Kiran and Lous discuss the incomprehensible nature of planes

04[23:22] <@Lous_of_ASStora> 7Set the scene, Kiran boy!
01[23:23] <Artisan_Kiran> 5So it would likely be before any work is commenced on The Plan to Explode Snowtown
01[23:24] <Artisan_Kiran> 5A late afternoon in the manor, Kiran would come looking for Lous, wherever he might be.
04[23:25] * @Lous_of_ASStora 7can be found... polishing his armour! Doing so in the safety and comfort of whatever quarters he has commandeered for himself. Kiran would be treated to the heart-racing sight of Lous in naught but his tabard and cloak - and the omnipresent helmet, of course.
01[23:26] <Artisan_Kiran> 5But if he doesn't clonk, is he really Lous
06[23:26] * @Lous_of_ASStora 7can clonk with just a helmet on, thank you very much.
04[23:27] <@Lous_of_ASStora> 7The room shall reek of metal polish. This comforts Kiran.
06[23:27] * Artisan_Kiran is wearing comfortable clothes, and is lacking his armour and most of his accoutrements, barring sword and prosthesis.
06[23:27] * Artisan_Kiran knocks on whatever barrier symbolically or literally separates the room Lous is in and the space Kiran occupies.
[23:28] <@Lous_of_ASStora> 7"I have told you guys, stories /after/ the laundry is done! I can /sense/ those unwashed sheets."
01[23:28] <Artisan_Kiran> 5"I- am I supposed to be helping with the laundry?"
06[23:28] * Artisan_Kiran looks slightly horrified, and looks around for whatever direction the laundry is in.
04[23:29] <@Lous_of_ASStora> 7"...Hm. That voice. Sounds vaguely... humorous. That must be Kiran!"
01[23:29] <Artisan_Kiran> 5"Um. I've never really stayed in someone else's manor house before, so I didn't know the proto- oh. Um. Yes, hi. It's me."
[23:30] <@Lous_of_ASStora> 7"It appears that you have melded into the door."
[23:30] <@Lous_of_ASStora> 7"I am religiously obligated to shatter you to free you from this torment."
06[23:30] * Artisan_Kiran pauses to consider the meaning of this, debating whether it's an invitation to open the door.
06[23:31] * Artisan_Kiran pushes at it tentatively.
[23:31] <@Lous_of_ASStora> 7"Where did I leave my sword..."
01[23:31] <Artisan_Kiran> 5"Are you busy?"
[23:31] <@Lous_of_ASStora> 7The door shall... open! As doors are wont to do, half the time.
06[23:32] * Artisan_Kiran stands in the doorway, looking uncertainly at Lous. This is not how he has become accustomed to knocking on people's doors going.
[23:32] <@Lous_of_ASStora> 7"I am but preening. Vain noblewomen might consider that busy. I generally would not."
01[23:33] <Artisan_Kiran> 5"Ah. Good! I think. Well, since you mentioned religion, I was actually... hoping to pick up that conversation we had back in Limbo again. I have several questions."
[23:33] <@Lous_of_ASStora> 7"Ahhh, wonderful, wonderful! Come in, don't just stand there."
[23:34] <@Lous_of_ASStora> 7"Do excuse the mess."
06[23:35] * Artisan_Kiran walks in, confidence restored.
[23:35] <@Lous_of_ASStora> 7The individual pieces of Lous' armour are strewn about the room, many of them polished to a shining - bordering on blinding - sheen while the remaining others are left scuffed and dull.
01[23:35] <Artisan_Kiran> 5"No problem. Maintenance is important."
06[23:35] * Artisan_Kiran identifies somewhere unoccupied by armour to sit.
[23:37] <@Lous_of_ASStora> 7An errant chair or a spot on the far end of the bed shall suffice!
01[23:37] <Artisan_Kiran> 5"Why were you telling me to go do laundry?"
[23:38] <@Lous_of_ASStora> 7"I was not. I was telling the children to go do laundry."
01[23:39] <Artisan_Kiran> 5"Oh! Have they been asking for stories a lot?"
[23:40] <@Lous_of_ASStora> 7"Of course they have. I can tell a good story. If not stories, then it is games of some sort."
01[23:41] <Artisan_Kiran> 5"Have you told them stories from home, or some of our own adventures?"
01[23:41] <Artisan_Kiran> 5I don't really know any Fagian stories."
[23:41] <@Lous_of_ASStora> 7"Both, here and there."
[23:42] <@Lous_of_ASStora> 7"You could fill a library with tomes of Fagian stories. Each state has troves, extolling the virtues of their Saints and deeds of their heroes. It is quite interesting from an outside perspective."
01[23:43] <Artisan_Kiran> 5"Huh. I've only heard some Swordfagian ones from Linda. I think I'd like to hear some of the other states'. I wonder how they vary."
[23:44] <@Lous_of_ASStora> 7"Greatly. Each state has their own virtues and vices. Quite different emphases."
[23:44] <@Lous_of_ASStora> 7"And that is, in part, due to the culture that such stories supports."
[23:45] <@Lous_of_ASStora> 7"You are far more likely to be interested in the art of building and history if you are hearing tales of great men and women who have erected impenetrable fortresses or uncovered ancient secrets."
06[23:46] * Artisan_Kiran nods, looking thoughtful.
01[23:46] <Artisan_Kiran> 5"Here's something I've been wondering."
01[23:46] <Artisan_Kiran> 5"What do dragons have to do with scythes?"
[23:46] <@Lous_of_ASStora> 7"Oh, I have never heard that one before!"
[23:47] <@Lous_of_ASStora> 7"I actually /have/ heard that one before, I am poor at sounding condescending."
01[23:47] <Artisan_Kiran> 5"Sorry. I've been trying to figure Scythefagia out a little, since Sandra keeps..."
06[23:48] * Artisan_Kiran grasps vaguely at the air.
01[23:48] <Artisan_Kiran> 5"Not casting them in a favourable light."
[23:48] <@Lous_of_ASStora> 7"Well, yes, that is what happens when you listen to those lost in centuries of cultural warfare."
[23:49] <@Lous_of_ASStora> 7"It is actually an interesting titbit of history."
01[23:49] <Artisan_Kiran> 5"Oh. So is there like a stereotypical dislike thing? Swordfagians hate Scythefagians..."
[23:50] <@Lous_of_ASStora> 7"Aye. There are traditional rivalries and friends. But first, scythes."
[23:51] <@Lous_of_ASStora> 7"The scythe is used as a braggart symbol of impracticality. As you might agree, it is far from an appropriate weapon for almost all warriors."
[23:52] <@Lous_of_ASStora> 7"Awkward and unwieldy. Which is precisely why seeing somebody use one effectively does inspire some level of awe. Whether achieved through absurd levels of martial dedication, or as a symbol that the arcane can work with or overcome physical hindrances."
01[23:54] <Artisan_Kiran> 5"Interesting. So it's meant to be a tool for intimidation more than effective in combat?"
01[23:54] <Artisan_Kiran> 5"I wonder if that's why the Void uses them."
[23:55] <@Lous_of_ASStora> 7"Somewhat. It is the combination of the two that delivers the impact, not either factor individually. Just as the proud and mighty dragon, being able to show off fearsome displays and actually back them up with great power is most certainly a way to inspire dread and respect."
[23:56] <@Lous_of_ASStora> 7"Quite possibly why the Voidspawn use them, aye. They are /fearsome/ when employed effectively."
01[23:57] <Artisan_Kiran> 5"Huh."
01[23:57] <Artisan_Kiran> 5"I still don't really get the dragon thing."
[23:57] <@Lous_of_ASStora> 7"Then tell me, what do you think when it comes to dragons?"
01[23:59] <Artisan_Kiran> 5"I never really thought very hard about them until recently. They're unbelievably rare, and are widely regarded as symbols of destruction and the end times."
Session Time: Thu Jul 05 00:00:00 2018
[00:01] <@Lous_of_ASStora> 7"Well, that will depend on who you ask. I am sure that the villagers of Burndt still think that way."
01[00:02] <Artisan_Kiran> 5"It's not a small-town thing."
01[00:03] <Artisan_Kiran> 5"It's... one of those things everyone knows. Isn't it?"
[00:05] <@Lous_of_ASStora> 7"Again, it does quite depend on who you ask. Those who have lived under the watchful eye of a dragon might see them as a blessing, as is the case with Scythefagia and at least a part of Choron from what I have heard."
[00:05] <@Lous_of_ASStora> 7"Those who have historically suffered from an enraged dragon's wrath will surely see them as a bringer of great death."
[00:06] <@Lous_of_ASStora> 7"My elder kin most definitely saw them as good sport."
06[00:06] * Artisan_Kiran frowns.
01[00:06] <Artisan_Kiran> 5"I've never heard of a benevolent dragon at all."
01[00:07] <Artisan_Kiran> 5"But I guess I can see why emulating them might be good for intimidating your enemies."
[00:08] <@Lous_of_ASStora> 7"Oh, they are very intelligent creatures from all that I have heard."
[00:09] <@Lous_of_ASStora> 7"Frighteningly adept at the arcane arts."
[00:09] <@Lous_of_ASStora> 7"A wizard's best friend, no?"
01[00:10] <Artisan_Kiran> 5"I... don't think so, no. I'm sorry, I've really only heard of chaos and destruction following them. Death indiscriminate."
[00:11] <@Lous_of_ASStora> 7"Hm. Interesting, that. I cannot recall Valveria suffering from any particular draconic scourge."
01[00:11] <Artisan_Kiran> 5"But I'm willing to accept things are different in other worlds."
[00:14] <@Lous_of_ASStora> 7"I do wonder why that is."
01[00:14] <Artisan_Kiran> 5"Valveria's been attacked a few times. Every... century and-a-half, I think."
[00:14] <@Lous_of_ASStora> 7"That is rather... timely."
01[00:14] <Artisan_Kiran> 5"Not regularly, just roughly. Every couple of generations."
[00:16] <@Lous_of_ASStora> 7"Even so. That is still an oddly regular occurrence."
06[00:16] * Artisan_Kiran shrugs.
01[00:17] <Artisan_Kiran> 5"The last time Valveria was attacked was almost 200 years ago."
01[00:17] <Artisan_Kiran> 5"Burndt, though, and Snowtown - 70 years back, maybe."
01[00:17] <Artisan_Kiran> 5"I wonder if Adalet remembers the attack on Snowtown."
[00:18] <@Lous_of_ASStora> 7"Adalet is quite an old fellow. Whether his memory will serve him is another matter entirely though."
[00:18] <@Lous_of_ASStora> 7"Terrible thing, that."
01[00:19] <Artisan_Kiran> 5"Yeah. I had a talk with him about that, and I found myself wondering about the benefit of losing your memory."
01[00:19] <Artisan_Kiran> 5"Or giving it up, or having it taken. Whatever the terminology should be."
[00:20] <@Lous_of_ASStora> 7"It is a heart-rending thing to lose."
[00:20] <@Lous_of_ASStora> 7"Our memories are a critical part of our lives. Our personalities, our experiences. How we think and act."
01[00:21] <Artisan_Kiran> 5"Yeah, exactly. And they anchor who you are. They make you more constant."
02[00:21] * @Itchy (Itchy@CDB0A2FC.D8E228C9.71B5FFB4.IP) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
01[00:21] <Artisan_Kiran> 5"I thought that without them, you're more prone to change, to lose your past self. And that it fit really neatly into Neviltis' philosophy of the struggle. Adapt or die."
01[00:22] <Artisan_Kiran> 5"Having less to hold onto, maybe you'll fight that much harder to hold onto what you have. If this is making any sense."
[00:23] <@Lous_of_ASStora> 7"No, no. I do quite understand what you mean. What is left beyond your memories is the product of them - that which is so core to yourself that it continues even without the memories that formed it."
[00:24] <@Lous_of_ASStora> 7"Yet you must find reasons anew to maintain that core. Hold it tight to not lose it without that anchor."
01[00:24] <Artisan_Kiran> 5"I've never lost my memories before. I can't imagine what that would be like."
01[00:26] <Artisan_Kiran> 5"I hope that the Faceless still have themselves. Or that maybe once this is all over, they'll be able to return to themselves."
[00:27] <@Lous_of_ASStora> 7"It is... interesting. We outsiders never truly lose our memories - without strong external influence. We simply lose focus on parts of them at a given time. With age, you can remember more but you also have more to lose track of."
01[00:28] <Artisan_Kiran> 5"That sounds a lot like growing up."
[00:29] <@Lous_of_ASStora> 7"Aye, mortals face much the same issue. Yet if an outsider reflects and meditates, the mists of time shift away and they can access those parts of their history once again."
[00:29] <@Lous_of_ASStora> 7"Nothing is ever truly lost."
[00:29] <@Lous_of_ASStora> 7"I hope that the same can be said for the Faceless."
01[00:29] <Artisan_Kiran> 5"I can't decide whether never being able to forget is a gift."
[00:31] <@Lous_of_ASStora> 7"Now that depends on what kind of life you lead."
01[00:32] <Artisan_Kiran> 5"Is there nothing that you sometimes wish you could forget?"
[00:33] <@Lous_of_ASStora> 7"Oh, there is plenty."
[00:34] <@Lous_of_ASStora> 7"I have witnessed evils and horrors that can add question marks to things."
[00:35] <@Lous_of_ASStora> 7"It is how you answer those new questions that define who we become."
01[00:35] <Artisan_Kiran> 5"I... don't know whether I wish I could forget things."
[00:36] <@Lous_of_ASStora> 7"Have you heard the term 'hope springs eternal' before?"
01[00:37] <Artisan_Kiran> 5"Not really."
[00:38] <@Lous_of_ASStora> 7"What it means is that people will find cause to be hopeful, regardless of what they have experienced."
[00:39] <@Lous_of_ASStora> 7"If one can remember the full weight of the suffering they have witnessed and experienced, and still find cause to hold hope..."
[00:39] <@Lous_of_ASStora> 7"I would call that true strength."
01[00:40] <Artisan_Kiran> 5"Heh. Yes. I think you're right."
06[00:41] * Artisan_Kiran looks down at his hands for a moment, a slight smile on his face.
04[00:41] <@Lous_of_ASStora> 7"And I do think you are strong, Kiran."
01[00:42] <Artisan_Kiran> 5"Thanks. But that's- I mean you too, obviously. Wow, this is not even close to what I was planning on talking to you about."
06[00:42] * Artisan_Kiran chuckles quietly.
[00:43] <@Lous_of_ASStora> 7"You will find that this happens a lot with me!"
01[00:44] <Artisan_Kiran> 5"Wouldn't be the first time for me either."
[00:44] <@Lous_of_ASStora> 7"Perhaps I should teach you how to be a preacher. It really is quite beneficial being able to spin a yarn in that line of work."
01[00:45] <Artisan_Kiran> 5"I... could use speaking lessons. Yes."
[00:46] <@Lous_of_ASStora> 7"No, no, no. You are not ready for speaking lessons."
[00:46] <@Lous_of_ASStora> 7"First, you must have /shouting/ lessons."
06[00:46] * Artisan_Kiran slowly turns to look at Lous in horror.
01[00:46] <Artisan_Kiran> 5"What."
[00:47] <@Lous_of_ASStora> 7"Yes! How is one meant to instil their words with gravitas when they cannot even do so at the top of their lungs?"
01[00:49] <Artisan_Kiran> 5"I... don't know? Wouldn't gravitas be easier when it's louder?"
[00:50] <@Lous_of_ASStora> 7"You tell me. Do you really think you can make people listen when you yell?"
01[00:51] <Artisan_Kiran> 5"Maybe. It's much harder not to hear you."
[00:51] <@Lous_of_ASStora> 7"There is a very big difference between hearing and listening."
[00:52] <@Lous_of_ASStora> 7"It is quite satisfying to ignore the words of a ranting, raving upstart."
01[00:53] <Artisan_Kiran> 5"I guess, yeah. Okay. So how would- okay, we're getting sidetracked again."
06[00:54] * Artisan_Kiran takes out his notebook, clearly writes down 'Shouting lessons?' in it, then turns back to Lous.
[00:55] <@Lous_of_ASStora> 7"What are we being sidetracked from, exactly?"
01[00:55] <Artisan_Kiran> 5"We'll come back to that. I'd really love to get better at speaking, and I think I'm going to need to be able to inspire people to work together when this is all over."
01[00:55] <Artisan_Kiran> 5"I wanted to ask about religion! Sort of."
[00:56] <@Lous_of_ASStora> 7"Then do ask away!"
01[00:56] <Artisan_Kiran> 5"What's an empyreal lord?"
[00:58] <@Lous_of_ASStora> 7"The Empyreal Lords are the highest ranking celestials across the Upper Planes. Nine there are, in total."
[00:58] <@Lous_of_ASStora> 7"Three for each plane."
06[00:59] * Artisan_Kiran starts writing, then immediately stops and takes a new page.
01[00:59] <Artisan_Kiran> 5"The planes are physically arranged?"
[00:59] <@Lous_of_ASStora> 7"Why, yes. Of course they are."
01[01:00] <Artisan_Kiran> 5"Why? Is it distinct properties of the planes themselves that cause that? Is the plane of air lighter than the plane of water?"
01[01:00] <Artisan_Kiran> 5"Or is there some other hierarchy like age?"
[01:01] <@Lous_of_ASStora> 7"No. It is simply thus. It has ever been so, and ever shall be. There are some things that we simply accept as truth."
06[01:01] * Artisan_Kiran looks a little disgusted.
01[01:02] <Artisan_Kiran> 5"That's... a little frustrating."
[01:02] <@Lous_of_ASStora> 7"Why is that?"
01[01:04] <Artisan_Kiran> 5"Because things are meant to have reasons, even if they're vast beyond comprehension, and exist beyond our plane of reality. The mechanics of magic, and nature, and everything that makes up everything else all contribute to that."
01[01:04] <Artisan_Kiran> 5"Things don't exist like they are without cause. If they didn't have a cause, they wouldn't exist at all."
[01:06] <@Lous_of_ASStora> 7"Why, then you shall have to ascend to the power of an Empyreal Lord to begin investigating such questions! That is the realm of the abstract. There are questions that are beyond our spiritual ability to understand."
06[01:08] * Artisan_Kiran stares down at his notebook for a moment, before flipping to a page titled "To Do List".
06[01:08] * Artisan_Kiran adds "Attain ability to understand the structure of the planes".
06[01:09] * Artisan_Kiran adds "Attain understanding of the structure of the planes."
06[01:09] * Artisan_Kiran flips back to where he was.
01[01:09] <Artisan_Kiran> 5"Okay. I'll get to it."
01[01:09] <Artisan_Kiran> 5"So there are nine Empyreal Lords."
01[01:10] <Artisan_Kiran> 5"So they're a kind of celestial. Like angels, but... 'higher'? More powerful? I don't know how celestial rank works."
[01:12] <@Lous_of_ASStora> 7"It is rather easy for the other celestials. There are classes of their kind - for instance classes of Archon. You can have the Trumpet-class, Hound-class, Shield-class."
[01:13] <@Lous_of_ASStora> 7"While there is a spectrum of abilities within these classes, the average Shield Archon will be more powerful than the average Hound Archon, who is in turn more powerful than the average Trumpet Archon."
01[01:14] <Artisan_Kiran> 5"Alright, that makes sense. Let's skip over the use of the word 'powerful' here - that seems like a whole mess of detail to get into right now."
01[01:19] <Artisan_Kiran> 5"So because they're 'Lords', does that mean that they rule somehow?"
[01:19] <@Lous_of_ASStora> 7"If you were to continue following along this defined hierarchy, you will culminate with the Empyreal Lords. They are the celestials who have none above them. One could very much place them upon the same level as the gods, though they are not stylised as such."
[01:20] <@Lous_of_ASStora> 7"They have a great deal of sway within their respective planes, quite literally so in being able to influence the planes themselves to a capacity. They rule in the way that they have many followers who align with their ideologies. At least, aspects of their ideologies."
01[01:22] <Artisan_Kiran> 5"That's... impressive."
[01:24] <@Lous_of_ASStora> 7"They are beyond comprehension, at least in their full power. So there are interpretations. Avatars. Shards of their full essence that present a more readily acknowledgeable front for their ideology."
01[01:25] <Artisan_Kiran> 5"Again with the barriers to comprehension."
01[01:26] <Artisan_Kiran> 5"But noted."
[01:27] <@Lous_of_ASStora> 7"There is such a thing as knowing too much."
01[01:29] <Artisan_Kiran> 5"I... don't agree. But I recognise that that's possibly because you're more experienced than me."
06[01:29] * Artisan_Kiran considers for a moment.
01[01:29] <Artisan_Kiran> 5"I'll amend that to probably."
[01:30] <@Lous_of_ASStora> 7"Heh. Well, you know that much!"
06[01:31] * Artisan_Kiran shrugs.
01[01:31] <Artisan_Kiran> 5"Some people know more than others."
06[01:32] * Artisan_Kiran sighs.
01[01:32] <Artisan_Kiran> 5"Okay. That's really useful to know."
01[01:32] <Artisan_Kiran> 5"Outsiders are complicated."
[01:33] <@Lous_of_ASStora> 7"Truly, the reason I think this is because of the Empyreal Lords. When you know so much of the underlying workings of creation, you seem to lose touch with reality. They cannot really apply themselves to the planes anymore. For all their knowledge and their power, they have to rely on creating Avatars to put anything across, let alone what they have learned."
[01:33] <@Lous_of_ASStora> 7"That sounds horrifying to me."
01[01:33] <Artisan_Kiran> 5"It sounds oddly reminiscent of how you described your memory."
[01:34] <@Lous_of_ASStora> 7"Hm. Yes. Yes, that is an effective comparison."
01[01:35] <Artisan_Kiran> 5"Too small a lens to show the whole picture."
[01:35] <@Lous_of_ASStora> 7"Or too large a picture for any lens."
01[01:36] <Artisan_Kiran> 5"That's probably more accurate."
[01:38] <@Lous_of_ASStora> 7"Too much for me, thank you very much. I would quite like to stay where I can sense the world around me."
[01:39] <@Lous_of_ASStora> 7"Knowledge is not worth sacrificing that for."
01[01:39] <Artisan_Kiran> 5"I'm not sure yet."
01[01:40] <Artisan_Kiran> 5"I have a lifetime to rebuild a world. Maybe once I've done everything I can, I'll feel comfortable looking at the greater questions."
06[01:40] * Artisan_Kiran smiles down at the notebook.
01[01:40] <Artisan_Kiran> 5"That seems like a nice way to spend a retirement."
04[01:41] <@Lous_of_ASStora> 7"You are a strange lad, Kiran."
06[01:41] * Artisan_Kiran shrugs.
01[01:41] <Artisan_Kiran> 5"It's a strange world."
[01:41] <@Lous_of_ASStora> 7"Yes. I think that I like that about you."
06[01:43] * Artisan_Kiran snorts.
01[01:43] <Artisan_Kiran> 5"Nice of you to say."
[01:44] <@Lous_of_ASStora> 7"Well. I am quite fond of you. And your strangeness is quite core to yourself!"
01[01:46] <Artisan_Kiran> 5"You're pretty unlike anyone I've met before all of this too."
06[01:47] * Artisan_Kiran flips back to his To Do List and amends the latest entries according to the updated plan.
01[01:50] <Artisan_Kiran> 5"I honestly have more questions, about other things as well. And you seem like the best-positioned person to help. But... I've got a lot to think about. And I want to try this meditation thing everyone was talking about. Maybe it'll help me process."
06[01:50] * Artisan_Kiran nods to himself, then turns back to Lous.
01[01:50] <Artisan_Kiran> 5"It can wait. We have time."
[01:50] <@Lous_of_ASStora> 7"That we do! That we do. One step at a time."
01[01:52] <Artisan_Kiran> 5"Thanks. For this. And, y'know, everything else."
01[01:53] <Artisan_Kiran> 5"If there's ever anything I can help you with, I- well. Just ask, okay?"
04[01:56] <@Lous_of_ASStora> 7"Of course, Kiran. Always."
[01:56] <@Lous_of_ASStora> 7"That is what friends are for."
06[01:56] * Artisan_Kiran nods, then gets to his feet.
01[01:57] <Artisan_Kiran> 5"Yeah. I'm going to head off. I'm hoping to get to spar this evening."
[01:58] <@Lous_of_ASStora> 7"Do enjoy!"