Cholei: What do you think of the #MeToo  trend?
Sucula: It's being credited to the wrong person for one, but it shouldn't have to take women coming out about and reliving their stories of assault to be listened to
Sucula: And for there to be reform
Sucula: Well, men as well, but mostly women in this case tbh, because it took one man to come out against Kevin Spacey before his career was done, and Weinstein and Co. have had women coming out agaisnt them for years but I guess you need 30+ before something happens. And as Jane Fonda put it, 30+ white women tbh..
Sucula: It's necessary and heartbreaking and unnecessary at the same time
Cholei: I believe it's undermining the law system.
Sucula: We shouldn't have to do THIS much to be heard, but they love thinking that everyone is doing it for money when only 2-8% allegations are false.
Cholei: Twitter, has become the tool of judgement and the news is the judge.
Sucula: Without twitter/ig the men resposible for beating DeAndre Harris with poles and sticks wouldn't have been caught
Cholei: Then the system is failing and should be changed.
Cholei: But Twitter is on the loose and you say one name and he will get nailed upon the cross.
Sucula: And wouldn't this be the beginning of it??
Sucula: Rightfully so.
Sucula: They're rapists
Cholei: Not at all.
Sucula: Multiple people have had run ins with them
Cholei: You're guilty when proven so.
Sucula: Shouldn't we be more concerned about how people are scared to come out in fear that they'll be prosecuted and come down upon harder than the person who assaulted them?
Cholei: When the jury/judge makes a verdict and says the suspect is guilty, then you can nail him to a cross.
Cholei: Not before that. It's unright and it's pretty much unlawful as well. But it is happening nonetheless.
Sucula: And not concerned about how these people's careers are rightfully being taken away from them because they are rapists/child molesters?
Sucula: It's not unlawful cause they're not beng sent to prison without a trial
Sucula: They're not being doxxed
Sucula: They're being exposed for being RAPISTS
Sucula: RAPISTS do not need to have careers and have that power over people
Cholei: It's not even proven yet.
Sucula: They should be removed from positions of power because that plays into why they RAPE
Sucula: So 12+ people against Kevin Spacey and 40+ against Weinstein are lying?
Cholei: Could be.
Sucula: All of those people, who for the most part are successful, are lying?
Cholei: Could be.
Sucula: People like you are the reason why victims do not come out
Cholei: The only trial there is, is the law.
Sucula: Because no one ever fucking believes them. You love stats so much, 92-98% of accusations are TRUE. That is an overwhelming amount
Sucula: VICTIMS HAVE TO COME FORWARD before there is anything that can be done
Cholei: Calm down and be rational, even for one moment.
Sucula: 100% of accusations need to be listened to and followed through
Cholei: Ofcourse.
Sucula: None of those people have anything to gain by saying this about any of these men
Sucula: Because they are already pretty wealthy and successful
Sucula: They have careers
Sucula: And they came forward.
Cholei: But everyone is basing it on a 100 signs text message on twitter.
Sucula: I am very calm and being very rational
Sucula: No they are not. They are basing it on the accounts of these men and women coming forward
Cholei: Not at all, Because if you were, you would understand my point.
Sucula: None of these actors or producers have gone to jail yet, even though charges have been pressed against some.
Cholei: If a police officer is not listening to a woman who claims to be raped, then he should be removed from office. You can only change something like this, if you do it structurally, not through twitter.
Sucula: And it starts through people causing an uproar about it
Cholei: Doesn't that prove it has been structurally wrong from the beginning?
Sucula: You think the force  is gonna change that themselves? there are cops getting off for killing unarmed people on camera, and getting paid leave while they handletheir own rape accusations
Sucula: Change does not happen quietly
Sucula: The problem is not just the judicial system
Sucula: The problem is men in positions of power thinking asserting sexual dominance is okay. And, yes , it happens with women as well, and there is a stigma attached to that that needs to be address. However, I'm speaking about men. The shit that Weinsten and Co get away with is based in this idea of boys will be boys, it's a part of the business
Sucula: Men who hold power over these men, women , and children using that power to make advances on them KNOWING they can't do much about it.
Sucula: It's not only an issue that needs to be adressed judicially. It's a societal issue.
Sucula: And this societal issue of masculinity and what it means needs to be addressed. Rape culture and toxic masculinity can't JUST seek reform in court.
Sucula: People need to realize this is wrong and start to change
Cholei: What my question is: Why wasn't this raised in the beginning? Quit your job. Punch him. But don't let him do it, because that's when they start to think it is normal. Call the police if he even touches you the first time. Even kill him if you must. But I feel like because it happened once and the victim didn't step forward, they started to think it was normal.
Sucula: And what better way to do that than through social meda.
Sucula: media*
Cholei: And the only way to change this. Is rehabilitation centres and a change in society.
Sucula: The problem with just say no is that you guys think it stops there.
Sucula: And it doesn't
Cholei: "You guys". Talking about putting in a box.
Sucula: There's fear associated with this kind of assault.
Sucula: There's the fear of being killed if you try to fight back.
Sucula: There's the fear of being overpowered
Sucula: The fear of being shamed
Sucula: The fear that you'll be blamed and not the abuser
Sucula: And those fears are valid  because they've all happened
Cholei: Doesn't the rapist have the same fears? To a certain extend, since they are most likely mentally ill.
Sucula: A rapist would be scared of what?
Sucula: Getting caught?
Sucula: Saying they're mentally ill is not holding them accountable.
Cholei: That's what's wrong with the judicial system in your country.
Sucula: And anyone who rapes or commits an act of sexual assault has no right to be afraid.
Cholei: In my country, when people are not accountable for their crimes, meaning they are mentally ill, they get sent into TBS.
Sucula: Because you're assaulting someone else for the sake of having power over them
Cholei: Which is a system that treats mental illness. Same like a prison, but then with treatment.
Cholei: What these people have, is a wrong world image and self image.
Sucula: Again, this thing about rape cannot only be addressed judicially. I understand the flaws in my country's prison system, but it doesn't apply to my argument. Now pause and please read and understand what I'm saying before you respond.
Cholei: It does, because you don't seem to understand my entire point either.
Cholei: I understand your point that twitter is needed as a lighter to spark the change.
Cholei: BUT THERE IS NO NEED TO SHOUT IN CAPSLOCK AT ME. IT WON'T COME ACROSS AS POLITE OR INTELLIGENT.
Sucula: Excuse me.
Sucula: A, that was an instant that happened many minutes ago, and it was used for emphasis.
Sucula: B, I'm not finished.
Cholei: Neither am I, really.
Cholei: You see, in the Netherlands we have the most interesting case.
Cholei: We have 4 guys who claim to be raped by a producer. The producer says it was all willing.
Cholei: The producer has lost his job and it spit out by the world, but how does he prove it was willing?
Cholei: He can't.
Cholei: How do they prove it was unwilling? They can't.
Cholei: Because it's 4 v 1. It becomes assumable that he did it. But the worst advisor is not fear, but assumption.
Cholei: Aside of that, there are no strings attached to Twitter nor any treatment for the suspects. For all they care, they could be in Russia by now.
Sucula: Rape culture is a societal issue. The justice system cannot control the coded language and accepted behaviors that perpetuate it. Simple things such as classifying terms such as "grab her by the pussy" as locker room talk, or by telling women that they need to dress a certain way so they don't get raped instead of telling boys not to rape. Allowing this idea of women as objects to flourish. Police can't stop that from happening. Then, when it does happen, you get the police questioning the assaultee about what they were wearing or why they were out that time of night. Irrelevant questions. When a woman speaks out, she is osracized and ridiculed by those saying she's a whore, she fucks many men, so how can she be raped. She's doing it for money. She's ruining that man's life. The police can't exactly stop people from saying that either. So when you're constantly blamed for the actions of men instead of men being held accountable, the abuse becomes normal. The abuse becomes your fault. The police can't fix that. It's a societal issue. It's why women wait to come out. If you read any of the accounts against Kevin Spacey, a few of them say how they made light of it to normalize it only to realize it wasn't normal at all. We're taught to belive this is what happens. We're taught that consent is black and white, when it is not. So when we are guilted or threatened into consent, we think that it can't be assault because we said yes, even though that yes was still taken by force. But all the police need to her is "She said yes." The police can't fix it all. It's a societal issue first. They won't get charged until people feel more comfortable coming out or fighting back. And hopefully no one will have to be charged because we'll slowly tear down these ideas of boys will be boys and girls need to be on guard through awareness and advocation through social media platforms.
Sucula: Also, all of this coming out has lead to rape charges formally filed against a few of them. Weinstein has charges in I believe two states and London.
Cholei: Exactly, but I'm afraid of this uproar not having the follow-up it needs to see this through. That's what I'm trying to get across to you. Try to think past this uproar.
Sucula: You didn't take the time to read that at all.
Cholei: Because you confirmed what you said earlier.
Sucula: So, take the time to read what I said.
Cholei: As I just said, It's a confirmation of what you said earlier, but just a further elaboration. Still, it doesn't change my answer.
Sucula: I'm not addressing the uproar in that. I'm addressing why the judicial system can't crack down on this and fix it the way you think it can
Cholei: You don't seem to understand my point.
Sucula: But anyway, I'm honestly tired. It's 6 in the morning for me, I'm exhausted . I don't feel like arguing with someone who says I'm being irrational. I don't feel like having to explain that it's deeper than you think it is, cause honestly, if it never happens to you, and I pray it doesn't, it's not going to affect you. But it's happened to me, and it affects me, ad I don't have the emotional capacity to argue about why it's difficult to come forward and how much of an internal battle it is when you've been through it. I really don't. So I wish you well, and I hope you enjoy the rest of your day.