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JaysonSunshine

RenaissanceMan and TrollT engage the intolerant

JaysonSunshine
Aug 12th, 2019
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  1. RenaissanceMan 16:02:08
  2. Unless of course there are meta-gods.
  3. + TrollT 16:03:01
  4. What are "meta-gods"?
  5. RenaissanceMan 16:03:02
  6. If you're going to throw a god wave into Schroedinger's equation you may as well toss in a couple of extras extra explanatory
  7. ... for extra explanatory power.
  8. + TrollT 16:03:31
  9. RenMan, Spoilsport, how will you confirm the meta-gods when you aren't confirming the gods?
  10. RenaissanceMan 16:03:48
  11. TrollT: The god of god. The creator of gods.
  12. + TrollT 16:04:05
  13. RenMan, As a premise almost all the theists forbid that solution to their fallacies.
  14. RenaissanceMan 16:04:28
  15. Caleb: I think if you can't tell the difference, it doesn't really matter.
  16. TrollT: Except for Turtles all The Way Down. Famously.
  17. + TrollT 16:05:15
  18. RenMan, That one doesn't usually undergird someone's gods.
  19. "Oh my god was built by Turtles All The Way Down!"
  20. RenaissanceMan 16:05:57
  21. TrollT: Fair point. That's more to do with keeping earth from falling into the abyss. Which turned out not to be a problem in t
  22. he end.
  23. + TrollT 16:06:31
  24. Gods requiring a creator wasn't a problem either; and therefore everything needing a creator, either, but theists haven't caught up with that one yet.
  25. → doomed_ has joined
  26. ⓘ Profound gives voice to doomed_
  27. ← doomed has left (SVSKilled: Ghost command used by [email protected])
  28. + TrollT 16:07:36
  29. Caleb, Fallacious, however, and then their god requires a god.
  30. + innit 16:07:37
  31. Theism is a public IQ test.
  32. ⓘ doomed_ is now known as doomed
  33. + TrollT 16:08:27
  34. Caleb, Why not consider everything uncreated?
  35. RenaissanceMan 16:08:36
  36. Personally, honestly, i suspect they've managed to create a perfect mathematical model of what happens when all you've got is photons to ping things with. A complete solution to the problem of all possible ways to get from here to there given either a position or a velocity at the start and either a position or a velocity at the end.
  37. Caleb: But that's not a popular speculation. It really kind of looks like it to me.
  38. + TrollT 16:09:19
  39. Caleb, Not strange at all; it is a supposition that things were created (no evidence), and thereafter we may suppose that the god needs a creator.
  40. Fen 16:09:45
  41. “The prayer preceding all prayers is this: May it be the real I who speaks. May it be the real Thou that I speak to.” - C.S. Lewis
  42. + innit 16:09:47
  43. It's unethical to chat with Caleb.
  44. + TrollT 16:09:47
  45. Is "obviously created" equating to "it exists"?
  46. RenaissanceMan 16:09:55
  47. Caleb: That the QM equation describes what a universe looks like when all you've got is photons to ping things with.
  48. + innit 16:09:56
  49. He linked to a propaganda website.
  50. + TrollT 16:10:04
  51. Caleb, Evidence to support that?
  52. + innit 16:10:13
  53. Spreading propaganda is a crime against humanity.
  54. → CozmoBozo has joined
  55. + innit 16:10:38
  56. A person who spreads propaganda has a mixture of being quite dumb and/or quite evil.
  57. ⓘ Profound gives voice to CozmoBozo
  58. 16:10:47
  59. * TrollT has played that game (Cards Against Humanity)
  60. + innit 16:10:49
  61. Asking such a person how the universe was created seems incredibly foolish
  62. + TrollT 16:11:16
  63. innit, Please stop evaluating other debater's characters.
  64. RenaissanceMan 16:11:17
  65. Caleb: That being said, it seems to me that.... either (1) the universe really is random, or (2) the universe is so chaotic that not even an infinitely powerful omniscient being would waste his precious eternity trying to come up with concrete solutions to the equation.
  66. + innit 16:11:24
  67. TrollT: Why?
  68. TrollT: Is holding people accountable for their speech a good thing?
  69. + Karma 16:11:41
  70. Maybe what exists has always existed and always will in some form or another
  71. RenaissanceMan 16:11:53
  72. Caleb: I disagree. That one's easy.
  73. + TrollT 16:11:55
  74. Caleb, So you are unsure what constitutes evidence of anything having been created whatever?
  75. 16:12:25
  76. * innit watches two smart people engage a known dishonest human on complex questions while ignoring a smart and honest person
  77. + TrollT 16:12:31
  78. Caleb, The theory of the event of a cataclysmic explosion does not explain origins, just movement.
  79. + innit 16:12:34
  80. Now, clearly, that's a psychological flaw
  81. + Karma 16:12:35
  82. Perhaps has been many big bangs
  83. + TrollT 16:12:51
  84. Caleb, Your search for evidence is waning.
  85. + innit 16:12:59
  86. It shocks me.
  87. Caleb linked to globalresearch a few days ago.
  88. This is a known propaganda website.
  89. And, today, you're giving him no consequences for that action
  90. And entertaining how a propagandist thinks the universe was created.
  91. + TrollT 16:13:36
  92. Caleb, I'm examining evidence for any sourcing whatever. Do you have any evidence which gives us reason to think anything whatever was ever created?
  93. + innit 16:13:39
  94. It's incredibly unethical
  95. 16:13:51
  96. * TrollT also ignores innit.
  97. + Karma 16:14:09
  98. cyclic universe
  99. + innit 16:14:09
  100. According to PolitiFact, the Centre "has advanced specious conspiracy theories on topics like 9/11, vaccines and global warming."[8] Foreign Policy notes that the Centre "sells books and videos that 'expose' how the September 11 terrorist attacks were 'most likely a special covert action' to 'further the goals of corporate globalization.'"[22] A 2010 study categorized the website as a source of anti-vaccine misinformation.[23] The Atlantic Council's Digital Forensic Research Lab described it as "pro-Putin and anti-NATO".[26] The Jewish Tribune described the Centre as being "rife with anti-Jewish conspiracy theory and Holocaust denial."[27] Writing for the New Republic, Muhammad Idrees Ahmad, Lecturer in Digital Journalism at the University of Stirling, describes the Centre's website as a "conspiracy site".[24]
  101. + TrollT 16:14:21
  102. Hi Karma, sounds keen.
  103. + innit 16:14:24
  104. TrollT: I put you on ignore.
  105. I will start ignoring you more aggressively, as you behave incredibly unethically at times.
  106. + Karma 16:14:53
  107. Not my theory TrollT, belongs to Sir Rodger Penrose
  108. + TrollT 16:14:58
  109. Caleb, You seem to be reasoning things out, rather than examining for evidence and concluding what would be evidence of a thing having been created.
  110. + innit 16:14:59
  111. Global research spread literal denial of the Holocaust.
  112. + TrollT 16:15:06
  113. Karma, Neat, whoever dreamed it up.
  114. * 16:15:09
  115. Ignoring TrollT
  116. + Karma 16:15:17
  117. lol
  118. + innit 16:15:20
  119. So,Caleb linked to a website that spread anti-holocaust propaganda.
  120. As well as many, many other types of propaganda.
  121. And you give him no punishment for that.
  122. You are tolerant of that.
  123. But, me, who is intolerant of people who spread anti-holocaust propaganda, as is consistent with Popper, that you're intolerant of.
  124. As I'm going after their "character".
  125. The Holocaust killed millions of human beings.
  126. And a key component of neo-Nazism is denial of the Holocaust.
  127. And that person, you tolerate.
  128. That is shockingly, woefully, incredibly unethical.
  129. ← CozmoBozo has left (Quit: )
  130. RenaissanceMan 16:16:37
  131. Caleb: The correct conclusion is "therefore one or more things must have begun to exist without being created".
  132. + innit 16:16:55
  133. "If you are neutral in situations of injustice, you have chosen the side of the oppressor. If an elephant has its foot on the tail of a mouse and you say that you are neutral, the mouse will not appreciate your neutrality."
  134. rm: What do you find missing about my argument.
  135. As it, apparently, isn't persuading you.
  136. What did I miss in my argument about Caleb amplifying anti-Holocaust and other profound conspiracy theories as a basis for punishing him by ignoring?
  137. This would be a peaceful, non-violent way of resisting behavior incredibly injurious to our societies.
  138. Are his insights into how the universe was created by repeating Jewish mythology you'v heard 500 times before in your life just too alluring?
  139. RenaissanceMan 16:19:43
  140. Really the only concluson yuo can make abuot that is that the hypothesis that "if it exists it must have been created" is wron
  141. g.
  142. + innit 16:20:11
  143. It's just shocking.
  144. + Karma 16:20:28
  145. Abrahamic religions are all faith based
  146. RenaissanceMan 16:20:51
  147. Caleb: Obviously incorrect because it leads to a paradox.
  148. + innit 16:20:54
  149. People are so desperate to experience the psychological satisfaction of refuting ideas they've refuted 500 times before to constrain themselves and any desires they may have.
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