Randy Credico Interviews Ray McGovern (01/20/2017)

Supplemental document for: "Theory that Roger Stone's back channel to Wikileaks was Randy Credico", link: https://wakelet.com/wake/2d352ae9-febe-44a1-a7bb-51674a2e4bf5

Ray McGovern on "Live on the Fly", hosted by Randy Credico, special inauguration day edition. Broadcast date: January 20, 2017. During this conversation, McGovern often sounds drunk, saying things he's said many times before in a confused or mumbling manner, and this may account for why so many sections of his conversation are inaudible.

Transcript goes from 15:50 to 33:26 in the file.

File link: http://www.mediafire.com/file/gc7t7blkaevzk0l/WBAI+Radio+Archives+-+Credico+program+Inauguration+Day+-+Ray+McGovern.mp3

RANDY CREDICO
We're going to keep moving right now, we've got a guy who's become a de facto co-host of mine, because I have him on so often, because he always has something great to say, you know, he's a former CIA analyst, and he's turned activist, he got arrested, protesting in front of a Hillary campaign office...he's the creator of Veteran Intelligence Professionals for Sanity, and the founder of the Sam Adams Association for Integrity in Intelligence, and there's so much...you go to his website, Ray McGovern dot com, welcome back, Ray.

RAY MCGOVERN
Thanks Randy.

CREDICO
You must be in big demand these days, Ray, but you always are, but particularly the last couple of days with all the tension that's happening.

MCGOVERN
Well, it's been fun. There've been a couple of people that are interested in what I have to say, but no one in the mainstream media...

CREDICO
Well, of course.

MCGOVERN
Except, of course, for WBAI, and other outlets.

CREDICO
We're being broadcast around today. We got other places that are picking this up, and you're in drive time here in the morning, and we love having you here, Ray. Listen, Ray, I can't get a job in mainstream media, and if I did, I couldn't have you on. You're right, WBAI is the one place where you can do this, WBAI is listener supported, that's why it's so important that listeners, it's their station, continue to support us, because as you just said, you know, you can't get- in spite of your background, they'll put all these other paid hacks that live in McLean, Virginia, and that Washington, D.C. area, those paid supporters, those puppets of policy, but they won't put Ray McGovern on MSNC or CNN, even though you got this incredible background. There I go, using that Trump word, "incredible". This remarkable background. So, Ray, look, we got a new president here, people are nervous about the new president. This last president, who's leaving in just two hours, the last couple of days-

MCGOVERN
Good riddance.

CREDICO
Yeah, well, you're not a- I'm not a fan of his, and for a number of reasons. Believe me. A number of reasons. I wish Jill Stein had won. And I wouldn't- I'd be here today, you know, it bothers me that- I'm so thrilled, and we all are, Chelsea Manning got her sentence commuted in, looks like she'll be out in May of some point...did not give it to Leonard Peltier. And, at the same time, did not give it to Julian Assange, like, pardon him, right now, or drop the charges, because Assange...this is the same thing as Daniel Ellsberg. Ellsberg did what Manning did, gave the stuff to the Times, and Manning gave it to Julian Assange, who's a reporter. He just put it out. Why is that a crime?

MCGOVERN
Well, it's a crime if it reveals crimes, Randy. And, I mean, look at what, look at what these people revealed. Chelsea Manning, for example, the wanton destruction of people during the celebrated surge in Iraq. That Wikileaks footage of "Collateral Murder". That's chilling. Not only chilling because it shows...the way, not only our media have been corrupted, but people, our young people, the people who we say are in a volunteer draft, but really, are in a poverty draft. People who go into the army, and are indoctrinated, and start acting like we're [inaudible], we're [inaudible], live, those pilots, shooting up people. Shooting up people in an avaricious way, "Come on, give us permission! Give us permission! There's a van there!"

CREDICO
Why were they holding that back from us, Ray? Why is that- Why shouldn't the public, which pays the salaries of all these spooks and all these guys in the military, and all these politicians...why shouldn't _we_, the taxpayers, know about what's going on. I mean, Julian Assange, Wikileaks, they exposed it, he's under- he's holed up for four years now, just acting as a journalist. The president should have given him, and of course, Ed Snowden, and, of course, should have given Leonard Peltier clemency, but he didn't, and you know Trump is not going to do that. Peltier is there forever. With Donald Trump in. And really, it bothers me, Obama could have done that. And he didn't.

MCGOVERN
Well, Randy, it's even worse than that. For obvious reasons, the government doesn't want raw information certified as accurate. Documentary, the kind of evidence that detectives, intelligence analysts lust after. I mean, indisputable, huh? The government doesn't want that out, so people can see, what has become of this corruption, of this kind of brutalization, not only of Iraqis, but of all the young people. Now, the worst is, and few people know this, did you know there was a Washington Post reporter with that unit? And did you know, that he saw that Wikileaks, that "Collateral Murder" tape? And did you know that he wrote a book, praising up and down this wonderful unit, that was responsible for such wanton destruction? That was described by some of the people in the unit. People that tried to rescue those little kids. K? So: what you have here is a total corruption of the mainstream media, it doesn't pay to expose these things, it pays to praise the perpetrators of these things, up and down in a book, where you talk about heroism on the part of our young men and women. You know, it's pretty bad. Whether it can get any worse under Trump... [laughs]

CREDICO
We're talking with Ray McGovern, Ray McGovern is a former CIA analyst, he gave his...got a medal in 1995, and gave it back in 2006, I believe, and he started the Sam Adams Associates for Integrity in Intelligence, and we have, one of your- The first recipient at the...Time magazine person of the year, coming up in the next hour now, and that, of course, is Ms. Coleen Rowley, who you know very well. So, we put those people on this show, we almost had Thomas Drake on today, we'll get him. We're going to have him back on. But Ray, we're doing this focus today on the inauguration in D.C., and you live in that area, what's the feeling down there, amongst the people in the intelligence community, are they afraid of Trump, can he upset it that much?

MCGOVERN
Well...the, you know, the [inaudible] would call them, Brennan, the head of the CIA, and James Clapper...they are demonstrably guilty of high crimes and misdemeanors. Clapper having admitted to testifying under oath to things he later called "clearly erroneous", and yet they're allowed to hang around four years more, [laughs] instead of retiring to a [inaudible] Brennan involved in all manner of other things...So, these people are the ones that are worried. The rank-and-file, I think they welcome a change here. It remains to be seen whether Pompeo will be any better, but to my mind, [laughs] he won't be any worse.

CREDICO
I don't think- Let me ask you one question, Ray, before I forget: this is a question, burning in my mind. Why is it that everybody, top level, intelligence leader, under Obama, looks like Marlon Brando in _Apocalypse Now_? [MCGOVERN laughs] Why is that? They all look like that, like Colonel Kurtz, or General Kurtz, whatever his name was. They all have that same look, they're dripping, their mouths are dripping, whether it be Brennan or Clapper. They got that- And [Richard] Armitage [former Deputy Secretary of State] used to look like that.

MCGOVERN
Lean and hungry look, yeah. Brennan's not on the lean side, but, you know...Obama's a fairly weak guy, let's face it. He came in, he was given the word, and he didn't want to cross them. Now, what I'd like to refer to briefly, is your New York Times, which says that [inaudible] President elect today, it says, "Can you stand here today," [inaudible] op-ed, "once and for all, and say [inaudible] had no contact with Russia? At any time up to and during the presidential campaign?" [laughs] They're still at it, they're still at it. They're still talking about-

CREDICO
All the way until noon, they're just talking about Russia. That's it.

MCGOVERN
Yeah.

CREDICO
And we got troops- Yes?

MCGOVERN
I'd like to put into perspective, you know, just, finally, this business about hacking. Because, you know, Obama, he slipped. At this press conference, he slipped, and told the truth. What he said, of course, is that, what I've been telling y'all, has more holes in it than a sieve. Even said, [inaudible], I'm gonna get it right now. Did the Russian government hack? Of course they hacked. Did they hack the emails of the DNC? Almost certainly yes. Hayden said heads should roll, and [inaudible] Russian intelligence, given what easy pickings they were at the DNC. But that's not the question. The question is: who gave these things to Wikileaks? [laughs] Okay? And what did the president say in his last conference? This is interesting. I quote him. [says nothing]

CREDICO
Yes. Go right ahead. We're talking with Ray McGovern, who's going to quote the president.

MCGOVERN
Here he is on Wednesday. I quote, "The conclusions of the intelligence community, with respect to the Russian hacking, were not conclusive. ..as to whether Wikileaks was witting or not in being used as a conduit through which we heard about the DNC emails that were leaked." WHAAAAT. [laughs] Okay, so, the conclusions of the intelligence community, were not conclusive. And where the president is saying, Wikileaks may not have known, whether witting, that they were being used as a conduit...well, as I said immediately on RT, which is the only TV place that will listen to me...you know, it could be, could it not...that Wikileaks was not witting about being used as a conduit because Wikileaks knew exactly who gave them the thumb drives, and knew that they weren't being used as a conduit...

CREDICO
Absolutely!

MCGOVERN
...and that explains it!

CREDICO
I mean, it's so clear...and, that Assange is being- part of this political football right now, with Russia. Now we've mounted troops in Poland and the Baltics, and they continue to malign him, like I said earlier, he, all he was, he is a journalist...like the only honest journalist out there, you know. And everything he does is correct, I mean...he's never been proven wrong! And he's just a messenger! That's it! He's the messenger, and they want to kill the messenger. He is a hero, and the American public should thank him for being informed about the atrocities that have been committed by our government, whether it be Bush, or Obama, and whatever comes up in the future, he's not going to lay down. And I give him a great amount of credit for having the uh, the fortitude to continue sending out stuff, and having interviews, and staying in that embassy...it's not easy, right?

MCGOVERN
Yeah, well, I saw him in early November, actually four days before the election, here, in the embassy, Ecuador. He has this pallor, as if he hasn't been outside for four years, and, of course, that's because he hasn't been outside for four years. But he was very very up. He had just [inaudible] what we try to do in Veteran Intelligence Professionals for Sanity, and I was [inaudible] spread some truth around.

CREDICO
Right. Well, he's-

MCGOVERN
I have to say, it's a little easier for him, you know why? [laughs] Because he's got the documents.

CREDICO
He's got the-

MCGOVERN
He doesn't touch the documents. He keeps them pristine pure, even people like Ed Snowden say, hey, you really oughta take social security numbers...once, Randy, once you fool with one part of one message, your credibility is gone. That's why they can't deal with this guy, his documents show that Hillary Clinton stole the nomination from Bernie Sanders, pure and simple, that's why they hate him.

CREDICO
If she hadn't done that, she and Donna Brazile and Debbie Wasserman Schultz, if they hadn't done that, and Podesta, if they hadn't collaborated, in denying him- Bernie Sanders, [does his Sanders impression] Bernie Sanders, the nomination [stops the impression, thankfully] we wouldn't be in this shape right now. Sanders would be the president, instead of Donald Trump. She gave us Donald Trump.

MCGOVERN
That's right, Randy. You need to understand, these people are entitled. As we used to say up in the Bronx, they're entitled. K? They feel entitled to do all this stuff, and poor slobs like us, and people who are truth tellers like Julian Assange, they are not entitled to tell the truth about these things. And that's why the whole thing is kindof soaked in irony. The whole thing all backfired in such a strange and inconceivable way, that who knows? Maybe there's some profit or some luck that [inaudible] in the future here, because at the very least, in my view, the danger of a nuclear war with Russia...is less. With-

CREDICO
With Trump, yes. But we don't know what's going to happen here at home, because Obama has left him a lot of tools. We'll be talking with Heidi Boghosian, coming up. With the tools that he's got, with the NDAA and HR-347, the PATRIOT act, and all these things, he's got at his disposal, and we're going to be talking about that in a few minutes with someone that used to be the head of the National Lawyers Guild. But Russia, as you said, with Russia, Obama has put him, like, in a position where...we're right on their border! This is not good stuff! Why did Obama send troops to Poland? As if Russia was going to invade Poland like they did [in] 1939, to prevent the Nazis from going any further...into the Soviet Union.

MCGOVERN
It's very simple. Very simple. This guy, [Joseph] Dunford at JCS [Joint Chief of Staffs, Dunford is its Chairman], told him to. For eight years, that's all he's done. What the military generals tell him to. Same with John Brennan. You know, we're talking the inauguration here. And [laughs] last time, that something happened to Obama between the Capitol and the White House, I'm not gonna tell exactly what it is, but it has to do with his manly parts, and they fell off, on Constitution Avenue. And we had eight years of a guy without manly parts, and with no backbone. We'll see if Trump is any better. We have to give him a chance...I do not fear that in our foreign policy he has to be worse than Obama, I think there's a good possibility he might be better. And I suggest that that's [laughs] the only silver lining here, the internal repression that we can expect, the reverse of all these enlightened policies of the last couple of decades, that is pernicious. The little glimmer of hope that I see in the foreign policy, pales in significance to what you're going to hear from Heidi [Boghosian, head of the National Lawyers Guild].

CREDICO
Yes. Alright. Well, listen, Ray, it's always a pleasure to have you on, thank you for being so generous with your time, and we'll be talking to you very soon. It's great, we've been talking to Ray McGovern, who is a former CIA analyst for many years, decades, and the founder of the Sam Adams...Sam Adams Associates of...

MCGOVERN
Integrity in Intelligence.

CREDICO
Alright.

MCGOVERN
And Julian Assange, Julian Assange won that in 2010.

CREDICO
I know that, I know that. Well, maybe he'll call in right now. But we're going to go to an ID, he knows that you're on the show, I spoke to someone that...said, maybe he'll be listening. We don't know. Alright. Thank you very much, Ray. I don't want to be accused of being the courier here. [MCGOVERN laughs] Alright. Ray McGovern.

MCGOVERN
Bye now.

CREDICO
Alright. We'll be back with Heidi Boghosian.