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Welcome to Radio Uninvited, the podcast. This is Bryce Noble. Today we're talking about computer hacking, deficiencies in cyber law and the resiliency of the human spirit with computer security expert and author Alberto Daniel Hill. It's a compelling story with many layers. We hope you enjoy it. We're listening to Bob Johnson, Asya Hussein, Ariel Ray, Bryce and we have a really, really special guest with us. He is all over Twitter and really all over conversations around hacking and white hacking. Alberto Hill, you've seen him on Darknet Diaries, you've seen him on a ton of different shows. He was a child prodigy and infamously wrongfully accused and put behind bars for eight months, which was a life-changing event for him. He wrote "Login to Hell," which was a massive blockbuster book that has helped everybody really endear to him and become familiar with his story of trauma and recovering from that trauma. And today we have him with us to tell a little bit more about what he has going on. Alberto, welcome. Hello. Thank you very much for having me here. It's a pleasure to be with you guys. You are not regular interviews. You are my family to me. So thank you. Yeah, no, thank you. No, this is great. And yeah, so Alberto, we want to pick it up to exactly what Asya started off with. You have a very deep and rich story that you covered in your book, Log Into Hell. And we'd like you to kind of pick it up at the first logical point. I know we could really talk for hours about your story. It's so intriguing, but the first logical point in time. And then as you kind of go through it, we'll, you know, pick at you with some questions and then go from there. So let's start. Okay, actually, yeah, I am a computer engineer. I've been working in cybersecurity for more than 20 years. Different fields of cybersecurity like computer forensics, ethical hacking, consulting, implementing projects of cybersecurity for the government of my country and private companies. Yes, I have an event in my life that not many people have the opportunity to experience and it was a life-changing event. In 2017, the Interpol knocked on my door and they arrested me. They executed a search warrant on my apartment and they accused me of having hacked a local provider. I was completely lost. I didn't understand what was going on, why that was happening. And in order to understand a little bit of that, we have to go back a couple of years ago, before that story, where my ex-girlfriend was part of a medical provider that she asked me one day in October of 2014 to enter in order to see set an appointment with a doctor. And when I went to the site, I could access to the whole system as an administrator, just using the username admin and the password admin. And I couldn't believe it, but yeah, I could access to more than 200,000 medical records of the institution. That was very serious. And I immediately reported that to the state of my country. which is the agency of the government that takes care of those kind of issues. They answered immediately. It was a Saturday. I remember as if it was yesterday and it's been, wow, it's been like nine years now. Well, they confirmed that my report was correct. They gave me a ticket number to track the report. Then I forgot about it. That wasn't my problem anymore. It was a hell of a problem. Next year in 2015, again, I entered into the same medical provider, but this time I had access to all the records of the people that were in the database, just the altering parameter in the URL of the system. So I just have to change a four for a five or five for a six, and I could browse through all the medical records of the 200,000 people there. without a user-level password. So I had a huge problem reported again to the SERT. They answered that mail, again thanking me for the report and with a ticket number. Well, I forgot all that. Then we go back to the moment I was starting talking about 2017, September 9th. It was a Saturday. And then when the Interpol came to my apartment, they arrested me. They sent me to their premises, they interrogated me, they treated me really badly. They were asking me questions that made no sense, that absolutely showed that they had no idea actually what they were asking me. So I couldn't answer to those questions properly because the questions were completely from a technical point of you making no sense in most of them. And anyway, I spent the night there in a cell. The next day they took my girlfriend, arrested as well. One of the officers came to me and he told me that for me the best thing to do was to admit having sent an email to the medical provider asking for a certain amount of cryptocurrencies not to release information that was supposedly stolen from the system that was the medical provider that I had reported these problems about in the past. And I thought, okay, I was completely blank. I didn't know what to do. I was really confused. It was a situation that I never expected which happened in my life. - Let me interject right there. Just to recap, I think it'll be helpful for the audience. So, again, really quickly, tell me if I got it right. So 2014, you're helping your girlfriend out with something that had to do with her work, right? Logging in to some sort of administrative site as it relates to hospital care or medical, right? She's doing, she works for some medical group or department. You got access to a bunch of patient records just kind of poking around with because that's what you do, right? You do penetration testing and things that for those who don't know that's that's a certain type of cybersecurity person who tests the validity of networks and makes sure they're secure. So this is that's kind of a common thing somebody in your in your role might do is when you when you attach to something you just kind of poke around just basically out of habit, right? And so you found that and reported it to the cert which is the local authority to report such things to, right? And then three years pass, right? Nothing, you think everything's okay and you just get a knock on the door, you're arrested and you're taken by Interpol, and for those people don't know, Interpol is basically like an international police, right? And they start to question you, they arrest your girlfriend, you said at the time too, and you said you basically had confessed to something, right? That you sent some email that they, that they thought you did, but you really didn't. Is that correct? >> That is correct. The only thing is that in 2014, the only link between my ex-girlfriend and the medical provider was that she was a customer of that hospital. She was part of -- she was getting health assistance there. She didn't have any kind of link. So all she wanted me was to enter into the system. to set up an appointment with a doctor. That was what she wanted. And yeah, with the mindset of somebody who works in cybersecurity, it's completely normal to be in front of a system and try a few of its silly and easy things in order to try to see how the system behaves. And well, one among those things is trying to put some ridiculous things in the username field and the password field to see if it works. Those ridiculous things unfortunately worked and I could access to the system using credentials that are completely by default that are being used by any system that should be changed immediately. No system should have those username and password. >> You were doing them a favor essentially and saying, hey, you got a security hole here. I just happened to be here. Here you go. Right? And so you're thinking you're gonna get a pat on the back and people are gonna say thank you and all this time passes and then here you are, they're pressuring you with questions, Interpol is correct? That's correct. And if we go back in 2016, I reported an issue, a very severe issue in the stock exchange of Asociación Paraguay. I report another security problem in the website of one of the top cybersecurity organizations in the world. And I also reported a big problem in a system of the multi-portal health, sorry, insurance company of Uruguay. - So let's move forward then to so that you, they're pressuring you with questions and then what happens from, so you said you sent some email, you didn't, you're not quite sure what's going on, you're kind of panicked, you're in a daze. So what happens after that? Okay, yeah, actually I said that and I didn't have a lawyer at that moment. I was assigned a lawyer provided by the state. That was really like having no lawyer. The woman that was assigned to me to represent me in my defense really was somebody who didn't understand anything about what was going on. It was really something traumatic from the start, the experience dealing with first the Interpol, then with the justice system. And meanwhile, my girlfriend was being held in Interpol and she was being told that I had confessed everything that I had admitted having committed the crime. But I had said that she was the person who was the mastermind behind all that, that it was her. was her idea, everything about the crime, that I had confessed that, that she was the person who thought and planned everything about that supposed hacking and extortion. What me in the court, I was being asked by the prosecutor a lot of questions that had nothing to do with the case in particular. So it was pretty something where I felt like, okay, no matter what I say, we are not talking in the same language. And the time went by very, very slow. It was another day. And the next day, again, I was interrogated. At that point, I realized that the judge had already decided something. So it didn't matter what my lawyer could do or say. I just was waiting. And then my lawyer came to me and he told me that I was going to be sent to prison. That was September 11, 2017. It was my September 11. So, it's September 11, I remember it because of that moment where I saw the world in front of me falling into pieces. And it was like, "Okay, I won't be able to survive this." And I was feeling like completely Like it was the end of my life. And well, I was taken into jail. I was given some food. It was late at night when I arrived at jail. I was in a cell alone. And well, it was probably a night where I couldn't sleep quite well because I was really tired after two nights without sleeping, without eating, and so much stress that I didn't know what was going to happen but I felt okay I can I can sleep in a bed because of the interval I was sleeping on the floor it was extremely cold I was with my asthma with my anxiety as I mentioned and well that's it five days in the in jail then I was taken to prison because when you talk to the people just in the cell with you you then realize that they knew who you were that's right I mean I was getting information from the world And then I realized that the magnitude of that event, I mean, in the media. And then I realized that the president resigned the day I was arrested. But it was me who had more pages on the newspapers, more time on the news on TV than the president resigning. And I think the president resigning is much more important and relevant than hacking the... - Let me just see, did anybody know that difference between all these like people who arrested you and the people who said oh you're the hacker between white hat hacking and black hat hacking ones ethical ones not or they they just thought it was all just the same thing it's all unethical and whatever name is a hacker is like the bad guy is that like their mindset Not only that, it's about all the things they found in my house that are tools that both good guys, bad guys, we all have the same gadgets with same equipment, the same books. Along with the press release that the police sent after my arrest, there was an audio file where the person in charge of computer crimes of Interpol was saying that Well, they say that this and this and this from my apartment. They couldn't imagine that somebody who's doing right things, a researcher, could have exactly the same things. For them, the only explanation, the only scenario was being in front of a cyber terrorist, which is very sad. And the fact is that they didn't know anything about my background. They didn't know anything about all my reports. I mean, people have a pattern in their lives and my pattern was very clear. I was always trying to help, I was always acting in a good way with ethics and the accusation about that thing was completely not aligned with that pattern in my behavior. And not only that, somebody who is willing to commit a crime like that doesn't report the problems in a system to then use the problem to hack that system. You just shut up and you just hack the system. It's worth pausing again to go over a couple of these key points. So what you're basically saying is there was kind of a rush to judgment and that you being arrested in New York way and when you were in prison that it was hard for you to get the lawyer to help you much, the judge, and then the way that you were questioned and what you had said, "Hey, I had sent some email." They just took that as a confession right there. That was the first thing that I paused on when I first heard about your story as well, because as you'll explain, there's enough evidence here, or lack of evidence, that should probably put you in the clear, but it just seemed that the judge didn't understand what they were ruling on. The lawyer couldn't help you as much as maybe people in the United States would think that a lawyer should, right? And your due process is different in that country. Is that accurate? That's completely accurate. As you've told this story, and we've heard so many heartbreaking takes on you telling this story, do you ever get less angry? Like, does it feel different as you're explaining things now versus when you started talking about it a couple years ago on Twitter? Has how you feel about it changed? Wow, great question, Asia. Absolutely. I mean, when I first started using Twitter to and start talking, posting things about my case, I was really angry, I was really upset, I was furious, I really felt like I really, I was full of, I was a person that was really angry at everything. This movie, that is a day of rage, a day of fury. Yeah, I felt like, okay, one thing after another, and okay I couldn't stand so much unfairness, so much things that were completely done in a way that made no sense. I mean they were concluding things based on parts that were completely not proving anything and all the things that I had to live for me really I was I was furious, I was angry, I was expressing myself in a way that I really felt that those feelings were really strong on me. But yes, after time those feelings were like vanishing slowly. Also, I am under treatment, I've been under treatment for like three and a half years for the consequences of prism which are post-traumatic stress disorder and depression. And I'm still recovering. It's been a long process and it's going to take much, much longer. I am aware of that, but I'm happy that I am being able to be under this treatment. Not many people can access to something like this. And for me, it's something that I couldn't probably recover from that trauma wasn't because of this. And yeah, right now I can tell you faster that I feel like really calm. I feel like all the things that happened to me weren't that... I see things from a different perspective and all the terrible things that at that moment for me they seemed they were. They weren't that bad. I don't perceive them as that bad and I only... see them as a learning experience, as a way of learning things in life that otherwise I would never have learned, seeing a world I would never have lived. And well, I just think about the change in my life that hasn't been negative, I can say, after these years. When after being released from prison, I could, if you ask me, I would say this experience really ruined my life. this experience really destroyed me. And right now I can tell you, no, it isn't destroying me. Actually, I think I'm stronger. If it wasn't because of you guys and all the community in Twitter, the support, the love, the understanding that you have always given me, probably this experience would have been different. But really, feeling so much love, so much support from you and so many people out there, gave me strength in order to overcome the difficult situation and I will try to get my life back. >> It's amazing you expressed that, Alberto. I remember one of the first Twitter spaces that I ran, you came into it and that's how we met. We started sharing jokes. We developed a nice friendship. and then you got into your story and everything like that. - You definitely have a community and a support that's really, really behind you. - Absolutely, and I wanted to just kind of bring his story to the front listeners as well. So to go back, Alberto, so you were in prison, you were in prison for what, it was eight months, and then you were released, and what we've been talking about in recent, just the last recent minutes is kind of like how you started to recover and one of the ways you recovered is through social media and how all of us in this room, Aasia, Ariel and myself found you out on Twitter, more specifically Twitter Spaces, which is the social audio engine of Twitter. And so, and this is really goes to the heart of your book, right? It's really telling the story of a man convicted of a crime that he didn't do in a space that is very misunderstood and that's in the cyber world and cybersecurity. But it's more than that, right? It's about this community. It's about your recovery and what you learned and what you're trying to do for others, right? And that's, I think that gets us to where we're at, where you're out of prison. And now you're writing your book, right? It's part of your healing process. But what else are you trying to accomplish when you put pen to paper there? Part of the healing process to interact with all of you guys, to be able to get that relief of and not keeping all the suffering, all the pain that I was having inside of me. Well, just being able to release that with my words and you guys listening to me and you guys understanding me. Yeah, that's probably one of the best therapies. And yes, it's wonderful, it's beautiful. It's me talking to people from different places of the world, you guys in the USA. I made friends from people from every continent, from some people from the United Kingdom, I mean, some people from Africa, different parts of Europe, New Zealand, and the support has always been the same. I have only received love, support, understanding, and not even a single person ever questioned anything about Me or attack me for anything. So that is wonderful. It's hard to understand also but I'm really blessed for that and Yeah, what I live I I have a scar that I said I will carry with me until I die the part of the healing process that I said as I was mentioning is time is All these things that I was mentioning and I just think about what happened, learning from that and trying to do whatever I can in order to help others, in order to, I don't know, to guide them, to try to prevent them from experiencing things like the things that I have to experience. And I feel that many people, so many people come to me in order to ask me for advice in different things related to entering into a career in cybersecurity or they have found a security problem in certain place. What do I do, Alberto? And that trust, wow, is priceless. It's really amazing, wonderful. And I tell you, the first thing that I realized how Twitter in particular was something that was going to change me completely was the first time somebody tweeted, Alberto, Your story is amazing, incredible, and inspiring." And when I read that, inspiring, I said, "Oh my God, I was able to inspire one person. Wow, maybe all this hell I had to live was worth it." - Alberto, like you said, you've been featured in so many different things. I mean, you're probably gonna be in textbooks, you know, in years to come talking about your case and the fallacies that the government took upon themselves to do when it comes to your case. But I think that you have some really interesting things coming up and I'd love for you to share with us. - Yeah, he's definitely, so he's gone through this terrible thing. He's come out of prison. He's trying to put the pieces back together in his life. He's still suffering from that years later. He writes the book, right? And he's trying to get the word out, not just about his what happened to him and saying there's an injustice here, people need to pay attention to this, but it's also him learning about himself and what he really values. And so to get it to the point now is that this has been going on for years and Alberto has not only had his book out for what is about a year and a half now, something like that year plus is that he's been on Darknet Diaries. He's been on various large YouTube streams, you know, with a million plus subscribers. We've had done a small bit with him on the radio. And so the word is reverberating. He was in, why don't you tell us, Alberto, about the conference you were in recently. And then what is the most recent news that you can share about your situation? Yeah, sure. And last November, I was selected to be in the most important security conference in Latin America. every year in Argentina. It's called the Coparti and I was selected to be one of the main speakers for that conference. Wow, you're like a celebrity at that point, right? People are recognizing you and this is freaking you out, right? Yeah, because okay, one thing is what happens every day on Twitter that we're talking about, I don't know, AI and how to, I don't know, how to go to Mars with I don't know, with a little mask, and somebody shows up and enters into the conversation and says, "Oh, you're Alberto! Oh, my God!" And they're excited and they want to talk to me. Yeah, that happens regularly. It's funny sometimes. And people know who I am on the internet. But then now I'm, after all the pandemic, being able to actually go outside and interact with people and this happening in real life that you are being in a place and people know you. It's like very weird and experience that I never thought it would happen to me because you know I am very shy and introvert. I know that you don't buy that, Bryce, but that's true. That's happening to me was like, wow, Alberto, you have to accept it. I won't say that I'm famous, but okay, Alberto, people know who you are. People know your stuff. Yeah. Yeah. And so that was happening, right? And then you went up and spoke. Wow. It was amazing. I mean, I, the feedback was completely wonderful. People loved my my presentation and at the end, well, they instantly contacted me from a journalist from the most important newspaper in Argentina that is called La Nación and they made an interview. And the next day they published an article about my presentation in that conference, which wow, it's like, I don't know, if we put it in terms of the United States, it would be like having your story being featured on the, I don't know, New York Times or something like that. No, that's amazing. And so you exit that conference and well received. Go ahead and say, so what's the most recent developments in the last week and how does that impact everything that you've been doing? Well, something really unexpected and incredible happened in the last days. Really, I'm still, it's hard for me to process the last days here. You know, when I started to express myself and yelling and telling the world about my story, what I wanted, I wanted to create a change in the system in my country. That's what I really wanted. And everybody told me that, No, I mean that's impossible. That's a waste of time that cannot be done and Somebody contacted me a few days ago from a law firm That person is part of a group of people that are doing a research and in four countries of South America regarding investigations about computer related crimes how they're performing and the flaws that they are in the processes. She told me, we are people from four countries, we are lawyers, we are prosecutors, we are judges, we are teachers of five degrees of the law school, and we have had a lot of interviews regarding this topic. And the one thing in common that all these interviews have had is that In all of them, your case was mentioned in some way or another. All of the actors of the justice system are completely aware of your case. In particular, this year, the structure that there was in Uruguay to investigate computer-related crimes that was operated by the Interpol, is going to be changed. It will no longer operate. They are going to create a brand new structure that is going to be based on professionals in cyber crime that are going to be getting some education from professionals in England. And the person in charge of all this project is the major, the principal prosecutor of Uruguay, the prosecutor in charge of everything in Uruguay, the number one, and he takes your case as the point of inflection that he visualizes the problems that that the system has and your case is the reason why this thing is going to change. Everything is going to change. The person in charge of the computer crime has been already removed from his position and everything is going to work in a different way. And it's all because of your case, Alberto, and all the things that you have been doing in the last year. in the prosecution, in the general prosecution office, they know your case like the worst nightmare that they ever experienced. And yeah, they're going to make all these changes because of your case. So imagine, guys, what that means to me. It's like, I cannot believe it. I mean, it's the most beautiful and gratifying thing that ever happened in my life. that I was able to, I mean, yeah, I had to pay a high price, but I was able to do this and I could change something that nobody thought it would be able, nobody could change. - Alberto, congratulations. - Thank you. - To everybody who's listening. - Congratulations. - Your stories do matter, every one of you out there. Like if you think you have a story that can change some kind of political system you think you are in an environment that has been unfair to you, just spread it, it matters. Thank you. - Yeah, I mean, you have to believe in yourself. You have to have the determination. If you really want something, to change something, don't listen to other people discouraging you, telling you you cannot do it. If you want to do it, you can do it. Just know you can and you will do it. Everybody has the same opportunity. I'm not a person who has special superpowers. I'm like anybody else. I'm just, you know, Ariel, what you say in Spanish, I'm just another guy from South America. Yeah, I mean, no, everybody can do it. Just having the determination and taking the action in order to make changes real is all it takes. And we cannot do it, yeah, it can take five years. It can take five years. a lot of your health, you can take a lot of your money, you can take a lot of everything from you. But the reward is the most beautiful thing that you can get as a person in the world. That means being able to actually say that what did you do in your life? What was the most important accomplishment you did in your life? I was able to do something that was being able to help others to not to suffer injustices and being treated in fair ways in this world, in this country. It's beautiful. I mean, that's what I want. - It's amazing. It's amazing. - That's true. I think that's the most important message right there is that you're helping people understand that they're not alone or that they don't have to by themselves suffer injustices. You know, you're a poster person of that. - And there's more to this story, right, Alberto? And not only did he, when he left prison, he calmly and not with rage, put pen to paper, wrote his story, got the word out about what was going on. Didn't start pointing fingers at people. He just wanted to spread the news because he thought it was a terrible injustice. And even though the odds were very, very slim, and as he told me the other day, it was just me, one man, and my cell phone. that he started at that point to put this story together and get the word out. And it took some years and a lot of effort by him, but he has now changed the system. His story has now changed the system in his country as it relates to how they prosecute and how they're going to judge these types of crimes. That is such low percentage and such amazing. And another point, right, Alberto, is that during this process, and you didn't mention it earlier, is that you suffered not just the loss of your freedom, you had lost your employment and other things and other valuable things. It was, there was money lost, there was other damages, right? And so why don't you talk about what they're trying to do to help you out that way? Well, all those damages are secondary based on this outcome. They're completely irrelevant to me, but yeah, I lost, I didn't lose actually, I was talking to a journalist, apart from this woman that called me and told me all I have mentioned regarding these changes that are happening this year. This woman gave my number to a journalist that is one of the few journalists in Uruguay that is specialized on covering news regarding issues that are involving laws and the legal system of Uruguay. And I was telling her my story and I was telling her the police had to return me everything they took from my apartment. All those things that were mentioned by the person from Interpol in that radio and that audio file that I mentioned when I said that they found an anonymous mask in my house. Well, they had to give me everything back because Nothing was found to be a tool or a product of any crime. There was no crime detected because there was no crime. And when I went to pick up the those issues, the most important thing for me was a wallet, a cryptocurrency wallet, where I had all my cryptocurrencies stored. It's a hardware device that has my cryptos, has the cryptos of my ex-girlfriend that she gave me in 2016, 2000 dollars. And with that I bought 2.1 Bitcoin for her. It has money that is from the life insurance of my father that passed away in December of 2015. OK, we're talking about more than 26, 27 Bitcoins, 25 Bitcoin cash, 1000 ethereum, I don't know, 1000 of lead coins, ripple. - The people don't know that what state, so that's hundreds of thousands of. - More than millions. - So you basically lost a million dollars because of this. - Yeah, exactly. - Right, so the state essentially stole the money. They'd have no idea what. Again, it's on track though. So what is happening now? So you have somebody working in your favor to try to get you some kind of restitution, right? Hopefully. Exactly, I mean, we are going to, with my lawyer, to put both, we are going to take civil actions against the, who was the director of Interpol when I was arrested, that made several, he talked for the media and mentioned things that were defamatory about myself, and well, he's liable to to civil actions and we are going to put charges for the people that were in the procedure of the Interpol when they executed the search warrant in my apartment for those cryptos that were stolen. Yeah, so this is so not only did you get a change that was your primary goal, but now there's something happening. You have some some legal chops coming in to help you try to figure out more what happened there and then maybe at least get some of that money back or something, correct? - Yeah, that is correct. - That is amazing. That's amazing. So, I mean, as you were telling me before, right, some time will need to unfold and things will need to happen before you find out what that looks like. You know, it could get bogged down for months or a year or more in the system, but something is happening. You're on your path to a better place of healing and you made a change in the system that's going to be permanent. And that's exactly what you wanted to do. Really through, you know, you were protesting, but you did it in the right way and you were patient. And like Ariel and Aasi were saying, it's so encouraging to say, yeah, one man can make a difference, right? And that's what you're feeling. So you're riding high now, right? This is where you're at. Absolutely, but I have to tell you something else. All during this process, you wouldn't believe how many times I was approached by different friends or people that knew me that were asking me, "Aguirre, why don't you use your knowledge in order to destroy these people? I mean, why don't you have the help?" And I was like, "No, no way. I'm not going to become the-- I mean, these people, are people without any ethics, are people without any integrity. If I do that, I would be becoming the same people that they are. I know I'm going to do this, but following the rules, I'm not going to do the same thing that they do. I will play by the rules. I won't become them. And that's how I did it. I mean, it was fair play. I didn't-- I mean, many people believed that my knowledge, my skills, when it comes to certain things, I could use in order to get revenge or whatever you want, however you want to call it. But no, doing that would only make me be the people that I really are. They were doing the things that they did with me and I don't want to be them. I want to give an example of how to, somebody can act correctly and still win and get what that person deserves in the right way. You don't have to break the rules or to do something illegal to win this kind of things. That is, it's great that this happened just at this point so you could share it basically with the world almost real time. And so I think I want us to get to close it out here pretty quickly because we're getting short on time. But I wanted to give you a chance to, we'll ask Gazi and Ariel if they have anything more. at the end, but right now it's to say, so you do have your book and we wanted to make sure that you got out recent information about that, some changes you had, and if people really want to read this story from front to back, and there's a lot of details that we could, again, we could spend hours and hours talking to you and you're gonna get it in that book. I guess my first question is, is this update going to be added in whether or not that is? what is your, you have a new edition of the book you're gonna release. Tell us about that. - Yeah, I have a new, exactly. I'm working on a new edition of the book, but according to what happened in the last day, I have to restructure everything because I wasn't expecting this news. So yeah, I mean, the thing that happened in the past, in the last day, really should be the core of the book. I mean, that message of, change that message of being able to do the impossible, that message of everybody can do it, that message of yeah, determination can change the world and how things like social media, I don't know what my life would have been without the interaction that I have had with you guys in the last years and with the rest of the world. the opportunities that were open to me because of this, because I was a person who didn't use social media before getting arrested. I mean, when I started to use Twitter, I didn't know how to tweet. If I Google my name, I would get no hits. I was like, "Okay, this is amazing." And then you put my name on Google, and yeah, you go to images and you get more images than the images that I have of myself with me. So yeah, I mean, if it wasn't because of social media, I don't know. I don't think I could have done so much noise, so much pressure in order to get this outcome. I don't think so. So many opportunities to talk about this in so many different places and media. For example, being here talking with you guys on the radio, that reaches how many? 17 million people potentially, right? Oh yeah. That being said, just to make mention real quick, you're listening to WPKN Bridgeport 89.5 and we're talking with Albro Hill, who has been sharing his story with the author of "Log Into Hell" and the falsely accused humanist and continues to tell us his story. Yeah, but we of course in this final edition of the book you guys are going to have a chapter where you are part of the story you're part of this change you are part of this I Think it was so like serendipitous that that old interview kind of who knows what happened to it but like this one that really like kind of put a neat little bow on the end of all of this that like there was some kind of resolution and it wasn't it it wasn't just like a story just out in the ether like like the best kind of stories and I said this before the stories that that have you feeling some kind of hope that something is happening and it's not like oh and all these terrible things happened and yeah that's about it all the terrible things happen it's like then people feel like a little a little but it's like, "Oh, you do like this." -No, you know, in the first edition of the book, at the final, I said, "This is not a fairy tale. This is real life. This is -- This doesn't have a happy ending." Yeah, I was expressing that negativity that you're saying, but now -- now, no. Now this is a fairy tale. Yeah, now beautiful things happen in life. Yeah. So it's amazing how things changes, how -- The way you perceive things, the way time changes everything, the way certain actions give results and make it all change. It's amazing how life is and all the things that are part of the life of a person when they are connected and all the planets are aligned. Yeah, magic happens and it's beautiful. That's great. >> And so you're saying you're re-releasing your book here, you're gonna make some changes based on the new information, but that'll be coming out soon, and it'll be a special format, right? You're big into the NFT scene, there'll be a lot of people out there who are familiar with it, maybe some that aren't, but it's just basically, it's a special edition of your book that's digitally signed, and that's kind of your goal, right? - Mr. - No, yeah, I mean it will be first released only as NFT. I mean, you can, if you want to have access to it before everybody else, you have only the only option is to get it as NFT. And with the NFT, you get a printed paper, a printed book with the story that has your name on the credits delivered to your house anywhere that am Amazon delivers anything, you get the book that has your name printed on it. Yeah. That's great. And that's, that's be something that we'll be looking forward to. I have to say that this is not financial advice, but okay. NFTs might be a wild world. Be careful. This is just a way of actually selling something paying with cryptos more than getting into a project regarding to NFTs. So yeah, big be careful. Yeah, interesting. So I think, yeah, so I think we this has been a great conversation. I talked for a while again we could keep going on and on, but go ahead and get that book that's still out there now, at least the edition that currently exists. Log into hell or if you want to wait a little bit longer you can get the newest edition with these recent updates, most of which he's covered here, but it's an amazing story and knowing Alberto for the last year or so, I know for me personally, this is, I was so excited and then smiled so big. - Follow Alberto on Twitter before we forgot at @a_danielhill on Twitter. - Yes, yeah, that's where we found Alberto. And so this is personal for us. This is more than just a regular interview. And yeah, so anything anybody else has to say about it too. I mean, I just feel so good about it. Ariel or I'll see if you have anything to add. I just want to say again, Alberto, it's been really fulfilling to watch your progress and your growth and the way that you continue to tell your story and how you went from being upset to really just being a beacon of, it sounds kind of generic, but hopefulness. And you really, I'm sure, have inspired so, so many more people than you're aware of. And it's just a beautiful thing to watch. And we're glad to know you. We really are. So thank you. No, thank you guys. I'm really glad to have met you. I mean, Aria, you were probably one of the first people that I met with the spaces. Then, Bryce. I met you because you were hanging around in different places where Aria was also known. I think the first time we interacted was we had the Zoom call with Shazam and Paul and Carl. But you mentioned, "Oh, you're Alberto from Space." And I was thinking, "How does she know?" I remember. the first space I heard you on and you weren't talking in that space. And I didn't know like your habits and you know how you were. And I think I somehow got a mic and I was trying to say hello and like I didn't get a response. And I was like, oh, this guy doesn't like me. Like what the heck, he doesn't like me. And then we just grew into such a beautiful, awesome friendship. And I was like, oh my God, I'm so glad I met this guy. Like, you know. You know, it was so funny, this conversation seems so serious, but all the time that we're talking amongst each other, I have the most fun with Alberto. There are so many little mistakes and so many things. The things that happened, like, rubber ducky, anyway, that's an inside joke, and it went on for an hour. I, oh man, Alberto could also be a-- - (indistinct) Mr. Roberts. Mr. Roberts. And once you realize all these kind of medium things that you want, you know, all of a sudden, you know, you're a little bit closer to the big things that really were just a dream a couple years ago, and we can get them. We'll get them. That's great. I know it will happen. I love all of you. I'm very happy to have you. I think, yeah, and I think, His story makes me believe anything's possible. It was so low percentage and he was just a voice in the wind. With any luck, maybe he'd sell good enough copies of his books that maybe he could parlay that into some job opportunities or things like that. That's what I always thought. But did I think that he was going to change the system in this country the way that they prosecute and try cases in this field? Absolutely not. That's not because I didn't have confidence in Alberto. That's what the law of average is saying. It just doesn't work very often, but that shows you what persistence and a good story. He had real reasons to be upset. Good people do get accused of the wrong things and it's okay to stand up for yourself and keep shouting. Keep making yourself present and known. Eventually somebody will hear you. - And Alberto is so much bigger than that now. That's the other important part of this whole conversation is Alberto is so much bigger than what happened to him and what he was accused of. He's so much bigger than his past and it's going to continue to grow and be something that we're not even aware of yet. Yeah, not only Alberta, are you known in the celebrity world? Well, I have to tell you something. My life has changed. I mean, there's a person that And there is a storm and the person that enters the storm is not the same person that leaves the storm. I'm a different person. I can tell you that really, I believe that this was something that was changed my life. Again, the price I had to pay was very high, the scars I will carry forever, but it was completely worth it. Yeah, what can I say? I felt like I had to do something and I was able to do it and it's not like something that is completely irrelevant. We're talking about something that is huge and it's again, it's not about me, it's about others and being able to do this for others is It's amazing. I mean, there's nothing for me. That's it. I mean, I completely changed the way I see life. And only after these kind of experiences. You mentioned this frequently, Bryce, when it comes to people and changes, how to evolve, that the correct way to not evolve is to adapt to what I think is evolving. despite what Dr. Masay, I'm sorry if the doctor is listening. Now, in order to adapt and know, in order to evolve, we have to go through these things, overcome these situations that seem impossible to actually overcome. And that's the way we grow and society grows and things get improved. And I have hope that the future will be not tomorrow, not this year, but for future generations. I hope that things will be better and they will be living in a much better world than the world we're living in today. - Alberto Hill and his... - Love you, thank you. - Yeah, I love you man. - Thank you, Alberto. - Amazing story and I think, yeah, I think this is gonna be so inspiring to so many people. So thanks again, Alberto. - No, thank you guys. - Wow, that was an amazing interview. Ariel, what did you think? - Yeah, it's an incredibly interesting story and since we've known him personally through this entire ordeal, it's very compelling. Absolutely. The parts of Alberto's story are yet to be told, but this really proves one man can change the system with some courage and a lot of patience. And one last time, you can reach Alberto on Twitter at @a_danihel. That's @a_danihel. And his book is "Log Into Hell," available on Amazon and all other book outlets.