Response 1 part II (Round 1)

# Response #1 (2/2)

## Samurai Jack VS Evil Ernie

This is one matchup where I am intimately familiar with both characters. Expect that to show.

### Fixing a Few Misconceptions

> Compared to Samurai Jack (who has parried blows from the Minions of Set which were capable of completely destroying large rock pillars)

Maybe that's because Jack's sword deflects practically everything in the setting and is effectively shown to take no damage whatsoever no matter what it's hit with. Jack himself clearly takes damage from things that the sword does not, a key example being the very fight linked above.

> Jack’s durability is frankly absurd. Here’s him getting the shit beat out of him by those same Minions of Set. And he’s fine during it.

No he is not. Here's the [entire](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XuIbyuqGUuQ&t=0m43s) sequence. Jack is fighting for his life here. Very quickly, he's forced to turn and flee or risk being killed.

>All he has is scaling to bullets, whereas with Jack… [yeah](https://gfycat.com/defensiveoldfashionedcoypu).

I think it's time to reiterate that this is not a feat of piercing durability.

As noted directly above, things that can damage Jack consistently fail to damage the sword, and things that fail to damage the sword are often enough to hurt Jack in some capacity. What you're showing is that the sword can withstand being shot by gatling rounds. What you're *not* showing is that Jack has genuine piercing durability to speak of.

You'd have been better off sticking with [this feat](https://gfycat.com/marvelouseverlastingherring) instead, since at least *that's* a showing where it's clear that he's taking a direct hit. But then, that doesn't support the idea that he can shrug off bullets, now does it? Truth be told, you don't *have* a showing where he tanks bullets; at most, you have a showing where he [gets grazed by piercing weapons](https://gfycat.com/acceptabledistortedhalcyon) while trying to avoid/deflect them. Moreover, there's at least one fairly blatant instance of Jack dealing with direct piercing damage that I can think of off the top of my head, and [the experience was not fun for him at all].(https://gfycat.com/shadowygregariousitaliangreyhound)

> What about speed? Refer to the aforementioned Samurai Jack feat, and then compare it to Evil Ernies best speed feat.

That is not Ernie's best speed feat, nor is it the best feat he scales to.
* [Ernie jumps out of a helicopter after Apache missiles have been fired at it](https://i.imgur.com/M1zick4.jpg), bailing out of his chopper before the missiles can reach it.
* [Ernie dodges a projectile fired with enough force to punch straight through a human body and continue traveling](https://i.imgur.com/L9G2dRd.jpg) He does this at point-blank range.
* [Ernie dodges a shot from a turret cannon](https://i.imgur.com/pwOPTZ2.jpg) after shooting a bunch of people down before they can fire.
* Homicide, one of Ernie's Dead Onez (read: inferior undead minions) is fast enough to [outrun a speeding truck and dodge automatic gunfire](https://imgur.com/a/GRX6QqE)

Is all of this as fast as Jack's feats are? Maybe not. But it does show that he's within range of the tier-setter who, as you have noted, is not an infallible bullet-timer and has himself been tagged by bullets before.

Now that that's out of the way...

### Ending a Foolish Samurai Warrior's Journey

**Ernie's Damage Output Does Not Suck (Not In This Context)**

> all of Ernies damage feats are vague, and it’s hard to decipher what his best one is from the RT

You should have made a better effort to do so.

* [Deforming steel with minimal effort](https://i.imgur.com/4pZh6hD.jpg)
* [Punching through a thick steel security door in three hits](https://imgur.com/a/tSHyxH6)
* A Dead One [yanks a rollercoaster train off its tracks](https://i.imgur.com/seR6Xoj.jpg) with such force that the people riding it are sent flying. Not just one car. He lifts and swings the whole thing.

Considering the blows Jack took from those Minions hurt him quite a bit worse than your post would lead us to believe, I think it's safe to assume that Jack's blunt-force durability isn't quite beyond Ernie's physical output.

Unless, of course, you default to [this feat](https://gfycat.com/obesereflectingfawn). But I wouldn't.

**Regeneration Matters**

I'm actually kind of glad that you chose to gloss over Ernie's regenerative abilities, because that leaves me room to talk about it instead. You seem convinced that his healing factor is not a factor. I'm convinced that you are wrong.

Ernie has [had his arm instantly reattach itself after being taken off](https://i.imgur.com/XtRoOFj.jpg), [healed instantly after having his torso cut straight through from top to bottom](https://i.imgur.com/kbnoQ88.jpg), and [closed minor wounds faster than they could be exacerbated](https://imgur.com/a/6jYkTph). By most accounts, Ernie's healing factor puts him back together from such damages right away, and there is only [one instance](https://imgur.com/a/nN36EJn) in canon which contradicts that. Consistency is on Ernie's side when it comes to this.

And that means you'll have to cut him fast and cut him thorough if you want to put him down in a way that fulfills the incap requirements.

**Jack's Sword is a Supernatural Threat**

...And that means that Ernie's Energy Arcane is going to [react](https://imgur.com/a/2WgsIQo) and amplify his physicals in response. That powerful magical weapon is going to juice Ernie right up, closing any gap in potency the moment he's exposed to it. Ernie just went from potentially being weaker to fighting on dead-even terms.

And then you have the *other* feature of this adaptation, which is [an adaptation to supernatural attacks, followed by release of energy waves](https://imgur.com/a/bS6vibF) whenever Ernie takes damage from something so powerful and supernatural. These waves of energy are powerful enough to [vaporize lesser demonic entities](https://i.imgur.com/tlymu50.jpg), who are themselves more durable than humans in that regard. I believe that this, by itself, can hurt Jack very badly; he's never tanked energy blasts this powerful before, and that sword isn't blocking AoE attacks no matter how he tries to maneuver it.

**The Sequence of Events?**

> * They clash in the middle of the clock tower
> * Jack cuts Ernie into pieces, and then starts to leave
> * Ernie regenerates back to full, maybe gets a surprise slash on Jack, only to realize he can’t cut through him
> * Jack turns around and cuts him down to even smaller pieces, now knowing his regeneration powers
> * Jack wins via incap rules.

Lot of bold assumptions you're making here.

Your first mistake was assuming that Jack would cut Ernie into multiple pieces straight away. Jack might be willing to kill here, but he tends to favor singular strikes against opponents he has no knowledge on and repeatedly *doesn't* slice things into several pieces the first time around. This has actually come back to bite him in the ass more than once, particularly against the Minions of Set where he [cut one exactly three times](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XuIbyuqGUuQ&t=1m41s), only for it to regenerate instantly and then drive him back while he was still shocked.

Your second mistake was assuming that, if Jack *were* to successfully cut Ernie into many pieces right away, that Ernie would simply get back up and attack the same way a second time. Ernie is a tactical genius who has out-strategized the entire U.S. military many times, and Jack assuming that he's gone down after such a meager attack is an advantage that can be capitalized upon in *much* better ways.

Your third mistake was not factoring in Ernie's adapatation and reactive energy waves mentioned above, the latter of which ensures that if Jack lands any slashes with that magic sword, he's going to pay for it in pain.

### Conclusion

* A good number of Jack's showings have been misrepresented while Ernie's better ones have been avoided, perhaps to exaggerate the gaps between the two of them.
* Ernie's regeneration has been underestimated (or at least understated), and is potent enough that "cutting him into many pieces" will not be an easy feat in the slightest.
* Any gaps in their physicals are not going to matter once Ernie's adaptation flares up in reaction to the supernatural threat of Jack's sword.
* Trying to cut Ernie with that supernatural sword is going to hurt Jack worse than it's going to hurt Ernie, thanks to the latter's reactive energy waves. Said waves are likely powerful enough to incapacitate or weaken Jack the moment he's hit by them, as he has never tanked energy attacks of such a caliber.
* The "sequence of events" at the end of the opponent's post is flawed, relying heavily on out-of-character behaviors, convenient tactical simplicity, and the absence of the aforementioned adaptation and reactive AoE blasts.

## The Meta VS Permafrost

I'm actually disappointed in what has been presented for this matchup so far. So much has been ignored on both sides of the equation, and the final argument comes across as sorely lacking.

Let me show you why this was the match you should have been putting your back into.

**Speed (Or Lack Thereof)**

> I don’t even need to dispute this character, her speed extremely under tier, period. Meta wipes the floor with her before she even realizes.

Let me stop you right there. The Meta will be doing no such thing.

"He's going to cross that distance at bullet-timing speed" is what I'm sure you *want* to say, but that's not quite something you can support. Meta's best running feat is him [outrunning some lateral minigun fire](https://gfycat.com/mediumimmediateflicker)...except, he's not outrunning it. He's running too fast for the shooter to reliably aim at, after being given a *very* wide window within which to react via the shooter sweeping that minigun in a wide arc instead of aiming the barrel right at him. This feat is nebulous, and certainly won't serve as evidence that Agent Maine can run cross twelve whole meters before Maureen can engage him.

Your only other feats of speed are him [reacting to and deflecting a rocket](https://gfycat.com/pitifulgrossgar) and him [ducking a shotgun blast](https://gfycat.com/vaindistantheterodontosaurus). That second one is so easy to write off as an aimdodge that I'm not even sure I feel good about it (he had moments to recognize that he was about to be shot at and moved at roughly the exact same time that Sarge pulled the trigger), and the first one is screwed by the fact that the missile shot at him travels visibly slower than the speed that bullets in his series are repeatedly shown to move.

Picking apart my characters' speed feats as thoroughly as you can is all well and fine. Just make sure you hold your characters to the same standard that you hold mine.

Speaking of mine, you don't seem to have assessed Permafrost's speed very well. Not to worry, though. I can handle that.

* Permafrost has [outrun Static on his saucer](https://gfycat.com/shamefulseparatekoodoo-permafrost), weaving through cars while he was flying in through the air with no obstacles. Static on his saucer could, at that point in time, [outspeed a high-tech flying combat vehicle](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6jx26IQ8YpI&t=1m29s). Even if we assume a very low-end for this vehicle, there are cars in Static Shock's episodes that aren't shown moving at the speed that this vehicle is while onscreen.
* Permafrost has also kept up with Static in multiple fights, and even [used wind manipulation to deflect a blast from Static after it was fired](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kLJsUSSIRFI&t=0m29s). Static is capable of tracking and tagging the likes of [Batman Beyond](https://gfycat.com/vibrantsickdevilfish) with his blasts. Batman Beyond [evades gunfire](https://gfycat.com/classicunfortunateburro), and can even ["outrun" gunfire in the same manner that Maine does](https://gfycat.com/largewildblackandtancoonhound).

I don't really *need* much more than this, to be honest with you. This puts my character well within the same range of speed as yours, possibly to a superior degree. The Meta will be blitzing nothing.

**Ice Does More Than Freeze People**

Tell me, how good is the Meta at running on solid, slippery ice?

Because Permafrost's mere presence [covers her surroundings in that solid, slippery ice](https://gfycat.com/liquidlinearadmiralbutterfly-permafrost). This isn't something has much control over. It just happens. The moment Permafrost is teleported onto the battlefield, the battlefield will become a frictionless nightmare.

But that's not all. You mentioned this earlier...

> She would Freeze Maine, obviously, but what would that accomplish? Freelancer armor can survive in the vacuum of space, a bit of ice is nothing. Maine would then tear through the ice and kill her.

...but what if she *doesn't* do that? What if she decides to start off by [summoning a series of giant ice constructs](https://gfycat.com/impressiveminorhagfish-permafrost) and knocking the taste out of his mouth? Maine charging headfirst on this now tractionless battlefield at the start of the fight means he's going to run right into these constructs and take one hell of a beating right out of the gate. All while Permafrost isn't even touched.

Your entire argument is already lying at my feet at this point, so I'm not actually going to set up a kill for this one yet. I'm content with deconstructing your simple, straightforward attack and making you put some work into your next response.

### Conclusions

* A speed-blitz is definitely not happening. The Meta is slower than the first post suggests, Permafrost is *faster* than the first post suggests, they are both on fairly equal footing in terms of speed, and there is a twelve meter gap between them that Maine has to cross before he can engage.
* Loss of traction combined with a barrage of ice constructs that even Static has trouble avoiding means the Meta is going to take a walloping within the first few moments of the battle. Permafrost will remain undamaged in the meanwhile.

/u/Elick320 It's your turn. Let's see what else you've got.