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AceOfArrows

Mario 3 All-Stars Losses

AceOfArrows
Jan 1st, 2017
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  1. Time Lost in Warpless to Playing All-Stars
  2.  
  3. So it's often-commented that "playing Mario 3 on All-Stars is slower than it is on NES." You're told you're gonna lose time, that you simply can't achieve the kind of time you could if you just went ahead and played the NES version. And it leads you to question - question things like "is it really slower?," "why is it slower," or "how MUCH slower is it?" And for the most part, the response generally used to be "uuuuhhhhh...", which doesn't really tell you anything. Some people knew a number for the "Mario Start!" designation, but didn't show how the numbers added up, and nobody counted a lot of the other time differences between the two versions, leaving the picture incomplete, and leaving peoples' questions largely unanswered.
  4.  
  5. Today, we DEFINITIVELY answer the question "just how much slower is it really?" Here's a pretty exhaustive list of notable speed differences between the NES and All-Stars versions of Mario 3, along with all the numbers to let you know how much slower it is and why.
  6.  
  7. The example used is a mediocre-luck warpless run where you play through all 8 worlds.
  8.  
  9. "Mario Start!" = 1.43 Seconds Per Occurrence
  10. --------------------------------------------
  11.  
  12. There is an unskippable "Mario Start!" in every stage of the All-Stars version of Mario 3 - and that version of the game counts not only numbered and non-numbered stages, but also hammer brothers and castles (airships), as things it needs to pin this onto.
  13.  
  14. This was timed in both versions using the time between frame of input to enter an action scene, and the last frame where Mario can't yet move once entered (time you're FORCED to wait until you have control again).
  15.  
  16. This time window is 89 frames (1.483 seconds) on NES, and 175 frames (2.916 seconds) on All-Stars, for a difference of 86 frames (1.43 seconds) lost in EVERY stage, just for playing on All-Stars, without you even making any mistakes.
  17.  
  18. (For the purposes of this paste, it makes zero difference whether you use your extra cloud on 8-1 as I do, or for 7-9, the difference is identical.)
  19.  
  20. 10.01 / W1 (7 Items) - 1-1, 1-2, 1-F, 1-5, 1-6, HB, 1-A
  21. 12.87 / W2 (9 Items) - 2-1, 2-2, 2-F, 2-3, 2-D, 2-5, HB, 2-P, 2-A
  22. 14.30 / W3 (10 Items) - 3-1, 3-2, 3-3, 3-F1, 3-4, HB, HB, 3-8, 3-9, 3-A
  23. 14.30 / W4 (10 Items) - 4-1, 4-2, HB, 4-3, 4-4, HB, HB, 4-6, 4-F2, 4-A
  24. 17.16 / W5 (12 Items) - 5-1, 5-2, 5-F, HB, HB, 5-ST, 5-4, 5-5, 5-7, 5-F2, 5-8, 5-A
  25. 15.73 / W6 (11 Items) - HB, 6-F1, 6-4, 6-5, HB, HB, 6-F2, 6-8, 6-9, 6-F3, 6-A
  26. 12.87 / W7 (9 Items) - 7-1, 7-2, 7-3, 7-F1, 7-6, 7-7/8, 7-9, 7-F2, 7-A
  27. 12.87 / W8 (9 Items) - 8-T1, 8-N, HT, HT, 8-AF, 8-2, 8-F, 8-T2, 8-BC
  28. -------
  29. 110.11 seconds, aka 1:50.11 lost - you lose nearly TWO ENTIRE MINUTES just to "Mario Start!" designations in a typical warpless run. (And again, that's before you even make any mistakes!) And if you die, you have to count one of these *again*. But we aren't done yet.
  30.  
  31. Door Transitions = 0.65 Per Door
  32. --------------------------------
  33.  
  34. Oh yes, there's a door open/close animation in All-Stars that you don't see/hear in NES. This was timed similarly to the above, from frame of input to enter the door, to the last frame where Mario can't yet move once he's on the other side (again, time you're FORCED to wait until you have control again).
  35.  
  36. This time window is 52 frames (0.86 second) on NES, and 91 frames (1.516 seconds) on All-Stars, for a difference of 39 frames (0.65 second) lost for every single door you have to go through.
  37.  
  38. It's important to note that this does NOT apply in All-Stars to doorless frames, which behave similarly to the NES version's doors, producing no meaningful impact on time loss; this only counts for door frames that have an actual door on them.
  39.  
  40. - / W1 (0 Doors) <Invisible door in 1-F is doorless, frame only.>
  41. 1.30 / W2 (2 Doors) 2-F (1), 2-P (1)
  42. 1.30 / W3 (2 Doors) 3-F1 (2)
  43. - / W4 (0 Doors) <No doors are used, whether you skip 4-F1 or not.>
  44. 0.65 / W5 (1 Door) 5-F1 (1) <Lot of pipes in world 5, but actually very few doors.>
  45. 2.60 / W6 (4 Doors) 6-F1 (2), 6-F2 (1), 6-F3 (1) <The vertical room's door is a doorless frame.>
  46. 0.65 / W7 (1 Door) 7-F1 (1)
  47. 2.60 / W8 (4 Doors) 8-F (2) <2 of the 4 doors you go through are doorless-frame P-Doors>, 8-BC (2)
  48. ------
  49. 9.10 seconds lost just to having to use a few fancier doors in the run.
  50.  
  51. Wands = 2.65 Per Fall to Throne Room
  52. ------------------------------------
  53.  
  54. In addition to all this, for some reason, Mario takes longer to decide to fall to the throne room in All-Stars after each wand grab. This was timed from first frame Mario is seen holding on to the wand, to the frame the first letter of the thank you message from the king appears. Now, this is slightly variable, given timer tally, but the variance is only up to a few frames; I timed using wand grab on world 1's airship with Mario standing on the ground to collect the wand (so he's definitely at the same height in both versions of the game). Anyway, this time window is 1,096 frames (18.26 seconds) on the NES version, but it's 1,255 frames (20.916 seconds) in the All-Stars version, meaning you're wasting 159 frames (2.65 seconds) per world you complete.
  55.  
  56. With 7 throne rooms you're expected to sit through in a warpless run, in total, you're wasting 18.55 more seconds in a run waiting to talk to the king in All-Stars than you would on the NES version.
  57.  
  58. How It All Adds Up
  59. ------------------
  60.  
  61. * You're already 10.01 seconds behind as of wand grab in world 1, and +12.66 by the time you get into world 2.
  62.  
  63. * In world 2, you waste 14.17 more seconds mid-world, so you're +26.83 over possible NES time by the time you have Morton's wand in your hand, and you're +29.48 by the time you see world 3's map - you've only played 2 worlds, and have already lost half a minute just for playing All-Stars.
  64.  
  65. * In world 3, you lose another 15.6 seconds on your way to Wendy, making you +45.08 when you recover Wendy's wand. You're +47.73 by the time you get to Big Island.
  66.  
  67. * In world 4, your version choice loses you another 14.30 seconds, making you +59.38 at the time you take Iggy's wand - you've already lost almost an entire minute throughout your run by now, and falling through the sky puts you at +1:02.03 before you see Sky World.
  68.  
  69. * In world 5, you leak another 17.81 seconds, putting you at +1:19.84 over possible NES time when you get the wand back from Roy. Meeting with the king puts you at +1:22.49.
  70.  
  71. * In world 6, you see your biggest loss yet; 18.33 seconds puts you at +1:40.82 beyond what you could've had on NES when you take Lemmy's wand. Going to see the king widens this to +1:43.47.
  72.  
  73. * In world 7, another 13.52 seconds goes out the window, meaning you're at +1:56.99 when you grab Ludwig's wand. Spending extra time falling puts you at +1:59.64 - you've now lost 2 minutes overall.
  74.  
  75. * Finally, in world 8, you kiss another 15.47 seconds goodbye before you make it to Bowser; the cumulative total time loss of your warpless run, just because you wanted to play a prettier version of Mario 3, is +2:15.11.
  76.  
  77. N-Spade
  78. -------
  79.  
  80. If you're new to the game, you're probably playing N-Spade at least once to give yourself some insurance items - and woe is you if you're doing this on the All-Stars version of the game, because unlike the NES version, you're forced to wait while the match fanfare sounds before you can move again.
  81.  
  82. I timed this from the frame of input to flip a card, to the last frame I didn't see the cursor move again yet while buffering a directional move (both versions allow you to do so).
  83.  
  84. On NES, when your flipped card makes a match, the waiting time is only 24 frames (0.4 second) before you can move to another card, since you don't have to wait for the confirmation ding to finish. But in All-Stars, anytime you make a match, you're forced to wait 110 frames (1.83 seconds) for the fanfare to finish before you're allowed to move again, for a difference of 86 frames (1.43 seconds) wasted for every match you make - and when there are 9 matches to be made on the board - all of which you're making if you're using a reference to make sure you nail them all - you're wasting 774 frames, or 12.9 seconds, more on playing N-Spade on All-Stars than you would for playing it on the NES version - and that's just fanfares.
  85.  
  86. The time you must wait to flip another card *without* matching it is different in both versions as well; in NES, it's 24 frames, the same as the time you wait when the card *does* match. But in All-Stars, you wait 29 frames, which is a 5-frame difference. So every time you flip a card over in All-Stars, you lose another 5 frames. There are 9 matches on the board, so you flip 9 cards such that they don't match; you lose 5 x 9 = 45 frames, or 0.75 second flipping non-matching cards.
  87.  
  88. So between waiting for fanfares and spending more time flipping cards over, you waste at least 12.9 + 0.75 = 13.65 extra seconds of your life on N-Spade in All-Stars than you do playing it on NES, and that doesn't even count the time you spend determining and actually playing out the pattern you have (board navigation), since you seldom move only one spot to get to the next card you need to flip.
  89.  
  90. So, you can safely assume you're probably wasting at least 15 extra seconds playing N-Spade on All-Stars; if you play N-Spade, take that 2:15ish extra mentioned above, and add ANOTHER 15 seconds for every game of N-Spade you play in your run to further tally your actual total losses.
  91.  
  92. Last Word
  93. ---------
  94.  
  95. Granted, these impacts are worse on a 100% run, and very much mitigated in Warps%, but this should hopefully drive home the point of just how much slower it actually is to play All-Stars than it is to just play the NES version.
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