<OOC> Vesta says, "Sorry about that"
Long distance to Furio: Vesta wouldn't have been late. I was asleep. So sorry
Furio pages: I overslept too. IT's okay. WE're just getting started.
Long distance to Furio: Vesta nodsnods. Did I miss anything at all important?
Furio pages: Just opening exposition. Hang on a sec.
Long distance to Furio: Vesta nodsnods
Furio pages: https://pastebin.com/wmSJYrT5
Long distance to Furio: Vesta nodnods
Nicolette pauses with her soda halfway to her lips, then nods silently. Yep. She knows. She knows all too well. She takes her sip and glances around the room.
Vesta is running a little late. That happens when you have a baby and ESPECIALLY if you are forced to not be WITH your baby. That also takes a lot of prep. And so she enters quietly and takes a seat, smoothing her jeans down along her legs and pulling her hair over her shoulder so she doesn't sit on it
Katerina listens to Furio's story, a look of sympathy on her face. She nods in turn. There was a reason she went from living with her Ahroun father to marrying a Ragabash.
Zeppelin doesn't react, but to be fair she's heard the story a few times now. She is watching the people in the room though.
[Garou] Connor waves
Bliss comes in from Kinfolk House - Front Yard and Porch
Bliss has arrived.
Halle appears to have sympathy for Furio in her eyes.

         Sirius nods in response to Furio's answer, taking it as a metric by which to estimate mentally the sort of response in Garou. He is silent during the story and a little while after, as well, though Vesta's arrival is greeted with a small smile. "There is an interesting human concept about which I have been learning," he begins, calm and curious in the cloud of peace and tranquility that follows him everywhere. "And the similarity strikes me as potentially meaningful here as well." It's a polite preface. "But even when they are subject to chemicals which eliminate or severely diminish their ability to make informed choices about their own actions - the way Rage does to the Changing Breeds - their legal system still holds them responsible for those actions. In essence, there may have been no intent to harm, but harm was still done. So the consequences, while less severe than they would have been if there had been malicious intent, still fall on the one who took the action that resulted in harm." He pauses then, allowing the concept to settle and a chance to sip at his water. "No one would consider it just to physically harm someone who chose to drive at night, not even with the justification of teaching them not to drive at night lest they be hit by a drunk driver. Why is it that this scenario is so different? I am afraid I do not understand."
Bliss slips in from the front, quietly shutting the door behind her. Hands in the pockets of her hoodie, she steps to the side to listen for now.
<OOC> Zeppelin says, "Bliss.. I'm now singing Alanis. Thank you. "I've got a hand in my pocket...."
<OOC> Bliss grins.
Bliss has voted for you.
Bliss has voted for you.
Nicolette has voted for you.
Nicolette has voted for you.
Katerina has voted for you.
Katerina has voted for you.
Sebastien has voted for you.
Sebastien has voted for you.
Isolde has voted for you.
Isolde has voted for you.
Furio regards Sirius as he poses his question. "Because learnin' to drive at night is somethin' you'd expect from someone meanin' to operate a motor vehicle," he says. "However, showin' blatant disrespect to one of our warriors... or worse, one of our -Elders-... that's a whole different matter." He looks back to the rest of the group. "It's frightening," he says. "Even for someone like me. With all my power. If I ain't got my tech on me, or if I ain't got enough time to get Code runnin'... I'm screwed. We's -all- screwed." He drains his bottle and sets it in the recycling hamper. "Now... I know a lotta you's are upset with the way Jake reacted. An' I'll agree, he coulda worded things more diplomatically. But speakin' from the heart here, he's one o' my best friends in this Sept. I've seen him in battle. He's always fought to keep this place safe for us all." He shakes his head. "I may be old-fashioned. But when I was a kid, an' I acted outta turn, I got a belt to my ass." He lifts a hand. "Now I know, you folks ain't kids. I know that. But Endurin' Spirit is notable for bein' one of the most liberal septs in the Nation. We have -unprecedented- freedom an' access to our warriors. We's damn near given equal treatment. I've even earned Renown from the Elders here, even bein' Kinmagi. Hell, the fact that I -am- Kinmagi, an' I'm still allowed to visit the caern... that -any- of us are allowed to visit the caern... that's unheard of." He regards the group earnestly. "Jake ain't lookin' to go around beatin' the shit outta Kin who've had a bad day an' tell a Garou to go fuck 'emselves. But what he -does- intend to do is ensure that our Elders are given their proper respect. An' when they don't get it, there's to be consequences for that. I don't find that unreasonable at all." He looks back to Zeppelin. "I know that there's arguments to be made. It ain't Jake's place to be dispensin' judgement. He's an Ahroun, not a Philodox. I get that. But. I believe that policing our own, that makin' sure we's all on the look-out for bad behavior that could result in serious tragedy... that's -everyone's- responsibility."
<OOC> Vesta needs to step out for a few. Goddamit. I had an answer to that, too
Zeppelin watches as people talk and then listens to the words spoken. When Furio looks at her, she meets his eyes and then her hand raises up as if she has a statement to make or a question to pose.
Katerina's brows furrow in confusion as Furio continues to speak. "I think there'd been a disconnect about what people- at least most of the people in my social sphere are upset abo-" She cuts herself off when she sees Zeppelin raise her hand. "Sorry." She offers to the kin. "Didn't mean to speak out of turn," Her eyes flick momentarily to the blue dot on the wall.
<OOC> Halle sighs and has things to contribute on it too. But no way going to be able to speak well typing on phone.
Nicolette tilts her head as she regards Furio with considerable interest. She's gone from being not quite sure what all this is about to being intensely interested in the space of just a few seconds. She glances curiously around the room at the kin present, watching their reactions.
<OOC> Furio says, "Sorry Halle. :("

         Sirius considers that for a moment, head tilting to one side and then the other. There are very obviously some elements that still aren't adding up for the Sea-born in the corner, but since there are others who wish to speak, he is perfectly willing to be patient. Either his questions will be addressed by others or they can be brought up in a little while.
Furio nods to Katerina. "'s okay," he says. "We ain't gonna be silencing any voices here. Everyone's gonna have a chance to speak." He looks over to Zeppelin. "What've you got, Zep?" he asks.
<OOC> Zeppelin says, "Spam in coming... sorry."
Zeppelin clears her throat for a moment as she remains sitting and her voice is calm. She does sort of look around the room to read the faces of those here. A breath is taken in and slowly released.

"Garous...Shifters.. are creatures of rage. I think we can all agree to this. The rage pulls on them in ways most of us will not understand. I think we can agree to this as well. As it is notorious for doctors to have bad handwriting, it is also notorious for Ahrouns to have bad diplomacy. There are exceptions to every rule, but I do not think this matter was the exception. You don't send an Ahroun to diplomacy talks, but you do send them to the front lines."

"It is also true that we are to have /mutual/ respect. Shifters are flawed just as much as we are. Elders should be respected for their sacrifices made, but they are not Gods. I do not bow my head and take my knees in worship of them. They can be wrong just as much as any of us can do. It takes a strong leader to admit they are wrong and apologize. I will say that I have seen Jake apologize before when things got a little out of hand, so that speaks for him. However, this matter is not just Jake specifically."

"There are tribes and other shifters in our Nation that see all kinfolk as a manner of things to be beaten and owned. I am not saying Jake in this. I do not think that of him. The problem lies that when an Ahroun allows a threat of violence and says that he will enact the judgment and punishment; it allows the same to be true of those that are not Jake. Those that would step forward and use the line he said to explain and rationalize /their/ behaviors. This cannot be allowed. I have respect for Jake. We had our own misunderstanding and through /mutual/ admittance of wrongdoing, moved past it. I am not against Jake. I am not against any Elder in this Sept. However..."

"I am against being told that my safety measures are not mine. I know I'm not going to call any Elder a dick, or a douche and I will shut up when told instead of running my mouth off. However, I stand by my stance that it needs to be recanted. The rest can stay and he made amazing points, but they were ignored by the promise given. I would like it recanted and I would like it said that those Garou actually go to those that do speak for me and are my shield. Now if I get haughty and say I don't need that shield, those actions are on me. I should still have it. One hit can be a death hit. So in respect, and knowing all the sides. I propose he recants and we meet one on one with the kinfolk to see to helping them understand. Then we move forwards, we need the respect as well as we are giving it. We need our own safety measures. We must act within the scope of our place within the tribe and shifters must do the same. Leave it to Philodox to give judgment and punishment, not the other three. They have their strengths and are respected for it."

[Garou] <<Mocks-The-Dark>>, George has joined this channel.
[Garou] Feed Me! Zeppelin says, "Did you join the channel from the shadows behind me?"
[Garou] Tabia says, "Where _else_ would he join it from?"
[Garou] Pants Ninja Felix says, "Possibly the shadows in front of or beside her! He's tricky, that one."
[Garou] Tabia says, "You do have a point."
[Garou] Katerina has left this channel.
[Garou] Feed Me! Zeppelin says, "One day I'm going to be minding my own business. I'll feel a tap on my shoulder and it will be just his smile."
[Garou] Bastion Sebastien has left this channel.
[Garou] Pants Ninja Felix says, "Cheshire ragabash."
[Garou] Pants Ninja Felix says, "What a terrifying idea."
[Garou] Brightheart Percy says, "Okay but I know a few Bastet who'd fit that bill. >.>"
[Garou] Brightheart Percy says, "There's even a Cheshire Cat Gift."
[Garou] Brightheart Percy says, "To let them /do/ that."
[Garou] Feed Me! Zeppelin says, "I was just like --- I need to make a feline shifter and do that!"
[Garou] Pants Ninja Felix ha! Been way too long since I played Bastet, I didn't know that.
[Garou] Whispered Hymn Antoine says, "Wait? Did I read that? Zeppelin will one day be minding her own business? ;D"
[Garou] Tech-Wiz Furio says, "<3"
[Garou] Tech-Wiz Furio has left this channel.
[Garou] Feed Me! Zeppelin says, "I do that sometimes."
[Garou] Sid has left this channel.
[Garou] Feed Me! Zeppelin says, "If there isn't food."
[Garou] Andrew needs to learn that gift. Get smile over the shoulder.
[Garou] Whispered Hymn Antoine snickers and kids!
[Garou] <<Mocks-The-Dark>>, George snickers
<OOC> Vesta says, "Back Sorry"
[Garou] Tabia drops off the channel for RP.
[Garou] Tabia has left this channel.
[Garou] Whispered Hymn Antoine says, "What's happening at the Mall/Kin house? :D"
[Garou] Feed Me! Zeppelin says, "+events"
[Garou] Halle has left this channel.
[Garou] Velvet Glove Isolde says, "Mall is Mule Day, kin is Kinfolk Meeting"
[Garou] Feed Me! Zeppelin says, "Kin meeting and a Mule celebration?"
[Garou] Jasen says, "Yep, that"
Katerina inclines her head to Furio when he's done speaking to her then shifts her attention to listen to Zeppelin speak. She nods along with her fellow kinfolk, seeming to at least agree with the basics. She glances around the room. "I've something in a similar vein from a different perspective... if no one else wants to respond?"
<OOC> Sirius says, "Welcome back"
Vesta has just been quiet, listening to all thi, arms dropped lightly across her chest.
Halle has reconnected.
Nicolette doesn't appear inclined to say anything just now. She's still just listening.
<OOC> Halle says, "Bad internet. Stay! You stay up! Don't wander off again."
[Garou] <<Winds Of Change>> Starjumper waves.
<OOC> Furio says, "Yaaaay!"
[Garou] Andrew says, "avoo."
Lieselotte comes in from Kinfolk House - Front Yard and Porch
Lieselotte has arrived.
Halle has reconnected.
Sirius has voted for you.
Sirius has voted for you.
You have voted for Bliss
You have voted for Zeppelin
You have voted for Sebastien
You have voted for Lieselotte
You have voted for Rhys
You have voted for Furio
You have voted for Katerina
You have voted for Isolde
You have voted for Sirius
You have voted for Halle
You have voted for Nicolette
You have voted for Bliss
You have voted for Zeppelin
You have voted for Sebastien
You have voted for Lieselotte
You have voted for Rhys
You have voted for Furio
You have voted for Katerina
You have voted for Isolde
You have voted for Sirius
You have voted for Halle
You have voted for Nicolette
Furio nods his head to Zeppelin. "I understand where ya comin' from, Zep," he says. "We've had this discussion, you an' I, privately." He looks back around at the other Kin. "Let's hear what other folks have to say. He sets his gaze on Katarina. "Go ahead," he says with a nod.
Furio has voted for you.
Furio has voted for you.
Halle has voted for you.
Lieselotte has voted for you.
Lieselotte has voted for you.
[Garou] Halle has joined this channel.
Zeppelin has voted for you.
Zeppelin has voted for you.
[Garou] <<Winds Of Change>> Starjumper wave at Halle.
Halle has partially disconnected.
<OOC> Vesta does a thing that has no relevance at this time. I just need to know the result for my eventual pose
<---======##====================[ Dice Roll ]=====================##======--->
Vesta rolls Perception(3) + Alertness(5) (8 dice) vs 6 for 4 successes.
1 3 4 +7 +8 +8 +9 9
<-------------=============++++++++++++++++++++++++=============------------->
<OOC> Vesta says, "OKay"
<OOC> Sebastien says, "Kat will be just a second. She is fixing us a makeshift drape. XD"
Lieselotte takes 1 level of damage.
Lieselotte gains one Bashing Damage
<OOC> Rhys has dinner now. AFK, apologies.
<Zephyr's Hand> Vesta says, "This is fucking stupid"
<OOC> Sirius says, "Stupid sun."
<Zephyr's Hand> Starjumper says, "Huh?"
<Zephyr's Hand> Vesta says, "Oh, I GET it, but Jake needs to take that back. Right now. Cause his words make him sound like he's a big bad bully even though we know he isn't."
<Zephyr's Hand> Vesta says, "I'm at the kinfolk meeting"
<OOC> Katerina says, "goddamn blinds"
<Zephyr's Hand> Journey says, "So everyone understands the message and why its's been said but they don't like it."
<OOC> Katerina says, "sorry, back, typing"
<Zephyr's Hand> Vesta says, "Yup"
<Zephyr's Hand> Starjumper says, "And garou were banned? I don't get it. I think Jake was clear in his message. Maybe a little over the top at the end, but I think that is just the ahroun in him. Especially when he is passionate about something."
<Zephyr's Hand> Vesta says, "THis is just supposed to be a meeting for kin to speak their mind. I haven't done so yet. I'm waiting for everyone to say what they need to."
<Zephyr's Hand> Starjumper says, "Is Nikky there?"
<Zephyr's Hand> Vesta says, "She is."
<Zephyr's Hand> Vesta says, "She hasn't said anything yet"
<Zephyr's Hand> Starjumper says, "She may not."
Nicolette senses "Vesta attempts to make contact and offers a little reassuring smile if she's able to do so"
Starjumper pages: She sent me a page, saying this is stupid, we needed a meeting for this?
You paged Starjumper with 'Hah'
You paged Starjumper with 'FURIO thought so. Andy's pissed'
Starjumper pages: Heh. I bet.
You paged Starjumper with 'Not because they're having the meeting. Not at all. Because it is just creating MORE of a divide'

         Lieselotte has mostly kept to herself, though she's popped up a couple of times when her cousin asked her to. Getting poked at to get out more has her attending this meeting. Some kind of gathering for the rest of the kin. She's careful to close the door as she enters, though there's no staff with her this time around. Settling in, she takes a look around at the others and nods, "Evening. Is this the right place? I'm relatively new."
You paged Starjumper with 'All these meetings are happening and no one has bothered to talk to JAKE yet'
<Zephyr's Hand> Journey says, "I'm sure people are going to be upset about it. This should be interesting to hear about."
<Zephyr's Hand> Vesta says, "You want the blow by blow?"
<Zephyr's Hand> Starjumper says, "Vesta, would you be so kind as to tell Nikky I said hi."
<Zephyr's Hand> Vesta says, "I will. Trying to make eye contact already. I didn't see her when I came in"
<Zephyr's Hand> Journey says, "Oh hit the high points for now."
<Zephyr's Hand> Vesta says, "Furio: Well, when *I* was a boy, my brother almost killed me because I punched his shoulder. Sirius: How is controlling your Rage NOT like driving without your glasses? Zeppelin: Yeah, I get it, but his words were horrible and I want him to do a takesie backsies. Then this: "I am against being told that my safety measures are not mine. I know I'm not going to call any Elder a dick, or a douche and I will shut up when told instead of running my mouth off. However, I stand by my stance that it needs to be recanted. The rest can stay and he made amazing points, but they were ignored by the promise given. I would like it recanted and I would like it said that those Garou actually go to those that do speak for me and are my shield. Now if I get haughty and say I don't need that shield, those actions are on me. I should still have it. One hit can be a death hit. So in respect, and knowing all the sides. I propose he recants and we meet one on one with the kinfolk to see to helping them understand. Then we move forwards, we need the respect as well as we are giving it. We need our own safety measures. We must act within the scope of our place within the tribe and shifters must do the same. Leave it to Philodox to give judgment and punishment, not the other three. They have their strengths and are respected for it.""
From afar, Starjumper needs to talkto Jake icly, but I have talked to him oocly about it.
Long distance to Starjumper: Vesta nodsnods
Furio nods to Lieselotte, silently waving her in and gesturing to the buffet table still loaded with food. He's waiting for Katarina to speak.
[Garou] Digital-Dago Luciano says, "So what are all the wolfies doing while the kin are in their secret meeting? ;)"
[Garou] Whispered Hymn Antoine says, "Hoping that meeting goes well, actually."
Katerina surveys the room for a moment before beginning. "I'll admit I don't know a lot of you, and my mate and I are new to the area and this sept." She begins. "So if anything I say seems woefully out of place I apologize and welcome correction."

She looks towards Furio as she speaks, "I like to think I have some understanding of where Defiant-Storm-Ryah is coming from, not because I have known him personally for exceedingly long but from having been raised in what you would all likely consider a highly conservative Shadow Lord sept. Respect is an issue that our tribe takes very seriously, and his speaking to a lack of respect is not what I see a problem with. It is a group effort between the kin and the true to help our loved ones contain their rage. That is not what I see a problem with either."

Her eyes shift to Zeppelin, "It is the fact that Defiant-Storm-Ryah has stated that should I, theoretically, show what he would term disrespect and he will enact violence upon me /and/ that he claims there is nothing my mate can do about it. If I comprise the territory of another what right does he have to strike me? The old-fashioned metaphor of getting the belt when one misbehaves breaks down at the point where Defiant-Storm-Ryah doesn't have an business being the one holding that belt. The denfather, my tribal elder, and most of all my wife, do." She takes a sip from her wine glass, "We can all understand speaking from the heart in a frustrated moment, we can all understand Full Moons and diplomacy, and I think we can all /also/ understand how threatening others loved ones in such a fashion causes fear amongst the kin and tension between the true."
[Garou] Halle says, "Short-sheeting the kin's beds."
<Zephyr's Hand> Journey says, "That's about what I was expecting."
[Garou] <<Winds Of Change>> Starjumper grins and likes your thinking Halle, "You helping us to short sheet those beds?"
[Garou] Connor says, "Getting actual work done?"
[Garou] Digital-Dago Luciano says, "LOVES Halle's idea."
<OOC> Vesta is going to pose. Might be a big one
[Garou] Digital-Dago Luciano says, "I've been at wrestling tournaments all weekend and missed a Ragabash's favorite day of the year. :("
<OOC> Halle's going to make a comment that she'd have made to Sirius earlier if she'd been able to type then.
<OOC> Halle says, "So sorry for the out-of-time-order of it."
<OOC> Vesta says, "Go for it! It'll take me a miunte anyway"
<Zephyr's Hand> Starjumper says, "Yeah,"
<OOC> Furio says, "Ai, what did I start? XD"
<OOC> Zeppelin says, "I don't know, I type super short poses."
Zeppelin listens.
<OOC> Zeppelin says, "See?"
<OOC> Lieselotte says, "It looks like you started RP. Would you like some help with that? :P"
<OOC> Furio says, "O mai."
You sense Nicolette returns the small, reassuring smile with a faint one of her own. Someone's not real happy about all this. ((Sorry, missed it earlier.))
Halle tells Sirius softly, "I'm not the most knowledgeable at human law. But I think the difference is, the human chose to get drunk or high. The Garou, or shifter, did not choose to have Rage, did not choose to lose control to it. I'm not sure how accurate movies are, but some I've watched with Kevin have spoken of... someone who cannot judge right and wrong is not held accountable by the law. It seems to me, that is the better comparison to a Garou who has frenzied. He or she has no control, and it wasn't of their doing."
<OOC> Sirius says, "Am I cool to reply to Halle or should I wait for the incoming Pose of Doom(tm)? :D"
<OOC> Vesta says, "Go for it. It's gonna take me a minute. Just wanted to say that I'm posing about THIS particular topic, so if it falls out of order, I didn't want people confused"
<OOC> Sirius salutes.
Vesta pushes up to her feet. "My mate is a Theurge, also an Elder. My son, one day, will be a Cub. He will go through his first change. If Gaia is willing, we will catch it in time and his first change will not result in someone's death. Garou are violent. Garou are unpredictable. Even the calmest Ragabash can lose his shit at a moment's notice for something that seems absolutely silly to the rest of us. But here is a fact.

I've seen Jake almost lose his shit a time or two. You know when that happens? When someone - not even necessarily a kin, has been disrespectful. That's his trigger. This was something that was said during the course of a conversation with a bunch of kinfolk. It wasns't an official proclamation. It was a CONVERSATION that got repeated. Was it inaccurate? No. It wasn't. He admits that's what he said, but you are all behaving as if he howled this from the top of the tallest tower and declared himself King Shit of Turd Mountain. What EVERYONE needs to do is maybe go talk to Jake. I'm not even QUITE sure why this meeting is happening. All this is doing is further creating a divide between Us and Them. Go talk to Jake. I have." She takes a breath and moves over to sit next to Nicolette.
<OOC> Vesta says, "Not as long as I thought. I lost my train of thought"

         Lieselotte nods at Furio and moves to get a little bit to eat before finding a seat. Once settled, she wraps the skin around her a little tighter and leans back to listen to the rest of the group.
Furio looks to Halle as she speaks to Sirius. "-Excellent- point, Halle," he says. "Wish I'd thought of it myself. That's actually spot on." He then nods his head to Katarina. "Also valid points," he says. "But not all of us are fortunate enough to have been claimed as mates. An' even regardless o' that... if you took it inta your head to go up to an' Elder an' start poppin' off at the mouth, despite every warning an' all common sense, an' nobody did nothin' about it?" He shakes his head. "It's like I said--he ain't lookin' to go beatin' the shit outta folks because they say somethin' off-color or in the heat of the moment. I'm talkin' about prolonged disrespect. Enough to stir the Rage. We've seen it happen in this sept before, an' it seems like some folks just ain't learned." He scowls a bit. "Honestly? Truth be told? What Jake suggested is a hell of a lot kinder 'n what I'd do, given the option. I got -no- trouble shuntin' someone into a null dimension for awhile, if it gets 'em outta the situation. Better that then risk multiple innocent people gettin' hurt--or killed--because someone had to have the last word an' didn't care about the consequences." He crosses his arms across his chest. "I'm a Virtual Adept. My Tradition o' wizards are champions of democracy an' freedom of expression. But there's all too often more than just the perpetrator at risk. There's -kids- out there. There's families. I'm not prepared to permit that kinda risk, just because someone's got a hair up they ass at one of the warriors." He nods to Zeppelin. "Now I agree with Zeppelin. I think it'd be prudent for Jake to take back what he said, apologize for the misunderstanding, an' clarify his intentions. The last thing any of us want is Kinfolk bein' afraid of the very warriors whose duty it is to protect us. But I -can't- disagree with the sentiment of what Jake said. An' as I said... no trouble puttin' someone in Time Out if they's bein' an idiot." He looks over to Vesta and nods. "Thanks for that, Vesta," he says. "That puts a lotta things in perspective. We need that."
[Garou] Giselle says, "We had a party last night"
Zeppelin lifts her brows a bit at Vesta and then at Furio. "Whoa." The one word so maybe she won't be as wordy this time. "Furio, I don't think this is the time to start waving around how you are a mage and you will null dimension anyone. I mean that. Magic is cool to me, but it's not to everyone. So maybe stand down a bit. This is supposed to be a discussion. You need to talk with people not at them." Her voice is calm though when she speaks. She looks towards Vesta. "Jake knows his speech got out, his doing, kin doing, gossip doing, it's out there. His words are out there. He needs to own them in public, not in side meetings one-on-one. It was made public and the intention needs to be made public as well." She looks at the others. "As I said, I have no issue with Jake personally. This is not a personal attack to his character. It is the words and that he said he will act against a kin and ignore that there are reasons that steps are in place. In the last issue, the kin was completely in the wrong in my eyes. I am not blinded that we can be wrong. I've been wrong before. It happens. However, there are steps that should be taken. It is a fact that a large divide was created by that speech. There is not one here that has not seen that divide or heard of it. So to fix it, it is only logical it must be done by the same person giving the speech in the first part." She looks around. "I am not a Philodox. It is only my opinion as a kinfolk of this Sept and upon listening to many sides of this debate."
<Zephyr's Hand> Billy says, "This is stupid. Back in MY day, you talk back to a superior and you're either doing push ups till you puke or you go to the brig, never mind the expected and deserved hit. Boo hoo, the Ahroun acted like an Ahroun."
"And he would do so. Gladly. Of that I have no doubt. The 'side meetings' that he had - one was in public and the other one, Quentin asked him to come to speak privately. He HAS owned up to them. But instead of talking WITH him, we are all sitting here talking ABOUT him," Vesta offers because the player has to AFK for several minutes and I don't want to miss it.
<Zephyr's Hand> Starjumper says, "What is the Brig?"
<Zephyr's Hand> Vesta says, "Zeppelin: He needs to make his words and intentions in public, not in these side meetings. Me: And here we are talking ABOUT him instead of WITH him."
<Zephyr's Hand> Billy says, "Military prison"
<Zephyr's Hand> Starjumper says, "Good point Vesta. THank you for clarifying Billy."
<Zephyr's Hand> Journey says, "Sorry, the Council of Elders will make Sept policy."
<Zephyr's Hand> Starjumper says, "Isn't that they its supposed to work in septs, Journey?"
<Zephyr's Hand> Journey says, "Yes, but not how Zeppelin wants it to be it sounds like"
<Zephyr's Hand> Billy says, "I just don't get it. I mean I know I'm from a militant race that was born and raised within the military as well, BUT STILL. This is all Communist agenda and propaganda! THE REDS ARE GETTING INTO OUR STUFF!"
<Zephyr's Hand> Starjumper says, "I think I understand what your saying but not so much the words."
<Zephyr's Hand> Jake says, "You tell 'em, Billy! That's commie pinko talk!"

         Sirius leans closer to Halle when she addresses him quietly, posture open and expression curious until the point where the proverbial 'lightbulb' goes off behind his eyes and he nods enthusiastically. "Yes, that's called a plea of insanity." He stops, tilts his head to one side and purses his lips. "Insanity plea? Diminished capacity? Something like that. But even then, if they present a continued danger to people around them, they're sent to places that are separate, where they can't hurt anyone. Steps are taken to diminish the danger they pose. Not that I'm saying the true born should be sent away somewhere or anything like that," he amends quickly. "Just that even in those cases steps are taken to neutralize the person who is the source of the danger, not asking everyone around them to live their lives constantly on the lookout for someone who could hurt them whether they mean to or not." Vesta's response, however, startles him enough that he jerks back, impossibly bright eyes momentarily wide. "You just described a wild animal, ma'am." There is a trembling in his hands that sloshes the water inside his cup, but he manages to keep his voice steady - a feat that would be easier if he could be effected by his own aura. "Violent. Unpredictable. Entirely unable to help themselves. Does that not do the true born a disservice? They are more than just wolf or lion or shark, they are human and spirit as well." His discomfort with the tone of her statement is evident, however, in his body language. "We were called and we came. I understand loyalty to your pod and those close to you, but there is an accusation in your phrasing that feels a little bit misplaced. Nevermind that this is a subject of importance to everyone here well beyond the /specific/ incident in question. I have little to fear from the frenzy. The gifts of my mother quell rage in those who draw near to me. But for those without these protections, where the line is drawn in the shared responsibility is a vital one - and one that deserves extended consideration and civilized discussion, surely?"
<Zephyr's Hand> Jake says, "I stand by what I said. Every word. Unless the Elders order me to recant. I, unlike many here, respect the wisdom and experience of our Elders."
<Zephyr's Hand> Journey says, "I have yet to hear one word of disagreement"
<Zephyr's Hand> Vesta says, "Fuck OFF Sirius"
<Zephyr's Hand> Journey says, "What's the Orca saying?"
<Zephyr's Hand> Starjumper says, "Who is Sirios?"
<Zephyr's Hand> Starjumper says, "Oh."
<Zephyr's Hand> Billy says, "Why does a giant fish have anything to say about the Garou Nation's business?"
The look Katerina gives Furio when he speaks of null dimensions is sharp, though it passes after just a moment. It certainly seems to help that Zepplin is already speaking to the matter. She consider's Vesta's words for a moment before shrugging, "His conversation did get out, the only context many of us had was that he /was/ proclaiming himself the Shit King of Turd Mountain, to borrow a phrase." She pauses momentarily to polish off her wine and set her glass aside. "I don't know about you but to me the wiser thing to do when an Athro Ahroun appears to promise violence is go to the kin meeting where you can get some more context instead of blindly wandering in to what, for all you know, might still be a rage triggered Trueborn." Katerina takes a moment to check her temper. "No one is trying to besmirch Defiant-Storm-Ryah's character, we all understand the circumstances. Some of us lacked essential information and now we have it, thank you for that, but there's no need to shame people for action with caution upon the information that they had available to them." She takes a breath in and out to clear her head.
<Zephyr's Hand> Journey says, "Dunno. I didn't make the guest list. I doubt his input will get much traction when whatever gets presented to the Garou"
<Zephyr's Hand> Starjumper says, "Why is the fish allowed to be there but the Garou, especially Jake is not allowed to be there?"
<Zephyr's Hand> Journey says, "Same answer"
Vesta frowns as Sirius speaks and she shakes her head. "No. I get that you're new around here and new to people in general, but you're taking words and twisting them around. They ARE violent and they ARE unpredictable. I did not say that they have no control over themselves. I'm saying everyone has their triggers." She sighs. "Look. How about all of us. Right now... just call Jake in here and let HIM tell you DIRECTLY. Answer your questions. I can have him here LITERALLY in a few seconds if you guys want to chat with him." She nods to Katerina. "I'm not shaming anyone. I'm stating my opinion. We've had our meeting. We all agree, I think, that it isn't as bad as it sounds. So let's get him in here to tell his side of things."
<Zephyr's Hand> Journey says, "Him being there, unless he has a connection to Garou blood I don't know, only serves to discredit the meeting"
<Zephyr's Hand> Vesta says, "Katerina can ALSO fuck off. I just suggested that everyone stop gossipping and let Jake come in to tell his side of things and answer questions directly."
<OOC> Vesta adds
Kinfolk House - Greatroom and Kitchen(#3488RAM)

         This is the open greatroom and kitchen, with multiple tables and chairs for a small army of kinfolk to eat in peace. There is an industrial kitchen attached and open to the greatroom, not designed to be pretty and elegant, but rather one built for function of feeding the army, and possibly the army of shifters outside. Running at full capacity, the kitchen would require a team of chefs to operate. There multiple large windows that look out towards the porch, with a button next to each window to activate the 'privacy glass'. With a simple switch, the windows become impossible to see through and provide privacy in case anyone is trying to stare inside. Towards the corner of the room is a fireplace to warm up by, though the fire is natural gas, and central air keeps the house at a comfortable temprature.

         Of note, is a single staircase that leads up to the attic area, a commons for people wanting some peace and quiet to sleep. There are no beds or privacy, but sleeping bags that are better then nothing. There are a few unclaimed rooms downstairs, for permenant residents to move in and claim this as their home.

         There is a wall hanging on the wall, made of stones and gold. (+view here/wall_hanging)
         This hanging requires all rage rolls made in this house are at diff 9.

         (This room needs a Fae desc. @mail building staff if you want to provide one.)


         (This room needs an Umbra desc. @mail building staff if you want to provide one.)


         (This room needs a Wraith desc. @mail building staff if you want to provide one.)

Contents:
Lieselotte
Bliss
Rhys
Sebastien
Isolde
Halle
Furio
Sirius
Katerina
Nicolette
Zeppelin
Obvious Exits:
Master Bedroom <MB>   Front Door <OUT>
"ALSO.. why are there kin here who aren't Garou-affilliated? This is about GAROU law. Not Fera law." Vesta is PROBABLY being confrontational, but her tone is smooth at leat
<Zephyr's Hand> Jake says, "And the one hit being a death hit is laughable. Perhaps that's true about someone that doesn't know what they're doing but there are twenty seven bones in the human hand and I can break any one of those independently depending on the pressure I use."
Bliss' gaze flits curiously from one person to another as they speak. She remains by the door, watching the exchange without adding to it. She arrived late to the meeting, and is piecing together what she missed through the conversation around her. As Vesta mentions bringing Jake in to speak for himself, she nods her head in silent agreement.
Nicolette leans lightly against Vesta for a moment, just giving her shoulder a friendly little nudge. And then she finally speaks up. "Last Sept I had any "involvement" with before moving here, Kin weren't allowed anywhere near the Caern. To even address a Garou in a manner that wasn't the utmost respectful was unthinkable." Yeah, she makes the air quotes with her fingers. "I just...don't think a lot of people here know how good you all have it. To disrespect an Elder back there? For a Kin, you were pretty much forfeiting your life. If Jake-rhya was out of line in any way, then it's the place of /his/ peers and Elders to question his actions and words. Not ours. Isn't it?"
<Zephyr's Hand> Starjumper says, "I can kill someone with one hit, but that would have to be my intention from the beginning. It is my experience that a dead person can't learn any lessons."
<Zephyr's Hand> Journey says, "True of anyone skilled. There's lots of ways to inflict pain nonlethally. The single hit kill is a distinct possibility, but yes, not worth worrying about."
<Zephyr's Hand> Vesta says, "Hell, I could knock out a few teeth and do it from across the room."
Furio looks over to Vesta. "I wanted to have a discussion about what was said without 'im feelin' like he was bein' put on the spot," he says. "That's why I didn't want -any- Garou here. Everyone here has raised valid points, an' they all merit discussion. But addin' Rage to the mix here... that seemed like somethin' dangerous." He looks over to Zeppelin, frowning a bit. "It doesn't hurt," he says softly. "It's just... a space pocket. Somewhere nobody can reach 'em. So they'd be -safe-, but they'd also be removed from the situation." He sighs, shaking his head. "Look," he says. "Everyone. Jake is a good man. A good friend to me, an' a good friend to the sept. An' he's a good friend to -you-. Vesta's right--everyone's gettin' bent outta shape for no good reason. As long as we do what we know we's supposed to, then ain't nothin' gonna happen." He nods to Nicolette. "You's right," he says. "But it's like Zeppelin said. Despite what Jake intended, this whole things is pushin' the Kin apart from the Garou. I'm tryin' to heal that breech." He looks after Katarina as she walks out with a scowl. "Doin' a piss-poor job of it, too," he grumbles with a sigh. "Dammit. Julian was always the charmer. Why'd I have to get all the brains, ah? Don't seem right." He looks back to Vesta. "I can text Jake an' see if he'd be willin' to come an' talk to us. Maybe that's what we need to clear the air here."

         Lieselotte seems to at least be listening to all of the differing viewpoints. Having finished with the food she stands and takes it to whatever trash recepticle has been set up to be polite about it. She seems a little confused by the practice, as if it's not something she would normally do. Turning to face the rest of the group, "I am new here. I'm Lydia's cousin, Lieselotte Heideain, and If I haven't met you yet then hello. I think I have a pretty good understanding so far as to what the issue is. At least as far as I'm concerned, it's not really an issue. I didn't really mind the tone of the speach. Talk shit, get hit. I can live with that. If you want to talk shit, then you should be able to fight for it. Might makes right. Basically, to summarize, if anyone wants to try to kill me for what I said I feel like that's fair game and I respect their commitment but I'm not going to lie down and take it either."
         She shrugs a bit, "And if someone isn't supposed to hit you because you have a mate, then that's really up to your mate to enforce."
<Zephyr's Hand> Jake says, "No, dead people tend to be rather difficult to teach. Plus, they have terrible hygiene."
<Zephyr's Hand> Starjumper says, "Agreed."
<OOC> Sirius says, "I don't think Kat walked out?"
<OOC> Katerina is still here
<OOC> Sirius says, "I thought she just breathed in and out to calm herself, but I may be having a blind moment. >.>"
<Zephyr's Hand> Starjumper says, "Are you busy Jake?"
<OOC> Katerina says, "nah, she just took a breath. she shot Furio a look for a moment but it was gone by the time she started speaking. Sorry poor wording on my part."
<Zephyr's Hand> Jake says, "Not at all, buddy."
<Zephyr's Hand> Starjumper says, "Want to come by so we can talk."
<Zephyr's Hand> Jake says, "Why don't you come here. I'm getting together some of the extra food we have to bring to the Gnawers."
<Zephyr's Hand> Vesta says, "Jake you wanna come to this stupid fucking meeting if people agree?"
Halle listens to Zeppelin and Sirius, pausing in thought for a few moments after. Halle nods towards Nicolette in agreement. "I'm not sure your name," she says to Sirius, giving him a friendly smile. "I'm Halle, kin to the Children of Gaia. I think you touch on something important in all of this. The nature of the shifters. I know Garou best so will limit my comments to them. Yes, they are a melding of human, of wolf, of spirit. Calling them wild animal is not right. But to think Garou do not feel the pull of the same instincts that wolves do is probably equally not right."

Halle pauses a moment again, trying to pick her words carefully. "Jake's words did not astonish me. My experience is Garou, like wolves are creatures of dominance. For a kin to test that with an Elder at the level of disrespect I believe Jake was speaking to, I think they should expect to feel a Garou's teeth around their throat to remind them, this is not human society, and we kin are not equals to them. I would not expect to wait for a Philodox to show up. I expect the Elder would do it then and there. This is even before we start speaking of the danger of Frenzies, where for the safety of all Kin, it's best to avoid situations that can provoke a frenzy. Which also explains that, I don't find Furio's statements that he would consider intervening to defuse such a situation to be unusual either."
<Zephyr's Hand> Starjumper says, "Hmm, I think that would be a good idea Jake, so you can set them straight. And maybe they will quit going overboard on stuff."
Vesta smiles at Nicolette and nudges her right back, then stands up when Halle speaks. "THANK you. Oh my god, thank you." She flops back down and leans against Nicolette with a sigh.
<Zephyr's Hand> Jake says, "I don't know if that's a good idea. What is it people don't understand? Don't disrespect an Elder. What's so difficult about understanding that? What do you think, Alpha?"
<Zephyr's Hand> Journey says, "I think it's the only way they're not going to misinterpret things"
Zeppelin takes a breath and releases it lightly. "We need to stop attacking each other. Stop saying people don't know how good they have it. You have no clue what anyone in this room has gone through. You have no clue the paths they have walked. Do not insult their intelligence or their knowledge base because you do not agree with what they are saying. I was raised on a very very laid back area. I had some growing pains when I first got here, but I get it. This is an issue that both sides need to make a compromise on. However, you cannot put one side up on a pedestal and tell the other just to suck it up without some push back. This Sept is pretty laid back. It has been allowed to be laid back. That happened by those that ran it. You cannot then overnight tell them to change everything they are use to because it no longer serves the personal purpose. There is a standard that is in place. They want to refer to the military? So be it. When you are married to the military, you are under a lot of rules and regulations. When you step out of line as a spouse, then your spouse takes the heat. They are stripped, they are given more work, whatever their commanding officers tell them. Their CO's do not show up at your door and backhand you. They tell your spouse to handle their wife or husband." She turns her attention towards Halle, her voice is still calm. Her brows lift a bit to Halle and then she looks at Vesta. There is a shake of her head before she looks around the room.

         Sirius is about as violent as a wet noodle and as sharp as a golden retriever still in milk teeth, but life as Rorqual sets a certain expectation as to the level of respect one is to expect inside civilized discourse where no insult has been offered. So that level of confrontation makes him sit up straighter, hands still shaking but chin lifted. "This seems to me an issue of concern for /all/ Kinfolk coming in and out of the caern, unless you sincerely mean to tell me that you expect the Fera kin to be exempt from Garou notions of justice. If this is a ruling you expect people to live by and with, you should be open to answering their questions and addressing their concerns, not exclude them from the venue to do so while also expecting them to abide by such things." And though he falls silent to let Nicolette and Halle and Zeppelin speak uninterrupted, the atmosphere has been tangibly altered and he shakes his head. "If this is to be a Garou-only matter, however, then I shall of course withdraw."
<Zephyr's Hand> Vesta says, "nevermind. They don't want answers. They want to argue."
<Zephyr's Hand> Journey says, "Make sure you alert them to that fact"
<Zephyr's Hand> Jake says, "Misinterpret what? If you're intentionally rude to an Elder and if I'm around to see it happen the person is going to get whacked upside the head. It's not rocket science. Are these people even speaking English?"
<Zephyr's Hand> Journey says, "Jake, all it takes is one person being intentionally dense and twisting things to throw understanding right out the window."
<Zephyr's Hand> Starjumper says, "It sounds like they are thinking your going to beat them to death for it though."
"Not my meeting. I was asking a question" Vesta says to Sirius. "But I DID ask a DIFFERENT question that no one seems to want to answer. Do you want Jake here to answer your questions or do you want to just keep arguing about semantics?"
<OOC> Vesta says, "And another AFK. Goddammit"
<Zephyr's Hand> Journey says, "Just takes one person spreading that to have it catch on."
<Zephyr's Hand> Jake says, "Then it sounds like they plan on disrespecting Elders in the future. Again, it's easy. DON'T be disrespectful. If they're worried then that means they don't plan on following that simple rule. This is starting to irritate me."
Halle motions to Zeppelin. "You seem to be upset at what I said. What part of it do you disagree with? That Garou have a strong measure of wolf instincts when it comes to dominance? That they enforce dominance when it is not followed, or when disrespect is shown?"
<Zephyr's Hand> Journey says, "That will be the next step. Testing you."
Furio looks back to Vesta. "With the way tempers are runnin' here, I really don't think it's a good idea to have Jake here in person." He rubs his beard thoughtfully. "I -can- have 'im go to my penthouse, an' we can talk to 'im over video. Might help keep things calmer." He looks between Halle and Zeppelin, listening to their conversation.
<Zephyr's Hand> Starjumper says, "Stay calm Jake I'll be there in a minute."
<Zephyr's Hand> Jake says, "I'm calm, brother. I'm simply flummoxed by all this."
<Zephyr's Hand> Vesta says, "Yeah, nevermind. You don't need to be at this meeting, Jake."
<Zephyr's Hand> Jake says, "Thanks, Vesta. And thanks for the news flashes."
"Annie being reprimanded for her disrespect towards Shaderunner-ryah, and the notion of Defiant-Storm-Ryah personally offering kinfolk violence are two different things." Katerina says, running a hand through her hair so she has at least something to fidget with. "I too, come from a sept where my own father would have mauled me within an inch of my life for behaving the way she did. I don't think anyone here is taking for granted how good they have it or trying to say there shouldn't be consequences for that kind of disrespect." She sighs, "Thanks to Furio and Vesta I now know that my concerns were a non-issue. Fantastic, at this point Vesta is right, we should either move on or disperse." Kat seems dead set on ignoring the Fera derail in the corner.
Nicolette nods (belatedly) at Halle's words about Garou being dominant and such. "Yes...that," she agrees. And she inclines her head to Zeppelin. "I didn't mean any insult. I'm sorry. I'm just grateful that I'm accepted and allowed to feel like I'm part of something here. I didn't have that before. It's new to me, and it's /so/ much better than being kept at a distance. If toeing the line and respecting my Elders is the price I have to pay for it, then for me, I'm good with that. That's all I'm saying."

         "You said it is about Garou Law, not Fera Law. And yet the Garou also expect Fera to follow Garou Law. It was a question, but a pointed one. If you wish me to follow Garou Law and then question my presence in a meeting to discuss and clarify the law you wish me to follow, that makes a statement all its own." And despite the fact that he manages to keep his voice steady, this is one place where the difference between the world he knows and this world he does not is awful and unfair and entirely overwhelming. There is only so much that sheer force of will alone can do to overcome just /so much/ at once and there is a very distinct shake to Sirius' legs as he stands, disposes of his cup and offers a jerky nod of respect toward the meeting's host. He's out.
"Maybe I can help?" A small voice pipes up from against the wall. Bliss straightens and drops her hands to her sides. "I can help keep the room calm, much like .. mm .. what was his name again? Kanu? I think that's right, yeah? It makes it much easier to remain calm or find your calm again should tempers be lost. I trust Jake, and his hold of his temper. So long as we're not all disrespectful to him, I don't think it should be a problem, yeah?"
<OOC> Sirius says, "Oh look, the gift Sirius just mentioned. XD Helpful thing, that."
Zeppelin shakes her head. "I am not upset. I have heard these statements before. Everything being said by all parties has been heard and said and discussed before. I just disagree. I do it respectfully, though. I believe you are right to how you feel matters should be just as those that don't have their right of opinion. I do not believe that any elder or any shifter should have the right to just dispense an action against a kin. I believe the proper steps are to have the kin removed. It's why we have a Den M-Father. They should be brought here. It should be handled either with the Den Father, or the Den Father and their mate, their pack, someone that speaks for them. It should not just be dealt with right there in a matter of violence." Zeppelin offers. "Now that said, I do not think a kin of any species should run their mouth at a shifter. Nor should they be allowed to run around and run off at the mouth as has been done at lease.. twice I can think of in this month. I don't deny there is a problem with that at all."
<OOC> Bliss thumbs-up to Sirius.
Vesta shakes her head at Furio "Not tonight. I already told him that wasn't happening and he's made other plans. He's celebrating Mule Day at the Dead Mall, which is what we should all be doing." She nods to Katarina and then glances at Sirius. "This is something that should have been kept in the Garou kin until things were sorted out and THEN worry about the Fera. The Fera are GUESTS at the sept and not invited into the decision making process." She holds up a finger. "I don't mean that to be disrespectful. That's just how it is."
<Zephyr's Hand> Vesta says, "SHUT THE FUCK UP, YOU GODDAMN ORCA BITCH"
<---======##====================[ Dice Roll ]=====================##======--->
Vesta rolls Willpower(10) (10 dice) vs 8 for 6 successes.
2 2 3 5 +8 +9 +9 +10 +10 +10
<-------------=============++++++++++++++++++++++++=============------------->
Sent to: Vesta and Journey
<Zephyr's Hand> Journey says, "Still?"
You paged Journey with 'Cool as a cucumber'
<Zephyr's Hand> Vesta says, ""You said it is about Garou Law, not Fera Law. And yet the Garou also expect Fera to follow Garou Law. It was a question, but a pointed one. If you wish me to follow Garou Law and then question my presence in a meeting to discuss and clarify the law you wish me to follow, that makes a statement all its own." And despite the fact that he manages to keep his voice steady, this is one place where the difference between the world he knows and this world he does not is awful and unfair and entirely overwhelming. There is only so much that sheer force of will alone can do to overcome just /so much/ at once and there is a very distinct shake to Sirius' legs as he stands, disposes of his cup and offers a jerky nod of respect toward the meeting's host. He's out."

         Lieselotte finds her seat and once more pulls the skin closer to her, wrapping it around so that it covers her body. She looks over at everyone quietly before looking back towards Furio, "Assuming you did bring Shaderunner-Ryah here, what questions would he be asked? I don't really see that there's any confusion about what he meant to convey or what led to it." She shrugs a bit.
<Zephyr's Hand> Journey says, "There is so much wrong in that statement."
<Zephyr's Hand> Billy says, "So much wrong. Especially considering this whole thing was made as a statement to *Garou* kinfolk, and no one else. I still don't understand how a fish got entry to this or why it was invited anyways. I mean I respect Fera just fine, they exist for a reason and they have as much place in the world as we do, but this is *our* stupid issue and doesn't concern them in the slightest."
<Zephyr's Hand> Simon Jones says, "I agree with you on that Billy."
[Garou] Daegan says, "arooo"
[Garou] <<Winds Of Change>> Simon Jones howls.
<Zephyr's Hand> Vesta says, "Vesta shakes her head at Furio "Not tonight. I already told him that wasn't happening and he's made other plans. He's celebrating Mule Day at the Dead Mall, which is what we should all be doing." She nods to Katarina and then glances at Sirius. "This is something that should have been kept in the Garou kin until things were sorted out and THEN worry about the Fera. The Fera are GUESTS at the sept and not invited into the decision making process." She holds up a finger. "I don't mean that to be disrespectful. That's just how it is.""
Lydia has arrived.
<OOC> Lydia says, "bam people. THis a private scene?"
<OOC> Vesta says, "Yup"
<OOC> Lydia says, "bam there I go."
Lydia moves to Kinfolk House - Front Yard and Porch
Lydia has left.
<OOC> Vesta pages Lydia to explain
You paged Lydia with 'It's specifically a kinfolk meeting. No idea why Rhys is here. Maybe just to record a log or something?'
[Garou] Daegan says, "how goes it?"
From afar, Lydia shrugs.
<OOC> Zeppelin says, "She could to the 'kitchen' with the other Garou"
Furio looks over at Bliss and nods his head. "That could be -very- useful if situations become tense," he says. "In fact, with your permission, I wouldn't mind studyin' that ability, to see if I can replicate it with my Code. I could disseminate that to the other Kinmagi, so we'd all have a reliable means of helpin' keep frenzies from happenin' when they shouldn't." He watches Sirius go, then looks over to Vesta. "I didn't realize that Fera Kinfolk had even heard about this meeting," he says softly. "But I'd figure they'd benefit from what we've been discussin' just as much as the Garou's Kin." He looks over to Zeppelin and nods his head. "None of us want it to come to violence. Or even null dimensions, which don't even really hurt. But folks need to understand that it -can-, an' it's somethin' that we need to be prepared to accept. Much as I hate absolutes, it really does come down to bad or worse. -Worst-, even." He runs a hand over his left hip, a haunted expression crossing his face. "My own brother almost killed me, over hardly nothin' at all. For -this-? For Garou who don't have nothin' but tribal ties?" He shakes his head with a soft sigh. "All right... I think we've all said our piece. I -hope- we've all come into some better understandin' of what's goin' on. It's good that we're able to get together an' discuss things like this, even if we don't always agree one hundred percent." He spreads his hands. "Feel free to take some food with yas. An' you all got my number if you need anything. Please feel free to reach out to me any time." He looks around. "Anyone have anything else they wanna say before we wrap this up?"
Long distance to Lydia: Vesta just wanted to explain.
Lydia pages: I just feel alienated from the sept its nothing to do with your kinfolk meeting.
Halle gives Zeppelin a smile, and it is a warm and friendly one trying to defuse any tension. "That is where the disagreement lies. You said I have a right to how I feel matters -should be-. I've not spoken on how I think it -should be- in this regard. I've spoken on how I think this society -actually is-. Based on what I've observed in my time amongst Garou, both here and at the other Sept. I hear others saying things that make me believe their experiences are similar."
Vesta nods to Furio. "Again, just my opinion. This is your meeting. I just have a big mouth and a lot of strong opinions."
<Zephyr's Hand> Vesta says, "And Furio can go fuck right off with them. WHY was this meeting a good idea?"
<Zephyr's Hand> Vesta says, "Furio looks over at Bliss and nods his head. "That could be -very- useful if situations become tense," he says. "In fact, with your permission, I wouldn't mind studyin' that ability, to see if I can replicate it with my Code. I could disseminate that to the other Kinmagi, so we'd all have a reliable means of helpin' keep frenzies from happenin' when they shouldn't." He watches Sirius go, then looks over to Vesta. "I didn't realize that Fera Kinfolk had even heard about this meeting," he says softly. "But I'd figure they'd benefit from what we've been discussin' just as much as the Garou's Kin." He looks over to Zeppelin and nods his head. "None of us want it to come to violence. Or even null dimensions, which don't even really hurt. But folks need to understand that it -can-, an' it's somethin' that we need to be prepared to accept. Much as I hate absolutes, it really does come down to bad or worse. -Worst-, even." He runs a hand over his left hip, a haunted expression crossing his face. "My own brother almost killed me, over hardly nothin' at all. For -this-? For Garou who don't have nothin' but tribal ties?" He shakes his head with a soft sigh. "All right... I think we've all said our piece. I -hope- we've all come into some better understandin' of what's goin' on. It's good that we're able to get together an' discuss things like this, even if we don't always agree one hundred percent." He spreads his hands. "Feel free to take some food with yas. An' you all got my number if you need anything. Please feel free to reach out to me any time." He looks around. "Anyone have anything else they wanna say before we wrap this up?""
Nicolette senses "Vesta is like... shaking with anger, but she is speaking and behaving cool as a cucumber"
Bliss lifts a shoulder in a half-shrug. "I don't expect it would be a problem, yeah?" she responds to Furio, "but if it's heolpful then I'm happy to try." She nods, mostly to herself and returns to leaning against the wall, in no particular hurry to head out.
Sorry, Nicky is not connected.
No one to page.
Long distance to Nicolette: Vesta got 9 successes on a willpower roll
<OOC> Sirius says, "In my defense, I saw other Fera kin on the signup list and was told by a Garou player when I sought clarification that Fera kin who spend time at the caern should probably go, too. Additionally, when asked about having seen frenzy, Sirius did explicitly say he'd seen Rokea not Garou."
From afar, Nicolette wows!
<OOC> Vesta says, "OH! That's perfectly fine. I'm just speakig from Vesta's POV."
<Zephyr's Hand> Journey says, "Because it was his idea?"
Nicolette appears to have said her piece. She glances at Vesta, watching her when /she/ speaks, but that's about it.
<OOC> Sirius nodnodnod. And that's entirely valid, I just saw Furio also being like 'dude I didn't know' and wanted to make sure I wasn't about to be shanked OOCly for crashing a faction specific event. XD
<OOC> Sirius gets outta y'alls hair now, though. Thanks for the RP!
<OOC> Vesta Nodnods. OOCly, totally cool. ICly, no one told you to leave, so it's all good
<Zephyr's Hand> Jake says, "Vesta, if it's appropriate, simply reinstate my stance. Tell them they have nothing to worry about if they don't publicly defy and disrespect an Elder."
<OOC> Furio says, "Take care!"
Halle has voted for you.
Sirius goes home.
Sirius has left.
<Zephyr's Hand> Vesta says, "That's been said to death, Jake. They all know it. They're jut arguing the semantics. They want you to say it nicer. FUCK that."
Zeppelin doesn't appear tense. There is a percent of a chance she's high as it is.
<OOC> Zeppelin says, "OOPS"
You paged Nicolette with 'AT diff 8, no less.'
Zeppelin doesn't appear tense. There is a percent of a chance she's high as it is. "I think your definition of is and not everyone here matches." She's still super happy and nice. She means it when she says respectfully. She's cool with differing commentary. "Which is also part of the problem." Her eyes look towards Furio as he ends the meeting, but she's not in a rush to run to the door either. There is /food/ still.
<Zephyr's Hand> Jake says, "Okay, then tell them I promise to bring them flowers while they're recouperating in the hospital after they disrespect an Elder."
Vesta opens her mouth to say something else, then snorts... not obviously at what Zeppelin says, but she pinches the bridge of her nose briefly and then clears her throat and shifts in her seat. "I'm sorry, Zeppelin. That first part. Can you say that again?" It's not a snarky question.
(New BB message (7/5) posted to 'Public General' by Zeppelin: Outta here)

=============================== Public General ===============================
Message: 7/5                       Posted        Author
Outta here                         Sun Apr 02    Zeppelin
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
... for you know a few days, maybe a week. I have to move cross country starting tomorrow and then get settled in there. So all alts and myself will be gone doing um things. Secret things. Interesting things. --- Okay not really, but I will attempt to check in.

==============================================================================
<OOC> Halle says, "still be here, closing laptop"
Halle has partially disconnected.
<Zephyr's Hand> Vesta says, "Goddammit. I almost choked on my own spit for that"

         Lieselotte stands and quietly makes her way to the door. She'll sneak out into the night and head back towards wherever it is she haunts.
Zeppelin nods her head. "I don't think everyone sees the same. This is just how it is. I could be wrong. It happens." She grins to that. "But I think part of the issue is people saying this is the way it is and others saying no, it's like this."
<OOC> Lieselotte says, "t hanks for the rp"
Katerina sets her glass aside and stands, straightening out the crinkles in her jacket before turning towards Vesta. "I did mean it when I said thank you for the information and insight." She offers as a verbal olive branch. "I apologize for my frustration getting the better of me." She offers to the strider kin. Then she looks over her shoulder towards Furio, "Thank you for putting all of this together and moderating." She offers the Glaswalker kin a slightly wavering smile. "Your taste in wine is excellent."
<OOC> Furio says, "See ya, thanks for coming!"
<Zephyr's Hand> Journey says, "Wow"
<OOC> Katerina says, "ahhh sorry to drop that in the middle of your banter. feel free to finish your exchange."
<OOC> Katerina says, "thanks for the RP Furio"
Vesta shakes her head to Katerina "It's all good. Really. Everyone's allowed an opinion and clarification WAS neessary. I just feel like we're beating a dead horse at this point."
Lieselotte has left.
<OOC> Vesta gets that out before she leaves
<OOC> Rhys says, "Thanks Furio"
<OOC> Zeppelin says, "Drop things where you want."
<OOC> Halle says, "Thanks Furio. :)"
<OOC> Furio is about ready to call scene, just wanted to make sure everyone said everything they wanted to. :)
<OOC> Furio says, "Thanks for coming out! Hope everyone had fun. :)"
<OOC> Vesta is good to end it officially, but maybe keep going for those who want to
<OOC> Vesta says, "But I need to AFK a minute"
<OOC> Furio says, "Of course, nobody's chasing you out!"
<OOC> Sebastien will go stop staring a screen now.
<OOC> Furio does a final pose to wrap things up.
<OOC> Isolde says, "Thanks for hosting"
<OOC> Nicolette says, "Yes, thanks for running the scene!"
<OOC> Bliss says, "Though I wasn't here the whole time, the part I was here for went well. Thanks, Furio."
Katerina nods to Vesta seeming to agree, "Hopefully the next time we speak is in better circumstances." She offers. "Give Shaderunner-Ryah and Defiant-Storm-Ryah my regards." She offers a smile to the room at large before making for the door.
Furio nods his head to Katarina. "Thanks. I'm glad ya liked it," he says, managing a bit of a smile. He looks all around. "At the end of the day... we's all friends here. We's -family-. An' family is gonna disagree. God knows I butt heads with my little brother, even today. But that don't stop us from lovin' one another. It's the same with us. With -all- of us. This is -our- Nation, just as it is the Garou's. This ain't a problem so big that we can't fix it by bein' family an' workin' things out." His smile broadens. "We can do anything, if we work together." Far from sounding like a trite Saturday morning cartoon, the big man sounds like he genuinely means it. He looks up at the camera dot. "Anyone still at my place, I think we's done here. I sure hope you's guys didn't trash the place." He taps his earbud. "Eva, kill the outgoing." The camera dot winks out. "I'ma step outside for a bit if anyone wants to keep talkin'," he says. He digs into his pocket for one of his cigars, and goes to snag himself another beer.
<OOC> Furio will have the log posted in a day or so, when I have time to clean it up.
<Zephyr's Hand> Billy says, "HA! Way to not fall to the Reds, Jake! I love you, brother!"
<Zephyr's Hand> Jake says, "Love you too, Brother. Love all of you."
<OOC> Sebastien says, "Furio comes home three beers lighter, that's about it. XD"
<OOC> Furio made sure there was plenty of that for folks. :)
<OOC> Rhys grins.
<Zephyr's Hand> Journey says, "this makes me so happy."
<OOC> Rhys waves, thanks everyone!
Rhys goes home.
Rhys has left.
Katerina goes home.
Katerina has left.
<OOC> Sebastien says, "Otherwise we were very well behaved puppers."
<OOC> Isolde waves.
Isolde goes home.
Isolde has left.
<OOC> Furio petpets.
<OOC> Sebastien says, "Right, going home now."
Sebastien goes home.
Sebastien has left.
<OOC> Furio heads out as well. Work in the morning. x.x
<OOC> Furio says, "Later everyone, thanks again!"
Furio goes home.
Furio has left.
Nicolette throws away her empty...whatever she was drinking....soda bottle on her way out. She pauses beside Vesta before actually departing, though, asking quietly, "All good?"
Kinfolk House - Greatroom and Kitchen(#3488RAM)

         This is the open greatroom and kitchen, with multiple tables and chairs for a small army of kinfolk to eat in peace. There is an industrial kitchen attached and open to the greatroom, not designed to be pretty and elegant, but rather one built for function of feeding the army, and possibly the army of shifters outside. Running at full capacity, the kitchen would require a team of chefs to operate. There multiple large windows that look out towards the porch, with a button next to each window to activate the 'privacy glass'. With a simple switch, the windows become impossible to see through and provide privacy in case anyone is trying to stare inside. Towards the corner of the room is a fireplace to warm up by, though the fire is natural gas, and central air keeps the house at a comfortable temprature.

         Of note, is a single staircase that leads up to the attic area, a commons for people wanting some peace and quiet to sleep. There are no beds or privacy, but sleeping bags that are better then nothing. There are a few unclaimed rooms downstairs, for permenant residents to move in and claim this as their home.

         There is a wall hanging on the wall, made of stones and gold. (+view here/wall_hanging)
         This hanging requires all rage rolls made in this house are at diff 9.

         (This room needs a Fae desc. @mail building staff if you want to provide one.)


         (This room needs an Umbra desc. @mail building staff if you want to provide one.)


         (This room needs a Wraith desc. @mail building staff if you want to provide one.)

Contents:
Bliss
Halle
Nicolette
Zeppelin
Obvious Exits:
Master Bedroom <MB>   Front Door <OUT>
<OOC> Vesta says, "ALmost back"
Bliss lingers near the doorway, staying out of the way as people make their exits. Once the majority of them are gone, she pushes off the wall and heads to the food bar to study it thoughtfully.
Vesta takes a deep breath and lets out a sigh, then gets up to go find some food to gnaw on. "Hello, Bliss. How are you doing? I haven't seen you in a bit."
Billy has voted for you.
Billy has voted for you.
Bliss taps her chin, gaze turning towards Vesta. Smile lighting her face, she says, "Oh, hey. Sorry .. er, I don't know if I remember your name, yeah? Were you at the last kinfolk meeting? There were so many people there that I hardly remember anyone's name, you know? Once upon a time, I feel like that wouldn't have been a problem but then there's the new me so things are different. Complicated. Mmn. But in answer to your question, I'm doing good. Except for the cats. They like to follow me now in town. I dunno why. Yeah. How about you? You doing okay?"
[Garou] Tech-Wiz Furio has joined this channel.
Halle goes and gets herself a glass of water, before coming back and moving over to where Bliss and Vesta are talking. "I made the last meeting but I missed out on all of the introductions," Halle says ruefully.
[Garou] Tech-Wiz Furio crawls off to bed. Thanks again to everyone who participated in the meeting!
Zeppelin comes to her feet and will hug the people, she offers one to Vesta, but doesn't go in for it. Memory serves Vesta didnt' like hugs. "I should go but you all have my contact information right?" Then she will skip out the door.
<OOC> Zeppelin says, "I have to bathe the dog and do some last minute cleaning for my move"
<OOC> Bliss says, "Hope your move goes smoothly."
<OOC> Zeppelin says, "Pray for no sudden blizzards (Missouri, I'm looking at you)"
<OOC> Halle says, "Are you moving yourself or have movers doing it?"
"Vesta. I'm Journey's mate," she tells Bliss patiently. "Do you need a cat-repellant? I've had some success with bug repellant. Cats are really just overly large bugs." And sure. She hugs Zeppelin. "Sorry I'm a bitch. Have a good night, okay? OH! I have a thing for you."
<OOC> Zeppelin says, "Self/Family"
You paged Zeppelin with 'Missouri? Where at?'
Zeppelin pages: We are going through St. Louis?
<OOC> Vesta says, "Or did I already give that to you, Zepp"
Zeppelin pages: On the way to Michigan.
You paged Zeppelin with 'Bah. Yankee territory'
You paged Zeppelin with 'That's WAY north'
<OOC> Zeppelin says, "You gave it to by /code/ but not RP yet."
<OOC> Vesta nodsnods. If you need to go, we'll do it another time
<OOC> Nicolette blahs. Falling asleep. Night, all.
<OOC> Zeppelin says, "Yeah. I have to do some last minute things and pick my sister up at the airport in 2 hours."
[Garou] <<Mocks-The-Dark>>, George says, "arooooooooooooos"
<OOC> Halle says, "Night Nicolette."
<OOC> Zeppelin says, "Thanks for RP!"
<OOC> Vesta nodnsods. Nini, Nic. Night Zeppelin
Nicolette runs off. Zoom.
Nicolette goes home.
Nicolette has left.
[Garou] Feed Me! Zeppelin jumps and ninjacat bats at George.
Zeppelin goes home.
Zeppelin has left.
[Garou] <<Mocks-The-Dark>>, George says, "where in the dead mall is the party? +hangouts says there's 6 people there and I tried to jump there earlier and couldn't find anyone"
"Vesta? Right. Journey's mate." The little redhead nods to the woman in question before turning to Halle. "Hi," says she with a cheery smile, "I'm called Bliss. Stargazer kin and kami. That's still strange for me to say on account of part of me wants to keep it secret, yeah? But .. the other part of me wants to be honest about it. Anyways, nice to meet you." Here Bliss nods before looking back to Vesta. "Oh! Vesta! I remember now. You make IDs. I could use one of those. And some cat repellant. That more than the other. Yeah."
[Garou] Giselle says, "We were hiding from you. In the theater"
Halle reaches over to give Vesta's shoulder a squeeze. "Saw the video of the howling. Adorable," Halle says with a grin. She looks back to Bliss and smiles at hearing the introduction. "Halle Kim, Kin of the Children of Gaia. And I understand what you mean, how strange it is to say. It was getting on towards three years I lived here before it became openly known I am a Kami. Are you human, then, Bliss?" Halle asks.
Vesta nods to Bliss. "Yup. That's me." Then she nods. "Sure. Come by the kin house and have someone take a good picture of you for the ID and we'll get you one set up. I'll get you a cat repellant. How about..." She looks Bliss over head to toe and grins. "How about a fire opal? Any restrictions on what you can wear or anything?" She grins at Halle and leans against her briefly. "So cute. Oh my god, Halle. Every time he hears a howl he goes off. I almost can't take him to the caern for fear of him attracting ALL the lupus kin. It's insane."
[Garou] Feed Me! Zeppelin says, "They are in the anti-George store"
Bliss inclines her head slightly to the left, studying Halle. "Hmm? I can't rightly say how long I've been here on account of my memory only goes back to this past June, yeah? But .. this -feels- like home. Well, not here. The city more than here. Yeah. I dunno if I am human or not, only that I try hard to attend these kin meetings on account of it seems so foreign to me still. I guess maybe I was? At one point? Now though? I'm something else. Like you. Yeah." She shakes her head and glances back to Vesta. Nodding to her, she continues, "I've no restrictions that way, yeah? Just food, mainly. Mmn, but a fire opal sounds about right. Would that really keep the cats away? They're kind of .. bothersome, you know?"
Zeppelin pages: I got bored in the ER. SO I would login and talk to Q. Then I'd be like.. pain drugs kicking in... sleeeepzzzzz
Zeppelin pages: Oops
Halle breaks out in a warm laugh as Vesta speaks of her son's howling. "I told Journey it won't be long before he's at the Caern joining games of Hunt the Bane with the other kids," Halle says, grinning. She looks back to Bliss then, nodding as Bliss shares that about her past. "If you would be interested in trying to find out a little more about your past... Gaia lets me look into another's heart and learn things about them. I can't say how much detail it would be, but might find something. Important connections to your past is something I sometimes sense."
Vesta nods to Bliss. "The fire opal itself won't, but I make enchantments. Magic things. Nothing offensive to the spirits or anything. Garou approved. Give me a few days and I'll drop it at the kinfolk house for you, okay?" She grins at Halle. "Oh, it'll happen. He loves to howl.. and eat his daddy's tail. Favorite games."
Bliss considers Halle's words, head slightly canted to the left. She studies the other woman before a final nod is given. "Okay," says she, not really understanding what she's agreeing to, only that it may reveal more about the time beyond her memory. Her smile softens as Vesta and Halle talk about the cub. She has a soft spot for children. "Okay. I'll pick it up sometime," says she to Vesta, not wanting to interrupt talk about the little one.
Halle has reconnected.
<OOC> Bliss says, "Do you need any reposes?"
<OOC> Halle says, "Internet died after Bliss posed"
<OOC> Vesta says, "That was last"
Halle has reconnected.
Halle has partially disconnected.
<OOC> Halle says, "There we go."
Halle gives Bliss a gentle smile and she says, "If you're not sure if you're human or not, I should also be able to tell. Though... I'd think you'd probably get some sense of that... feel instincts that aren't human... if that was the case. We can get together at the Caern sometime and try then, if you'd like."
Vesta lets the Kami talk about kami things, just listening for a moment while the player has a mental breakdown over barking animals
Bliss nods, but slowly. "At the Caern. That would work." She nods to herself again, affirming the idea. To Halle, she grins, "Okay. Well I'm down for that, yeah? But later unless you want to do it now? Er, I'm kind of plagued by cats and they might follow me there. Didn't come in here though, which is probably good. I'm not a big fan of cats. They're alright, but .. yeah, no." She shakes her head and looks to Vesta. "You have a picture? I don't think I've seen your little guy around anywhere, you know?"
Halle's nose wrinkles at the mention of cats. "Yes, cats were something I avoided," Halle says, nodding. "Vesta has a video of him, even better. The howling one I mentioned," Halle says. "I need to come by and visit, get to see how much he's grown now," the brunette says.
<OOC> Halle says, "I'm going to pop over to the Gnawer party briefly before bed I think."
"No safer place to do it than here," she says, then grins, pulling out her phone to show a video of a four month old howling along with some other wolf off screen.
<OOC> Vesta says, "That was mine"
<OOC> Vesta has a youtube video to share
<OOC> Vesta says, "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qZx8tjDK_ss"
<OOC> Bliss says, "D'aww.. So cute."
Halle has partially disconnected.
Bliss leans in to see the video on Vesta's phone. Her grin gets larger, if possible. "Aww," says she, cooing at the babe on the screen, "he's -adorable.-" Smiling to herself, she stares off into space for a moment, lost to the thoughts in her mind. Shaking her head to clear it of those errand thoughts, she looks back to the other women. "I should probably go," says she, out of nowhere, "I don't have a baby, but I've obligations too, yeah?"
Halle grins at the video. "Same here, I'm going to make a brief stop over at the Mall, though I need to get home soon after," Halle says. She offers both women a friendly hug. "Take care of yourselves," she tells them before heading out.
<OOC> Halle says, "Thanks for the scene. :)"
Vesta smiles brightly and she nods. "Sure. I'll see you again. You have fun. I'm going to get back home to my mate. And I'll get that repellant for you." She nods to Halle. "Tell everyone hi."