiral>	my housemate never got into them
Jan 31 12:36:21 <spiral>	and i did, and he had opportunities to play me and others back in the day
Jan 31 12:36:26 <spiral>	he stuck to the first person shooters
Jan 31 12:36:36 <Parnassusthile>	I prefer RPGs
Jan 31 12:36:39 <spiral>	but today, he'd consider it all a waste of time
Jan 31 12:36:44 <spiral>	he considers me being on irc a waste
Jan 31 12:36:52 <spiral>	he questions how much i get out of this
Jan 31 12:36:57 <Parnassusthile>	storytelling is the most important part of a game to me
Jan 31 12:37:01 <spiral>	he considers most anything a waste, really
Jan 31 12:37:10 <Parnassusthile>	so do I
Jan 31 12:37:15 <Sataniel>	Yeah.
Jan 31 12:37:20 <Sataniel>	I get that too.
Jan 31 12:37:37 <spiral>	don't confuse with N
Jan 31 12:37:41 <spiral>	because i also , find most things boring
Jan 31 12:37:54 <spiral>	and dull, but what i mean by 'a waste' i mean simply not efficient
Jan 31 12:38:01 <spiral>	it's either 'resting' or 'be efficient' with that boy
Jan 31 12:38:33 <spiral>	or sci fi
Jan 31 12:38:48 <spiral>	:D
Jan 31 12:38:51 <Parnassusthile>	:D