DS and Proud

3:06
DragonSage1331
that sounds good!
okay, so your work is very very good. i like the inclusion of scottish titles and ranks, far too many fantasy works go straight to mainland Europe for medieval literature
3:07
Proud-Dust
Oh dang, I didn't think anyone would catch that. :o
3:08
DragonSage1331
and your action scenes are extremely well-written. I flinched when Red Coarse Crab threatened to bite out loffit's throat, which i initially didn't get but then i remembered that four-legged creatures usually go for bite attacks when killing, stands to reason that dragons would do the same thing.
and where did you get the names? i see celtic and scottish influence, with maybe a little norse thrown in
and the icewing way of murder reminded me a lot of the blood eagle vikings used for particularly heinous criminals
anyway, it's very good. i like writing that makes me think, and this is definitely it.
3:10
Proud-Dust
Old Norse! Either that or Icelandic or Norwegian Nynorsk.
Name-wise.
What did you think of the ending with Kettrin's nod?
For that matter, what did you think of the characters? :D
3:11
DragonSage1331
hang on a sec, i gotta go pee
will answer momentarily
3:11
Proud-Dust
Take your time.
3:14
DragonSage1331
okay, back!
3:15
Proud-Dust
wb, DS. :D
3:15
DragonSage1331
loffit is exactly the sort of asshole that i would love to punch but is in too high of a position to do so
3:16
Proud-Dust
Proud-Dust
HE IS.
And the irony is is that he's not even that high on the totem pole of society.
Not compared to the more landless bloodline nobles there.
3:18
DragonSage1331
Ylgrin is competent and brutal when necessary, and i love the fact that she is trans and that is worth no more than a mention. some writers make a huge deal out of having a trans character, like they should be awarded a medal or something just for putting one in. It's a refreshing change to see a not-cis character that is developed further than "lol they're not cis". Fantastic work. I love reading things that would make a bigot's head explode.
I also like how you list out her choices and why they won't work. she's clearly skilled, and that listing shows why Loffit's claim of her unworthiness is bull. she doesn't even have to tell him that she's worthy, her actions speak for her.
3:21
Proud-Dust
Yup! It gets more mention earlier when Ylgrin wants to fully transition and feels like, as leader, she should be allowed to be the dragon she wants to be. But, at the same time, she wants to return home and fulfill the promises her former father made to their gang, and you don't get to get to return home without strength and an army. And you don't get the army without respect. And mockery is the death of respect.
3:21
DragonSage1331
beautifully put
3:22
Proud-Dust
And it doesn't help that, if you read between the lines, Ylgrin didn't want to kill Loffit.
At the very least, she'd much rather he gets his crap together and do his job.
3:22
DragonSage1331
yeah. it's harder to get rid of someone you hate but also know you need than someone you just hate.
3:22
Proud-Dust
But, he made the choices he did, and Ylgrin's claw was forced.
3:22
DragonSage1331
that he did
brb, gotta save something before the page dies out
3:23
Proud-Dust
WAIT.
Copy it first!
Just in case it doesn't save properly!
3:24
DragonSage1331
done and done. thanks for the tip!
3:25
Proud-Dust
There's actually more on Ylgrin on the admin nomination thread, but there's actually a lot of work into Ylgrin as a villainous/heroic figure.
Because she is *so* draped in villain tropes.
3:26
DragonSage1331
i can see how you put a lot of work into her character. i would read a novel series and a movie about her, she is way better than whatever straight white male film hollywood can come up with
3:27
Proud-Dust
Which is amusing, because originally, she was just "Typical Pyrrhian Warlord Post-Darkstalker."
x'D
3:27
DragonSage1331
all the best characters start out small
3:27
Proud-Dust
True dat!
3:27
DragonSage1331
asuga was just "random tempestwing with authority issues"
now they've got a backstory and a personality and they're my favorite
3:28
Proud-Dust
Cheers to that!
3:28
DragonSage1331
things happen
3:28
Proud-Dust
Creation is funny that way.
You build on top of stacks on top of stacks...
And soon, you end up with a mountain of a personality.
3:29
DragonSage1331
that's what i like about it. one idea can turn into a whole story.
now i'm reading through ylgrin's backstory and you clearly merged viking culture and icewing circles in a way that i really like.
they've both got some inklings of the strongest wins but there are ways to do things.
also I LOVE her quotes
i want them framed and hung on my wall
3:31
Proud-Dust
My conception of the IceWings is that they're very Nordic turned more bureaucratic (but in a very warrior-culture sense), but deep down, they're still terrible people who try to commit infantide out of a "strongest survive" hypocrisy.
3:31
DragonSage1331
that is a very good conception. also ylgrin needs a hug.
3:32
Proud-Dust
Though, Phoony and Morrows posited Russia as an inspiration to the current IceWing society, which I can't complain about.
3:33
DragonSage1331
that's painfully accurate
also i have an idea
3:33
Proud-Dust
They're Russia on the surface, very prim and austere and proper, but deep down, they're violent warriors who smash down on dissent hard.
3:33
DragonSage1331
yep
3:33
Proud-Dust
Shoot! :D
3:35
DragonSage1331
i was thinking about making an IceWing assassin hired by the courts because hey Ylgrin could fuck up their power (which they have no business having because they're corrupt as hell) but then she can't assassinate Ylgrin because she actually agrees with what they're doing. so she's in the not-enviable spot of pretending to be a warrior of Ylgrin's tribe, if Ylgrin finds out she's working for the courts she'll be killed, and if the courts find out she's defected she'll be killed.
3:36
Proud-Dust
.....................................................
Um.
DS?
I actually already have that. xD
3:36
DragonSage1331
yeah?
3:36
Proud-Dust
Actually, *two* of them.
3:36
DragonSage1331
wait oops
great minds think alike i guess
tell me more?
3:37
Proud-Dust
Snrrrk. I know, right?
You want me to just copy-paste the entire concept?
3:37
DragonSage1331
absolutely
3:37
Proud-Dust
Or just give a brief summary?
3:37
DragonSage1331
entire concept. i adore your writing and thought processes both.
3:37
Proud-Dust
Okay! Give me a few minutes!
Also, are you fine with swears?
Because I'll have to edit out them in the original chatlogs.
3:38
DragonSage1331
i swear a lot, i'm totally fine with it.
3:41
Proud-Dust
https://pastebin.com/LgmM3YMb
3:43
DragonSage1331
that is so amazing
i totally want to read this story
3:44
Proud-Dust
The crucial thing to why they picked Issegrim to spy on Ylgrin?
She's a bastard.
Some noble's illegitimate get.
So they figured intelligence for a higher Circle ranking would be a fair trade.
3:45
DragonSage1331
that's extremely bastardous, but also a pretty good method.
3:45
Proud-Dust
And Issegrim shrugged because what other choice does she have? She's illegitimate in a society that treats her in deep contempt.
And never considered there was a better way, because it's not like anyone's treated her better.
Until she met Ylgrin.
3:46
DragonSage1331
you keep making characters that have me like "omg i want to hug them" but then i'm like "wait no they murdered people"
it's a fantastic dichotomy.
3:46
Proud-Dust
And, as much as Ylgrin is the Destroyer of the story, she's also someone who keeps trying to repair and heal the wounds of her society and culture, one kind gesture at a time.
3:47
DragonSage1331
i love that contradiction.
3:47
Proud-Dust
No one expects it. They just expect duty and loyalty and austerity.
And classism.
3:47
DragonSage1331
yep. loyalty's great until they ask you to do horrible things in the name of that loyalty.
3:48
Proud-Dust
And that's the crushing dichotomy behind Ylgrin: is she a savior of her home culture or the destroyer of many villages, the breaker of homes?
Or is there even a contradiction?
As if you can save a broken kingdom without ripping out from the roots.
3:49
DragonSage1331
my god thinking about ylgrin will keep me awake at night. this is odyssey levels of theme and conflict.
3:50
Proud-Dust
And, at the same time, is Ylgrin a "good" person if she's personally nice to her members and gang... but she never reckons with the moral implications of her village raids?
Do you get to escape the consequences of your actions, even if they were meant for a better cause?
3:51
DragonSage1331
one assumes she would do that after everything's over, but will it really be over? there's always someone who isn't satisfied.
3:52
Proud-Dust
And Ylgrin is a decent enough person that she feels guilty eventually, after working out her Ice Kingdom Doctrine of anti-every-non-IceWings... but there's also the consideration of who has the right to punish her?
Ice Kingdom can't really do it.
And she's hit enough kingdoms that one kingdom's laws cannot cover the breadth of what she's committed.
3:52
DragonSage1331
i would say those she attacked, but then again there's probably a conflict of interest there
3:53
Proud-Dust
Can you be just and good if you don't hold yourself accountable? If you don't try to atone for your mistakes?
And Ylgrin stays up nights, thinking about that during the later months of her campaign.
3:53
DragonSage1331
pardon my french, but this is fucking fantastic.
3:54
Proud-Dust
She can't back down for her dragons' sakes... but what about personal redemption?
And that's for the other POVs in her shared story to figure out.
3:54
DragonSage1331
let me know when the story is up and running. i'll be the first one to read it.
3:54
Proud-Dust
Whether Pyrrhia can and *needs* to try out restorative justice rather than strictly punitive justice.
And how much the latter's drowned the continent in blood already.

WILL DO.
I'm also thinking of positing up another drabble about one of the main POVs of that story.
You've already seen another, Icefyre. xD
3:55
DragonSage1331
i'm also looking at atreus and odara and oh my god. i want to hug all of your ocs.
and yes i totally want to see another drabble