[HueGhost is having a text-message argument with two nazis, Shiftless has been providing links to videos talking about fascist indoctrination techniques]

HueGhostLast Saturday at 12:13 AM
Should I send them these things you’re sending me? Also is there hard proof and data that this “white genocide” and “collapse of Europe” is a myth. I don’t care if one of them is native to Europe, it’s not an excuse to be a tyrant and kick someone out of the country for their race.

It still makes me cringe when they say they don’t date blacks “for various reasons” but Asians are euro ppl are fine. I wonder why? It is cause how Asian countries glorify whiteness and they want an Asian “waifu” to praise them all day or?

Shiftless ProleLast Saturday at 12:13 AM
i mean, you can feel free to send them whatever, but it really will not make a difference
the fact that all this stuff is proven to be bullshit doesn't matter to them
i really cannot stress this enough

GatleosLast Saturday at 12:14 AM
White genocide just disappears when you start properly defining your terms, nothing to prove beyond that

Shiftless ProleLast Saturday at 12:14 AM
it does not matter if you can prove them wrong or not
they do not care
you are not dealing with people who have rationally gathered information and built a worldview based on that information
you cannot change their worldview by knocking the supports out from under it
you cannot reason someone out of a position they did not reason themselves into

GatleosLast Saturday at 12:15 AM
Feel free to argue with them for fun though

Shiftless ProleLast Saturday at 12:15 AM
basically that
you can keep arguing if you think it's interesting, or if other people are listening and you think you might be able to reach them
but these people are beyond convincing

HueGhostLast Saturday at 12:15 AM
ugh, I guess I’d just let them ramble on about their stupid Nazi myths.

Shiftless ProleLast Saturday at 12:15 AM
they haven't just sipped the kool-aid they've fucking chugged the entire thing

HueGhostLast Saturday at 12:16 AM
I’m still trying to get him into Vaush tho cause he’s still interested by him

Shiftless ProleLast Saturday at 12:16 AM
if reason worked against fascists nazi germany would never have happened
it doesn't
even sending them the video i linked won't actually do anything, because it isn't telling them anything they don't already know
they just unironically and knowingly agree with the nazi
there is no reconciliation with that, there is no convincing them to change their minds, there is no fixing something that never worked in the first place
it sucks
it really does
but it's true

HueGhostLast Saturday at 12:18 AM
I’m disgusted at how many Nazis have become so popular ever since Trump’s been in office. It’s nasty and it’s infecting the youth. So many teens I know are into this shit. If we get them on the right track, we won’t have a next generation of genocidal maniacs

Shiftless ProleLast Saturday at 12:18 AM
one hundred percent agreed
but once someone has already been pulled that deep into the nazi bullshit, there's no dragging them back out
you don't get that far in without deciding that you want to be a nazi more than you care about being correct and factual
if you have friends who are still confused about things, you can work with them and try to pull them back from the edge
but i have to stress this point: facts and logic are not enough, because, again, fascism is not based on reason and thus does not care if it is entirely wrong and irrational
as much as we want to OWN the CUCKSERVATIVES with FACTS and LOGIC
what you need when dealing with this is rhetoric
backed up by facts and logic, but rhetoric all the same

HueGhostLast Saturday at 12:20 AM
It’s weird cuz he’s genuinely a kind good person but he’s gullible to Nazi propaganda. A lot of it has to do with insecurity from what I’ve seen come out of his mouth. He’s very contradicting because fashies/tradcons/etc wouldn’t like the fact he’s bisexual and crossdresses and dates Asian girls. That’s a big mess

Shiftless ProleLast Saturday at 12:21 AM
yep, again
it doesn't actually matter if the rest of the fashies would eat him alive if they knew he was a "degenerate"
you can point that out all you want, it doesn't matter
it's not a rational position
it is a fundamentally anti-rational position

HueGhostLast Saturday at 12:22 AM
How do I get better at rhetoric? I just want to save him and his friends from a pitfall of agony and Nazism.

Shiftless ProleLast Saturday at 12:23 AM
well, that's where it gets tricky, because rhetoric is very much based on appeal to emotion rather than just reciting facts and pointing out logical inconsistencies
the general idea, though, is to know what makes this worldview seem appealing to a given person in the first place
broadly speaking, fascism/racism/ethnonationalism have a degree of appeal because they suggest that the adherents have intrinsic value that makes them better than whatever the outgroup is
they don't have to do anything but be in order to be considered valuable - they're part of the "master race" or whatever, they just are better
so it appeals very much to people who, like you said above, are feeling insecure about themselves
i would honestly recommend reading up on cult indoctrination and extrication techniques, because there are a LOT of similarities in the way they operate
someone vulnerable and feeling down about themselves finds a group that is willing to tell them that they are intrinsically valuable and special, because they are "courageous" enough to adopt the views that everyone else is too cowardly to take
before long their entire identity is wrapped up in the things that this group tells them to define themselves by
this is what makes extrication almost impossible once someone has fully chugged the kool-aid
by this point, a huge part, or even all, of their self-worth and self-identity are wrapped up in this
in order to bring them out of it you have to fundamentally alter the way they think about everything
which is an extremely difficult and unreliable process even for people trained in dealing with this sort of shit

HueGhostLast Saturday at 12:28 AM
He keeps mentioning “ppl r ooga booga apes! We’re tribal!” whenever I snag him and his friends on their racist ideals. Is this the tribalism excuse?

Shiftless ProleLast Saturday at 12:28 AM
this is why the priority is on watching people around the fashies and trying to prevent them from being pulled in as well
i mean, yeah
in their heads, everyone is tribal, deep down
lefties are just in denial about it
(a big part of cult indoctrination is in placing outsiders into boxes labeling them as people who secretly acknowledge the truth of the cult's beliefs but are refusing to actually accept them for one reason or another)
and because everyone is tribal, inter-tribe conflict is normal and acceptable
and obviously some tribes are better than others

HueGhostLast Saturday at 12:30 AM
(That’s a good thing I don’t have any feelings of tribalism then cuz it’s not the Bronze Age anymore :flushed:)

Shiftless ProleLast Saturday at 12:31 AM
but yeah you will note that fascists have a huge habit of doing things like accusing their opponents of being secret jews, or muslims using that "you can lie to outsiders" rule or whatever
if you are flagged as someone that they cannot recruit, you are outsider'd, and you thusly become part of the above "people who know we're right but have their own sinister agenda" category

HueGhostLast Saturday at 12:32 AM
When I and my friends were going to expose an evil child exploitation page on Instagram, we saw a picture of the two CEOs of the brand and they thought two white as snow people were Jews. Like wtf :skull:

Shiftless ProleLast Saturday at 12:32 AM
yep
this is why it always comes back to the jews
the meme about them being the archetypal outsider is already established
it isn't hard for any fascist movement, or similar, to grab onto that and use it as a ready-made box to shove the outsiders into

HueGhostLast Saturday at 12:34 AM
The CEOs didnt even look like their caricature of a Jew. It’s literally a white af white woman and a white man. No “hook nose” or “curly jew fro” or “Jew locks”. They got sucked up in that Nazi dogma quick

Shiftless ProleLast Saturday at 12:35 AM
mmhm
because it's easy
this is another part of the cult/fascist appeal
the worldview it offers is incredibly simple and draws very simple, distinct lines and categories to sort things into
once you bite, it becomes incredibly easy for you to just automatically make those sorts of assertions as a default reaction to things you don't like
it's easy, it provides a ready-made explanation for things you don't like, and it's actively encouraged
the more "aware" you are of the evil jewish conspiracy, the more enlightened you appear within the movement
you get more positive reinforcement, more of your self-worth becomes tied up in it as a result, etc. etc.
self-reinforcing feedback loop

HueGhostLast Saturday at 12:39 AM
I live in a state where it’s mostly CUCKservative so most of the youth here listen to ppl like Steven Crowder, Ben Shapiro, Soph (if ur really off the deep end), Paul Joseph Watson, Lauren Southern, etc. So there’s going to be a lot of cringe where I live.

Btw, what’s with the Asian girl and black girl fetishism in Nazism? It’s super weird and gross.

Shiftless ProleLast Saturday at 12:40 AM
two kinds of racism basically
it's gross as fuck but the basics are
"white women are becoming degenerates but asian women are meek submissive sex dolls, just like women should be"
and
"black women are unevolved primates but that gives them a sort of animal sex appeal and they should be 'conquered by white seed'"
like i said it's gross af
and there's nuance to it depending on the individual because no two racists are exactly alike
but that's the basic idea
fetishization of the idea of white males being able to take whatever women they want, "exotic" women having in-built appeal, etc.

HueGhostLast Saturday at 12:43 AM
Ive seen some insecure Nazi boys hate on black men but then turn around and lust for black women, either in an aggressive racist manner or a passive “sweet” fetish racist manner. And for Asian dudes, Nazis berate them too but then their weaboo side kicks in and crave for an Asian “waifu”.

Shiftless ProleLast Saturday at 12:43 AM
yep
and, again, some of it comes back to being insecure
a lot of these dudes aren't very successful with women
and this ideology offers them easy answers: black men are stupid but hypermasculine and all women are degenerate sluts, hence they will always go for black guys over good, proper white men
shit like that
it's an easy explanation for why they can't get laid that doesn't require them to reflect on the idea that it might have something to do with them, personally
(it also adds another layer of binding into the group, because now their only sense of sexual self-worth comes from the fact that they consider themselves to be inherently desirable due to race)
(so the idea that white men aren't inherently better is now an attack on their sexual ego as well)
you have probably also noticed another consistent issue by this point as well
"the enemy" is simultaneously weak and strong, pathetic and terrifying
black men are subhuman apes but they still threaten the purity of the white race because women are degenerates
jews are pathetic slimy cowards but they control the world government
etc. etc.
whites are the master race but they are beset on all sides by insidious enemies who are intrinsically inferior but seek to undermine their "superiors" through underhanded tactics
you can see how that feeds into everything i've mentioned already, so
yeah
that's a thing

HueGhostLast Saturday at 12:49 AM
Yes I’ve noticed that pattern heavily.
Like how Western Civilization is strong but somehow collapses when a group of women twerk in a dance studio
It’s weak but strong at the same time. How contradicting

Shiftless ProleLast Saturday at 12:50 AM
yep

HueGhostLast Saturday at 12:51 AM
If Western Civilization is ruined because a woman dances lewdly, it wasn’t strong to begin with

Shiftless ProleLast Saturday at 12:51 AM
fascist movements are held together pretty much exclusively by the feeling that its in-group is under constant attack, but what defines the in-group is its supposed inherent superiority
so you end up with this pseudo-contradiction
which isn't actually a problem because, again, fascists don't care if their worldview is self-contradictory

HueGhostLast Saturday at 12:53 AM
It all just boils down to jealousy, inferiority, insecurity and lack of power that they once held on the world? Correct?

Shiftless ProleLast Saturday at 12:53 AM
pretty much
for most of them, at least - those in the actual leadership roles may lean more towards "i'm just riding the wave of an easy-bake political movement to the top"
which doesn't absolve them, obviously - exactly the opposite - but does mean that you have to take into account that there are at least some fascists who know they're spouting bullshit and are just doing it to keep the untermensch in line

Chappie Trap HouseLast Saturday at 12:55 AM
"The followers must feel humiliated by the ostentatious wealth and force of their enemies; however, the followers must be convinced that they can overwhelm the enemies. Thus, by a continuous shifting of rhetorical focus, the enemies are at the same time too strong and too weak."

Shiftless ProleLast Saturday at 12:55 AM
and to clarify on an earlier point: fascists do not care if their worldview is false or self-contradictory, but it's not like they have sat down and said to themselves "i know this is bullshit and i don't care"
they simply don't think about it
fascism is designed to make it easy not to think about it
and if they are forced to think about it, it's easier for them to simply ignore the contradicting evidence and keep doing what they were already doing
you might get them to admit that something is bullshit one day but they'll spout that some defeated point all over again the next time the topic comes up

HueGhostLast Saturday at 12:58 AM
I have a friend irl who has a bf who indoctrinates himself with Nazi and homophobic videos (yes these are religious Christian teens. Christianity and Paganism keep clashing together with Nazism, weird). They keep saying off comments like “they like how Aryan they look” and things of that nature. They think Soph was wrongfully banned off YouTube and “the leftist liberals want to censor us”. The youth are sounding like fundamental boomer Christians and it’s not looking good.

Shiftless ProleLast Saturday at 12:59 AM
it's really not, no
i honestly think we may have already passed the point of no return, but that doesn't mean you stop fighting it
if you've got the choice to go down in history as someone who fought the nazis or someone who just sat there and gave up
well
i know which one i'd rather be

HueGhostLast Saturday at 1:03 AM
It’s funny how the fundamental Christians around me keep saying the “lgbt agenda”, feminism, and any type of social progress is going to destroy America (and the whole world) but it’s really starting to look like it’s them who keep turning it into shit with their hierarchical ideals.

Shiftless ProleLast Saturday at 1:04 AM
i mean, you could remove the "starting to look like" and you'd be 100% on point ye :V
but anyway it's 1 in the fucking morning where i am and i need to get my ass to bed
cheers my dude, good luck with however you choose to deal with those fashies