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  1. 6.00KiB; Updated: 12h 50m 28s ago (Sun, 23 July 2017 07:09:34 +0000)
  2. [2017-07-23T13:00:14-0700] <geigerCounter> Hey, question.
  3. [2017-07-23T13:00:23-0700] <geigerCounter> NO nevermind, I'll find the answer myself.
  4. [2017-07-23T13:00:43-0700] <geigerCounter> Also, whoops, heavy pinky I guess. Didn't mean to all-caps "no".
  5. [2017-07-23T13:02:17-0700] Mode is +Cnt
  6. [2017-07-23T13:02:18-0700] <robhol> karelian: holy shit indeed, although a) what's the software and b) what the fuck is wrong with the video recording? :p
  7. [2017-07-23T13:02:45-0700] <geigerCounter> I was wondering how many people are familiar with Japanese translations of the Bible.
  8. [2017-07-23T13:03:06-0700] <geigerCounter> I am also wondering how difficult it would be to translate Hebrew to Japanese.
  9. [2017-07-23T13:03:07-0700] <j416> robhol: sneep!
  10. [2017-07-23T13:03:15-0700] <robhol> j416: !
  11. [2017-07-23T13:03:24-0700] <j416> after going soaring with STT perhaps
  12. [2017-07-23T13:03:24-0700] <karelian> robhol: all I know that he uses pianoteq for piano sounds :P
  13. [2017-07-23T13:03:38-0700] <karelian> don't know about the rest. but he does mention the video might be out of sync
  14. [2017-07-23T13:04:11-0700] sobhan (~sobhan@unaffiliated/sobhan) left IRC (Quit: sobhan)
  15. [2017-07-23T13:04:47-0700] <karelian> geigerCounter: I doubt you'll find anyone with more than a passing knowledge of that
  16. [2017-07-23T13:04:56-0700] ConductorCat (~Conductor@pool-173-53-41-246.rcmdva.fios.verizon.net) joined the channel
  17. [2017-07-23T13:05:51-0700] <j416> .s/more than //
  18. [2017-07-23T13:05:53-0700] <K5> geigerCounter: I doubt you'll find anyone with a passing knowledge of that
  19. [2017-07-23T13:07:11-0700] SH0CKS (SH0CKS@gateway/vpn/mullvad/x-sytokaveqtoxmgvs) joined the channel
  20. [2017-07-23T13:07:20-0700] <karelian> j416: passing here means vague, cursory
  21. [2017-07-23T13:08:04-0700] <erkin> geigerCounter: I'm slightly familiar with it.
  22. [2017-07-23T13:08:08-0700] <j416> :O
  23. [2017-07-23T13:08:18-0700] <j416> .s/ /more than /
  24. [2017-07-23T13:08:19-0700] <K5> geigerCounter:more than I'm slightly familiar with it.
  25. [2017-07-23T13:08:20-0700] • j416: reverts
  26. [2017-07-23T13:08:27-0700] <erkin> I occasionally use it because they use archaic language in some versions.
  27. [2017-07-23T13:08:58-0700] <geigerCounter> Hmm.
  28. [2017-07-23T13:09:02-0700] <karelian> hebrew must be difficult to translate to anything :P
  29. [2017-07-23T13:09:05-0700] <geigerCounter> erkin: How do you mean?
  30. [2017-07-23T13:10:15-0700] <geigerCounter> karelian: Can be, yes. I'm not fluent or anything, but I know enough about it to see why it presents challenge to translators and even scholars who supposedly speak Hebrew as a native tongue.
  31. [2017-07-23T13:10:16-0700] wigust (~go.wigust@178.71.79.236) left IRC (Remote host closed the connection)
  32. [2017-07-23T13:10:17-0700] <erkin> .j kobun
  33. [2017-07-23T13:10:18-0700] <K5> 2 hits: 1 古文 | 2 乾分,乾児,子分
  34. [2017-07-23T13:10:19-0700] <erkin> 1
  35. [2017-07-23T13:10:20-0700] <K5> 古文 [こぶん] /(n) (1) ancient writing (i.e. Edo-period or older)/classical literature/(2) ancient Chinese character (pre-Qin period)/(P)/
  36. [2017-07-23T13:11:11-0700] <geigerCounter> erkin: Do you speak Japanese fluently?
  37. [2017-07-23T13:11:12-0700] <erkin> イエス、ナタナエルの己が許に來るを見、これを指して言ひ給ふ「視よ、眞にイスラエル人也、その衷に噓僞無し。」
  38. [2017-07-23T13:11:15-0700] <erkin> For example. ^
  39. [2017-07-23T13:11:29-0700] <erkin> Eh, I guess.
  40. [2017-07-23T13:11:40-0700] <geigerCounter> I am not fluent in Japanese.
  41. [2017-07-23T13:11:54-0700] <erkin> Modern translation: イエスはナタナエルが自分の方に来るのを見て、彼について言われた「見よ、あの人こそ、ほんとうのイスラエル人である。その心には偽りがない。」
  42. [2017-07-23T13:11:54-0700] <karelian> .k 眞
  43. [2017-07-23T13:11:56-0700] <geigerCounter> Part of the reason I seek a Japanese translation of the Bible is for learning purposes.
  44. [2017-07-23T13:11:58-0700] <K5> 眞 ▪ Rad: 109(目) ▪ SKIP: 2-2-8 ▪ Strokes: 10 ▪ Grade: Jinmeiyō-2 ▪ Freq: 2359 ▪ Parts: ハ目匕 ▪ zhen1 ▪ 진(jin) ▪ シン ▪ ま まこと ▪ Nanori: さな ち まこ まさ まつ ▪ Chân ▪ {truth} {reality} {Buddhist sect}
  45. [2017-07-23T13:12:00-0700] <geigerCounter> Heh.
  46. [2017-07-23T13:12:14-0700] <erkin> 真の旧字体
  47. [2017-07-23T13:12:19-0700] <karelian> yeah
  48. [2017-07-23T13:13:01-0700] <geigerCounter> But one of the biggest issues with translating Hebrew, especially classical Hebrew is their "plural of grandeur" or something like that.
  49. [2017-07-23T13:13:02-0700] <karelian> other than that it wasn't too bad
  50. [2017-07-23T13:13:21-0700] <erkin> what
  51. [2017-07-23T13:13:35-0700] <geigerCounter> Basically, you can refer to a singular thing with the plural case to grammatically indicate the excellence of a thing.
  52. [2017-07-23T13:13:48-0700] <erkin> Majestic plural.
  53. [2017-07-23T13:14:08-0700] <erkin> Usually used with personal pronouns in Western languages tho
  54. [2017-07-23T13:14:10-0700] <geigerCounter> erkin: I suppose?
  55. [2017-07-23T13:14:20-0700] <geigerCounter> Hmmm.
  56. [2017-07-23T13:14:34-0700] <erkin> T-V distinction is a specialised case of it.
  57. [2017-07-23T13:14:37-0700] <geigerCounter> But Hebrew uses it even more frequently, iirc.
  58. [2017-07-23T13:14:53-0700] <geigerCounter> And with arguably more ambiguity.
  59. [2017-07-23T13:15:33-0700] <geigerCounter> erkin: So you're actually a language scholar then?
  60. [2017-07-23T13:15:59-0700] <erkin> I wouldn't consider myself a scholar of any sort.
  61. [2017-07-23T13:16:09-0700] <erkin> But I'm an amateur linguist.
  62. [2017-07-23T13:16:51-0700] <karelian> I disagree. erkin is a scholar and a gentleman
  63. [2017-07-23T13:17:17-0700] <geigerCounter> Hm. Well I recognize the linguistic terms and you seem to have equal or greater knowledge than I do, and I consider *myself* to be an amateur linguist.
  64. [2017-07-23T13:17:25-0700] <erkin> この世辞者ったら(●´ω｀●)
  65. [2017-07-23T13:17:42-0700] <geigerCounter> And when presented with a quantity that is equal or greater, I tend to err on the side that I know less and occupy the lower position.
  66. [2017-07-23T13:17:47-0700] <geigerCounter> So...
  67. [2017-07-23T13:18:06-0700] <geigerCounter> Thing is though, one can be an amateur scholar.
  68. [2017-07-23T13:18:11-0700] <erkin> Titles don't mean much tbh
  69. [2017-07-23T13:18:14-0700] <Richard_Cavell> Congratulations to Hakuho on winning the July Grand Sumo tournament
  70. [2017-07-23T13:18:37-0700] <geigerCounter> erkin: I suppose they don't. Knowledge matters more. So shall we compare knowledge then?
  71. [2017-07-23T13:18:59-0700] <erkin> Why?
  72. [2017-07-23T13:19:17-0700] <geigerCounter> I know that my knowledge of Japanese is lacking, cos I still can't even read kanji and stutter a lot at kana. And I'm always eager to learn.
  73. [2017-07-23T13:19:37-0700] <erkin> Sure, stick around and we'll help you.
  74. [2017-07-23T13:19:53-0700] <geigerCounter> Thanks
  75. [2017-07-23T13:20:24-0700] <geigerCounter> Mm. A problem I have is I can't seem to retain language theory well.
  76. [2017-07-23T13:20:40-0700]
  77. [2017-07-23T13:20:40-0700] ------------- End Session -------------
  78. [2017-07-23T13:20:40-0700]
  79. [2017-07-23T13:27:43-0700]
  80. [2017-07-23T13:27:43-0700] ------------- Begin Session -------------
  81. [2017-07-23T13:27:43-0700]
  82. [2017-07-23T13:27:45-0700] zen1 (~zen1@unaffiliated/zen1) joined the channel
  83. [2017-07-23T13:27:45-0700] Topic is Welcome to the channel! | Please read https://github.com/freenode-japanese/info
  84. [2017-07-23T13:27:45-0700] Set by CalimeroTeknik on May 12, 2017 at 4:02:53 AM PDT
  85. [2017-07-23T13:20:46-0700] <erkin> Theory as in? Linguistics?
  86. [2017-07-23T13:20:49-0700] <pingpong5> that book that someone talked about in here "read japanese today" by Len Walsh. i ordered it and read it... it's a really good book for beginning learners of kanji. and not too expensive either
  87. [2017-07-23T13:21:02-0700] <geigerCounter> erkin: Aye.
  88. [2017-07-23T13:21:25-0700] <geigerCounter> pingpong5: I'll order it then, I suppose.
  89. [2017-07-23T13:21:43-0700] <pingpong5> cool
  90. [2017-07-23T13:22:23-0700] <geigerCounter> I should like to learn all languages.
  91. [2017-07-23T13:22:25-0700] <geigerCounter> :)
  92. [2017-07-23T13:22:50-0700] <furrykef> I think I have that book...
  93. [2017-07-23T13:23:26-0700] <furrykef> yeah, I have it.
  94. [2017-07-23T13:23:34-0700] <geigerCounter> Are there channels like these for other languages?
  95. [2017-07-23T13:23:52-0700] <pingpong5> you know any similar books? i think "a guide to remembering the kanji" by Henshall is along the same lines... but it seems to be out of print
  96. [2017-07-23T13:24:05-0700] <pingpong5> geiger: i don't know
  97. [2017-07-23T13:24:23-0700] <aradesh> geigerCounter: there are far too many languages to learn
  98. [2017-07-23T13:24:47-0700] <pingpong5> there's an irc search engine: http://irc.netsplit.de/channels/
  99. [2017-07-23T13:24:49-0700] <K5> Title: IRC Search - Chat Rooms - irc.netsplit.de
  100. [2017-07-23T13:24:58-0700] <aradesh> there's a channel for lojban and mandarin
  101. [2017-07-23T13:25:08-0700] <aradesh> presumably some other language channels too
  102. [2017-07-23T13:25:35-0700] <aradesh> japanese should be enough to keep you going for at least the next 10 years :D
  103. [2017-07-23T13:25:37-0700] <geigerCounter> pingpong5: What do I do about not being able to divide words in Japanese? It sounds a lot like single-sentence words besides the little bit that I can recognize.
  104. [2017-07-23T13:26:11-0700] <geigerCounter> aradesh: I want to learn as many languages as I can before I die. I'll learn the rest after if language still exists as a concept then.
  105. [2017-07-23T13:26:13-0700] <j416> aaah can't get over how boring it is to write these mundane http client tests :/
  106. [2017-07-23T13:26:17-0700] <j416> sigh.
  107. [2017-07-23T13:26:24-0700] <pingpong5> i'm probably not the right guy to ask... my level is probably intermediate beginner
  108. [2017-07-23T13:26:59-0700] <j416> geigerCounter: you'll spend your entire life learning languages then
  109. [2017-07-23T13:27:06-0700] <j416> interesting choice :)
  110. [2017-07-23T13:27:13-0700] <pingpong5> you mean you're not able to divide the words when spoken?
  111. [2017-07-23T13:27:14-0700] <geigerCounter> j416: Why not?
  112. [2017-07-23T13:27:29-0700] <j416> if that's your thing, go for it
  113. [2017-07-23T13:27:42-0700] <geigerCounter> pingpong5: Yeah. Like after "Watashi wa" and their name and the rest of the introduction stuff.
  114. [2017-07-23T13:27:46-0700] Mode is +Cnt
  115. [2017-07-23T13:28:21-0700] <geigerCounter> It's just like "aojuowaiwaoamuomorotabadaba"
  116. [2017-07-23T13:28:39-0700] <j416> I think I lost the topic here
  117. [2017-07-23T13:28:44-0700] <pingpong5> some tips... the japanese often omit u and i in many pronunciations
  118. [2017-07-23T13:29:03-0700] <geigerCounter> One long string of syllables.
  119. [2017-07-23T13:29:16-0700] <j416> are you explaining your current level of the language?
  120. [2017-07-23T13:29:47-0700] <geigerCounter> j416: I'm asking for help at surpassing my current level of language.
  121. [2017-07-23T13:29:56-0700] <j416> what is your current level?
  122. [2017-07-23T13:30:25-0700] <geigerCounter> I could possibly figure out someone introducing themself to another person and their response.
  123. [2017-07-23T13:30:36-0700] <j416> alright
  124. [2017-07-23T13:30:46-0700] <j416> I'd focus on grammatical constructs and vocabulary
  125. [2017-07-23T13:30:59-0700] <pingpong5> also... i have the impression that if a word ends in a vowel and the next words start with the same vowel there is often no gap in between, it's pronounced like one continuous vowel... like the italians sometimes do
  126. [2017-07-23T13:31:03-0700] <geigerCounter> And I can read kana and recognize loan words.
  127. [2017-07-23T13:31:13-0700] <j416> good start!
  128. [2017-07-23T13:31:25-0700] <pingpong5> *next word
  129. [2017-07-23T13:31:28-0700] <karelian> at that point you could benefit a lot from reading through a textbook
  130. [2017-07-23T13:31:32-0700] <geigerCounter> j416: Well it's not totally accurate, I can't read hiragana without a chart.
  131. [2017-07-23T13:31:40-0700] <j416> geigerCounter: start with that then maybe
  132. [2017-07-23T13:31:55-0700] <j416> you'll need to learn it anyway if you want to progress in the language
  133. [2017-07-23T13:31:56-0700] <pingpong5> like watashi ima is pronounced watashima
  134. [2017-07-23T13:31:57-0700] slidercrank (~slidercra@ircpuzzles/2015/april-fools/fifth/slidercrank) left IRC (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
  135. [2017-07-23T13:31:58-0700] <geigerCounter> j416: Yeah, and that's quite alright, but how do I tell it apart when spoken?
  136. [2017-07-23T13:32:06-0700] <j416> tell what apart?
  137. [2017-07-23T13:32:28-0700] <geigerCounter> One word from the next word, so as to be able to mentally translate.
  138. [2017-07-23T13:32:35-0700] <pingpong5> j416: am i correct?
  139. [2017-07-23T13:32:35-0700] <j416> if you learn the words, you'll start to be able to pick them out from a sentence
  140. [2017-07-23T13:32:44-0700] <geigerCounter> j416: Okay.
  141. [2017-07-23T13:32:56-0700] <j416> pingpong5: the two i's do not merge into one, no
  142. [2017-07-23T13:33:08-0700] <j416> pingpong5: but there's not a glottal stop there, as is true for most languages
  143. [2017-07-23T13:33:22-0700] <j416> pingpong5: so, yes and no
  144. [2017-07-23T13:33:24-0700] <pingpong5> it does often in italian
  145. [2017-07-23T13:33:28-0700] <j416> really
  146. [2017-07-23T13:33:33-0700] <j416> til.
  147. [2017-07-23T13:33:34-0700] <j416> ty
  148. [2017-07-23T13:33:36-0700] <pingpong5> that's my impression anyway
  149. [2017-07-23T13:34:06-0700] <j416> I would have thought italian was rather .. flowy
  150. [2017-07-23T13:34:10-0700] <j416> not so many stops
  151. [2017-07-23T13:34:22-0700] <furrykef> j416: that's my impression too
  152. [2017-07-23T13:34:38-0700] <geigerCounter> j416: That would lead to it sounding fairly well like the same word, wouldn't it? "watashi ima" "i~i". So to confirm an impression I got, Japanese is very dependent on syllable length, ja?
  153. [2017-07-23T13:34:55-0700] <pingpong5> well. merging vowels makes for greater flow. not less
  154. [2017-07-23T13:35:00-0700] <j416> geigerCounter: listen to any language you don't know and you'll come to the same conclusion
  155. [2017-07-23T13:35:02-0700] <geigerCounter> j416: I think that's what pingpong5 was saying, that Italian words often sound like they don't have.
  156. [2017-07-23T13:35:19-0700] <j416> ah.
  157. [2017-07-23T13:35:35-0700] <geigerCounter> j416: Not really, Hebrew is usually much easier to break into component words and Spanish is also.
  158. [2017-07-23T13:35:43-0700] <j416> 22:33:07 <j416> pingpong5: but there's not a glottal stop there, as is true for most languages [i.e., most don't separate words with glottal stops]
  159. [2017-07-23T13:35:48-0700] <j416> clarification ^
  160. [2017-07-23T13:36:09-0700] <j416> geigerCounter: do you know a little bit of hebrew or spanish?
  161. [2017-07-23T13:36:27-0700] <pingpong5> if there's no glottal stop that means they merge
  162. [2017-07-23T13:36:28-0700] <geigerCounter> j416: Quite possibly, yes. I don't know that I know those languages though?
  163. [2017-07-23T13:36:35-0700] <pingpong5> isn't that what "glottal stop" means?
  164. [2017-07-23T13:36:43-0700] <geigerCounter> pingpong5: No.
  165. [2017-07-23T13:36:54-0700] <symm-> shut up and take my 金 http://i.imgur.com/MGnMm86.jpg
  166. [2017-07-23T13:36:56-0700] <K5> Type: image/jpeg; Size: 208.90KiB; Updated: 288d 4h 46m 4s ago (Sat, 08 October 2016 15:50:52 +0000)
  167. [2017-07-23T13:37:04-0700] slidercrank (~slidercra@ircpuzzles/2015/april-fools/fifth/slidercrank) joined the channel
  168. [2017-07-23T13:37:08-0700] <j416> pingpong5: my point is, if one word ends in a vowel and the next starts with the same, it doesn't magically merge into just one vowel
  169. [2017-07-23T13:37:14-0700] <j416> pingpong5: there are still two vowels present
  170. [2017-07-23T13:37:19-0700] <geigerCounter> pingpong5: A glottal stop is technically a form of consonant. In many languages it's implicit punctuation, in some it's a letter in its own right.
  171. [2017-07-23T13:37:28-0700] <symm-> .k 和
  172. [2017-07-23T13:37:29-0700] <K5> 和 ▪ Rad: 30(口) ▪ SKIP: 1-5-3 ▪ Strokes: 8 ▪ Grade: Kyōiku-3 ▪ JLPT: 2 ▪ Freq: 124 ▪ GSF: 30 ▪ Parts: 禾口 ▪ he2 he4 huo2 huo4 huo5 hai1 he5 ▪ 화(hwa) ▪ ワ オ カ ▪ やわ.らぐ やわ.らげる なご.む なご.やか ▪ Nanori: あい いず かず かつ かつり かづ たけ ち とも な にぎ まさ やす よし より わだこ わっ ▪ Hòa Họa ▪ {harmony} {Japanese style} {peace} {soften} {Japa
  173. [2017-07-23T13:37:46-0700] <robhol> "letter" may be a bit inappropriate
  174. [2017-07-23T13:37:56-0700] <j416> symm-: does that say "for the strength of the country and the wellbeing of the people"?
  175. [2017-07-23T13:37:58-0700] <symm-> 和 seems to have a grammatical role, not just "peace"
  176. [2017-07-23T13:38:07-0700] <symm-> j416: sure does
  177. [2017-07-23T13:38:14-0700] <pingpong5> i've heard that how the british sometimes pronounce say "little" as li'ul is a glottal stop
  178. [2017-07-23T13:38:17-0700] <j416> symm-: 和 means "and", at least in Mandarin
  179. [2017-07-23T13:38:25-0700] <symm-> that explains it
  180. [2017-07-23T13:38:39-0700] <geigerCounter> robhol: Aleph is its own letter in Hebrew and Arabic, and in Hebrew it still indicates a glottal stop, followed by the vowel appropriate to the word.
  181. [2017-07-23T13:39:06-0700] <geigerCounter> It developed into being used to notate vowels later on.
  182. [2017-07-23T13:39:24-0700] <robhol> Sure. It just doesn't seem like the right term. I'm not sure if "phoneme" would be better or if it's kind of a given
  183. [2017-07-23T13:39:26-0700] <j416> pingpong5: correct
  184. [2017-07-23T13:40:13-0700] <geigerCounter> Hmm... fair point, robhol. I was using it as "letter" because it's notated by one of the base graphemes of the langauge.
  185. [2017-07-23T13:40:21-0700] <karelian> grapheme? :P
  186. [2017-07-23T13:40:25-0700] <karelian> oh you said that
  187. [2017-07-23T13:40:41-0700] <robhol> karelian: you can draw a glottal stop? that's a neat trick (¬u¬)
  188. [2017-07-23T13:40:42-0700] <j416> 'scribble'
  189. [2017-07-23T13:40:47-0700] <j416> robhol: っ
  190. [2017-07-23T13:40:54-0700] <furrykef> dammit I was about to do that
  191. [2017-07-23T13:40:57-0700] <karelian> あっ！
  192. [2017-07-23T13:41:00-0700] <robhol> j416は黙っていて
  193. [2017-07-23T13:41:00-0700] <karelian> めっ！
  194. [2017-07-23T13:41:02-0700] • robhol: runs
  195. [2017-07-23T13:41:05-0700] <j416> robhol: ʔ
  196. [2017-07-23T13:41:14-0700] <robhol> but those aren't glottal stops
  197. [2017-07-23T13:41:20-0700] DJ-AN0N (~DJ-AN0N@unaffiliated/dj-an0n) left IRC (Quit: And ever and anon...)
  198. [2017-07-23T13:41:24-0700] <robhol> they're REPRESENTATIONS of glottal stops (¬u¬)
  199. [2017-07-23T13:41:27-0700] <j416> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glottal_stop
  200. [2017-07-23T13:41:28-0700] <ConductorCat> :3
  201. [2017-07-23T13:41:29-0700] <K5> Title: Glottal stop - Wikipedia
  202. [2017-07-23T13:41:31-0700] <j416> ...
  203. [2017-07-23T13:41:31-0700] <furrykef> Ceci n'est pas une pipe
  204. [2017-07-23T13:41:34-0700] <j416> ^
  205. [2017-07-23T13:41:35-0700] <robhol> dun dun DUNNNN
  206. [2017-07-23T13:41:40-0700] <geigerCounter> x-x
  207. [2017-07-23T13:41:41-0700] <j416> ceci est une banana.
  208. [2017-07-23T13:42:23-0700] <geigerCounter> robhol: How would you define a "letter" though?
  209. [2017-07-23T13:43:03-0700] <erkin> a graph
  210. [2017-07-23T13:43:10-0700] <erkin> as opposed to a grapheme
  211. [2017-07-23T13:43:20-0700] <karelian> okay you got me. I can't draw a glottal stop. but here's a drawing of me and you ﾊﾟｰﾝﾁ!(oﾟДﾟ)=======O三★)ﾟ◇ﾟ)三★))ﾟ□ﾟ)三★))ﾟ○ﾟ)
  212. [2017-07-23T13:43:31-0700] <geigerCounter> I don't feel like I'm very good at learning spoken languages.
  213. [2017-07-23T13:43:58-0700] <erkin> 和 in Mandarin comes from Arabic و
  214. [2017-07-23T13:44:06-0700] <geigerCounter> I'm more like a human text-to-speech machine.
  215. [2017-07-23T13:44:16-0700] <geigerCounter> And not a very good one at that.
  216. [2017-07-23T13:44:18-0700] <geigerCounter> ;p
  217. [2017-07-23T13:45:49-0700] <geigerCounter> One neat glitch is that whenever I overthink how a glottal stop is, I tend to make a really weird noise that is about what I approximate the noise Gollum makes is supposed to be based on reading the book.
  218. [2017-07-23T13:46:39-0700] <j416> geigerCounter: practice makes better
  219. [2017-07-23T13:46:45-0700] <pingpong5> geiger: what is your native language?
  220. [2017-07-23T13:46:49-0700] Drakkar (Hurfadurfa@ip68-3-218-2.ph.ph.cox.net) left IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  221. [2017-07-23T13:47:00-0700] <geigerCounter> pingpong5: I attest not to have one, but allegedly English.
  222. [2017-07-23T13:47:15-0700] <j416> geigerCounter: how so?
  223. [2017-07-23T13:47:55-0700] <pingpong5> another thing to learn is that japanese vowel sounds are real vowel sounds... not diphthongs as english speakers tend to pronounce them as
  224. [2017-07-23T13:47:58-0700] <zen1> geigerCounter speaks in a series of clicks
  225. [2017-07-23T13:48:04-0700] <j416> :D
  226. [2017-07-23T13:48:15-0700] <geigerCounter> I'm certainly most proficient in English and have been speaking and translating it longest and when describing my thoughts to others, do so in English, but my brain doesn't process it in "pure/real English" even by the particular dialect of my region.
  227. [2017-07-23T13:48:19-0700] <j416> not even a language with click sounds in it
  228. [2017-07-23T13:48:26-0700] <j416> a language purely based on clicks
  229. [2017-07-23T13:48:45-0700] <pingpong5> o is not pronouced like oh it is pronounced like the vowel in door
  230. [2017-07-23T13:48:48-0700] <geigerCounter> Which has a lot to do with why I seem to speak in a strange affectation of an unidentifiable accent or no accent at all.
  231. [2017-07-23T13:49:09-0700] <geigerCounter> zen1: At times, yes.
  232. [2017-07-23T13:49:14-0700] <j416> geigerCounter: where did you grow up?
  233. [2017-07-23T13:49:35-0700] <geigerCounter> j416: In a room by myself.
  234. [2017-07-23T13:49:42-0700] <j416> in what country?
  235. [2017-07-23T13:49:49-0700] <geigerCounter> The US.
  236. [2017-07-23T13:49:49-0700] Drakkar (Hurfadurfa@ip68-3-218-2.ph.ph.cox.net) joined the channel
  237. [2017-07-23T13:49:58-0700] <j416> did you ever go outside? did you go to school?
  238. [2017-07-23T13:50:06-0700] <geigerCounter> I did, yea.
  239. [2017-07-23T13:50:14-0700] <j416> alright, so English then
  240. [2017-07-23T13:50:23-0700] <pingpong5> geiger: ok... i see... did you catch my lesson?
  241. [2017-07-23T13:52:01-0700] <pingpong5> o - not "oh". but like the wovel sound in door
  242. [2017-07-23T13:52:03-0700] <geigerCounter> pingpong5: I did, but I didn't quite understand.
  243. [2017-07-23T13:52:12-0700] <geigerCounter> "wovel"?
  244. [2017-07-23T13:53:17-0700] <pingpong5> a i e u o etc.
  245. [2017-07-23T13:53:23-0700] <zen1> vowel
  246. [2017-07-23T13:53:29-0700] <pingpong5> diphtong= A complex speech sound or glide that begins with one vowel and gradually changes to another vowel within the same syllable, as (oi) in boil or (ī) in fine.
  247. [2017-07-23T13:53:51-0700] <pingpong5> wovels are usually pronounced as diphtongs in english
  248. [2017-07-23T13:53:57-0700] <pingpong5> they are not in japanese
  249. [2017-07-23T13:54:28-0700] aeolian (~realname@pool-173-70-211-150.nwrknj.fios.verizon.net) left IRC (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
  250. [2017-07-23T13:55:04-0700] <zen1> o
  251. [2017-07-23T13:55:08-0700] <pingpong5> like... i is pronounced ai... which is actually two sounds
  252. [2017-07-23T13:55:23-0700] <geigerCounter> pingpong5: Right.
  253. [2017-07-23T13:55:24-0700] <j416> that highly depends on how 'ai' is pronounced
  254. [2017-07-23T13:55:30-0700] <pingpong5> o is pronounced ou which is two sounds
  255. [2017-07-23T13:55:41-0700] <pingpong5> in english
  256. [2017-07-23T13:55:54-0700] <geigerCounter> That's the long o.
  257. [2017-07-23T13:55:55-0700] <j416> aye eye
  258. [2017-07-23T13:56:05-0700] <pingpong5> all japanese wovels are one sound only
  259. [2017-07-23T13:56:20-0700] <geigerCounter> pingpong5: Why do you refer to them as wovels?
  260. [2017-07-23T13:56:36-0700] <j416> w
  261. [2017-07-23T13:56:37-0700] <zen1> w
  262. [2017-07-23T13:56:40-0700] <pingpong5> isn't that what they're called?
  263. [2017-07-23T13:56:42-0700] <j416> sounds more fun
  264. [2017-07-23T13:56:45-0700] <j416> pingpong5: vowels
  265. [2017-07-23T13:56:50-0700] <pingpong5> oh
  266. [2017-07-23T13:57:00-0700] <geigerCounter> pingpong5: What is your native language?
  267. [2017-07-23T13:57:03-0700] <daey> what does this question mean? 2行目の都市を修飾するのは、どこからどこまでですか。
  268. [2017-07-23T13:57:06-0700] <pingpong5> i knew that
  269. [2017-07-23T13:57:09-0700] <a_a> Happy Monday!
  270. [2017-07-23T13:57:15-0700] moan (~bb@animoo.club) joined the channel
  271. [2017-07-23T13:57:16-0700] <j416> a_a++
  272. [2017-07-23T13:57:16-0700] <daey> the line number refers to a text. that is clear. so are most of the words
  273. [2017-07-23T13:57:17-0700] <j416> soon!
  274. [2017-07-23T13:57:17-0700] <K5> a_a, j416 likes you.
  275. [2017-07-23T13:57:20-0700] <pingpong5> i don't know how i got the letters mixed up
  276. [2017-07-23T13:57:26-0700] <pingpong5> native language: norwegian
  277. [2017-07-23T13:58:03-0700] <j416> daey: from where to where is the part that modifies 都市 on the second line?
  278. [2017-07-23T13:58:06-0700] <geigerCounter> pingpong5: Aren't there two variants of Norwegian?
  279. [2017-07-23T13:58:14-0700] <j416> real and fake
  280. [2017-07-23T13:58:17-0700] <ConductorCat> or 4
  281. [2017-07-23T13:58:24-0700] <erkin> There are two orthographies.
  282. [2017-07-23T13:58:27-0700] <erkin> At least standard ones.
  283. [2017-07-23T13:58:35-0700] <geigerCounter> erkin: Oh that must be what I was thinking of.
  284. [2017-07-23T13:58:57-0700] <pingpong5> there are two offcial types of written norwegian
  285. [2017-07-23T13:59:02-0700] <erkin> People speak their (highly varying) dialects but write in either Nynorsk or (usually) Bokmål
  286. [2017-07-23T13:59:05-0700] <pingpong5> i don't know if that's the way to say it
  287. [2017-07-23T13:59:06-0700] <ConductorCat> Danish Norwegian and Folk Norwegian
  288. [2017-07-23T13:59:16-0700] <zen1> that sounds far too confusing
  289. [2017-07-23T13:59:24-0700] <erkin> Well, Nynorsk is rather based on western dialects, which is pissing off other people.
  290. [2017-07-23T13:59:31-0700] moan is now known as ahhhhhhhh
  291. [2017-07-23T13:59:51-0700] <j416> confusing part is that Nynorsk is the one that is not used, even though it's called new
  292. [2017-07-23T13:59:58-0700] <j416> commonly.
  293. [2017-07-23T14:00:06-0700] <pingpong5> new norwegian is a 19th century attempt to standardize dialectal norwegian
  294. [2017-07-23T14:00:26-0700] <j416> pingpong5: does anyone use it?
  295. [2017-07-23T14:00:33-0700] <erkin> Some standardisations pick a certain dialect (e.g standard Turkish is the Istanbul dialect) but some standardisations try to 'take the average' of dialects (e.g Rumantsch Grischun of Romansh)
  296. [2017-07-23T14:00:42-0700] <pingpong5> yes
  297. [2017-07-23T14:00:50-0700] <pingpong5> i'm not really an expert on it
  298. [2017-07-23T14:00:55-0700] <pingpong5> i don't like to read it
  299. [2017-07-23T14:00:56-0700] <erkin> People in the western part.
  300. [2017-07-23T14:01:22-0700] <j416> like, people from Bergen for instance would use Nynorsk in writing?
  301. [2017-07-23T14:01:33-0700] <pingpong5> for example the norwegian translation of the kalevala i think is in nynorsk...
  302. [2017-07-23T14:01:36-0700] <erkin> I have a linguist friend who teaches Old Norse in Germany. He regularly flies to Norway to join Nynorsk congresses.
  303. [2017-07-23T14:01:58-0700] <pingpong5> j416: i think so...
  304. [2017-07-23T14:01:59-0700] <erkin> I think he did his doctorate in Iceland.
  305. [2017-07-23T14:02:02-0700] <ConductorCat> Plattdeutsch
  306. [2017-07-23T14:02:19-0700] <erkin> Yeah, Standard German is a weird standardisation too.
  307. [2017-07-23T14:02:26-0700] <pingpong5> j416: well come to think of it... they probably most of them use bokmål
  308. [2017-07-23T14:02:33-0700] <j416> pingpong5: interesting.
  309. [2017-07-23T14:02:39-0700] <daey> erkin: how so?
  310. [2017-07-23T14:02:42-0700] <j416> pingpong5: what part of Norway are you from?
  311. [2017-07-23T14:02:42-0700] <geigerCounter> I've heard that there'll be less than 100 languages in the near future.
  312. [2017-07-23T14:02:47-0700] <pingpong5> oslo
  313. [2017-07-23T14:03:03-0700] <j416> robholcity
  314. [2017-07-23T14:03:03-0700] nejm (~niels@ip51cfc7e6.direct-adsl.nl) left IRC (Quit: Ex-Chat)
  315. [2017-07-23T14:03:15-0700] <j416> robholopolis
  316. [2017-07-23T14:03:18-0700] <pingpong5> robhol is from oslo?
  317. [2017-07-23T14:03:23-0700] <j416> doubt it
  318. [2017-07-23T14:03:37-0700] <robhol> not from, no, but I live here :p
  319. [2017-07-23T14:03:38-0700] <j416> .roll robhol
  320. [2017-07-23T14:03:40-0700] <K5> For some mysterious reason robhol keeps rolling faster and faster, until a tornado is formed and he is speeded up and away into the distance.
  321. [2017-07-23T14:03:55-0700] <j416> so where are you from then, mysterious person not from oslo
  322. [2017-07-23T14:03:57-0700] <erkin> daey: It's based on a High German dialect in an otherwise Low German area.
  323. [2017-07-23T14:04:16-0700] <symm-> so on average, it's Middle German
  324. [2017-07-23T14:04:24-0700] <geigerCounter> symm-: Hehhehaah
  325. [2017-07-23T14:04:37-0700] <erkin> Central German is High German.
  326. [2017-07-23T14:04:46-0700] <erkin> But Standard German is based on High German from Hanover IIRC
  327. [2017-07-23T14:04:59-0700] <robhol> j416: Originally closer to you lot :p
  328. [2017-07-23T14:05:07-0700] <ongy> there was this "theater German" step somewhere in the mix
  329. [2017-07-23T14:05:13-0700] • j416: checks map
  330. [2017-07-23T14:05:14-0700] ahhhhhhhh (~bb@animoo.club) left IRC (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in)
  331. [2017-07-23T14:05:23-0700] moan (~bb@animoo.club) joined the channel
  332. [2017-07-23T14:05:30-0700] <erkin> And High German isn't necessarily mutually intelligible with Standard German.
  333. [2017-07-23T14:05:30-0700] • robhol: checks map over j416's shoulders
  334. [2017-07-23T14:05:45-0700] <erkin> e.g Franconian dialects like Kölsch and Ripuarian
  335. [2017-07-23T14:05:52-0700] <geigerCounter> How well do I seem to speak English, by the by?
  336. [2017-07-23T14:06:00-0700] <j416> you can only go like 100km closer to "our lot"
  337. [2017-07-23T14:06:09-0700] <erkin> Those are super weird and people hate the way they're transcribed.
  338. [2017-07-23T14:06:14-0700] <daey> erkin: hm. not sure how the dialects are distributed. the south has a strong one. the cologne area has one. the east has one and the north around hamburg has one. there are a few other hotspots e.g. saxony
  339. [2017-07-23T14:06:34-0700] <erkin> Most dialects are only colloquially (and thus inconsistently) transcribed after all.
  340. [2017-07-23T14:06:43-0700] <erkin> daey: There are dozens.
  341. [2017-07-23T14:07:10-0700] <erkin> The surviving ones at least.
  342. [2017-07-23T14:07:20-0700] <j416> I clicked a random spot close to the border
  343. [2017-07-23T14:07:21-0700] <j416> https://www.dropbox.com/s/xq65xge9xdax9rz/robhome.png?dl=0
  344. [2017-07-23T14:07:24-0700] <K5> Title: Dropbox - robhome.png
  345. [2017-07-23T14:07:29-0700] <j416> I will assume this is where you are from
  346. [2017-07-23T14:07:29-0700] <erkin> Although whether they're separate languages or dialects is another topic.
  347. [2017-07-23T14:07:34-0700] <j416> Ullbergvegen 476
  348. [2017-07-23T14:07:34-0700] aeolian (~realname@185.21.217.12) joined the channel
  349. [2017-07-23T14:07:36-0700] <j416> close?
  350. [2017-07-23T14:07:47-0700] <erkin> After all; a shprakh iz a dialekt mit an armey un flot.
  351. [2017-07-23T14:07:47-0700] <daey> the north east (coast) seems to be very 'dialect free'
  352. [2017-07-23T14:08:24-0700] <erkin> Mecklenburgish and Low Prussian
  353. [2017-07-23T14:08:49-0700] <erkin> https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mecklenburgisch-Vorpommersch
  354. [2017-07-23T14:08:51-0700] <K5> Title: Mecklenburgisch-Vorpommersch – Wikipedia
  355. [2017-07-23T14:08:55-0700] <daey> yeah
  356. [2017-07-23T14:08:59-0700] <robhol> j416: not even close (¬u¬)
  357. [2017-07-23T14:09:03-0700] <j416> D:
  358. [2017-07-23T14:09:09-0700] <daey> https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/5b/Continental_West_Germanic_languages.png
  359. [2017-07-23T14:09:09-0700] <erkin> As everyone knows, robhol lives in robholia
  360. [2017-07-23T14:09:10-0700] <K5> Type: image/png; Size: 165.89KiB; Updated: 78d 11h 49m 39s ago (Sat, 06 May 2017 09:19:31 +0000)
  361. [2017-07-23T14:09:23-0700] <j416> erkin: robholand I thought
  362. [2017-07-23T14:09:31-0700] <erkin> That's the archaic word for it.
  363. [2017-07-23T14:09:34-0700] <j416> ah.
  364. [2017-07-23T14:09:42-0700] <erkin> Although it's often anglicised as 'robholistan'
  365. [2017-07-23T14:09:53-0700] <daey> if you happen to grew up in 16. sucide is the only solution :P
  366. [2017-07-23T14:09:55-0700] <j416> XD
  367. [2017-07-23T14:10:07-0700] <erkin> rip
  368. [2017-07-23T14:10:11-0700] <zen1> and the capital city
  369. [2017-07-23T14:10:15-0700] <zen1> Robholopolis
  370. [2017-07-23T14:10:22-0700] <erkin> robholville
  371. [2017-07-23T14:10:23-0700] <j416> zen1: nod
  372. [2017-07-23T14:10:27-0700] <robhol> j416: it's more or less as far from Oslo as that, though
  373. [2017-07-23T14:10:28-0700] <zen1> thats the suburb erkin
  374. [2017-07-23T14:10:33-0700] <erkin> makes sense
  375. [2017-07-23T14:10:36-0700] <erkin> Is it the capital?
  376. [2017-07-23T14:10:38-0700] <j416> suburbkin
  377. [2017-07-23T14:10:58-0700] <zen1> and dont forget the sneep , national dish of robholia
  378. [2017-07-23T14:11:11-0700] <geigerCounter> Wait a minute.
  379. [2017-07-23T14:11:14-0700] <geigerCounter> Question.
  380. [2017-07-23T14:11:15-0700] <zen1> delishis fishis
  381. [2017-07-23T14:11:19-0700] <j416> http://www.hol-vastgoedadvies.nl/
  382. [2017-07-23T14:11:20-0700] <K5> Title: Homepage - hol-vastgoedadvies.nl
  383. [2017-07-23T14:11:37-0700] <erkin> sneepese ambassador criticised the country's cuisine with strongly worded letters on many occasions.
  384. [2017-07-23T14:11:38-0700] <daey> robholistan is terrorized by sneepurists. who claim they have a right of the northern part
  385. [2017-07-23T14:11:44-0700] <geigerCounter> Who among you would be interested in creating an artificial landmass?
  386. [2017-07-23T14:11:49-0700] <j416> sneepers all over the place
  387. [2017-07-23T14:11:52-0700] <erkin> *crickets*
  388. [2017-07-23T14:11:54-0700] <daey> +D
  389. [2017-07-23T14:12:11-0700] <robhol> geigerCounter: you mean as in worldcrafting or whatever, or a ##japanese island :p
  390. [2017-07-23T14:12:33-0700] tuxdev_ (~tim@unaffiliated/tuxdev) left IRC (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
  391. [2017-07-23T14:12:34-0700] <j416> don't mind robhol, he speaks robhaelic
  392. [2017-07-23T14:12:36-0700] <j416> very hard to understand
  393. [2017-07-23T14:12:53-0700] <robhol> Σ(-`Д´-ﾉ；)ﾉ
  394. [2017-07-23T14:13:04-0700] <j416> ^ this is their rune script
  395. [2017-07-23T14:13:08-0700] <robhol> only hard if you're a Swede
  396. [2017-07-23T14:13:10-0700] <erkin> Ah, I can't understand it as a mere Standard Robholish speaker.
  397. [2017-07-23T14:13:11-0700] <geigerCounter> robhol: As in... literally creating a new Pacific landmass.
  398. [2017-07-23T14:13:12-0700] • robhol: ε＝ε＝ε＝┌( ﾟ∀ﾟ)┘
  399. [2017-07-23T14:13:25-0700] <erkin> geigerCounter: Have fun not getting invaded by China
  400. [2017-07-23T14:13:37-0700] <erkin> .s/Have fun/Good luck/
  401. [2017-07-23T14:13:38-0700] <K5> geigerCounter: Good luck not getting invaded by China
  402. [2017-07-23T14:13:54-0700] <geigerCounter> All I have to do is have no GDP.
  403. [2017-07-23T14:14:02-0700] <robhol> .s/not //
  404. [2017-07-23T14:14:03-0700] <K5> geigerCounter: Have fun getting invaded by China
  405. [2017-07-23T14:14:06-0700] <geigerCounter> Then I won't be worth invading.
  406. [2017-07-23T14:14:20-0700] <j416> .s/invading/anything/
  407. [2017-07-23T14:14:21-0700] <K5> Then I won't be worth anything.
  408. [2017-07-23T14:14:26-0700] <moan> s/China/India
  409. [2017-07-23T14:14:30-0700] <moan> .s/China/India
  410. [2017-07-23T14:14:33-0700] <K5> s/India/India
  411. [2017-07-23T14:14:36-0700] <j416> w
  412. [2017-07-23T14:14:36-0700] <geigerCounter> j416: True.
  413. [2017-07-23T14:14:37-0700] <robhol> w
  414. [2017-07-23T14:14:37-0700] <moan> ew
  415. [2017-07-23T14:14:44-0700] <erkin> China is willing to invade completely insignificant rocks just to get larger sea borders.
  416. [2017-07-23T14:14:59-0700] <erkin> Also Taiwan, Japan, Brunei, Vietnam et al
  417. [2017-07-23T14:15:07-0700] <robhol> erkin: you mean those islands that were rightfully theirs all along? #trololo
  418. [2017-07-23T14:15:07-0700] <erkin> But they're rather passive about it.
  419. [2017-07-23T14:15:15-0700] <erkin> :smugAnimeGirl:
  420. [2017-07-23T14:15:37-0700] <j416> I should head off to bed so that tomorrow arrives faster.
  421. [2017-07-23T14:15:39-0700] <j416> todi o/
  422. [2017-07-23T14:15:42-0700] • j416: zzZ
  423. [2017-07-23T14:15:43-0700] <erkin> oh shit
  424. [2017-07-23T14:15:45-0700] <erkin> I have work tomorrow
  425. [2017-07-23T14:15:45-0700] tuxdev_ (~tim@47.142.143.205) joined the channel
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  428. [2017-07-23T14:15:46-0700] <erkin> fuck fuck
  429. [2017-07-23T14:15:58-0700] <erkin> GOOD NIGHT
  430. [2017-07-23T14:15:59-0700] erkin (~erkin@unaffiliated/erkin) left IRC (Quit: Ouch! Got SIGABRT, dying...)
  431. [2017-07-23T14:17:31-0700] <a_a> robhol world's robohic roboholiers
  432. [2017-07-23T14:17:55-0700] <a_a> robholic*
  433. [2017-07-23T14:19:01-0700] <robhol> :o
  434. [2017-07-23T14:19:41-0700] <a_a> robhol: was that link sneep?
  435. [2017-07-23T14:25:32-0700] AMD|FX-8350 (~Ruinan_Di@47.187.203.20) joined the channel
  436. [2017-07-23T14:25:54-0700] <zen1> heh
  437. [2017-07-23T14:25:59-0700] <zen1> whats the current time in turkey
  438. [2017-07-23T14:26:04-0700] <zen1> 4 am?
  439. [2017-07-23T14:26:08-0700] <zen1> poor erkin
  440. [2017-07-23T14:26:24-0700] <zen1> .tell erkin 仕事お疲れ様でしたw
  441. [2017-07-23T14:26:25-0700] <K5> zen1: Will do.
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  448. [2017-07-23T14:32:17-0700]
  449. [2017-07-23T14:32:17-0700] ------------- End Session -------------
  450. [2017-07-23T14:32:17-0700]
  451. [2017-07-23T14:33:13-0700]
  452. [2017-07-23T14:33:13-0700] ------------- Begin Session -------------
  453. [2017-07-23T14:33:13-0700]
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  455. [2017-07-23T14:33:15-0700] Topic is Welcome to the channel! | Please read https://github.com/freenode-japanese/info
  456. [2017-07-23T14:33:15-0700] Set by CalimeroTeknik on May 12, 2017 at 4:02:53 AM PDT
  457. [2017-07-23T14:33:15-0700] Mode is +Cnt
  458. [2017-07-23T14:36:53-0700]
  459. [2017-07-23T14:36:53-0700] ------------- End Session -------------
  460. [2017-07-23T14:36:53-0700]
  461. [2017-07-23T14:37:55-0700]
  462. [2017-07-23T14:37:55-0700] ------------- Begin Session -------------
  463. [2017-07-23T14:37:55-0700]
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  465. [2017-07-23T14:37:56-0700] Topic is Welcome to the channel! | Please read https://github.com/freenode-japanese/info
  466. [2017-07-23T14:37:56-0700] Set by CalimeroTeknik on May 12, 2017 at 4:02:53 AM PDT
  467. [2017-07-23T14:37:57-0700] Mode is +Cnt
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  477. [2017-07-23T15:02:15-0700] <aradesh> .seen AhoChan
  478. [2017-07-23T15:02:16-0700] <K5> AhoChan was last seen 1 week ago in this channel saying: makes sense, you sholudn't try to cook potatoes with your computer
  479. [2017-07-23T15:04:12-0700] <aradesh> geigerCounter: i was tihnking i'd like to try to learn a new language every 10 years. i was thinking that 1 or 2 years ago, now i'm thinking japanese will probably suffice :P
  480. [2017-07-23T15:04:32-0700] <geigerCounter> aradesh: Why?
  481. [2017-07-23T15:05:19-0700] <aradesh> it's hard
  482. [2017-07-23T15:05:30-0700] <geigerCounter> aradesh: So?
  483. [2017-07-23T15:05:40-0700] <aradesh> i'll probably need more than 10 years
  484. [2017-07-23T15:06:08-0700] <geigerCounter> Ah.
  485. [2017-07-23T15:06:13-0700] <aradesh> depends what level i guess one wants to learn a language to
  486. [2017-07-23T15:07:05-0700] <aradesh> maybe i'll decide to learn another one one day ^^ but i am trying to limit myself to one right now
  487. [2017-07-23T15:07:20-0700] <aradesh> it's too easy for me to get distracted
  488. [2017-07-23T15:07:32-0700] SH0CKS (~SH0CKS@71.19.248.193) joined the channel
  489. [2017-07-23T15:08:35-0700] <geigerCounter> aradesh: I've heard it gets easier after the fourth language.
  490. [2017-07-23T15:08:38-0700] Asa (~Asa@unaffiliated/asa) left IRC (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
  491. [2017-07-23T15:08:39-0700] <aradesh> i was thinking that i might like to learn persian, and then i noticed that where i live there are many polish immigrants, so i was thinking i might like to learn polish
  492. [2017-07-23T15:08:47-0700] <aradesh> hehe, well i'm trying to learn my second ^^
  493. [2017-07-23T15:09:15-0700] <aradesh> how about you?
  494. [2017-07-23T15:09:17-0700] <geigerCounter> aradesh: Polish orthography is amazing.
  495. [2017-07-23T15:09:25-0700] <geigerCounter> And I don't know any language.
  496. [2017-07-23T15:09:27-0700] <aradesh> what is orthography?
  497. [2017-07-23T15:09:32-0700] <aradesh> not even english?
  498. [2017-07-23T15:09:46-0700] <aradesh> i mean i know english, and i'm trying to learn japanese as my second
  499. [2017-07-23T15:10:01-0700] <aradesh> most people in this channel seem to know 3 or more languages :O
  500. [2017-07-23T15:10:14-0700] <aradesh> usually english, their native (non-english) language, and japanese
  501. [2017-07-23T15:10:46-0700] <geigerCounter> aradesh: orthography is the writing system and spelling.
  502. [2017-07-23T15:11:32-0700] <geigerCounter> Heh, I don't consider myself to know English fluently.
  503. [2017-07-23T15:11:34-0700] <aradesh> ah
  504. [2017-07-23T15:11:45-0700] <aradesh> isn't it your native language?
  505. [2017-07-23T15:11:48-0700] <geigerCounter> But I know more of English than others.
  506. [2017-07-23T15:12:02-0700] <geigerCounter> Yeah, I suppose so.
  507. [2017-07-23T15:12:37-0700] <aradesh> there is a simpsons episode where they meet one of milhouse's italian relatives (pizza shop guy) and someone speaks to him in italian and he says, "i'm sorry ah i only speak what you say... broken english"
  508. [2017-07-23T15:12:39-0700] <aradesh> xD
  509. [2017-07-23T15:13:01-0700] <geigerCounter> Ehhehheha.
  510. [2017-07-23T15:13:07-0700] <aradesh> like you then?
  511. [2017-07-23T15:13:09-0700] <aradesh> ^^
  512. [2017-07-23T15:13:17-0700] <geigerCounter> I s'pose.
  513. [2017-07-23T15:13:25-0700] <geigerCounter> Though do any of us actually speak English?
  514. [2017-07-23T15:13:29-0700] <geigerCounter> It's sort of a dead language.
  515. [2017-07-23T15:13:52-0700] <geigerCounter> I tried to learn it once.
  516. [2017-07-23T15:13:56-0700] <aradesh> well, modern english
  517. [2017-07-23T15:14:07-0700] <aradesh> in its various dialectical guises
  518. [2017-07-23T15:14:18-0700] <geigerCounter> Mmm, lol.
  519. [2017-07-23T15:14:34-0700] <geigerCounter> I suppose...
  520. [2017-07-23T15:14:49-0700] <geigerCounter> I wish I had kept up my studies of Old English.
  521. [2017-07-23T15:15:04-0700] <aradesh> there is an old english wikipedia
  522. [2017-07-23T15:15:09-0700] <geigerCounter> Really?
  523. [2017-07-23T15:15:15-0700] <aradesh> i think so
  524. [2017-07-23T15:15:17-0700] <aradesh> let me see
  525. [2017-07-23T15:16:39-0700] symm- (~symm-@95.65.81.202) left IRC (Quit: Leaving...)
  526. [2017-07-23T15:17:00-0700] <aradesh> https://ang.wikipedia.org/wiki/Englisc_spr%C7%A3c
  527. [2017-07-23T15:17:01-0700] <K5> Title: Nīwenglisc sprǣc - Wikipǣdia, sēo frēo wīsdōmbōc
  528. [2017-07-23T15:17:09-0700] <geigerCounter> Ooooo!
  529. [2017-07-23T15:17:11-0700] <geigerCounter> Thank you.
  530. [2017-07-23T15:17:50-0700] <geigerCounter> :D
  531. [2017-07-23T15:17:55-0700] <geigerCounter> This is awesome.
  532. [2017-07-23T15:17:58-0700] <aradesh> ran by students of the language, presumably
  533. [2017-07-23T15:18:03-0700] <geigerCounter> I suppose.
  534. [2017-07-23T15:18:12-0700] <aradesh> or secret natives
  535. [2017-07-23T15:18:14-0700] <geigerCounter> I love that they use Wynn!
  536. [2017-07-23T15:18:18-0700] <aradesh> who modern technology doesn't know about
  537. [2017-07-23T15:18:18-0700] <geigerCounter> :o
  538. [2017-07-23T15:18:24-0700] <geigerCounter> Secret natives???
  539. [2017-07-23T15:18:32-0700] <geigerCounter> Don't get me excited like that.
  540. [2017-07-23T15:18:33-0700] <aradesh> maybe there is some secret sect
  541. [2017-07-23T15:18:35-0700] <aradesh> xD
  542. [2017-07-23T15:18:51-0700] <geigerCounter> Also, I want to know where the secret Welsh are.
  543. [2017-07-23T15:18:58-0700] <aradesh> living in some caves under oxford, or something
  544. [2017-07-23T15:18:59-0700] aeolian (~realname@185.21.217.12) left IRC (Quit: Leaving)
  545. [2017-07-23T15:19:27-0700] <geigerCounter> O.
  546. [2017-07-23T15:19:35-0700] <aradesh> or should i say Oxnaford
  547. [2017-07-23T15:19:50-0700] <geigerCounter> https://ang.wikipedia.org/wiki/Willelm_Scacaspere
  548. [2017-07-23T15:19:52-0700] <K5> Title: Willelm Scacaspere - Wikipǣdia, sēo frēo wīsdōmbōc
  549. [2017-07-23T15:20:01-0700] <geigerCounter> Also, good to confirm what I thought I knew about Old English.
  550. [2017-07-23T15:20:36-0700] <aradesh> if you translate that article does it say something like, "willelm scacaspere is a man who ruined the english language"
  551. [2017-07-23T15:20:54-0700] ckman (~con@58-7-134-183.dyn.iinet.net.au) left IRC (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
  552. [2017-07-23T15:20:55-0700] <geigerCounter> "sc" = "sch" = "sh" = "ſ"
  553. [2017-07-23T15:22:21-0700] <geigerCounter> So many redlinks of the Anglisc Wikipedia
  554. [2017-07-23T15:22:53-0700] <aradesh> shame
  555. [2017-07-23T15:22:57-0700] <aradesh> because it's small
  556. [2017-07-23T15:23:03-0700] <geigerCounter> Ja.
  557. [2017-07-23T15:25:02-0700] <geigerCounter> Also, Ēastermōnaþ "Easter month"
  558. [2017-07-23T15:25:04-0700] <geigerCounter> :D
  559. [2017-07-23T15:25:45-0700] rypervenche (~rypervenc@unaffiliated/rypervenche) left IRC (Quit: reboot)
  560. [2017-07-23T15:26:09-0700] <geigerCounter> Also, why doesn't Modern English still use diacritics?
  561. [2017-07-23T15:27:26-0700] <aradesh> dunno
  562. [2017-07-23T15:27:40-0700] <aradesh> must have gone out of fashion at some point
  563. [2017-07-23T15:28:29-0700] <geigerCounter> Yeah, probably cos of the printing press.
  564. [2017-07-23T15:28:45-0700] <aradesh> i thought they went earlier than that
  565. [2017-07-23T15:28:47-0700] <geigerCounter> Cos that's what drove the letter thorn and edd out of existence.
  566. [2017-07-23T15:28:51-0700] <aradesh> i mean, they didn't use them in shakespears time did they?
  567. [2017-07-23T15:28:53-0700] <geigerCounter> Huh, they might have.
  568. [2017-07-23T15:28:56-0700] <geigerCounter> I dunno.
  569. [2017-07-23T15:29:27-0700] <geigerCounter> I don't know if they did or not.
  570. [2017-07-23T15:30:52-0700] <geigerCounter> I still use them in my manuscripts though.
  571. [2017-07-23T15:30:55-0700] rypervenche (~rypervenc@unaffiliated/rypervenche) joined the channel
  572. [2017-07-23T15:31:04-0700] <geigerCounter> Especially when I'm not writing in English.
  573. [2017-07-23T15:33:25-0700] <geigerCounter> I wish I understood all of what I was writing.
  574. [2017-07-23T15:33:59-0700] <geigerCounter> Also, apparently when I was a little kid I wrote in binary.
  575. [2017-07-23T15:34:20-0700] <aradesh> maybe that is your native language
  576. [2017-07-23T15:34:23-0700] <geigerCounter> ... It creeped my mother out a little, but she had a good sense of humour about it.
  577. [2017-07-23T15:34:44-0700] <geigerCounter> Maybe.
  578. [2017-07-23T15:34:54-0700] <geigerCounter> I'd like to discover what my native language is.
  579. [2017-07-23T15:35:18-0700] <geigerCounter> I've figured out a few words before, but I forgot what they were.
  580. [2017-07-23T15:36:00-0700] <aradesh> are you adopted?
  581. [2017-07-23T15:36:10-0700] • geigerCounter: scratches head
  582. [2017-07-23T15:36:12-0700] <geigerCounter> No.
  583. [2017-07-23T15:36:23-0700] <geigerCounter> Why?
  584. [2017-07-23T15:36:43-0700] <aradesh> well you could have been brought up by foreign parents, so learnt another language in your early years
  585. [2017-07-23T15:37:08-0700] <geigerCounter> Nah, sadly no. I wish. I use that as a plot point in my book though.
  586. [2017-07-23T15:39:13-0700] <geigerCounter> I think I've used that as a plot point in multiple of my books, actually.
  587. [2017-07-23T15:39:37-0700] <geigerCounter> But I discarded most of my early works
  588. [2017-07-23T15:42:03-0700] <geigerCounter> I also conlang as a hobby.
  589. [2017-07-23T15:42:05-0700] <geigerCounter> It's really fun.
  590. [2017-07-23T15:43:50-0700] <geigerCounter> But also, I dunno. Diacritics make writing take up so much less space. :)
  591. [2017-07-23T15:47:52-0700] <geigerCounter> aradesh: Have you ever tried constructing a language?
  592. [2017-07-23T15:48:07-0700] <aradesh> nope
  593. [2017-07-23T15:48:12-0700] <aradesh> i tried to learn a bit about lojban once though
  594. [2017-07-23T15:48:12-0700] <geigerCounter> It's fun.
  595. [2017-07-23T15:48:20-0700] <geigerCounter> aradesh: How is lojban?
  596. [2017-07-23T15:48:31-0700] <aradesh> it looks unique
  597. [2017-07-23T15:48:33-0700] <aradesh> it's a conlang
  598. [2017-07-23T15:48:44-0700] <geigerCounter> I know what it is, but I've never tried it myself.
  599. [2017-07-23T15:49:05-0700] <geigerCounter> How does it look unique?
  600. [2017-07-23T15:49:37-0700] <aradesh> lots of short words with weird letter combinations
  601. [2017-07-23T15:49:41-0700] <aradesh> it's interesting though
  602. [2017-07-23T15:49:50-0700] <geigerCounter> Hmm.
  603. [2017-07-23T15:49:54-0700] <aradesh> this is what it looks like https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lojban#The_North_Wind_and_the_Sun
  604. [2017-07-23T15:49:56-0700] <K5> Title: Lojban - Wikipedia
  605. [2017-07-23T15:50:09-0700] <geigerCounter> Would you be interested into heading over to my IRC net to work on a conlang?
  606. [2017-07-23T15:50:43-0700] <moan> mate
  607. [2017-07-23T15:50:44-0700] <moan> you scare me
  608. [2017-07-23T15:50:57-0700] <geigerCounter> moan: Que?
  609. [2017-07-23T15:50:57-0700] <aradesh> nah i've got too many other things to work on :3
  610. [2017-07-23T15:51:14-0700] <moan> you wrote in binary?
  611. [2017-07-23T15:51:19-0700] <geigerCounter> aradesh: Fair enough, so do I, but not today. I'm'a work on it tomorrow.
  612. [2017-07-23T15:51:26-0700] <geigerCounter> moan: I have at several points in my life yet.
  613. [2017-07-23T15:51:49-0700] <moan> how hard were you tripping?
  614. [2017-07-23T15:51:58-0700] <aradesh> well i liked writing in secret codes when i was a kid
  615. [2017-07-23T15:52:03-0700] <aradesh> so it didn't seem too strange to me
  616. [2017-07-23T15:52:34-0700] <geigerCounter> moan: Well, I only remember doing it three times as a kid and I don't really know what I was writing, if ever I did.
  617. [2017-07-23T15:52:45-0700] <geigerCounter> I just don't remember where I learned about binary anyway.
  618. [2017-07-23T15:54:04-0700] <geigerCounter> I remember back when I was in middle school or maybe early highschool I took sheet music of the Tetris theme and programmed a computer's internal speaker to play it.
  619. [2017-07-23T15:54:32-0700] <geigerCounter> So at least I knew what I was doing then.
  620. [2017-07-23T15:56:13-0700] <geigerCounter> Huh, Lojban looks weird.
  621. [2017-07-23T15:57:47-0700] <WibbleWB> mi nalceikri
  622. [2017-07-23T15:57:50-0700] <geigerCounter> moan: Do you have any interest in conlang?
  623. [2017-07-23T15:57:55-0700] <moan> the hell is conlang
  624. [2017-07-23T15:58:39-0700] <aradesh> hi wibblewb
  625. [2017-07-23T15:58:48-0700] <aradesh> COMMUNISM!
  626. [2017-07-23T15:58:49-0700] <WibbleWB> oioi
  627. [2017-07-23T15:58:53-0700] <geigerCounter> moan: A "constructed language". A language artifically invented by a single person or a small group for various purposes. Also, how is your name pronounced?
  628. [2017-07-23T15:58:53-0700] <WibbleWB> lol
  629. [2017-07-23T15:59:11-0700] <WibbleWB> mi nalceikri = I'm an atheist (in lojban)
  630. [2017-07-23T15:59:43-0700] <geigerCounter> WibbleWB: Is that part of the Lojban primer?
  631. [2017-07-23T16:00:21-0700] <WibbleWB> primer?
  632. [2017-07-23T16:00:54-0700] <geigerCounter> A semi-archaic word for an introductory textbook, for a new learner of the topic.
  633. [2017-07-23T16:01:10-0700] <aradesh> 「軍が銃灘で撃つ」 why is the particle で here and not を? it's from this larger sentence: 「１９８９年、国を民主化してほしいと言って北京の天安門広場に集まった学生たちを、軍が銃などで撃った事件がありました。」
  634. [2017-07-23T16:01:30-0700] <WibbleWB> I don't remember that...
  635. [2017-07-23T16:01:45-0700] <geigerCounter> WibbleWB: Don't remember what?
  636. [2017-07-23T16:02:39-0700] <WibbleWB> .j 銃灘
  637. [2017-07-23T16:02:41-0700] <K5> No hits for "銃灘" in EDICT2.
  638. [2017-07-23T16:02:44-0700] farstrider (~farstride@61.196.205.96) joined the channel
  639. [2017-07-23T16:03:00-0700] <aradesh> oops
  640. [2017-07-23T16:03:07-0700] <aradesh> i mean 銃など
  641. [2017-07-23T16:03:30-0700] <geigerCounter> WibbleWB: How would you say "I am a Christian" in lojban?
  642. [2017-07-23T16:04:35-0700] <furrykef> aradesh: で of instrument
  643. [2017-07-23T16:04:44-0700] <WibbleWB> mi kri...
  644. [2017-07-23T16:04:52-0700] <furrykef> 鉛筆で書きました. Same idea.
  645. [2017-07-23T16:05:23-0700] <aradesh> thanks
  646. [2017-07-23T16:05:42-0700] <geigerCounter> WibbleWB: Also, are you an atheist?
  647. [2017-07-23T16:06:31-0700] <furrykef> aradesh: you'll notice 撃った already has an object marked with を
  648. [2017-07-23T16:06:31-0700] fran (~fran@r167-58-115-151.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy) left IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  649. [2017-07-23T16:06:40-0700] <WibbleWB> mi xiriso
  650. [2017-07-23T16:06:48-0700] fran (~fran@r167-58-97-184.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy) joined the channel
  651. [2017-07-23T16:07:05-0700] <geigerCounter> "xiriso" interesting...
  652. [2017-07-23T16:07:07-0700] <geigerCounter> Why?
  653. [2017-07-23T16:07:10-0700] <WibbleWB> ^ I'm a Christian
  654. [2017-07-23T16:07:13-0700] <geigerCounter> Right.
  655. [2017-07-23T16:07:20-0700] <aradesh> ah right 学生たち
  656. [2017-07-23T16:07:22-0700] <WibbleWB> yes I'm atheist
  657. [2017-07-23T16:07:23-0700] <geigerCounter> But where does the suffix come from?
  658. [2017-07-23T16:07:30-0700] <aradesh> thanks furrykef
  659. [2017-07-23T16:07:46-0700] <furrykef> you're welcome
  660. [2017-07-23T16:08:16-0700] <geigerCounter> WibbleWB: So do you hold by the idea that we're living in a simulation?
  661. [2017-07-23T16:09:07-0700] <WibbleWB> https://glosbe.com/en/jbo/Christian
  662. [2017-07-23T16:09:08-0700] <K5> Title: Christian in Lojban, translation, English-Lojban Dictionary
  663. [2017-07-23T16:10:18-0700] <geigerCounter> Nice.
  664. [2017-07-23T16:10:25-0700] <aradesh> おやすみなさい
  665. [2017-07-23T16:10:27-0700] <WibbleWB> I'm not a lojibanist
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