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JaysonSunshine

An Uncharacteristically Low Quality Argument from RM

JaysonSunshine
Apr 25th, 2018
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  1. 4:52:50 PM+RenaissanceManWhich was a truly remarkable thing. Who exactly was responsible for letting a world leader deliver a speech like that in front of congress? I can't beleive that somebody who had the power to stop it knew exactly what was in that speech before it was delivered.
  2. 4:53:15 PM← fred__w has quit (Quit: Leaving)
  3. 4:53:45 PM+RenaissanceManHey banquo :-)
  4. 4:54:42 PM+RenaissanceManbarabbas`: I think you'e got it the wrong way around. Trump HATES Macron because Macron has a bigger military parade.
  5. 4:55:08 PM+LowInformationVoterMacron appears to be a good statesman.
  6. 4:55:11 PM+LowInformationVoterTrump is a Russian traitor.
  7. 4:55:30 PM+LowInformationVoterRemember that Macron was in a tight race with LePen, noted Russian sycophant.
  8. 4:55:50 PM+LowInformationVoterImagine if Russia had been successful in disrupting their election, as they were with American in 2016.
  9. 4:56:56 PM+RenaissanceManMore specifically, a BIGGER military parade.
  10. 4:57:08 PM+RenaissanceManA Huuuge one.
  11. 4:57:32 PM+RenaissanceManBanquo: Nope. I am done. I cannot and will not watch another comic book movie.
  12. 4:57:50 PM+LowInformationVoterRenaissanceMan: You didn't respond to my PM.
  13. 4:58:05 PMⓘ barabbas` is now known as barabbas`afk
  14. 4:58:50 PM+LowInformationVoterI wanted to give you a chance to observe reality.
  15. 4:58:51 PM→ Joel has joined
  16. 4:58:54 PMⓘ Profound set mode +v Joel
  17. 4:59:16 PM+RenaissanceManBanquo: I've just seen too many of them. I just can't handle another movie that caters to the lowest possible common denominator.
  18. 4:59:25 PM+LowInformationVoterFrance, thank you for trying to help America through this time of proto-fascism at the hands of the GOP.
  19. 4:59:47 PM+RenaissanceManBanquo: At least disney movies have sophisticated stuff for grownups.
  20. 5:00:35 PM+RenaissanceManLowInformationVoter: I couldn't figure out what bx had done. As a rule I have a lot of respect for bx's judgement.
  21. 5:00:50 PM+LowInformationVoterRenaissanceMan: He removed my voice for having a mind that is different than his.
  22. 5:01:09 PM+LowInformationVoterHe needed all reality -- including reality found as it is in the minds of fellow humans -- to mirror precisely his preferences.
  23. 5:01:34 PM+LowInformationVoterAnd when he didn't get that he made a decision for an entire community, after failing to respond to allegations against of his peer operators of repeated abuse.
  24. 5:01:39 PM+LowInformationVoterThat was not admirable behavior.
  25. 5:01:52 PM+LowInformationVoterAnd it was part of reality. It's important that we honestly evaluate reality.
  26. 5:02:30 PM+LowInformationVoterTo such behavior, we should say, That is not admirable. If, later, that same person does something admirable, we should say, That was admirable.
  27. 5:02:53 PM← Achduke7 has quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.9.1)
  28. 5:03:04 PM+LowInformationVoterThis kind of persistently honest evaluation of people -- regardless of their factional association with us -- is at the very heart of the Enlightenment.
  29. 5:03:10 PM+RenaissanceManBanquo: The first 300 were good. But now that we're doing the 10,000th, the novelty has worn off.
  30. 5:03:32 PM← Jarod has quit (Ping timeout)
  31. 5:04:34 PM+RenaissanceManBanquo: And the team movies i find are particularly aggregious. The team comic in their original incarnation were unreadable. And the team movies that I've seen seem to suffer from the same problem. Too Many Characters; Not Enough Plot.
  32. 5:05:42 PM+RenaissanceManTeam behaves badly toward each other. Right down to the last 15 minutes of the movie. At which point after everything bad that could possible happen has, they rally together, suspend all rules of physics and literature, and magically win.
  33. 5:06:21 PM+RenaissanceManBanquo: Fantastic Four, Avengers, &c. That was where the comic universe had evolved to when I was a kid.
  34. 5:06:28 PM+LowInformationVoterRenaissanceMan: Do you agree that noting only positive things, while not noting anti-positive things is a kind of dishonesty?
  35. 5:07:29 PM+RenaissanceManLowInformationVoter: it's a kind of a lot of things. A kind of politeness. A kind of optimism about the fundamental decency of human beings.
  36. 5:07:41 PM+LowInformationVoterAgreed.
  37. 5:07:49 PM+LowInformationVoterIs it also a kind of dishonesty?
  38. 5:07:52 PM+LowInformationVoterIt's okay to say the words.
  39. 5:08:00 PM+RenaissanceManBanquo: Which is probably 2 characters too many for a 20 page comic that has 12 pages of sea monkey ads. ;-P
  40. 5:08:07 PM+LowInformationVoterHere is what I believe, RenaissanceMan:
  41. 5:08:19 PM+LowInformationVoterI believe that you have a negative opinion of most of the Christians in this room, as their behavior is often not very admirable.
  42. 5:08:34 PM+LowInformationVoterI believe you have observed some positive behavior in BlackXanthus, and you're eager to support that good behavior.
  43. 5:08:41 PM+RenaissanceManLowInformationVoter: I do. But I also happen to have a very high opinion of BlackXanthus.
  44. 5:08:52 PM+LowInformationVoterFurthermore, you may fear that holding him to account for both his positive and anti-positive behavior may result in a worse relationship with him.
  45. 5:09:13 PM+LowInformationVoterRenaissanceMan: What did you think of his behavior when he devoiced somebody for having a different view of the world?
  46. 5:09:20 PM+LowInformationVoterIt's okay to say the words.
  47. 5:09:36 PM+RenaissanceManLowInformationVoter: i looked, but I couldn't actually find the exchange in the backscroll.
  48. 5:09:56 PM+LowInformationVoterhttps://pastebin.com/NTKnSFKN
  49. 5:10:01 PM+LowInformationVoterI have a pristine record for you.
  50. 5:10:01 PM← Moriar has quit (Ping timeout)
  51. 5:10:21 PM+RenaissanceManLowInformationVoter: And there are, frankly, much more important issue at hand, like whether The Hulk is great literature. ;-)
  52. 5:10:30 PM+LowInformationVoterRenaissanceMan: Why not both?
  53. 5:11:06 PM+LowInformationVoterWhat prevents you from talk about comic book movies, noting you generally hold BlackXanthus is "very high opinion", and that this action I'm describing was not admirable.
  54. 5:11:11 PM+LowInformationVoterYou're circle walking, RenaissanceMan.
  55. 5:11:13 PM+LowInformationVoterIt's dishonest.
  56. 5:11:23 PM+LowInformationVoterYou have found time for some things, while refusing to find times for other things.
  57. 5:11:27 PM+LowInformationVoterThis is not admirable behavior on your part.
  58. 5:11:47 PM+LowInformationVoterhttps://www.energyarts.com/bagua-circle-walking
  59. 5:12:05 PM+LowInformationVoterCircle walking is not congruent with the Enlightenment.
  60. 5:12:10 PM+RenaissanceManLowInformationVoter: OK. If you really insist.. I think his -v was justified.
  61. 5:12:22 PM+LowInformationVoterWhy was that action justified?
  62. 5:13:02 PM+RenaissanceManAnd I think the Hulk is Great literature if you're a wife beater in the making. But not otherwise. :-P
  63. 5:13:21 PM+LowInformationVoterI do not support any content bans or content devoices.
  64. 5:13:42 PM+LowInformationVoterThey are almost always done by the devoicer as a result of the devoicer being lost in their emotions.
  65. 5:14:03 PM+LowInformationVoterI am generally guided by the Three Poisons notion from Buddhism.
  66. 5:14:17 PM+RenaissanceManLowInformationVoter: discussing the unnamed actions of unnamed op in channel is actually a bannable offense, not just a devoicable one.
  67. 5:14:32 PM+LowInformationVoterRenaissanceMan: I have a record of the conversation with the operator.
  68. 5:14:49 PM+LowInformationVoterI intentionally started vague to give BlackXanthus a chance to share his values.
  69. 5:14:53 PM+LowInformationVoterHe never asked for any records.
  70. 5:14:56 PM+LowInformationVoterDoes that bother you?
  71. 5:14:59 PM+LowInformationVoterIt bothers me.
  72. 5:15:12 PM+RenaissanceManLowInformationVoter: Then you should probably show it to Sara_Ks. Who will do something about it, if you have a valid case to make.
  73. 5:15:19 PM+LowInformationVoterHe taught me that he isn't even interested enough in such allegations to investigate a serious claim.
  74. 5:15:30 PM+LowInformationVoterRenaissanceMan: You are giving me advice on how to resolve the issue.
  75. 5:15:45 PM+LowInformationVoterThe current topic is 'Why was BlackXanthus justified in his devoice'.
  76. 5:16:02 PM+RenaissanceManLowInformationVoter: Sara_Ks is remarkably objective about such things.
  77. 5:16:09 PM+LowInformationVoterA non sequitur.
  78. 5:16:24 PM← Banquo has quit (Quit:)
  79. 5:16:26 PM+LowInformationVoter(And false in my experience, but that is irrelevant)
  80. 5:17:49 PM+LowInformationVoterSo far, we have your thesis as being 'BlackXanthus was justified in the devoice' with the implication that he was even justified in the act of banning, but, by implication, he was gentle in merely devoicing.
  81. 5:18:12 PM+LowInformationVoterI agree that if the 'correct' action was banning, then a devoice would be gentle.
  82. 5:18:19 PM+LowInformationVoterWhy is it correct to ban a chatter in the situation you described?
  83. 5:18:23 PM+RenaissanceManWhat youd that you should not have. What you should have done instead. I think those things follow. lol.
  84. 5:18:48 PM+LowInformationVoterI don't understand the first sentence in that post.
  85. 5:19:02 PM+LowInformationVoterRenaissanceMan: According to my value system, I should discuss all reality at any time.
  86. 5:19:14 PM+LowInformationVoterBecause I agree with the Three Poisons construct from Buddhist that delusion is a core 'sin'.
  87. 5:19:19 PM+RenaissanceManLowInformationVoter: Becaue it gets tedious very quickly if all that ever gets discuss is how horrible the enemy is.
  88. 5:19:20 PM+LowInformationVoterAnd I wish to have no delusion in my life.
  89. 5:19:29 PM+LowInformationVoterRenaissanceMan: That is a straw man.
  90. 5:19:41 PM+LowInformationVoterNobody has mentioned the word enemy until you just did.
  91. 5:19:58 PM+LowInformationVoterSo, you could say my religious values require me to discuss honestly any part of reality.
  92. 5:20:10 PM+LowInformationVoterThat is why I give no special protections or preferences to chatters who are operators.
  93. 5:20:16 PM+LowInformationVoterOr child rapists who are priests.
  94. 5:20:19 PM+LowInformationVoterOr traitors who are president.
  95. 5:20:29 PM+LowInformationVoterNow, not everybody shares those religious values -- and that's okay.
  96. 5:20:40 PM+LowInformationVoterI am not responsible for not hurt when another has a view that is not my view.
  97. 5:21:07 PM+LowInformationVoterBut, that is why I reject the notion that it should be a bannable offense to discuss any topic honestly.
  98. 5:21:14 PM+LowInformationVoterDo you dispute?
  99. 5:22:08 PM+LowInformationVoterMy recommendation for operators that do not wish to have their behavior discussed in public: do not behave badly.
  100. 5:22:15 PM+LowInformationVoterI do not blame whistleblowers.
  101. 5:22:20 PM+RenaissanceManI do. I'm just not sure which of the many points I do dispute I'd want to start with. If any.
  102. 5:22:37 PM+LowInformationVoterWhistleblowers are an essential, non-formal mechanism of any community to ensure the rules are justly applied to those in power.
  103. 5:22:59 PM+LowInformationVoterRenaissanceMan: I have clearly articulated where we currently disagree.
  104. 5:23:16 PM+LowInformationVoterI agreed with your view that given it is correct to ban for X, then devoicing for a short time for X is appropriate.
  105. 5:23:28 PM+RenaissanceManThat's probably a good place to start. "Discussion". lol
  106. 5:23:33 PM+LowInformationVoterI disagree with the antecedent, however.
  107. 5:23:42 PM+LowInformationVoterRenaissanceMan: What is your current state?
  108. 5:23:52 PM+LowInformationVoterYou seem off from your normal exceptional intellectual standard.
  109. 5:23:55 PM+RenaissanceManI'm observing the monoscussion.
  110. 5:24:14 PM+LowInformationVoterRenaissanceMan: I have actively encouraged you to engage at multiple points.
  111. 5:24:20 PM+LowInformationVoterYou are responsible for your choice to engage or not.
  112. 5:24:49 PM+RenaissanceManLowInformationVoter: As you've pointed out, you've already clearly articulated where we currently disagree. What could I possibly add to that? lol.
  113. 5:24:57 PM+LowInformationVoterRenaissanceMan: It seems clear.
  114. 5:25:10 PM+LowInformationVoterYou could establish why the standard of banning for discussing an operator is 'correct'.
  115. 5:25:16 PM+RenaissanceManAnd I have, as you hae noticed, actively resisted engaging.
  116. 5:25:32 PM+LowInformationVoterI have stated it is incorrect, given that discussion of all reality is encouraged by the Three Poisons construct from Buddhism.
  117. 5:26:09 PM+LowInformationVoterRenaissanceMan: You appear to be stating that you are unable to defend your position.
  118. 5:26:26 PM+LowInformationVoterFor me, this renders your support of BlackXanthus' action, specifically, moot.
  119. 5:26:44 PM+LowInformationVoterFurthermore, for me, it casts some darkness on your general evaluation of their character.
  120. 5:26:48 PM→ Banquo has joined
  121. 5:26:50 PMⓘ Profound set mode +v Banquo
  122. 5:26:54 PM+RenaissanceManlol
  123. 5:27:01 PM→ Moriar has joined
  124. 5:27:03 PMⓘ Profound set mode +v Moriar
  125. 5:27:06 PM+LowInformationVoterYou are normally exceptional in your adherence to Enlightenment values. You are not exceptional in this encounter.
  126. 5:27:17 PM+LowInformationVoterI thank you for your generally high intellectual standard, and encourage you to do even better in the future.
  127. 5:27:41 PM+RenaissanceManLowInformationVoter: See? You really don't need me at all in this discussion. You seem perfectly capable of articulating exactly what it is I must be thinking.
  128. 5:27:45 PM+RenaissanceMan:-P
  129. 5:28:07 PM+LowInformationVoterRenaissanceMan: That was an act of dishonesty.
  130. 5:28:24 PM+RenaissanceManThat was a very sharp point. Perhaps you missed it.
  131. 5:28:36 PM+LowInformationVoterI bring your conscious awareness to this act of dishonesty so that you can acknowledge it and avoid it in the future.
  132. 5:28:44 PM+LowInformationVoter5:25:16 PM+RenaissanceManAnd I have, as you hae noticed, actively resisted engaging.
  133. 5:28:58 PM+LowInformationVoter5:24:14 PM+LowInformationVoterRenaissanceMan: I have actively encouraged you to engage at multiple points.
  134. 5:29:05 PM+LowInformationVoter5:27:41 PM+RenaissanceManLowInformationVoter: See? You really don't need me at all in this discussion. You seem perfectly capable of articulating exactly what it is I must be thinking.
  135. 5:29:16 PM+LowInformationVoterRepetition of talking points post refutation is an essential component of the post-truth movement.
  136. 5:29:18 PM* mugz is back... 's favorite fluffy meatloaf is in the oven :) (gone for: 36m 46s)
  137. 5:29:19 PM+LowInformationVoterWhich I believe you abhor.
  138. 5:29:48 PM+LowInformationVoterThis was a low point for you, in my experience with you, RenaissanceMan.
  139. 5:30:00 PM+mugzlol
  140. 5:30:02 PM+LowInformationVoterI recommend we disengage the interaction at this time.
  141. 5:30:09 PM+RenaissanceManlol
  142. 5:30:29 PM* mugz seconds the motion
  143. 5:30:32 PM+RenaissanceManI think that's an excellent recommendation.
  144. 5:31:27 PM+LowInformationVoterhttps://youtu.be/n0svuurLibQ?t=2216
  145. 5:31:34 PM+LowInformationVoterI experienced disappointment as a result of this conversation.
  146. 5:31:50 PM+LowInformationVoterThis revealed to me, per Buddhist methodology, that I partially grounded in a perception that you are always highly intellectual, RenaissanceMan.
  147. 5:32:00 PM+mugzAn Enormous Statue of Jesus in Poland Just Got Internet Antennas and No One's Sure Why.
  148. 5:32:02 PM+LowInformationVoterBuddhism teaches us there is no ground upon which to stand.
  149. 5:32:04 PM+mugzhttps://gizmodo.com/an-enormous-statue-of-jesus-in-poland-just-got-internet-1825509813
  150. 5:32:12 PM+mugzJesus is online now :)
  151. 5:32:18 PM+RenaissanceManmugz: A miracle!
  152. 5:32:23 PM+mugzheh
  153. 5:32:33 PM+LowInformationVoterPerhaps from a sense of loneliness, I created a character in my head that was always intellectual and put you in that role.
  154. 5:32:48 PM+LowInformationVoterNow, I have experienced a sense of loss at the breaking of that misperception.
  155. 5:32:58 PM+LowInformationVoterTherefore, I have shed a measure of delusion. This is good.
  156. 5:33:09 PM← Moriar has quit (Ping timeout)
  157. 5:33:46 PM+LowInformationVoterI will have to reflect on this.
  158. 5:34:21 PM+LowInformationVoterI am angry.
  159. 5:35:43 PM+RenaissanceManLowInformationVoter: What is the sound of one hand clapping, Grasshopper. Reflect on this and perhaps you will be able to shed this particular attachment to clapping with one hand.
  160. 5:35:53 PM Ignoring RenaissanceMan!*@*
  161. 5:35:58 PM+LowInformationVoterRenaissanceMan: I decided to put you on ignore.
  162. 5:36:05 PM+LowInformationVoterThis is the first time I have ignored you.
  163. 5:36:22 PM← JediAEL has quit (Ping timeout)
  164. 5:36:24 PM+LowInformationVoterI perceived your comment to borne of unkind intentions.
  165. 5:36:27 PM← exangel has quit (Quit: http://quassel-irc.org - Chat comfortably. Anywhere.)
  166. 5:37:20 PM+LowInformationVoterI'd like to take a moment to contrast this with the behavior of BlackXanthus earlier.
  167. 5:37:53 PM+LowInformationVoterI am being destabilized by some of my emotions in this moment, and so I am blocking stimuli from myself and only myself in order to prevent doing harm.
  168. 5:38:19 PM+LowInformationVoterI note that when I am destabilized in this way I may do things which are harmful without perceiving correctly the harm.
  169. 5:38:31 PM+LowInformationVoterThis is why we should almost never devoice others.
  170. 5:38:58 PM+mugzRenaissanceMan I thought you were already married?
  171. 5:39:04 PM+LowInformationVoter"Anybody can become angry - that is easy, but to be angry with the right person and to the right degree and at the right time and for the right purpose, and in the right way - that is not within everybody's power and is not easy." - Aristotle
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