rcelona1937> hello Highdude
<Highdude> high
<barcelona1937> high
<barcelona1937> letme ask you somthing?
<stoopkid> yo
<barcelona1937> yo stoopkid
<barcelona1937> howdy
<stoopkid> hows it goin
<barcelona1937> i'm fine/good/sleepy and doing some dishes
<barcelona1937> what about you?
<stoopkid> also good; not sleepy yet, but... i just woke up :)
<stoopkid> getting prepared for summer classes to start
<barcelona1937> :D i'm going to take a nap after eat. interesting, what summer classes about?
<stoopkid> i'm either going for an AA in math or an AA in sustainable horticulture, whichever one i get all my credits for first :)
<barcelona1937> yeah math
<stoopkid> the summer courses are all math/CS, it's hard to find the sustainable horticulture classes except for in the fall/spring semesters... there's a couple, but they don't fit my schedule
<barcelona1937> maths are beautifull
<barcelona1937> also sustainable horticulture sound lot of interesting
<barcelona1937> but i don't like the idea of sustainable in there
<barcelona1937> due is an economic term magic spell to end to say horticulture
<barcelona1937> basically sustainable is a magic word that does the environement hipsters like FAO OMS FMI BMI etc would paint in a green patine all their ecological enviorenemental attrocities
<stoopkid> i've yet to start any of the horticulture classes, so i don't even know how "sustainable" any of it actually is yet :)
<barcelona1937> ok letme put you an dumb exemple
<stoopkid> i'm 75% sure the program was designed to train low-income folks how to be landscapers for high-income folks :)
<barcelona1937> hehehe
<barcelona1937> A sustainable frezer=  two doors freezer american standards with juice and super big frozen AAA connected to a electricity in the middle of artic ice, but painted with green nature colors
<barcelona1937> well maybe they paint in white due now is more sustainable considered that mimetizes with enviorenement
<barcelona1937> sorry for this ruin example
<stoopkid> lol np
<stoopkid> i'm mostly going because i'm the relatively privileged situation that my parents will pay my basic living expenses if i go to school full-time and this is the only program i can find where i'll be able to spend most of my time working with plants :)
<stoopkid> i'm in*
<barcelona1937> oh yeah plants are beautifull and pelasant
<barcelona1937> also totally necessary to humans
<barcelona1937> have a garden where better than in cinema, is a pleasure for all the senses
<barcelona1937> smell, listen, see, feel, touch, eat...
<barcelona1937> also why not drink
<Highdude> yes barcelona1937?
<barcelona1937> you hate nazis?
<Highdude> depends on the definition
<Highdude> real nazis yes
<stoopkid> Highdude: you really assume that in ##antinazi we're talking about fake nazis?
<Highdude> on the internet... i dont know anymore :(
<Highdude> i saw the channel and was curious so i joined
<barcelona1937> ok, that's fair enought
<barcelona1937> welcome Highdude
<Highdude> high5
<stoopkid> yea it is rather problematic that the term gets watered down by misuse & overuse
<barcelona1937> absolutly
<Highdude> friends!!
<Highdude> lol i was hoping this was along the lines of what i would find here
<Highdude> do any of you ever slashdot?
<barcelona1937> Highdude: you think some people has born with the irremediable desire of jump throught the window and die?
<barcelona1937> nope what is slashdot?
<Highdude> a toxic nerd news agregator site
<Highdude> slashdot.org
<barcelona1937> oh there we can bust natzees?
<Highdude> where the term nazi and fascist are overused to the max
<barcelona1937> oh but wwith a minimal criteria?
<Highdude> basically
<barcelona1937> interesting
<stoopkid> Highdude: not my cuppa'
<Highdude> i am an internet troll at heart so i like to read it
<Highdude> and try to tell the difference, you know keep my skills honed
<stoopkid> basically just capitalist tech-bro shit
<Highdude> well
<Highdude> lol
<Highdude> the comment section...
<Highdude> thats why i go there
<stoopkid> (probably a lot of actual nazis lurking in there :)
<Highdude> the articles are always days if not weeks old
<Highdude> and the new "editors" have basically turned it into a political forum
<Highdude> not tech
<Highdude> you see a lot of delusion, and thought twisting there
<stoopkid> an interesting phenomenon these days is that real nazis are some of the main ones that overuse & misuse the term
<Highdude> its easy to tell that most of the people there have lived privileged lives and have never been poor
<Highdude> poor to them is less than 100k/yr
<Highdude> i feel the same
<Highdude> antifa
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* Now talking on ##antinazi
* Topic for ##antinazi is: Estudis per Combatre i destruir el nazisme i el feixisme || To Combat and destroy nazism fascism studies
* Topic for ##antinazi set by barcelona1937!~dkskd@unaffiliated/barcelona1937 (Fri Dec 15 13:00:31 2017)
<stoopkid> have you seen the trend where they say "being anti-fascist is fascist" ?
<Highdude> antifa <--
<Highdude> is all you need to say
<stoopkid> well, not exactly
<Highdude> O.o
<Highdude> how do you figure?
<stoopkid> antifa is a particular subset of people who would identify with the description "anti-fascist"
<stoopkid> somebody who doesn't know anything about it might think that these "antifa" people are actually just usurping the term "anti-fascist" but then turning around and actually being fascist
<Highdude> they identify in the same way as saying "i sexually identify as a toilet seat"
<Highdude> thats my point
<Highdude> theyre anti fascist in name only
<Highdude> but im sure youve heard the term dont judge a book by its cover
<stoopkid> this is why "antifa" is not all i need to say :)
<Highdude> well, to an informed person.. it is all you would need to say
<Highdude> i guess you have a point the more i think about the plebulation
<Highdude> i have regressed to not watching any news or tv
<stoopkid> i can't assume anybody i've just met is informed, i hardly even assume *i'm* informed lol
<Highdude> i read, and try to stay beyond the bullshit
<Highdude> yes, i used to think i knew everything
<Highdude> one day i realized i didnt know shit lol
<Highdude> so where is everyone from?
<Highdude> im from vegas :)
<stoopkid> so you think antifa is anti-fascist in name only? i personally haven't met anyone in person who identifies as antifa, the only people i've met who i either know or assume would identify with the term are in this channel, and idk whether or not *they* even know anybody in person who identifies as antifa
<Highdude> well, i have never met one in person either. im going off of what ive seen videos of on youtube
<Highdude> and news articles
<Highdude> interestingly enough the news leaves a lot of the bad side of them out of it
<Highdude> it may be that the ones in the videos and on the news are lone wolf groups that do not actually belong to the group, however ive never seen evidence of them denouncing the violent groups either
<Highdude> i think they really feel theyre helping the greater good, unfortunately their views seem skewed
<stoopkid> well, let's see the videos
<Highdude> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pi_vX0tknJM
<Highdude> youve not seen that one?
<Highdude> been a while so im trying to vet the videos as i dont have any bookmarked or anything
<Highdude> as i said i try to avoid the bullshit
<Highdude> well thats the only one i can say for sure right now that shows my point
<Highdude> i dont feel like sifting through a bunch of shit to find more but im sure you gather my opinion from it
<Highdude> i have never really met or talked to or heard of any other anti-fascist groups
<Highdude> kindof why i joined here to try to find other sides of the coin if you will
<stoopkid> wow no i hadn't seen that one
<barcelona1937> berkely milos
<barcelona1937> amazing good momentum
<barcelona1937> i feel proud of this people really proud, the yfight back all the violence of milo
<Highdude> how is milo violent?
<stoopkid> milo is like a gateway fascist, that's most of what breitbart pushes these days
<barcelona1937> highy you must to check out the S banon connexion with milos, doing of breitharth his comm platform
<barcelona1937> "we must to have gays on our side" Banon
<stoopkid> he's like their token queer to push the idea that you should be able to talk about things like genocide without having anybody disagree with you
<Highdude> who said anything about genocide?
<Highdude> i must have missed something
<barcelona1937> but is quite abominable think milos is got gays on your side, dumb and grotesque
<Highdude> i know plenty of gays
<Highdude> we may not see eye to eye politically all the time, but theyre still people i enjoy being around
<Highdude> i dont feel because someone has different views than you you should demonize them
<barcelona1937> it's a nazi
<Highdude> i also dont think people should be twisting others views as demonic
<stoopkid> Highdude: even if their views are to demonize people?
<Highdude> that goes for the right and left
<Highdude> how i said stoopkid i think both are crazy and stupid
<stoopkid> idk whether or not milo himself is actually nazi/fascist, but... he basically works for them
<Highdude> imo, anybody trying to be in government for life like they are all trying for, is a fascist
<stoopkid> he's a component of the far-right rhetoric
<stoopkid> i'd agree with that
<Highdude> its supposed to be something you do because you have a qualification, and it will help your country state or town
<stoopkid> except in the alternative extreme situation where everybody participates in "the government"
<Highdude> its them vs us
<Highdude> theyre bleeding our hard earned money into their pockets for fucking us over
<stoopkid> yes
<Highdude> and that is their sole goal for being in office
<stoopkid> so, what do you think of white ethnostatism?
<Highdude> i think its made up
<Highdude> there is no such thing
<Highdude> i feel you should be able to live wherever you are legally accepted by the state and people
<Highdude> i know tons of foreigners
<barcelona1937> ouch
<Highdude> im an electrician by trade
<Highdude> i work with a bunch of hispanics
<Highdude> im white and native american
<barcelona1937> what natives you got idea?
<stoopkid> you mean that nobody believes in white ethnostatism, or that the notion of whiteness is too vague to meaningfully form an ethnostate around?
<Highdude> chippawa
<Highdude> i was born in milwaukee
<Highdude> the latter stoopkid
<Highdude> i know people "believe" in it
<Highdude> and theyre morons
<Highdude> no country on earth is all one race
<stoopkid> do you think, for example, hitler was a moron?
<Highdude> none larger than a single trive
<Highdude> tribe*
<Highdude> no from what ive seen and heard he was apparently a smart man
<Highdude> but he was evil in his ways
<barcelona1937> well races simply deosn't been existed far away of beeing a tool of imperailism and colonialism to subyugation of others people in name of their gods and monarchies
<barcelona1937> ethnic is acceptable term
<barcelona1937> race not
<barcelona1937> at least to me
<Highdude> that is very true
<Highdude> because people look at race as c olor, and thats what the whole rage thing is about
<Highdude> for some reason
<Highdude> but look at cuba
<stoopkid> Highdude: his rhetoric was basically that of germanic ethnostatism though, yes?
<Highdude> or mexico
<Highdude> or south america
<Highdude> the hispanics are all colors
<Highdude> the indians also
<Highdude> yes i dont think he really knew what he wanted
<Highdude> he just wanted to kill people
<Highdude> and was apparently angry at jews
<stoopkid> but he didn't do that on his own did he?
<Highdude> can anybody do anything on their own?
<stoopkid> good question, but i'll assume you're implying your answer is "no"
<Highdude> correct sir
<stoopkid> so, how were these germanic peoples mobilized into genocide?
<Highdude> what are you getting at?
<barcelona1937> the rise of nazism
<stoopkid> ^
<stoopkid> it was built on a foundation of rhetoric that made genocide acceptable
<Highdude> ok i dont understand what asking me all of these questions does. im by no means a historian
<barcelona1937> even not us
<barcelona1937> no problem just we like to known people and known waht people knwon
<barcelona1937> cuz maybe they could teach us somthing or viceversa
<Highdude> well, were a lot a like
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* Now talking on ##antinazi
* Topic for ##antinazi is: Estudis per Combatre i destruir el nazisme i el feixisme || To Combat and destroy nazism fascism studies
* Topic for ##antinazi set by barcelona1937!~dkskd@unaffiliated/barcelona1937 (Fri Dec 15 13:00:31 2017)
<stoopkid> even more  generally, it's built on a foundation where murder is acceptable
<Highdude> well, were a lot a like
<Highdude> my main goal in life is to learn
<Highdude> any and everything if i can
<stoopkid> Highdude: so, would you say this seems like a far-stretch from Milo?
<Highdude> define "this"
<Highdude> idk what youre asking about
<stoopkid> genocide/murder/white-master-race-theory/etc..
<Highdude> but if youre implying that milo has said murder is acceptable,  i have not seen it
<stoopkid> indeed, that's part of the point of milo
<Highdude> how? and how you gather that from him?
<stoopkid> these things are not acceptable in mainstream society right now, right?
<Highdude> imo  the only time murder is acceptable is when someone is threatening you and your family
<Highdude> then they deserve to die
<stoopkid> they generally haven't been very acceptable in mainstream society since then end of WW2
<Highdude> but if someone isnt trying to harm you, there is no need to kill them
<stoopkid> i wouldn't say they "deserve" to die but i certainly wouldn't refuse you your right to defend yourself against an attacker, ideally using the minimum force possible to subdue them
<barcelona1937> hehehe
<barcelona1937> judoka
<barcelona1937> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judo
<stoopkid> so, milo specifically doesn't talk about these things, because they're not acceptable in mainstream society
<stoopkid> milo's role is to attack the people who *denounce* these things
<Highdude> well then who told you he said these things?
<stoopkid> he doesn't say these things, that's not his role in the far-right narrative
<stoopkid> his role is to attack the people who denounce the things
<Highdude> who is he attacking that is denouncing it?
<stoopkid> "SJWs" etc..
<Highdude> well i dont play into that whole PC thing
<Highdude> so...
<Highdude> they think everything is bad
<Highdude> also treating people special.. like theyre retarded
<Highdude> that doesnt help people
<stoopkid> it's fair to hold that opinion
<stoopkid> but also isn't PC just these these PC-folks opinions?
<Highdude> yes, in my experience with population(mostly in las vegas and online)
<Highdude> most people dont give a fuck abotu the PC bullshit
<Highdude> they just go along with ti to not be targeted
<Highdude> to*
<stoopkid> ok so, which of these two opinions, if held on a society-wide scale, would more likely lead to genocide?
<stoopkid> a) political correctness
<stoopkid> b) nazism
<Highdude> both
<Highdude> 2 sides of the same coin
<stoopkid> hrm, but the political correctness opinion is already currently what's kind of held on a society-wide scale seemingly as a result of long-term sustained opposition to the things that led to genocide in nazi germany, slavery and abuse of africans, etc..
<stoopkid> and like you said, the majority of people actually don't give a fuck about it as long as nobody's hurting anybody and everybody's friends at the end of the day?
<Highdude> ^
<stoopkid> dave chappelle is extremely politically incorrect by any measure and everybody loves him
<Highdude> in that there is hope that it may just blow over
<Highdude> and go away at some point when people get winded
<Highdude> as i said earlier im an internet troll at heart
<Highdude> so i love antiPC comedians
<Highdude> i also often say things just to see what peoples reactions would be
<Highdude> i always try to warn people not to take me too seriously
<stoopkid> so, do you feel that society has basically moved past the genocide and abuse that plagued the earlier 20th century, and that everybody should just be joking around with each other now because it's of course a fun thing to do?
<stoopkid> or rather, should be able to be*
<Highdude> you keep using words that have no certain definition in what were talking about
<Highdude> if by society you mean all cultures on earth
<Highdude> by no means
<Highdude> if you mean western culture, then for the most part yes
<stoopkid> i left the term open specifically for your interpretation :)
<Highdude> ahh ok
<Highdude> i try to avoid subjective questions
<Highdude> because theyre mostly opinion based and can become ugly
<stoopkid> opinions can become ugly yes
<Highdude> but i also feel everyone should be allowed to voice their opinion
<Highdude> however bad it may be
<stoopkid> the problem with avoiding subjective questions when analyzing the rise of nazism is that it's based in a narrative, which is really a subjective interpretation of the objective world around us
<stoopkid> the narrative is essentially the thing that perpetrates the crime, via those who ascribe to it
<stoopkid> when you let a bunch of people sit around and plan how to make white nationalism popular again, we start getting back onto that so called "slippery slope" again
<Highdude> the 10k or so of them in the wild?
<Highdude> most of them are in prison
<Highdude> i personally know a few
<stoopkid> and we don't want to see this downward trend in popularity to reverse :P
<Highdude> highly doubtful
<Highdude> unless the toxic attacking of people continues, then you never know
<stoopkid> well, that attack on the berkely building did look literally toxic with all the smoke and fireworks going off in front of everybody's faces
<stoopkid> irresponsible.. could've killed somebody
<stoopkid> milo can kill somebody with his rhetoric too though, and therein lies the dilemma
<stoopkid> it's not really just 10k or so of them in the wild, it's just that the ones who are smart don't advertise it publicly
<stoopkid> they just push the slippery slope instead and wage genocides that we already find acceptable
<Highdude> what genocide do we already find acceptable?
<barcelona1937> immigration, border, i'm thinking on mediterranean zone
<stoopkid> genocide of anybody brown, just about, it seems, though i may be using the term somewhat broadly
<stoopkid> anybody with a middle-eastern sounding name is fair game for the US govt for example
<barcelona1937> also feminicides peaks
<barcelona1937> traditionalist natzees fash advocate for it indirectly
<barcelona1937> some times directly
<barcelona1937> so when natzees ie goal the ethnostate then going to go to slavery womans
<barcelona1937> those bastards are this way haven't a good idea in whole life. when they reject marxism theories like.
<stoopkid> the mainstream western collective conscience basically brushes it all off
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* Now talking on ##antinazi
* Topic for ##antinazi is: Estudis per Combatre i destruir el nazisme i el feixisme || To Combat and destroy nazism fascism studies
* Topic for ##antinazi set by barcelona1937!~dkskd@unaffiliated/barcelona1937 (Fri Dec 15 13:00:31 2017)
<stoopkid> so what do you think of, say, richard spencer?
<stoopkid> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XLNLPIRS62g
<stoopkid> see, milo hangs with an interesting crowd
<barcelona1937> i think is ridiculous white supremacist with dumb ideas but also is like a fucking snow ball!!!!!
<stoopkid> these others push the actual nazist rhetoric, while milo pushes the idea that SJWs shouldn't be getting uppity about it, i.e. that these people should be able to just flourish and spread their nazist ideas
<barcelona1937> amazing video stoopkid
<Highdude> what
<Highdude> white supremicist karoke?
<Highdude> O.o
<Highdude> there wasnt none of that neo nazi bullshit up anywhere
<barcelona1937> did you see how ends?
<barcelona1937> doing the roman salutation tipical of this scum?
<Highdude> i cant really tell what he said but it sounded some thing 16
<Highdude> looked more like he did the rock n roll thing than a hitler thing
<Highdude> and the neonazi's i knew damn sure wouldnt associate with the liked of milo lol
<Highdude> btw ive been to prison
<stoopkid> neither, he was just pointing
<stoopkid> the point is everybody in the crowd doing the actual roman/hitler salute
<Highdude> i could only see the one douchebag to the left of the camera do anything resembling it
<Highdude> wheres the details on whos party or w/e it was
<Highdude> and what it was for
<Highdude> that would learn me more than him singing the national anthem
<Highdude> lol
<stoopkid> how about at 0:20
<barcelona1937> oh
<stoopkid> or 0:30
<barcelona1937> here is the rat
<barcelona1937> the spencer
<barcelona1937> damn it
<stoopkid> is that spencer all the way on the left at 0:20? i thought it kinda looked like him
<barcelona1937> at least looks pretty rpetty like spencer
<Highdude> well the context is missing for one
<Highdude> and for two its buzzfeed which is equally as bad as brietbart
<Highdude> those were the people i was talking about earlier
<Highdude> and once again 2 sides of the same coin
<barcelona1937> imagine they have been started the final solution 2 yet?
<barcelona1937> damn!
<stoopkid> the buzzfeed article doesn't really matter; bannon, breitbart, yiannopolous, spencer, etc.. all work together and serve different roles in the system of far-right rhetoric
<barcelona1937> Highdude you would say whatever but this people is dangerous and antisocial and i don't want they seat together at my side
<barcelona1937> your rethoric is quite fine and is totally understanable, due you a peace people, as would be. But understand my position.
<barcelona1937> if one feel or think in this world we are too many people, and decide for a final solution, like darwinism or neodawinism, neonazis, fash, trumpfkampfers, francoists, etc, etc... what you would expect they would do with all the people who aren't agree with theme, or are not in they averaged club?
<Highdude> i do think there are too many people in this world
<Highdude> modern medicine is part of the problem for it
<Highdude> so we have to be more vigilant about adding to the population
<barcelona1937> ok, then you just are agree with theme due this maybe you never going to see the other side of coin
<Highdude> im not saying murder millions of people
<Highdude> im saying we fucked up already, lets stop fucking up
<stoopkid> fucking up as in adding to the population?
<stoopkid> because it's not historically unprecedented that peoples solution was to murder millions of people
<Highdude> not completely, because then we become extinct
<Highdude> but we need to shore the numbers up a bit
<Highdude> yes barbaric solutions happened in the past
<Highdude> when people were more barbaric
<Highdude> the majority of the world has become somewhat civilized
<Highdude> obviously there are some regions and religions that do a lot to hinder that
<stoopkid> people aren't inherently less barbaric today
<Highdude> not all people
<Highdude> but most
<stoopkid> not any people
<Highdude> were animals
<stoopkid> yes
<Highdude> we will always have the fight or flight
<stoopkid> specifically we're pretty much exactly the same species of animal that perpetrated these genocides not that long and ago and in many ways continuing into the present
<barcelona1937> i know yeah they say oh parenthood plans birth control, but at the end, the usual americans got a consume 35% higher in all resources than usual world average that is quite lower
<barcelona1937> fuck america
<barcelona1937> save the world
<barcelona1937> ok sorry
<stoopkid> we're an animal that can be programmed to murder highly.... "effectively"...
<barcelona1937> but my friend in case of vietnam peasant the difference beetwen meat consume in comparsion to a north american it's like 99/9
<barcelona1937> but well if we follows the statistics the vietnam peasant going to die quite more easy due 1) is not american 2) his meat consume is quite more lower than nutriotn needs
<barcelona1937> and those stats are around 2015
<Highdude> well, im american. so i feel i live in the best country in the world
<barcelona1937> you like meat
<barcelona1937> ?
<Highdude> but i think everyone should feel that way about the place theyre from
<Highdude> yes
<Highdude> love it
<barcelona1937> well pretty good
<Highdude> need it tp survive
<stoopkid> what about, earth?
<Highdude> what about it
<stoopkid> you differentiate your country from the rest of the world and ascribe it this notion of "best"
<Highdude> well the world i live on is also the best world too
<Highdude> so, its one and the same
<Highdude> and i happen to love the particular chunk called USA the most
<Highdude> i know people all over the world that feel the same way about their chunk
<Highdude> and i cant says i blame em
<stoopkid> yes, this is called nationalism
<Highdude> i love the internet, ever since i was a kid
<Highdude> ive gotten to talk to people from literally every country on the planet
<stoopkid> it's actually a precursor to nazism
<Highdude> bullshit
<Highdude> pride is not a precursor to nazism
<stoopkid> the differentiation of peoples is
<Highdude> if so why doesnt mexico have nazism?
<stoopkid> it does
<Highdude> because, they have a lot of pride
<Highdude> how do you figure
<stoopkid> they're pretty fucked up to the indigenous peoples
<Highdude> you mean the aztecs?
<Highdude> theyre dead
<stoopkid> lol
<Highdude> :P
<Highdude> i see we dont agree on many things
<Highdude> but i love the critical thinking
<Highdude> this place is great
<stoopkid> so you think indigenous people don't still live in central & south america?
<Highdude> yes they do, its the mexicans, and hondurans, and chileans and brazillians
<stoopkid> "mexican" is not just one people
<Highdude> sure it is
<Highdude> its the people of mexico
<Highdude> the color of their skin, and the origin of generations prior dont really mean too much
<Highdude> people have moved all over this globe for thousands of years
<stoopkid> i see you're not familiar with anything going on with the rights of indigenous peoples in mexico
<Highdude> borders and hell the terra has changed
<Highdude> show me these indigenous people
<Highdude> because i know a lot of mexicans personally
<Highdude> i know a lot of them that were raised in mexico, all over
<stoopkid> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indigenous_peoples_of_the_Americas
<Highdude> ahh you mean the native americans as myself
<stoopkid> yes
<Highdude> well, yea europe kindof fucked us all over here
<Highdude> literally
<stoopkid> yes
<Highdude> but that was generations ago
<Highdude> long long ago
<Highdude> the people today are in no way responsible  for it
<stoopkid> not really
<Highdude> spanish inquisition?
<Highdude> err is that the one im thinking?
<stoopkid> that was long ago yes but the oppression of indigenous people continues to the present day
<Highdude> well if thats the case you cant only say white nationalism is nazism
<stoopkid> i don't
<Highdude> because skin color doesnt matter
<stoopkid> even though in this case it actually still is largely white nationalism
<Highdude> it happens in africa, with blacks, south america with browns
<Highdude> middle east with browns
<Highdude> you can go on
<Highdude> whites with whites
<Highdude> hitler anybody?
<stoopkid> because there are caucasion mexicans, african-descended mexicans, native mexicans, etc..
<Highdude> yes
<Highdude> same with americans
<Highdude> and australians
<Highdude> and british
<Highdude> i mean, i dont really get how you can tie that to white nationalism
<stoopkid> and it's largely the european-descended central americans still carrying out the systematic oppression of the native peoples
<stoopkid> ^ because of that
<Highdude> but you started this with people loving their country
<Highdude> but it seems like you mean with people loving other peoples country
<Highdude> and trying to take it over
<stoopkid> it's more about loving your country *as opposed to* other countries
<stoopkid> the differentiation of peoples
<Highdude> i dont even know what you mean by that
<stoopkid> the differentiation leads to prioritiziation
<Highdude> please elaborate
<Highdude> is this an open borders argument?
<Highdude> because i don not believe in that
<stoopkid> i generally advocate for open borders but that's actually not what this argument is
<Highdude> then i dont think i see where youre going with this
<Highdude> prioritizing of what exactly?
<stoopkid> one people over another
<Highdude> my countrys well being? i would hope every country would do that
<stoopkid> i would hope every country would seek to ensure *everybody's* well being
<Highdude> well the fact is i care about the well being of my country more than *insert anything other than USA*'s well being
<Highdude> but sometimes that means you cant help another country until youre done helping your country
<Highdude> or else nobody ends up getting helped
<Highdude> also the bettering of one starts with ones self
<stoopkid> i don't disagree with this, you're basically arguing that you should focus on what it's in proximity to you because that's what you can actually do something about
<stoopkid> where i differ from you though is that i view our nation-states as highly artificial notions of proximity
<stoopkid> for example somebody in texas is in closer proximity to mexico than they are to somebody in alaska or maine
<stoopkid> and where i also differ is that the prioritization of your own country over another often leads to acceptance of exploitation of other countries for the sake of benefiting your own at their expense
<Highdude> thats called business..
<Highdude> and its really human nature
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* Now talking on ##antinazi
* Topic for ##antinazi is: Estudis per Combatre i destruir el nazisme i el feixisme || To Combat and destroy nazism fascism studies
* Topic for ##antinazi set by barcelona1937!~dkskd@unaffiliated/barcelona1937 (Fri Dec 15 13:00:31 2017)
<Highdude> and its really human nature
<stoopkid> so your view of war, genocide, slavery, and general exploitation and oppression is that it's "just business"?
<Highdude> as we discussed before
<stoopkid> you certainly wouldn't be alone there, but, at least maybe in this chatroom you would be :P
<Highdude> no youre twisting words
<Highdude> im saying it happens and will never stop
<Highdude> comes back to us vs them
<Highdude> war happens, it sucks that it does.. but it does
<Highdude> once again human nature
<Highdude> there is only one way to stop war, and that is for everyone to kill their self
<stoopkid> this us vs them mentality is exactly the facet of human nature we fight against
<Highdude> this comes back to why i dont think there should be lifelong politicians
<Highdude> the powerful are the ones that oppress
<stoopkid> this is true, also the ones that turn the rest of us against each other and foster the us vs. them mentality to begin with
<Highdude> the worst oppressors are the ones that do it to get rich off of us
<stoopkid> their riches certainly make them the most effective
<Highdude> not all rich people are bad people
<stoopkid> i never said that :)
<Highdude> but most of the ones that are bad pay the life long politicians
<stoopkid> ah
<Highdude> this way the life long politicians turn a blind eye when they oppress
<Highdude> which is bad for you and me
<stoopkid> idk, a small few of them might just be naive, like celebrities etc..
<Highdude> lol celebrities
<Highdude> they're an alien race
<stoopkid> but the majority of them are definitely up to no good for the rest of us :)
<Highdude> im almost positive
<stoopkid> regardless of intention
<stoopkid> so, the fight against nazism is less about "here's the nazis, get 'em!", and more about cultivating an environment that rejects everything that is nazism to begin with
<stoopkid> same thing with the bad-politicians problem also..
<stoopkid> nationalist rhetoric is rather counterproductive in that fight as well
<Highdude> but now youre telling people how  t o feel and think
<Highdude> and thats fascism
<stoopkid> that's actually not what fascism is, and also isn't what i'm doing
<Highdude> what do you call it then if not fascism?
<Highdude> and im not saying youre specifically doing it, but if you dont allow people to think for their self, thats wrong
<Highdude> had nobody ever thought for their self, we would still be living in caves
<stoopkid> the point isn't about stopping you from thinking for yourself, imo anybody who falls into the traps of nazism/fascism is likely having somebody (or "something") else do their thinking for them
<Highdude> settled, we need to kill all the stupid people then
<Highdude> :)
<Highdude> i vote by removing warning labels!
<stoopkid> highly intelligent people fall into these traps as well
<stoopkid> it's all a matter of narrative
<stoopkid> if you think people on the anti-fascist side of things are bad about pushing narratives, wait until you let the fascists have a go at it again :)
<stoopkid> one side says "don't kill me" the other side says "let me kill you"
<stoopkid> when we bring it down to this fundamental dilemma, we can see that the divide is irreconcilable, there is no narrative consistent with both fascism and anti-fascism simultaneously
<stoopkid> this is an existential ideological and often physical war, technically been going on for millennia, up through the present day
<stoopkid> the physical universe doesn't care one way or the other whether we choose fascism or anti-fascism, there's no property of logic forbidding a fascist system of social organization and exploitation and murder, it's left up to be a collective human choice
<stoopkid> victory over nazism is ultimately the victory over the pursuit of nazism, this is why we try to ideologically whack-a-mole it everywhere it starts creeping back up again
<barcelona1937> damn i love stoopkid!
<barcelona1937> YEAH!
<stoopkid> and i wouldn't characterize this as controlling thought, for example we'll tell you all about what fascism is and let you make up your own mind about it
<Highdude> how do you whack-a-mole it?
<barcelona1937> hehehe
<stoopkid> depends on the situation
<stoopkid> but the goal is always collective decision away from fascist policy, in action, in spirit, or anywhere
<stoopkid> think of it like this, take one of these school shootings that's happened recently in the US
<stoopkid> in most of the cases there were a lot of warning signs that in hindsight would've suggested that the kid needed intervention in his life in some kind of way to prevent the escalation
<stoopkid> any such intervention would be an attempt to control the way the kid thinks
<stoopkid> but normally we just call this "trying to convince the kid not to go shoot up the school"
<barcelona1937> last one was in a journalist rotative
<stoopkid> also, anti-fascists & PC folks generally don't even seek to take away the free speech of fascists, they're just not gonna let fascists publicly talk about it without being there to recontextualize it into an anti-fascist narrative, and they're not gonna platform them or support them etc..
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* Now talking on ##antinazi
* Topic for ##antinazi is: Estudis per Combatre i destruir el nazisme i el feixisme || To Combat and destroy nazism fascism studies
* Topic for ##antinazi set by barcelona1937!~dkskd@unaffiliated/barcelona1937 (Fri Dec 15 13:00:31 2017)
<Highdude> sounds like a whole lot of attempted thought control to me
<barcelona1937> well Highdude if i tell you i'm billonary and can make you stop to work for real?
<barcelona1937> i'm soros
<barcelona1937> and you kinda get my grace and simphaty and i'm going to build you a palace in the sky?
<barcelona1937> what you will do?
<Highdude> probably nothing but laugh
<barcelona1937> hehehe yeah
<barcelona1937> but imagine i could relly make you belibe this
<Highdude> making me believe would be expensive
<barcelona1937> hehehe
<barcelona1937> well the point is if you belive in all my bullshit and at the end it's all to really screw you and all your money, waht you would think about me?
<Highdude> prison rape
<Highdude> as in how im getting my monies back!
<barcelona1937> also in beetwen all you trust gived to me since you been think i'm rich, just for a second, i will been won, due i'm precisly this: a profesional liar
<barcelona1937> that's my power over you
<barcelona1937> i controled you by this idiotic stuff, that neither a children will get caught
<Highdude> i dont think i understand
<barcelona1937> well, now do a extrapolation with natzees and fash liers i.e: white/aryan is superior race. Holocaust never been happened. Marxism is going to fuck your lives. Mix race is totally disaster. Gays are a dissease or mental disfunction. Mental disfuctional people never been killed by nazis or fash. and a large etcetera
<barcelona1937> and now imagine you are involved in some way on one of this lies, i.e: you seems not be in this superior race, your familly dead mostly in holocaus, you're marxist, you a mix of lot of "races"...