Shenmue - 2:25.56 run thoughts & breakdown

Commentary of "Shenmue 70 Man Battle speedrun in 2:25.56 by Richard Payne [New World Record!]"

2:25.56 by Richard Payne – New World Record: https://youtu.be/g9YlKeTsQK8
2:26.23 by Thats Me! Karl - Previous World Record: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zpvFU-0QWBM
2:32.90 by Richard Payne - Previous Personal Best: https://youtu.be/sj0FAxRiqDs

This is not the first sub 2:30 run ever performed, as that honor goes to fellow runner Karl, with his brilliant 2:29 run being the main motivation behind my attempts. During this time, Karl has also further improved his time to 2:26, proving sub 2:30 is definitely possible with enough luck and skill. Still pretty hard though!

Even with that, after losing multiple WR pace runs to terrible RNG at the final segment, I was starting to consider the idea of just throwing in the towel and move on. That didn’t sit well with me though, and I decided to persevere, hoping I could make it happen someday.

On March 16th, I finally succeeded in my mission with an unbelievable 2:25 run, over 7 seconds faster than my previous best (the most time saved since I started posting my runs), and just barely faster than Karl’s 2:26 record time.
The run is overall solid, with only a few mistakes here and there and a new 66 defeated Best Known Time of 1:57.43, a ridiculously fast performance which I’m proud to have achieved in a WR run. Unfortunately, the last segment kind of ruins the final time, due to both bad RNG and me screwing up a couple of inputs, which prevented this run from reaching an even crazier time, but honestly… I’m just glad I was finally able to get past the sub 2:30 goal.

So… where do we go from here? Without a doubt, SUB 2:20 has to be the next big goal! It is absolutely in the realm of what a human can achieve, something this run also perfectly demonstrates, but I think I don’t need to go into detail on why that’s going to be an insanely difficult task.

For now, SUB 2:25 is going to be my next goal, but I’m in no rush to make it happen. Karl is also trying his best to do it, and I suspect he will get it before I even start going for it. I guess we’ll just have to see what the future holds for the 70 Man Battle speedrun scene!

Now, let’s take a closer look at the run, highlighting each segment it’s made of. First, a split comparison between my previous best time (2:32.90), Karl’s former record (2:26.23), and my new record (2:25.56).

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||||| RUN SPLITS ||||||
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||||| Old 2:32.90 VS Karl’s 2:26.23 VS 2:25.56 New WR Run |||||

・0:36.13 VS 0:35.66 VS 0:33.26 [21 defeated]
・0:45.23 VS 0:48.80 VS 0:44.06 [BOSS 1 defeated]
・1:23.60 VS 1:22.70 VS 1:17.00 [40 defeated]
・1:33.13 VS 1:26.36 VS 1:22.83 [BOSS 2 defeated]
・1:56.66 VS 1:47.23 VS 1:41.60  [53 defeated]
・2:20.23 VS 2:06:30 VS 1:57:43 [66 defeated]
・0:12.67 VS 0:20.03 VS 0:28.13 [VS Pedro & minions]
・2:32.90 VS 2:26.23 VS 2:25.56 [Final Time]
・0:07.34 from previous personal run; 0:00.67 from previous record [Time saved]

0-20 DEFEATED: The definition of a perfect start. I make zero mistakes and insta-defeat everyone in my way, plus I get a favorable pattern in general and good luck against the guys near the barrel (2 KOs with 1 move). I just barely manage to defeat an extra opponent before Shingo’s cutscene, which I believe is faster than just going for Shingo directly and then having to deal with an extra guy later.

BOSS 1: Overall solid fight, with the 3 Demon Drop chain perfectly executed. If I had to nitpick, I’d say I wish I got the insta-Demon Drop instead of getting hit*, but it doesn’t really cost much time, like 1 second at worst.

* When I say “Insta-Demon Drop”, I mean performing the first Demon Drop without letting Shingo attack first. Unfortunately, I’m 99% sure it’s mostly dependent on RNG, since Demon Drop won’t work if Shingo decides to go for the running kick (happens in the run), or if the alignment is not good enough (hard to tell since the camera won’t show where Shingo is).

22-40 DEFEATED: Yet another perfect segment, or should I say almost, because it’s where input delay starts screwing me as usual. For example, at 3:50 I obviously didn’t want to use Tiger Knuckle, but either Rising Flash or Sleeve Strike. Unfortunately, the game likes to drop directional inputs from time to time and you always need to be ready with a backup plan. In this case, I realize what happened and salvage it with Rain Thrust, losing almost no time at all.

Now, the biggest BS has to be at 3:56: I press the Run button to run towards the guy with red pants, then input Rising Flash, but somehow not only does Ryo not run at all, the game thinks I’m still holding the Run button, drops my forward arrow input, and only reads the double down arrow input… the result is Ryo starts running away from the opponent and immediately performs a back punch*, which also misses, and I lose a couple of seconds for no reason. That’s at least my theory on what may have happened. Not a big deal anyway, since I save it with a perfect Cyclone Kick that gets rid of 3 opponents at once! I end the segment with one Shadow Reaper just before Sato’s cutscene starts, to try and get as close to him as possible for the upcoming Wall Glitch technique.

*That’s just one of the many ways you can lose your run. I wonder if input delay is also a thing on original hardware or it’s an emulator exclusive thing. I don’t remember this being such a problem on the HD remaster, but honestly, I haven’t played it in such a long time, I might be misremembering. It’s one thing to keep in mind when thinking about which version you want to play the 70 Man Battle time trial on.

BOSS 2: Despite using Shadow Reaper to get closer, I’m still slightly too far from the ideal zone you want to be for the Wall Glitch, so I try and push Sato forward with the punch combo. The idea was to throw 3 punches, then go for the glitch, but guess who’s back? Input delay. The 3rd punch never happens (?) and I don’t react in time, which is why I stand still and just take the blow like a champ. :P

Thankfully, Sato uses probably the best move he could have used, because that specific attack doesn’t mess with the alignment required for the wall glitch, meaning I can still save the run. I push him forward with Big Wheel, then duck and execute the glitch. Alignment is just barely good enough to get the damage glitch and Sato is history! Damn, that was close!

41 – 52 DEFEATED: Now, this is yet another beautifully played segment! Perfect gameplay with zero hesitation and smooth execution. The final Rising Flash launching the guy far enough to barely hit the last guy was the cherry on top! Just wow.

53 – 66 DEFEATED: I think the video speaks by itself, another crazy segment! I really capitalize on Rising Flash’s special property of being able to send enemies flying against other incoming enemies, saving crucial seconds for the final time. I also get pretty lucky with the enemy spawns and the hat dudes’ behavior (those guys that have a high chance of blocking moves), so I can’t deny I got super lucky here.

66-70 DEFEATED (BOSS 3 & MINIONS): 66 defeated in 1:57.43 is just out of this world, the fastest run ever played up to this point… but there’s still Pedro and his minions to beat, and these guys have already killed multiple WR pace attempts in the past.

Unfortunately, as much as I’m proud of the 53-66 defeated segment, I make one single mistake – I misjudge when Pedro’s cutscene is going to start, and input Shadow Reaper way too soon, preventing me from getting even closer to Pedro.
That puts me in a very tough situation: I’m still too far from where I’d like to be when facing Mr. Big, he’s also leaving the “Wall Glitch” area I need for the damage glitch, and I’m surrounded by his minions, who can attack all at once if they want to. The scenario looked so grim and troublesome, I honestly thought the run was dead, just like the rest of them.

I decide to go for an incredibly risky starting move, using Crawl Cyclone instead of Cyclone Kick. The glitch zone is far and it wouldn’t be wise to go for the “Cyclone Kick + Dark Moon + Tiger Storm” chain, plus I was afraid Cyclone Kick would miss or I’d end up getting hit by one of Pedro’s BS moves while Ryo was recovering (Crawl Cyclone recovers much faster).

Now, you may be wondering, why is that riskier? Well, It’s because after any of these boss cutscenes end, the camera is not guaranteed to be in the same direction and may be completely different. That will 100% throw you off, you won’t have enough time to realize which directional inputs you need to press in accordance to the new camera angle, and before you know it, the run is dead. To put it in simpler words: if the camera changes after the cutscene ends, and you go for a move that requires directional arrows, chances are something will go wrong.

What do you know? Something does go wrong. Camera is the same, I go for Crawl Cyclone… and I get Thunder Kick instead. DAMN YOU INPUT DELAY! That could have easily killed the run, but luckily Ryo is smart enough to hit the first guy (who survives the kick because the first one does a pitiful amount of damage) and then switch target to Pedro, dealing free damage to him as well.

Now, if you watch very carefully at 5:02 after I hit Pedro with Thunder Kick, you may notice Ryo performs a step backwards and Pedro goes for his BS elbow strike, but misses. That’s literally me preventively doing that just in case he’d go for the Elbow Strike. Yes, Pedro trolled me so many times I can sometimes “feel” what he’s going to do. lol

I instantly punish him with Windmill + Rain Thrust, pushing Pedro in the perfect glitch zone. Too bad he goes for the worst move he could have used, his “spear” charge attack, which ruins the entire alignment. WHY PETROLL? WHY?
From here, everything goes wrong. I go for Tiger Storm despite being in the wrong area and alignment (hoping to get lucky), but I get Sweep Throw instead, which Pedro escapes from… all of a sudden, I’m surrounded. I think I go for Rising Flash but somehow I trigger Swalllow Flip (?) and that seems to also throw Pedro’s AI off for a small second. lol

I try and set up the glitch, but he immediately attacks me with his 3-punch combo, which I react to with Swallow Flip (for real this time!) to again try and bring him in the glitch zone. I go for Dark Moon, but the guy on the right side ruins the setup by hitting me and I’m caught completely off guard by that. Pedro goes for his Drop Kick and I just don’t react in time.

Time is hasting and I have one final chance to save the run from death. I go for Cyclone Kick in a very specific angle to try and hit both Pedro and one of his minions, then go for the wall glitch setup. I chain a double Dark Moon to push Pedro in the right area, and since I’d already used the move before, I figured he would block the second Dark Moon (AI usually insta-blocks your move if you use it more than twice), but… that’s where the miracle happens! Not only does he not block or dodge it, I also pull off the Wall Glitch and finish him off with Crawl Cyclone! I then make quick work of the remaining couple, and for a matter of pure luck, I get a quick KO for the 70th guy, allowing me to just barely beat Karl’s WR time! Had I got the usual KO animation, the final time would’ve been at least 1 second slower. It’s like the game gave me all the luck I didn’t get in my previous attempts in this one run.

Now, the Pedro fight might have “ruined” this run’s potential (could have been a sub 2:20 with a faster fight), but I honestly feel like I didn’t make any glaring mistakes. It was just a very awkward situation and I was somehow able to reach the end in time.

That about covers everything I wanted to talk about. Still can’t believe it’s finally here…
If you have any questions, or just want to share your thoughts, feel free to let me know on YouTube, X, or the Shenmue Dojo forums. Until next time, see ya!

- Richard