[15:42]	SoDUser09	I sent an email to that yesterday but someone on the fourms said Id have a better chance getting him in here
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[15:49]	SoDUser35	so I just /msg and his name correct
[15:50]	SoDUser35	,
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[15:51]	Alister	,
[15:55]	Nwaij	no, you ask in this channel if it is ok to pm him
[15:55]	eyate	welcome to the rulesssssss
[15:55]	Nwaij	like "Tarutao may I PM you?"
[15:56]	Gerick	Alister that policy of asking to PM first is just there as a buffer so staff dudes do not get harassed by dumb PMs basically don't let it scare you off
[15:58]	Alister	oh i already sent a /msg Tarutao then a mesasge
[15:59]	Gerick	well I wouldn't worry too much
[15:59]	Tarutao	If you'd like to ask if a ban appeal has been received, you can do that.
[16:00]	Marza	holy crap just unban him
[16:00]	Marza	this is dumb
[16:00]	eyate	marza with the truth
[16:00]	Alister	Ah I sent an email to sodgmtao@gmail.com
[16:00]	Marza	maybe you should talk to people before you randomly ban level 20s
[16:00]	Marza	and dont just assume they are out to ruin this game and its integrity
[16:01]	Marza	because half of them are just careless and harmless in the end
[16:01]	Tarutao	You really shouldn't impersonate Marza.
[16:01]	===	Marza <44610bb4@sod-9B9D43FD.mibbit.com> “ip68-97-11-180.ok.ok.cox.net”
[16:01]	===	Marza: member of #soddesign and #sod
[16:01]	===	Marza: attached to shardsofdalaya.com “Shards of Dalaya IRC Server”
[16:01]	===	Marza: idle for 39 seconds (on since Friday, April 20, 2012 12:36:36 PM)
[16:01]	---	End of WHOIS information for Marza.
[16:01]	Marza	ya true
[16:01]	Tarutao	Marza is on staff and knows better than to say things like that even jokingly outside of staff channels
[16:02]	Tarutao	So, whoever you are, just log off and change nick and never speak of this again.
[16:02]	Alister	well I must admit I didn't read the rule carefuly
[16:02]	Marza	which is why you are careless
[16:02]	Gerick	it happens man
[16:03]	Marza	I can speak my mind wherever I want tbh Tarutao FREE IRC CHANNEL
[16:03]	=-=	Marza was booted from #sod by Tarutao (Tarutao)
[16:03]	Tarutao	He thought wrong.
[16:03]	Tarutao	wonder who he really is?
[16:03]	eyate	wasnt that the real marza
[16:03]	Gerick	when I started I barely read the rules at all since I figured the server would be like a diversion for a few days or whatever
[16:03]	eyate	like
[16:03]	Alister	I don;t hack and im not a rude person so I figured hey just play nice what could go wrong,
[16:03]	eyate	thats the hostmask
[16:03]	eyate	marza has had for 2 years
[16:04]	Tarutao	I really don't believe marza would be that unprofessional.
[16:04]	eyate	although he usually uses chatzilla over mibbit so who knows
[16:04]	eyate	do you know the same marza
[16:04]	eyate	that i know
[16:04]	Gerick	yeah alister I mean that is why there is the appeal process nobody is out to get you just sometimes this stuff happens
[16:04]	eyate	cus apparently we have two different marzas
[16:04]	Tarutao	Then he can eat shit.
[16:04]	Tarutao	but I still don't believe that was him.
[16:04]	eyate	hes also in the staff channels
[16:05]	Tarutao	not the ones I'm in.
[16:05]	eyate	Marza on #soddesign #sod #design
[16:05]	eyate	????
[16:05]	eyate	oh well i dont care but that sounded like real marza to me and definitely has the same hostmask he always does
[16:05]	Tarutao	/shrug -- maybe
[16:05]	Gerick	yeah looks like it was him
[16:06]	Tarutao	maybe, but I trust that Dev Team members wouldn't publically attack the GM Team
[16:06]	Tarutao	and that was one.
[16:06]	Tarutao	until I see otherwise, I'm keeping that trust.
[16:06]	Alister	thing is I had 3 days off with nothing planed was going to have and EQ burnout and now 1 days is gone
[16:07]	Tarutao	well, what'd you do?
[16:07]	Alister	I had a shaman loged on to buff my other 2 guys
[16:08]	Tarutao	Oh, then you're welcome to create new accounts.
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[16:09]	Gerick	alister are all your accounts banned or what
[16:09]	Alister	yeah i know that lvl 29 is not that high but when u have 0 gear and my friends who joined me are lvl 15 ish
[16:10]	Alister	yeah all 3
[16:10]	Alister	my highest was 29
[16:11]	Alister	i tryed starting again but it just to depessing\
[16:12]	Tarutao	So, I just hopped on the forums to catch up on the last day
[16:12]	Gerick	yeah that is pretty disheartening
[16:12]	Alister	my first account i made the mistake of making 2 chr on the same account
[16:13]	Tarutao	and I see a thread bitching at me because people don't like the idea of banning players that don't give a damn about the basic rules.
[16:13]	Tarutao	joy.
[16:13]	Gerick	is it normal for all 3 of his accounts to be banned for that though?
[16:14]	Gerick	I thought in the past just one of the three was banned, I mean I'm rusty here and could be mistaken
[16:14]	eyate	my posts werent bitching about you but the idea that some guy who is completely new to the game gets thrown out like this
[16:14]	Tarutao	Standard is to ban all but the lowest and jail that one for 14 days
[16:15]	eyate	You could do things to prevent this scenario like putting vital rules on the account creation page or even in the dream
[16:15]	Tarutao	Yeah, running off a player that doesn't give a damn about the rules. woo
[16:15]	Tarutao	They are on the page you have to agree to every time you load the game
[16:15]	Tarutao	there isn't a more conspicuous place
[16:15]	Alister	not like Im a bad person dude
[16:15]	Gerick	I understand the need to maintain the integrity of the rules and of course ignorance is never a good defense but given the nature of the situation would lenience in this situation really undermine the rules being applied to people who violate them flagrantly instead of ignorantly
[16:15]	eyate	haha you mean the text box
[16:16]	eyate	where i cant see anything
[16:16]	eyate	at all
[16:16]	eyate	and have to push enter to bypass that screen
[16:16]	Alister	I heven;t broken the law ever
[16:16]	Alister	well speeding yeah but
[16:16]	Gerick	you monster Alister
[16:16]	Tarutao	There is no public opinion significant difference between flagrant and ignorant violation
[16:16]	Tarutao	The level of people saying "he shouldn't be banned" is the same as if he had hacked a GM account.
[16:17]	Gerick	the severity of the crime dictates the punishment
[16:17]	Gerick	I think you can acknowledge that crimes of the same type can still fall under subsets
[16:18]	eyate	Cut the hand off regarldess of what was stolen man
[16:18]	Gerick	while it's harder to police if I exploit knowingly for gain it is different than if I exploit unknowingly
[16:18]	Gerick	it's not like systems of law do not consider motive
[16:18]	Gerick	I'm not trying to bust your balls obviously Tao you get that more than enough and often unfairly
[16:18]	Gerick	I'm just saying
[16:19]	Tarutao	Yeah, I get it. You're "just saying" again. Please stop "just saying".
[16:19]	Gerick	Well, why
[16:19]	Gerick	is my point invalid?
[16:20]	Tarutao	I would say your opinion is harmful.
[16:20]	Tarutao	I think you're very wrong, and I'm frequently glad you're no longer on the GM Team.
[16:20]	Tarutao	because I think your opinions on how to handle rule issues are long-term detrimental to this game.
[16:20]	Gerick	It's possible
[16:20]	Gerick	certainly
[16:21]	Tarutao	and this game's community would turn into a combination of p99 and wow in no time
[16:22]	Tarutao	For that matter, I blame myself for how nasty things have gotten on the forums
[16:22]	Gerick	but some rules we have are so unique to this game and outside the baseline set by other games I can understand people coming on here and not investing much time into exploring the nuances of our ruleset
[16:22]	Tarutao	it's because I've been too patient with people who will push the rules to their limits and bitch about the rules that remain and then break them and create public spectacle about the nazi GMs that aren't letting them talking about snorting coke off a 13 year old in public channels
[16:24]	Tarutao	let's see... bans in the last 3 months
[16:24]	Gerick	I can't argue you with that
[16:24]	Tarutao	a 3boxer, a more-than-that-boxer running Macroquest
[16:24]	Tarutao	20 other MQ bans
[16:24]	Tarutao	a death threat on the forums
[16:24]	Tarutao	a casino scammer
[16:25]	Tarutao	and btw, there's people bitching about the casino scammer getting banned
[16:25]	Tarutao	and I can't think of ANY reason someone would defend that unless they are just trying to be a dick
[16:25]	Gerick	If you seem to think I am on the side of people calling you a totalitarian fascist or something I am not
[16:25]	Tarutao	no, but you're always on the "don't ban" side
[16:25]	Alister	I know there are a lot of assholes in the world that must make a moderators life tuff, but what happenes to human decency? Cant we assume a person is deccent until proven otherwise?
[16:26]	Gerick	obviously not, I have never defended macroquest users etc
[16:26]	Tarutao	Yeah, we did.
[16:26]	Gerick	but in this specific scenario I don't see the sense in driving this guy off for the sake of his mistake
[16:26]	Tarutao	We assumed you were a good guy, and then you broke the listed rule 10
[16:26]	Alister	maybe EQ brings the worst out in people
[16:26]	Tarutao	Well, he's welcome to start again
[16:26]	Tarutao	I mean, I didn't go IP ban him for that thread or the direct PM
[16:26]	Tarutao	I let those go.
[16:27]	aytewi	Tarutao did you see my
[16:27]	aytewi	sick app
[16:28]	Tarutao	yeah, I did
[16:28]	Tarutao	thanks for at least the honesty
[16:28]	aytewi	lol
[16:28]	Tarutao	The question is whether I can trust you
[16:28]	Alister	Naw I wont start again, sorry it came to this.
[16:28]	aytewi	i can shape up
[16:29]	Alister	Ill wait for GW2
[16:29]	Tarutao	okay
[16:29]	Alister	I think you need a break though
[16:30]	Tarutao	Maybe, but I also look at all the other new people that do read the rules.
[16:30]	Tarutao	and your propensity towards starting forum drama immediately
[16:31]	Tarutao	Side note, aytewi, what's your stance on 3boxing?
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