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Tuesday, 16 November 2010
12:58 AM - ^Aragon: hey
12:58 AM - ozfortress wm: hey
12:59 AM - ^Aragon: you actually busy or you have time for a little chat?
1:00 AM - ozfortress wm: im really busy finishing an RFP
1:00 AM - ozfortress wm: feel free to spam me and i'll answer where possible
1:01 AM - ^Aragon: ok
1:03 AM - ^Aragon: My chat my be trivial or whatever but i've been taking alot of notice with MGE and how the NA scene of TF2 has been developing. From what i can tell, it is dominated by ESEA and poor runiing ship. THe scene has no real hub and the player base is very trollish like Australian tf2.  (Like most games) I've also noted that AUS tf2 as of late has been slowly dieing. With about 30 teams on ozfl and 32 in total in owl i'd say there is 40 teams in AUS in total compared to a year ago there was 80-100.
1:03 AM - ^Aragon: So i've been doing a bit of research around pub servesr to find interested players ect. (Some of them have quite the potential) ALOT of them have played pubs and alot of them have  (joining a team i'm creating for div4) some experience but no one to guide them
1:04 AM - ^Aragon: Alot of the div4 teams are very secluded teams that don't take outsiders and the majoirty of the new players that come in are on the back end of teams from Cybergamer or pub. Current ozfortress teams/players don't accept new pub players (even though so of them are better then them)
1:05 AM - ^Aragon: I'm yet to work this out but it confuses the hell out of me
1:05 AM - ^Aragon: Why they won't. Maybe because the group they've formed is the group they keep ect.
1:05 AM - ozfortress wm: its not easy, we have been debating it for a while now
1:05 AM - ^Aragon: As i see it
1:05 AM - ^Aragon: Next owl will be lucky to get 4 divisions
1:05 AM - ^Aragon: 3 easy
1:05 AM - ^Aragon: 4 hmm
1:05 AM - ^Aragon: dno
1:06 AM - ^Aragon: Its the same players recycling through the same proccess. I swear i've been the only player/leader who actually takes interest in div3/4 level players and brings them up
1:06 AM - ^Aragon: Which is trivial to the problem
1:06 AM - ^Aragon: It feels like that div1 has stoped
1:06 AM - ^Aragon: Div4 = a team of fun guys out for a smashing
1:07 AM - ^Aragon: div3 wants to get better but is lacking the player / base skil (and some teams are starting to). Div2 are the div1 players who want to muck around other then the div3 players who moved to div2.
1:07 AM - ^Aragon: ANd the teams get to div1 and go this is boring
1:07 AM - ^Aragon: and stop
1:07 AM - ^Aragon: Clan - A- is easily beatable
1:07 AM - ^Aragon: no where near one of the best teams of tf2
1:07 AM - ^Aragon: neither is rewound
1:08 AM - ^Aragon: its just the community lacks the want to improve. It lacks the new players to spice the community up
1:08 AM - ^Aragon: New unlocks hats and gabbage don't change this
1:08 AM - ^Aragon: if anything they hinder new players getting good at the game
1:10 AM - ^Aragon: It feels hopeless. IT even feels like the admins have given up except valk (Whos a machine). Though from what i can tell all of them have MASSIVE busy real life stuff occuring. The new website which was suppose to be released early 2010 obviously got canned
1:10 AM - ^Aragon: Umm It just feels like the game is dieing
1:11 AM - ^Aragon: No incentive to improve and i know ALOT of players are starting to look for alternatives so its only going to get worse
1:11 AM - ^Aragon: Only people who want to stay are the ones who just there to muck around and ahve a good time. AKA we-re, foxy ect.
1:12 AM - ^Aragon: Anyways my rant probably sounds pretty degrading and negative
1:12 AM - ^Aragon: But i've been meaning to post something but i thought it was best to spam it out in private
1:14 AM - ^Aragon: Oh and while my rant goes on (TF2 in the pub scene hasn't changed since the game was released i don't think)
1:14 AM - ^Aragon: Numbers playing blah
1:14 AM - ^Aragon: ect.
1:14 AM - ^Aragon: ITs still the same
1:14 AM - ozfortress wm: 3 problems. 1. pubbers sometimes try to get into the comp scene only to land in a 1week clan. once the clan dies it loses interest. 2. pubbers dont want to play comp. simple as that. 3. people need an enemy. the typical enemy of a pubber is a progamer. eod
1:15 AM - ^Aragon: yes but i can join a server say blah is recruiting and have 4 people add me wanting a spot
1:15 AM - ^Aragon: out of those 4 people 1 person is worth it
1:15 AM - ^Aragon: thats all it takes
1:15 AM - ^Aragon: ozfortress has become segregated
1:16 AM - ^Aragon: I heard of ozforteress through GA
1:16 AM - ^Aragon: when i first started playing TF2
1:16 AM - ^Aragon: I have a group of 13 players which i decided div4 level with a brain on a list in my friends list
1:16 AM - ^Aragon: from 5 pub sessions
1:16 AM - ^Aragon: thats how many players are out there
1:17 AM - ^Aragon: And i reckon i could get them to div3 before owl6
1:17 AM - ^Aragon: a bunch of pubbers
1:17 AM - ^Aragon: And most of them have played pugs
1:17 AM - ^Aragon: none of them played in teams
1:18 AM - ^Aragon: and most admited that they were scared off from ozfort because it was elitest OR they posted and no one showed any interest
1:18 AM - ^Aragon: (because they were a pubber)
1:20 AM - ^Aragon: So with that fun, more interesting competitions could be created. Eg. Scout 2vs2, an MGE dueling competition, ect. With FRIENDS who signup being pooled together in the starting rounds which they then move upwards. EG. Friends[1,2,3,4...20] form 10 teams. They join a 2vs2 scout competition. Instead of being randomy put with someone like rep and solus they get put with tehre friends at the start.
1:20 AM - ^Aragon: And out of the friends one team will be left which then moves on
1:20 AM - ^Aragon: and plays proper teams
1:20 AM - ^Aragon: and stuff like that
1:20 AM - ^Aragon: There are heaps of smaller communitys around that run competitions like that
1:20 AM - ^Aragon: redit
1:21 AM - ^Aragon: boage
1:21 AM - ^Aragon: and they stay in those community sbecause those communitys portray ours as being bad
1:21 AM - ^Aragon: and those players learn to hate us
1:21 AM - ^Aragon: and vise versa
1:21 AM - ^Aragon: ozfortress learns to hate those shitters
1:26 AM - ^Aragon: Also the website says 707 active members. Thats 70 teams + the people who are in teams who don't even go to the website
1:27 AM - ^Aragon: That means half the community hangs around ozfortress
1:27 AM - ^Aragon: but doesn't even play
1:27 AM - ^Aragon: WHy?
1:27 AM - ^Aragon: Is it because its the biggest troll center of AUS?
1:27 AM - ^Aragon: I have no idea
1:30 AM - ozfortress wm: im going to slowly answer
1:30 AM - ozfortress wm: 1:06 AM - ^Aragon: Its the same players recycling through the same proccess. I swear i've been the only player/leader who actually takes interest in div3/4 level players and brings them up
not true, i have facilitated a few teams in being mentored by someone somewhere. other players help but they dont take credit for it
1:31 AM - ozfortress wm: not allowed to type
1:31 AM - ozfortress wm: while im reading
1:31 AM - ozfortress wm: type ok wm
1:31 AM - ^Aragon: ok
1:32 AM - ozfortress wm: 1:08 AM - ^Aragon: New unlocks hats and gabbage don't change this
thats true.... but the unlocks arent for the comps
1:33 AM - ozfortress wm: 1:10 AM - ^Aragon: Umm It just feels like the game is dieing
it is dying, for you thought
1:33 AM - ozfortress wm: though*
1:33 AM - ozfortress wm: there is a list of players that are shit in your eyes but in their own right they are improving
1:33 AM - ozfortress wm: a year ago, all the div1 players would be vomiting at all you div1 goons today... you guys are much much worse than them
1:33 AM - ozfortress wm: its the cycle of any game
1:34 AM - ozfortress wm: the skill scale goes down... you want to know why?
1:34 AM - ozfortress wm: you are getting older..............
1:34 AM - ozfortress wm: as gamers get older... their time becomes more restricted
1:34 AM - ozfortress wm: their aim starts to decrease as well and they just don't have the time commitment to keep it up....
1:34 AM - ozfortress wm: every game suffers from this but we have a healthy cycle of players
1:35 AM - ozfortress wm: right now its abit tough because of exams and what not
1:35 AM - ozfortress wm: it will pick back up in feb next year
1:35 AM - ozfortress wm: just in time for the new owl and ozflan
1:35 AM - ozfortress wm: we also will be launching ultiduo (which already has international respect) and that will introduce 10% more players
1:35 AM - ozfortress wm: the incentive you talk about is gone because we just arent running ngri/f6i anymore
1:36 AM - ozfortress wm: and if you ask the admins they will say the ngri/f6i was a bad idea..etc but the stats were good. when we ran those comps we had stable clans and a steady income of new players
1:36 AM - ozfortress wm: i personally don't have the time to run another tournament and nor do i have enough respect for the current div1 to bother
1:37 AM - ozfortress wm: i spent most of my weekend with nerfed/pvh and haymo
1:37 AM - ozfortress wm: what you are crying about is what we spoke up the whole time
1:37 AM - ozfortress wm: everyone has their own perspective
1:37 AM - ^Aragon: NGRi was the best competition that was held. (Just had to say that sorry)
1:37 AM - ozfortress wm: nah thats cool
1:37 AM - ozfortress wm: im done
1:37 AM - ozfortress wm: i just didnt think it would be possible for me to type over you
1:38 AM - ^Aragon: lol
1:38 AM - ozfortress wm: yeah i loved ngri
1:38 AM - ^Aragon: foosh was meg
1:38 AM - ^Aragon: meh
1:38 AM - ^Aragon: but NGRI was the beast
1:38 AM - ^Aragon: foosh didn't have enough teams
1:38 AM - ozfortress wm: i have enough energy to run a lan next year and ultiduo but thats it
1:38 AM - ozfortress wm: im going to haggle valve some more after ultiduo
1:38 AM - ^Aragon: I've been looking at running a competition like that but it would get shut down pretty quick.
1:38 AM - ozfortress wm: so next season we'll have more to offer
1:38 AM - ozfortress wm: why?
1:39 AM - ^Aragon: Because of the way the community is pushed towards the casuals
1:39 AM - ^Aragon: If i created a vanllia 8vs8 double elimination tounament
1:39 AM - ^Aragon: with maybe medic unlocks only
1:39 AM - ^Aragon: it would get shut down
1:39 AM - ^Aragon: so i just don't bother
1:40 AM - ozfortress wm: ye it would
1:40 AM - ozfortress wm: less is more right now
1:40 AM - ozfortress wm: going large won't help
1:40 AM - ^Aragon: sorry 6vs6
1:40 AM - ^Aragon: not 8vs8
1:40 AM - ozfortress wm: i have 20 minutes till my deadline, bbl
1:40 AM - ^Aragon: ok
1:40 AM - ^Aragon: was suppose to be 16 teams
1:41 AM - ^Aragon: For when you get time to read
1:41 AM - ^Aragon: ozfortress wm: 1:06 AM - ^Aragon: Its the same players recycling through the same proccess. I swear i've been the only player/leader who actually takes interest in div3/4 level players and brings them up
not true, i have facilitated a few teams in being mentored by someone somewhere. other players help but they dont take credit for it
ozfortress wm: not allowed to type
ozfortress wm: while im reading
ozfortress wm: type ok wm

Ye i understand that but do they take on random players and recruit them into a team and bring them up. Or do they attempt to mentor them. Eventually get bored with it then move on. (Just like the menotoring program)
1:42 AM - ^Aragon: ozfortress wm: 1:08 AM - ^Aragon: New unlocks hats and gabbage don't change this
thats true.... but the unlocks arent for the comps

My understanding from whats being pushed this envioronment is what is wanted. 50 new unlocks so players can find new and wonderful ways to jew a medic.... (Medic must suck now)
1:42 AM - ^Aragon: ozfortress wm: 1:10 AM - ^Aragon: Umm It just feels like the game is dieing
it is dying, for you thought
ozfortress wm: though*
ozfortress wm: there is a list of players that are shit in your eyes but in their own right they are improving

Ye i understand this. ALIVE, ROFLs, Ruffians (who haymo took on) and thats about it from what i can tell.
1:42 AM - ^Aragon: ozfortress wm: a year ago, all the div1 players would be vomiting at all you div1 goons today... you guys are much much worse than them
ozfortress wm: its the cycle of any game

I agree ^ Div1 now is shit
1:42 AM - ^Aragon: rewound + clan-A- = DIV1
1:42 AM - ^Aragon: rest no
1:45 AM - ^Aragon: ozfortress wm: you are getting older..............
ozfortress wm: as gamers get older... their time becomes more restricted

I still play more 60+ hours a week. No different rofl
Actually i spent the past week dueling for the majority of it. I put hours into improving uprising who i reckon next OWL we have a chance at coming 5th in AUS. Also been working on ways to help improving like automation of servers ect. ALso been creating a second uprising team from scratch of pure pubbers to try and mentor them up. WHen i start working i will have even more time. Monday - Friday 7 hours a day to waste away :) 2 hours of scrims 5 hours of helping.
1:45 AM - ^Aragon: ozfortress wm: it will pick back up in feb next year
ozfortress wm: just in time for the new owl and ozflan


Owl1 - 60 Applications
Owl2 - 49 Applications
Owl3 - 46 Applications
OWL4 - 38 Applications
1:45 AM - ^Aragon: Dieing
1:45 AM - ^Aragon: And i remember NGRi was like 80 teams
1:46 AM - ^Aragon: Bit of stuff (My predicition is about 32-33 applications for owl5)
1:46 AM - ^Aragon: ozfortress wm: the incentive you talk about is gone because we just arent running ngri/f6i anymore
1:46 AM - ^Aragon: I agree
1:46 AM - ^Aragon: But there are other ways to go about this
1:46 AM - ^Aragon: I'm happy to dedicate my time to run a competition like one of these after this THURSDAY but i don't see a want for a competition like this
^Aragon is now playing Team Fortress 2. Click here to join.
ozfortress wm is now playing Team Fortress 2. Click here to join.
2:18 AM - ozfortress wm: server died?
2:18 AM - ^Aragon: ye
2:18 AM - ozfortress wm: fffffffffff
2:18 AM - ^Aragon: u going to duel me?
2:18 AM - ^Aragon: ozfortress needs one :)
2:19 AM - ^Aragon: either that or ipgn needs to extend tehres to 12 players
2:19 AM - ozfortress wm: nah
2:19 AM - ^Aragon: cause 8s not enough
2:19 AM - ozfortress wm: ye ill chase that
2:19 AM - ^Aragon: The GamersUN one gets used alot
2:19 AM - ^Aragon: also
2:19 AM - ^Aragon: its 16 slots
ozfortress wm is now playing Team Fortress 2. Click here to join.
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2:21 AM - ^Aragon: MGE gives me something to do between scrims :)
2:21 AM - ^Aragon: its fun as
2:22 AM - ozfortress wm: ye its good fun
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