Archer_Private_Convo

9:21 AM] Cpt Patrick Archer: So I'm following up in private convo with execs in VG on the HADES decision. Because I feel like garst didn't make it clear what the reasoning was, which might be harder to understand especially for the newer groups in VG.
The reason HADES was asked to leave, is a decision based on the preformance from the alliance as a whole. It's not against marrow or catweezle, who both in their own way did more than most people in this game. They tried to get their guys motivated, coordinate stuff and FC fleets. But whenever they weren't here, whatever remained didn't join fleets, didn't actively participate and mostly just complained about how TRI is coming to take their stuff away. Marrow has had countless talks with her members when they're convinced we're not doing them justice.

We've been through this same process of ups and downs with hades a 3 times now in the last 2 years. Where leadership leaves the alliance and marrow is left alone, trying to keep shit together which pushes her almost into a burnout or meltdown. It's become pretty clear that their members aren't looking to contribute by themselves, only when pushed by corp leadership, which in turn has to be pushed by alliance leadership.

HADES can make the decision tonight to get rid of all these freeriders and carry on as one corp, trying to find a new place within VG. And they wouldn't lose any effectiveness combat wise, they would just get rid of 90% of the drama. But that's their call to make.
So tl;dr it's nothing personal, but their prerformance as a whole wasn't what we're looking for, in an alliance that has been given 2 years to grow and fix internal issues under our wings.
[6:58 AM] Cpt Patrick Archer: Damn son, cya on grid.
[6:59 AM] Cpt Patrick Archer: I didn't force you to do shit man, always free to leave.
[7:05 AM] [.M.] Piotr Engels: i keep going to go to sleep and then someone else messages me. not being rude, i'll get back to you later.
[12:56 PM] [.M.] Piotr Engels: ok so first of all, if you are referring perhaps to https://zkillboard.com/kill/63498160/
zkillboard.com
Wyvern | Sariour Kring | Killmail
Sariour Kring (League of Gentlemen) lost their Wyvern in 5DE-QS (Wicked Creek). Final Blow by Wicked Checker (AMC.) flying in a Revelation. Total Value: 26,680,055,203.87 ISK
[12:57 PM] [.M.] Piotr Engels: this happened like an hour before hand https://zkillboard.com/kill/63497341/
zkillboard.com
Naglfar | Schlerin Slapahoe | Killmail
Schlerin Slapahoe (Reckless-Endangerment) lost their Naglfar in 5DE-QS (Wicked Creek). Final Blow by Shinji Ikari ThirdChild (Zentarim) flying in a Erebus. Total Value: 2,845,962,598.74 ISK
[12:57 PM] [.M.] Piotr Engels: so idk if they want to warp supers literally to 0 in a bubble with obvious bait, i hardly think anyone can be blamed but them lol
[12:58 PM] [.M.] Piotr Engels: also, we might have been able to leave, but that does not mean there might not be consequences. proper planning prevents piss poor performance, as they say.

12:52 PM] [.M.] Piotr Engels: can i have you on the record, confirming that we were threatened to join vanguard or get invaded so I post it to Pat and tell him to stop lying?
[12:54 PM] Marrowbone: yes, pat threatened you into joining vanguard he said it several times
[12:55 PM] Marrowbone: he wont stop lying though its what he does
[1:03 PM] [.M.] Piotr Engels: i may have my issues with you dude, and maybe some of how vanguard does its thing, but vanguard was also a great help in us getting out here. my beef is very recent. when u dump 100 toons, several tits/supers on pest, what u think i think u might do? it is not unreasonable to be prepared to defend myself when i have already been threatened.(edited)
[9:02 AM] Cpt Patrick Archer: well idc about some caps or supers from idiots dieing v0v.
[9:03 AM] Cpt Patrick Archer: and you are INSANE to think we would attack a coalition member, that's so incredibly retarded. I lol'd so hard when you brought that up with garst.
[9:04 AM] Cpt Patrick Archer: When I poked you guys initially I said we wanted to expand into WC and we had recently picked up TBC who've been friends with you.
[9:04 AM] Cpt Patrick Archer: They said, poke manifesto cause they may be down.
[9:05 AM] Cpt Patrick Archer: So I did. I was up front in saying we were looking to expand. It might have sounded like I was making you join at gunpoint, but that was never the intention. You've been living close to us and we've been helping you for years now.
[9:05 AM] Cpt Patrick Archer: And the PEST thing is so incredibly fucking retarded, I don't even know where to start.
[9:05 AM] Cpt Patrick Archer: PEST are RENTERS who declared WAR on us and refused to give back our own fucking sov.
[9:06 AM] Cpt Patrick Archer: In what world do we not curbstomp them?
[9:06 AM] Cpt Patrick Archer: You guys were starting to pick up numbers again in fleet after a rough hit when sean left. I even said I was happy to see that a few weeks ago. So there was absolutely no reason to doubt me or vg.
[9:07 AM] Cpt Patrick Archer: What you're doing is throwing yourself under the bus for no reason, making a defense pact with some nobodies that used to troll our sov is the worst possible thing you could have done to yourself.
[9:08 AM] Cpt Patrick Archer: You can pin it all on me, idc about that. But the truth is, we asked if you guys were cool many times. And you always said "yeah we're good, np whatsoever".
[9:08 AM] Cpt Patrick Archer: But yeah, now that it's all done, you are right to find some friends.
[9:08 AM] Cpt Patrick Archer: Since TRI alone is stronger and actually has FCs, compared to all of you traitors.
[9:11 AM] Cpt Patrick Archer: And btw, your betrayl started before we shit on PEST. So you can make up excuses, but really you're just treacherous idiot.
[3:07 PM] [.M.] Piotr Engels: m8, shred, tbc, marrow all agree that the offer was join or die. in any case, that is the basis we made our decision on. we made an exit strategy.

i realize obviously that pest were paying you guys, etc... i wrote in that mail that vlad was a shit talking idiot, whether bahnd or anyone else feels bad for them or not isn't relevant. as i said in my mail, we felt it might be an indicator of a response we might face - it didnt trigger shit, it just compounded our concerns.

we have always intended to be independent. aside from some people being butthurt, i don't see any throwing ourselves under the bus here.

just because catweezle got some snips of a chat, doesn't at all mean that he has the full picture - not even IA has the full picture.

and yeah, no shit we said we were fine - our plan was to stay in vanguard till the end of the year. in addition to that, its not like you tell the person whom put you at gunpoint - "yeah if we could stop being hostages now, that would be great"
[3:08 PM] [.M.] Piotr Engels: -- i will tell you that now that we are independent and actually have some non-blues within less than 15 jumps, activity is up big time.
[3:10 PM] Cpt Patrick Archer: If you made the wrong decisions in the past and want to go back on them, that's fine. But betraying trust is something you don't recover from very easily in this game.
[3:14 PM] [.M.] Piotr Engels: if tri wants to not trust us, not like us, etc... feel betrayed because we felt we would struggle in a potential defensive war against vanguard and thus we started lining up batphones - thats fine by me.
[3:14 PM] Cpt Patrick Archer: You are insane to think we would attack a coal member
[3:14 PM] Cpt Patrick Archer: Coalition*
[3:14 PM] Cpt Patrick Archer: Completely on another level
[3:14 PM] [.M.] Piotr Engels: if we weren't in the coalition anymore your statement completely falls aparet
[3:15 PM] [.M.] Piotr Engels: we were planning on leaving dude
[3:15 PM] Cpt Patrick Archer: The way you played it out tho, was leaving with then intend to backstab.
[3:16 PM] [.M.] Piotr Engels: in which way? because i dealt with IA?
[3:17 PM] [.M.] Piotr Engels: because i gave pest some advice on stopping being retarded?
[3:17 PM] Cpt Patrick Archer: You making plans to betray at the same time as we would start a new war.
[3:17 PM] Cpt Patrick Archer: If you wanted to leave, you could hit us up and say "yo, we wanne leave. We ain't happy"
[3:17 PM] Cpt Patrick Archer: Not smily at meetings and say all good
[3:17 PM] [.M.] Piotr Engels: dude, as far as we were concerned we were at gunpoint
[3:17 PM] Cpt Patrick Archer: While talking about backstabbing with other ppl
[3:18 PM] [.M.] Piotr Engels: so the best possible scenario for us to exit was when you were busy with something else
[3:18 PM] Cpt Patrick Archer: Well, I'm sure our more loyal allies will appreciate the sov.
[3:19 PM] Cpt Patrick Archer: Let's hope your wh team is a good one.
[3:19 PM] [.M.] Piotr Engels: so i take it then that you do intend on attacking us and garsts word is worthless?
[3:20 PM] Cpt Patrick Archer: He made that call when I was out drinking. I 100% disagree with it. But I will honour it for now. But give me the smallest reason...
[3:22 PM] [.M.] Piotr Engels: we wanted our independence and our roaming content back - i seriously doubt unless u get butthurt about some blops drop or SNOVA decides a sabre fucking around their space is cloaky camping again we will have any problems
[3:24 PM] [.M.] Piotr Engels: but we're ready. a war with you isn't something we want, but it is something we have made preparations for.
[3:24 PM] [.M.] Piotr Engels: so lets all just be little fonzies, and we'll all be happy with the content.
[3:24 PM] Cpt Patrick Archer: Time will tell
[3:26 PM] [.M.] Piotr Engels: also, same as i offered to wombo if any of ur dudes have shit they need to get out of our space i have np giving temp docking access for evac instead of aids asset safety
[3:27 PM] Cpt Patrick Archer: Idc about that. You can go through the trouble of getting Hades or tbc to do it.
[3:27 PM] Cpt Patrick Archer: Or you can rent a system from us for standings. I'll make a good deal.
[3:27 PM] [.M.] Piotr Engels: LOL
[3:28 PM] [.M.] Piotr Engels: aight dude, well my discord is blowing up so Imma deal with that - hit me up if u need anything. I'm chill, you can be chill too.
[3:28 PM] [.M.] Piotr Engels: o7