(hollest)

Session Start: Thursday, June 30, 2011
Bill Gates (vriska@live.de)
Machu (goobysc@gmail.com), avis (pokepokey@live.com), Hollow (smartmejs@live.com), xiaodre44@live.jp (xiaodre44@live.jp)
(6:46 PM) Hollow:	Hi. All of you are the current staff online.
(6:47 PM) Bill Gates:	hi
(6:47 PM) Machu:	um
(6:47 PM) SymboniteBieber:	ohai.
(6:47 PM) Machu:	can't
sressing out
server is dying
(6:47 PM) avis:	hi
(6:47 PM) Machu:	sorry
(6:47 PM) avis:	Basically, Brad's been demoted.
avis was added to this conversation. Handwriting is no longer supported because not all participants can view handwritten messages. Handwritten messages will be sent as text.
(6:48 PM) Bill Gates:	hi
(6:48 PM) avis:	hi.
(6:48 PM) .suicidesquad:	hi.
(6:48 PM) avis:	Brad's been demoted.
(6:49 PM) .suicidesquad:	I noticed, and truth be told the way he treated Wikipedia in that thread was a great reason to do it.
(6:49 PM) SymboniteBieber:	Wikipedia came to me.
(6:49 PM) avis:	Wow!
(6:50 PM) SymboniteBieber:	I pretty much let him rant about it.
(6:50 PM) Hollow:	I learned about it through Rachel. :/
(6:50 PM) avis:	no but really
I just got a phone call
(6:50 PM) Machu:	ok please
let me ask something
(6:50 PM) Machu:	i came on the po server today with wiki ranting about how palcks was bitching to him about something
and then
(6:51 PM) SymboniteBieber:	That's what it was.
(6:51 PM) Machu:	everyone went into a rage
over something stupid
and then i've been working on shit ever since
(6:51 PM) Machu:	and i never found out
what the heck
(6:51 PM) avis:	Basically, theres been an altercation in the Team 3 thread.
(6:51 PM) Machu:	is going on
(6:51 PM) .suicidesquad:	In the Camp threads Brad ignored Wiki's ideas, which he pretty much did with everyone.
(6:51 PM) avis:	In which Brad made wikipedia and rachel feel like shit
(6:51 PM) .suicidesquad:	Like, Brad decided to be head dictator.
(6:51 PM) SymboniteBieber:	I'm not trying bash him but, this is my take on it.
(6:52 PM) avis:	Well, some teams have decided to have leaders.
(6:52 PM) .suicidesquad:	This is all from what I saw.
(6:52 PM) avis:	So that wasn't really it.
(6:52 PM) SymboniteBieber:	I remember the good times, and it seems like, after he got Super Mod he changed ten fold.
(6:52 PM) Hollow:	Youre right.
:?
(6:52 PM) avis:	But it was more of Brad overreating and handling the situation wrong
(wait)
(6:52 PM) SymboniteBieber:	While lurking around the internet, I've seen various spammish adverts for Solstice.
(6:53 PM) avis:	itt this thread isn't to trash brad, it is to just get it straight why he's been demoted.
(6:53 PM) SymboniteBieber:	I generally don't like seeing them, because it puts a negative light on it.
(6:53 PM) avis:	chat*
(6:53 PM) SymboniteBieber:	I'm not bashing. I was going to PM it to Hollow.
>_>
<_<
(6:53 PM) avis:	No no!
im just saying
(6:53 PM) .suicidesquad:	I know, I wasn't trying to bash.
(6:53 PM) avis:	for the future of this chat
(6:53 PM) .suicidesquad:	sorry if it came off that wya
*way
(6:53 PM) Hollow:	no one's bashing in here
(6:53 PM) SymboniteBieber:	I wasn't wither.
(6:53 PM) Hollow:	there's so much going on at once
(6:53 PM) SymboniteBieber:	I'll shut up now.
(6:53 PM) .suicidesquad:	oh, okay.
(6:55 PM) .suicidesquad:	I do agree with everything that Hollow pointed out in the thread.
(6:55 PM) Hollow:	I demoted him to regular member until we decide what to further do with Brad. I'm considering either giving him Elite or Moderator.
(6:55 PM) .suicidesquad:	With his old sections? (if moderator)
(6:55 PM) Bill Gates:	he's definitely not getting gmod again
(6:55 PM) avis:	Possibly.
(6:56 PM) .suicidesquad:	I think Elite or Mod would be good, as well as a formal apology to Wikipedia.
(6:56 PM) avis:	Thats a given
(6:57 PM) .suicidesquad:	mkay.
(6:57 PM) SymboniteBieber:	So what exactly is the best position for now, so we can agree on something.
(6:57 PM)	dennydemon@hotmail.co.uk has been added to the conversation.
(6:57 PM) avis:	Elite
(6:57 PM) Hollow:	Hey VTP.
(6:57 PM) Bill Gates:	ELite
(6:57 PM) Hollow:	Elite.
(6:57 PM) .suicidesquad:	hey
(6:57 PM) avis:	he can work his way back up
(6:57 PM) .suicidesquad:	Elite works.
(6:57 PM) avis:	But the highest he's going is mod.
(6:57 PM) SymboniteBieber:	understandable.
(6:57 PM) .suicidesquad:	mhmm.
(6:58 PM) avis:
(6:58 PM) .suicidesquad:	So Elite with the restriction that he cannot be promoted to anything above Moderator, as well as a formal apology to Wikipedia?
(6:58 PM) Hollow:	Sounds about right.
(6:58 PM) SymboniteBieber:
(6:59 PM) avis:	Yup.
(6:59 PM) .suicidesquad:	Agree/Disagree
Aye/Nay
(6:59 PM) Jay:	Back up a minute. What did he do?
(6:59 PM) Hollow:	Also, move him to a different group in Camp. Obviously, Brad can't work with his current team, so I'd rather he be moved.
@VTP: See thread in Staff Lounge.
(6:59 PM) avis:	See thread in staff lounge VTP
(6:59 PM) .suicidesquad:	He can be in Team 1, we can switched Person Man or Riataro as they haven't posted in any threads yet.
(6:59 PM) SymboniteBieber:	Someone will have to PM Felly about it, unless someone has already done so.
(6:59 PM) .suicidesquad:	*switch
(7:00 PM) SymboniteBieber:	._.
(7:00 PM) Jay:	I've seen a thread. I was hoping for some more specific details.
(7:00 PM) avis:	He basically made wiki and rachel feel like crap, due to arguing. His attitude over the past week has been shit.
(7:00 PM) avis:	He also asked for AA and when denied gave us attitude.
(7:01 PM) Bill Gates:	He has brought this attitude to the forums
(7:01 PM) SymboniteBieber:	When did this take place?
(7:01 PM) Bill Gates:	and it caused this
(7:01 PM) .suicidesquad:	last Thursday.
(7:01 PM) Hollow:	June 23 until today.
(7:01 PM) avis:	The asking for AA occured during the group skype chat.
(7:01 PM) SymboniteBieber:	Ah.
(7:01 PM) avis:	His attitude has been progressively worse since then.
(7:01 PM) Hollow:	Everyone assumed that AJ would remain inactive so it became a game of who can throw who under the bus first. And yesterday I had a breakdown because of all of this shit.
And I'm done putting up with it.
(7:01 PM) avis:	Basically what Hollow said.
(7:02 PM) Jay:	Asked as in demmanded, I take it.
(7:02 PM) Hollow:	Pretty much.
(7:02 PM) avis:	The position was wanted, and two global mods went after it. Brad just went and brought it onto the forums.
(7:02 PM) Hollow:	He felt as if he was entitled to it / it was his right.
(7:02 PM) .suicidesquad:	I asked, he demanded.
(7:02 PM) avis:	He felt that he was entitled to it.
(7:02 PM) SymboniteBieber:	O_O
(7:02 PM) avis:
(7:02 PM) Bill Gates:
(7:02 PM) SymboniteBieber:	I really have missed a lot.
(7:02 PM) Hollow:	Sent a wink:
(7:02 PM) Bill Gates:
(wait)
(7:02 PM) avis:
(7:03 PM) .suicidesquad:	can we not start this smilie stuff in here?
(7:03 PM) Jay:	In Brad's defence, I don't see anything wrong with his posts in the Team 3 camp forum.
(7:04 PM) Bill Gates:	He gave Wiki attitude
(7:04 PM) avis:	Wiki was visibly upset about it.
(7:04 PM) Hollow:	Yes, but that doesn't remove the fact that he made two members in that group feel uncomfortable.
And he's a Gmod.
(7:04 PM) Hollow:	Okay if you're a member, I'll let you off with a warning, but you're a staff member.
NOT COOL YO.
(7:04 PM) avis:	And he made rachel and them were made uncomfortable.
(7:04 PM) Jay:	So is it a mod requirement to be all sunshine and rainbows?
(7:04 PM) avis:	Its just brads attitude as of late ;-\
(7:04 PM) Bill Gates:	You need to set an example
(7:04 PM) .suicidesquad:	Well, um, not to be rude or anything. But what's the difference with him doing this to a member and you guys changing Skyler's Signature?
(7:05 PM) Hollow:	You're kidding right.
(7:05 PM) .suicidesquad:	He didn't lie by saying that.
(7:05 PM) avis:	Do you want the explanation adam.
Do you?
(7:05 PM) Hollow:	If you don't know the full story, don't speak. Simple.
(7:05 PM) SymboniteBieber:	Let's calm down guys.
This isn't the time for it.
(7:05 PM) Hollow:	^
(7:05 PM) avis:	Skylers signature was intentionally provoking me and Hollow and was easy propaganda for members to start asking him questions about last summer.
(7:06 PM) avis:	Me and hollow agreed to it
Done deal.
(7:06 PM) SymboniteBieber:	Let's drop it please.
(7:06 PM) avis:	Were here to talk about brad.
(7:06 PM) .suicidesquad:	Dear god, he was just saying he was a Co-Admin. THAT IS NOT A LIE. Part of being mature is understanding the past and not let it effect yoru future. Did he say that he was trying to start shit?
(7:06 PM) SymboniteBieber:	Again this isn't the time for it.
(7:06 PM) .suicidesquad:	Okay, I'm done.
(7:06 PM) avis:	Can we please be mature?
(7:07 PM) avis:	If me and Hollow decided on it, were the administration. It's over and done with. Please, as Xiao said, drop it.
(7:07 PM) .suicidesquad:	Okay.
(7:07 PM) Hollow:	On the bright side, we're the most active we have been since last summer.
(7:07 PM) Bill Gates:	Back to Brad.
(7:07 PM) Jay:	Back to my earlier point. I disagree that he was showing attitude. All I saw was that he wanted a say in what the team were doing, which is perfectly reasonable.
(7:07 PM) SymboniteBieber:	Well...
(7:08 PM) SymboniteBieber:	If it wasn't attitude, then why did Wiki be visibly upset about it?
*become
(7:08 PM) avis:	Basically what Xiao said.
(7:08 PM) Jay:	Maybe Wiki is just overly sensitive? Ever considered that?
(7:08 PM) Machu:	wiki
was going through other crap
on the po server
(7:08 PM) avis:	The only thing is it upset Rachel too.
(7:08 PM) SymboniteBieber:	Wiki was going through more than you know.
(7:09 PM) SymboniteBieber:	And it's very complicated to upset Rachel.
She's one of the happiest people I know.
(7:09 PM) SymboniteBieber:	But, back to the point.
(7:10 PM) avis:	I do understand VTP's point, however.
If we take his point into consideration.
(7:10 PM) avis:	We should just keep him as moderator.
(7:10 PM) Jay:	It just seems like you're criticising someone for expressing an opinion over something he rightfully has a say in. He wasn't insulting anyone.
(7:10 PM) avis:	Instead of Fully demote him to admin.
(7:10 PM) Hollow:	If it gets to the point where it upsets members, there's right to apprehend him.
(7:11 PM) Jay:	I don't agree with that, though. Two people got upset over something that, view objectively, wasn't offensive. That's hardly his fault.
(7:11 PM) Machu:	Are the posts still there?
(7:11 PM) SymboniteBieber:	I've read it, and I detected sarcasm there.
(7:12 PM) .suicidesquad:	A lot of the staff have all upset me recently. By that logic, we should be demoted as well. VTP is correct, you can't please anyone. Wikipedia will get over it, and Rachel is strong and will as well.
(7:13 PM) avis:	I think we might be overeaccting a little bit?
I mean
Im starting to see VTP's point
(7:13 PM) .suicidesquad:	*you can't please everyone
(7:13 PM) Machu:	i still have no idea
(7:13 PM) Hollow:	The demotion was given until a decision would be made, yes? Nothing is concrete, hence why the discussion exists.
(7:13 PM) Machu:	what's going on
~__~
(7:13 PM) avis:	I don't think we should go as far as Demoting him to Elite.
(7:13 PM) Hollow:	After the past week, one thing's for sure, I can't see him as Global Moderator anymore.
(7:14 PM) .suicidesquad:	I do agree with that. He has became powerhungry.
(7:14 PM) Jay:	Incidentally, I'm not entirely against demotion, just the reasons for it.
(7:14 PM) SymboniteBieber:	How about a probationary period?
(7:14 PM) .suicidesquad:	and he said it himself, he feels better with more power and is selfish.
(7:14 PM) avis:	There are other people on the forums powerhungry as well, but we can't demote them.
Based off of that sole reason.
(7:14 PM) SymboniteBieber:	Who doesn't want power?
(7:14 PM) avis:	We have to have concrete evidence and more support than just "Oh they are powerhungry"
(7:15 PM) .suicidesquad:	I know, I was just saying. He has became powerhungry. I never said for that sole reason.
(7:15 PM) Bill Gates:	The real question here is who can maturely contain their want for power?
(7:15 PM) SymboniteBieber:
(7:15 PM) avis:	^
(7:15 PM) .suicidesquad:	His attitude is assholeish, he doesn't treat any newish member with respect, etc. etc.
(7:16 PM) avis:	I haven't seen him disrespect any new members.
(7:16 PM) Hollow:	I'm fine with him being Moderator. I will bring it up with him. If he choses to take the position, I will give it thim, however if he declines, he will receive Elite. Fair enough?
(7:16 PM) avis:	But thats just me.
(7:16 PM) .suicidesquad:	Aye.
(7:16 PM) avis:	Sounds good.
(7:17 PM) .suicidesquad:	Do we switch his group?
in the camp
(7:17 PM) Hollow:	That's up to Felly.
And she's gone all day.
(7:17 PM) .suicidesquad:	Okay.
(7:17 PM) avis:	That is up to Fellys discretion
(7:19 PM) Hollow:	The staff has decided to give you a position as moderator. If you choose to accept this position, you can chose up to five seconds to moderator, as per protocol. If you choose not to, you will receive Elite member.
Wow wrong chat.
Rude.
(7:19 PM) avis:	Sounds good!

(7:19 PM) SymboniteBieber:	*sections
(7:19 PM) Jay:	Be prepared for backlash after going back on your original decision.
(7:20 PM) Hollow:	The original decision was never to demote him to regular member.
(7:20 PM) avis:	We demoted him with the intent to leave it up for discussion
(7:20 PM) Bill Gates:	with every possible situation there is a negative outcome
(7:20 PM) avis:	Basically what Hollow said, and Bill likewise.
(7:20 PM) Hollow:	It's a Pokemon Forum for christ's sake, and if people want to start problems out of it, then let them do so. I can't be at fault if people have nothing better to do than to quarrel over a position on a Pokémon Forum.
(7:22 PM) SymboniteBieber:	It's power, some people respond positivly and some well not so positive.
(7:23 PM) Jay:	If that's the case then why did you start all this fuss over someone asking for a higher position?
(7:23 PM) SymboniteBieber:	You didn't understand.
(7:23 PM) avis:	We didn't start it.
(7:23 PM) SymboniteBieber:	The thing is, he caught an attitude because he was declined.
(7:23 PM) Hollow:	I didn't start it, I brought it everyone's attention. If someone's going to abuse their position, they're going to lose it.
(7:23 PM) avis:	He intetionally got caught up in his ego after asking for his position.
(7:24 PM) avis:	He called me and Hollow assholes
for not giving him AA
And you should never do that.
(7:24 PM) SymboniteBieber:	And bought the attitude to the forums.
(7:24 PM) avis:	Anyone that begs for a position and asks for one with attitude should be embarassed and should get reprocussions.
(7:25 PM) Jay:	Yeah, a simple "no, don't ask again" and cooling off period.
(7:26 PM) avis:	But the thing is, he did not cool off.
(7:26 PM) Jay:	How long did you give him?
(7:26 PM) avis:	He continued to display his attitude towards Felly in an awfully rude post he made in the camp thread on July 24th.
He displayed attitude to both me and Hollow privately.
(7:26 PM) Jay:	By calling you an asshole? Or was there more?
(7:27 PM) SymboniteBieber:	Either way, it was unprofessional.
(7:27 PM) avis:	He called me and Hollow assholes, then later went on to be rude to Felly on the forums. Due to it bein private, I do not have the right to disclose this information on the side of either party.
(7:27 PM) SymboniteBieber:	Think of it this way.
(7:27 PM) SymboniteBieber:	You have a job, and would you tell your head supervisor an asshole to their face?
(7:28 PM) Jay:	Unprofessional? This a forum. A mere hobby.
(7:28 PM) avis:	You would get fired on the spot
We still have to maintain a professional atmosphere
(7:28 PM) SymboniteBieber:	We as staff, need to make it seem professional.
(7:28 PM) avis:	Because if brad is allowed to mouth of, who knows what will happen.
(7:28 PM) SymboniteBieber:	We want member to feel like they belong.
(7:28 PM) Hollow:	And as far as I know, two of our most dedicated members felt unwelcomed.
(7:29 PM) Jay:	Sorry if I sound insensitive, but as far as I know, those two member just over-reacted to a differing opinion.
(7:29 PM) SymboniteBieber:	Well...
(7:29 PM) Machu:	invite me back when i get back on plz
(7:29 PM)	Machu has left the conversation.
(7:29 PM) avis:	While I do agree with that, theres more behind it.
(7:29 PM) SymboniteBieber:	If you know Rachel.
(7:30 PM) SymboniteBieber:	She doesn't overreact.
(7:30 PM) SymboniteBieber:	Unless it's, overly rude, and she reacted.
(7:30 PM) avis:	Either way, its not based off of that thing on the forums.
Well, entirely.
Its based off of his attitude towards all of us, which went on to the forums.
(7:31 PM) Bill Gates:	Brad is no longer fit for the global moderator position.
The events leading up to this chat have shown this.
That is why he is getting demoted.
(7:31 PM) SymboniteBieber:	Well, it's that the administration sees it differently than you.
They saw, they retaliated.
(7:32 PM) Jay:	I just think the administration over-reacted, is all.
Somebody called you an asshole? Big whoop.
(7:32 PM) SymboniteBieber:	Ok.
Back to my point before.
(7:32 PM) avis:	I can agree on some aspects, but I can't agree with all of it.
(7:32 PM) SymboniteBieber:	Whould you call your supervisor an asshole to their face?
(7:33 PM) Hollow:	There was much more behind this demotion than just what happened with the Camp.
(7:33 PM) Bill Gates:	You understead the whole scope of the situation.
*You don't
(7:33 PM) SymboniteBieber:	The same thing applies here.
(7:33 PM) avis:	Basically, most of this demote was based of off private conversations.
(7:33 PM) Bill Gates:	*understand
(7:33 PM) Jay:	Does he do his job? Is he an active member of your community?
(7:33 PM)	Machu has been added to the conversation.
(7:35 PM) Bill Gates:	There is much more that you're not aware of.
(7:35 PM) Jay:	Like what?
(7:35 PM) avis:	This information is being only disclosed to the Administrators.
(7:36 PM) avis:	Due to the fact that they are the ones directly involved.
(7:36 PM) Jay:	In that case, what's the point in having a discussion with the rest of your mods, when the only information available is only what you want them to hear.
(7:37 PM) avis:	There are logs in which Brad attacked me but I cannot disclose anything further due to the fact that is is private. We also have suspicion that Brad is attempting to form a sort of "avisism v2" for any of you that remember that from last summer. Those are out true worries. Thank you.
our*
(7:38 PM) Machu:	I honestly this this should be an executive decision anyway, since the two admins know the most on the situation
(7:39 PM) .suicidesquad:	Ignore anything I said, Admins can make this choice.
(7:39 PM) Hollow:	A questionable democracy.
(7:39 PM) avis:	A questionable staff chat.
(7:40 PM) Machu:	I just don't see how the rest of the staff can make any kind of decisions
without knowing what's really going on
I'm not saying
(7:40 PM) Machu:	that you should disclose anything private
(7:40 PM) .suicidesquad:	I'm with Machu.
^^^^
(7:40 PM) Machu:	just saying that if you know the most about it
you make the decisions
(7:41 PM) Hollow:	At the same time, if we just demoted him ourselves without tell you at least what's going on, would that be fair?
I don't think so.
(7:41 PM) avis:	While I do agree with that, what is publically known is that he begged for a position, called us out on what was done and insulted us, has been giving shit attitude over this the entire week, and fially cracked.
(7:41 PM) Hollow:	Hence why I posted the demotion message. That is what needs to be known.
(wait)
(7:41 PM) Bill Gates:	(wait)
(7:41 PM) Machu:	and yet we don't know the entire story, so we don't know how truely bad/not so bad the situation is
(7:42 PM) Machu:	js
adaskjhdlaksjdl wait
(7:42 PM) Bill Gates:
(7:42 PM) Machu:	wtf am i arguing for
(7:42 PM) avis:	waiit
(7:42 PM) Machu:	srsly, what are we arguing over?
(7:43 PM) avis:	This chat was derailed, pretty much
(7:43 PM) Machu:	um yeahhhhhhh
(7:43 PM) avis:	This was for us to give you an understanding of it.
(7:43 PM) Bill Gates:	The purpose of this chat was to decide what position Brad would take.
(7:43 PM) Hollow:	This chat has no purpose anymore. We've decided that Brad is now Moderator, and that's done.
(7:43 PM) avis:	And basically what bill and hollow just sai.
(7:43 PM) Machu:	mmmmk
(7:43 PM) .suicidesquad:	Okay.
(7:43 PM) Machu:	we done
(7:44 PM) Bill Gates: