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- 15:14 < AlSweigart> Hey JC, so my main question with The Bridge that you're setting up is 1) What's it supposed to accomplish? Is it a second spacebridge
- project?
- 15:15 < AlSweigart> And 2) who's going to be sleeping in the nap pod that you set up there?
- 15:15 < tdfischer> its a space within a space
- 15:15 < thex> it's a part of the space
- 15:15 < thex> i've update the floorplan
- 15:15 < thex> https://noisebridge.net/wiki/File:Noiz_spacemap2012.jpg
- 15:15 < noisebot> [Link Info] title: File:Noiz spacemap2012.jpg - Noisebridge
- 15:16 < thex> although you may have to reload for cache
- 15:16 < AlSweigart> Right. But why is the partitioning necessary for the projects that will be done there, and what projects will be done there? Is it just a
- separate new room in the space?
- 15:16 < thex> all great q's
- 15:17 < thex> gimmie one sec peeps IRL in the bridge
- 15:17 < thex> brb
- 15:17 < AlSweigart> Also, the jpg you linked doesn't really explain it. It looks more like a joke. But seriously, what is it going to be used for?
- 15:18 < thex> it's a bridge, for the spaceship noisebridge
- 15:18 < xnw> so hey
- 15:18 < thex> on a 5 year mission, to blah blah blah, excellent haxing etc
- 15:18 <@jerkey> AlSweigart it's not really a thing, it's a state of mind
- 15:18 < thex> and it's very much a work in process
- 15:18 < AlSweigart> Uh... yeah, but seriously, what is it and what will it be used for?
- 15:18 < xnw> you know how David Suzuki was like "if Fukushima reactor 3 melts down, we should evacuate the west coast of North America"?
- 15:18 <@jerkey> lol i love that there's a GPS at the control station
- 15:19 < xnw> and you know how, like, there's this new plume of steam that is making scientists think maybe it's happening, that reactor 3 is going into
- meltdown now?
- 15:19 < xnw> what are you guys' thoughts on that?
- 15:19 < thex> ya
- 15:19 < xnw> seeing as we're about as west coast as it gets
- 15:19 < thex> i'd like to have an actual gps unit
- 15:19 < thex> and spoof it to show wherever we are in metaspace
- 15:19 <@jerkey> xnw i dont think any more reactors are going to melt down, it sounds alarmist. if there is research or data to back it up i'll read it but
- based on my knowledge of the situation, it's just fear exploitation
- 15:19 < thex> and be able to route a trip to say c-base
- 15:20 < xnw> jerkey: http://gizmodo.com/radioactive-mystery-steam-over-fukushima-could-mean-ano-1492280971
- 15:20 < noisebot> [Link Info] title: Mystery Steam Over Fukushima Could Be Sign of Another Meltdown
- 15:20 < xnw> note I'm not linking a conspiracy site. it may well be fear-mongering, I agree.
- 15:21 < AlSweigart> So a couple years back, there was this guy Isky who brought his home desktop PC and put it in Turing. He would hang out at Noisebridge a
- lot just playing Modern Warfare or whatever. It basically was monopolizing that part of the classroom for his private use, which is
- unexcellent.
- 15:21 < thex> ya
- 15:21 < AlSweigart> He would say that the computer was openly available to anyone, but only he and his friends had the password to it. He also permanently
- stored his bicycle at the space, again saying it was a community bike, but since it wasn't marked as such, it was only used by him and his
- friends.
- 15:22 < thex> so the "bridge" experiment, is diving into a more 1337 bridge, or n0153bridge if you will
- 15:22 < AlSweigart> thex: Can you explain what that means?
- 15:22 < thex> a dedicated space for 1337
- 15:22 < thex> setup with nice things
- 15:22 < thex> that continue to work, and stay in the space
- 15:22 <@jerkey> xnw i am reading
- 15:22 < thex> i am working to design it in a open and non-exclusionary way
- 15:23 < thex> however, there is a line
- 15:23 <@jerkey> AlSweigart i predict that what thex does at noisebridge will be excellent, and he is receptive to criticism should the need arise
- 15:23 < AlSweigart> So, who is allowed to use the leet area of Noisebridge?
- 15:23 < thex> that is meant to insure that ppl participanting in the bridge are doing so with known concent of what they are choosing to participate in
- 15:23 <@jerkey> you mean the nitrous?
- 15:24 < thex> well it may make sense to combine it with a "members" area ala membershelves
- 15:24 < thex> jerkey: u refering to the helium?
- 15:25 <@jerkey> dont inhale helium, it doesn't do what you think it does
- 15:25 < AlSweigart> thex: It really looks like your setting up a private space, including sleeping quarters, for yourself and the people you deem leet.
- Especially since you did it all before announcing it on the wiki, in IRC, at a meeting, and are refusing to announce it at all on the
- mailing list. Also, tonight's meeting is NYE, where not many people will show up.
- 15:25 * thex in all seriousness, not a fan of huffers/huffing
- 15:25 < thex> yes, to be clear and plain, i am hacking the shit out of noisebridge, and not asking permission
- 15:25 < AlSweigart> thex: That's what it looks like. But please do (I sincerely mean this) show me how I'm incorrect.
- 15:26 < thex> i am doing my best, and expect to be held accountable, that i find and proceed in an excellent way
- 15:26 <@jerkey> xnw i'm reading the translated japanese and it does mention unexplained steam, but it's hard to read the whole thing.
- http://www.tepco.co.jp/nu-news/2013/1233248_5304.html
- 15:26 < noisebot> [Link Info] title: ?????????????????(??)|????
- 15:26 < Cognition> who determines who is 1337?
- 15:26 < thex> i'd prefer to do then talk, and let my doin speak for itself
- 15:26 < AlSweigart> Cognition: I am very much interested in the answer to that question too.
- 15:27 < thex> however, i value the oppurtunity for input and feedback, and rfc stage as it were
- 15:27 < unixjazz> jerkey, tepco is the worse source for info, but I agree with you regarding the reactor-3 -- alarmism is not going to help us in anyway
- 15:27 < AlSweigart> thex: You know this will be controversial. You should discuss it with the community to mitigate people's concerns.
- 15:27 <@jerkey> AlSweigart i think you should go there and see how excellent it will be. thex works hard at excellence in the space and i predict you would
- approve.
- 15:27 < thex> and i may be driving the project, however i consider a noisebridge project first, rather than my project
- 15:27 < unixjazz> tepco have been systematically hidding info since the outbreak of the disaster
- 15:27 < unixjazz> s/have/has
- 15:28 < thex> i will be happy to discuss via irc, i am not interested in unnecessary dramatizing via nb-discuss
- 15:28 <@jerkey> AlSweigart there be dragons where people fear to do things without permission. don't activate the fire extinguisher before the fire
- 15:28 < AlSweigart> jerkey: It's only been up for a day. I was in the middle of taking down the tarp when JC found me and explain everything, because I hadn't
- heard about it at all and thought someone was setting up their own private residence.
- 15:28 < thex> actually this is day 5
- 15:28 <@jerkey> that is a valid guess when you see a tarp go up at noisebrige
- 15:28 < thex> i've been "occupying" west noisebridge since the start of CHAOS
- 15:28 < thex> which i very publicly announced over a month ago
- 15:28 < thex> this is a continuation
- 15:29 < AlSweigart> I mean, I do a lot of bold moves (like booting sleepers out in the morning), but I go out of my way to make solicit opinions from people,
- especially those who disagree with me.
- 15:29 < thex> and frankly i take your action of dissable/paint over by default as n0ts3w excellent
- 15:29 < AlSweigart> thex: Announced on the mailing list, or at a meeting or something? I don't remember anyone saying anything about a closed off "leet" space
- with sleeping pod.
- 15:29 <@jerkey> unixjazz i agree that they keep as much secrets as they can, but if reactor 3 is undercooled and making steam, they will surely increase the
- cooling water to it. The consequence being more radioactive water to dispose of. But to let it melt down is not an option that anyone would
- consider.
- 15:29 < thex> and the no dissamble isn't even supposed go be enforced till next year
- 15:30 < thex> it's not closed off
- 15:30 < thex> but like https everywhere, exploring encrypted by default
- 15:30 < unixjazz> jerkey, sure! it would be noticeable if the core would be melting... because they would make moves and call attention of the world (a lot of
- people 'on the ground' are following them closely)
- 15:30 <@jerkey> thex are you interested in finding out what alsweigart wants you to do differently?
- 15:31 < thex> ...i'm continuing a conversatoin that we started in the space
- 15:31 -!- anti-todo [~user@199.254.238.233] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
- 15:31 -!- heroic [~jasmine@c-98-210-109-104.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #noisebridge
- 15:31 < thex> and yes look'n for anyones input, however trying to stay focused on hacking over talking
- 15:31 <@jerkey> unixjazz if the core is melting it's because of insufficient cooling, so they will increase the cooling water flow
- 15:31 < unixjazz> thex, IMHO it does not make much sense to build walls within the space...
- 15:31 < thex> and sometimes it better to do and ask for forgiveness later
- 15:32 < AlSweigart> thex: There's tons of random scrawling and graffitti all over the space. I started painting over it, including the storage door.
- Considering that E'Claire has been blasting her stuff all over the walls, I didn't think it would be too controversial. I'm interested in
- hearing about what people think about drawing on the walls of NB (we had an art wall specifically for that a while ago).
- 15:32 < thex> and hope that nb is the kinda place where ppl doing crazy shit are given the benefit of the doubt they are doing something excellent
- 15:32 < thex> rather then starting yet another cluster fuck
- 15:32 < thex> even when its been tried and failed
- 15:32 < thex> rather then starting yet another cluster fuck
- 15:32 < thex> even when its been tried and failed
- 15:32 < AlSweigart> And since E'Claire is now prolly going to piss off the landlord by writing her name all over outside the space, I think E'Claire's actions
- are unexcellent.
- 15:32 < thex> and in the process it's odd to see such literal censorship
- 15:33 < thex> at the same time i am huge supporter of cleaning the space, and challenged by the graffitti as well
- 15:33 < AlSweigart> But we can talk about the graffiti later (and I seriously would like to talk about it)
- 15:33 < thex> and hoping to see it evolve in to more art and less crap
- 15:33 < thex> agreed
- 15:33 < thex> one thing at a time
- 15:33 < thex> so how about this...
- 15:34 < thex> i'm gonna keep hack'n in the "dark" aka bridge for the rest of the year
- 15:34 < thex> and come next year (say 12 hours from now)
- 15:34 < AlSweigart> thex: Right. So, my personal view is that The Bridge seems like it'll become a sort of "inner circle" area that is closed off to general
- people at NB, and the sleep pod is a bad idea. I'm willing to hold off on taking it down or what not for a few weeks to see how it turns
- out though.
- 15:35 < thex> there will be a clearer, public mission statement, outlining whats goin on, and the demands/impact on the physical space attached to going forward
- 15:35 < thex> i'd like to sperate the sleep pod from the bridge discussion
- 15:35 < thex> as it's not intended to be part of the bridge
- 15:35 < AlSweigart> thex: But one thing I do want you to do is make it completely transparent 1) what The Bridge's intended use specifically is and 2) who's
- going to be allowed/not allowed to use the sleep pod. And that includes mailing noisebridge-discuss.
- 15:35 < thex> but an adjunct via #fort
- 15:36 < AlSweigart> thex: The sleep pod is right in the middle of The Bridge and was made at the same time as The Bridge. I don't see how you can't include it.
- 15:36 < thex> the sleep pod was an invention contrived at 5:30am this morning
- 15:36 < AlSweigart> My main concern is I don't want parts of Noisebridge to be privatized and partitioned off.
- 15:36 < thex> and onfab'd in an hour
- 15:37 < gnusosa> hahahaa wat
- 15:37 < gnusosa> I'm out
- 15:37 < thex> ya
- 15:37 < thex> more to talk about and figure out
- 15:37 < unixjazz> AlSweigart, +1, I think it is a bad idea to partition the space...
- 15:37 < unixjazz> I mean, building walls and stuff
- 15:37 < thex> would like to have a more general discussion about at meeting tonight if anyone is coming, or pickup again at the same time on irc
- 15:39 < thex> and al i really don't wanna piss you or anyone at the space off
- 15:39 < thex> and i am excersizing my freedom to hack and experiment and need some time and space to see where that is going
- 15:39 < thex> and expect it will become much clearer in the coming days
- 15:40 <@jerkey> it seems that the steam could just be a leak in one of the cooling systems, the temperature in the general area is 5.1 celsius, so any water
- even slightly warm will make steam.
- 15:40 < AlSweigart> Right. I think it would clear things up if you can write out what the intended use of the space is, but also make it as public as possible
- and solicit people's opinions/criticism.
- 15:40 < thex> i'll keep folks updated with things that may have a broader inpact on the space as much as possible here
- 15:41 < thex> i'll be having an open dialog on whats currently happening in the "bridge" on #n0153bridge for anyone that wants to get in on the experiment
- 15:41 < AlSweigart> thex: And, really, do post an announcement on Discuss and field people's questions. I know you want to take a break from that list for a
- while, but just get this part done first.
- 15:41 < thex> i'm sorta with you on that
- 15:41 < AlSweigart> thex: Sorta?
- 15:42 < thex> well i got till the end of the year
- 15:42 < AlSweigart> unixjazz: Just to be clear, no walls have been built, but there's a large tarp the sections off the fire escape/spacebridge area and the
- few tables in front of it.
- 15:42 < thex> i have a hard time reading what you are saying, not as just another version of you have to ask to do something first, rather then just doing
- excellently
- 15:43 < thex> and the bridge is a departure, in that it most definetly is not concensus
- 15:43 < thex> and will not conform to comprimise
- 15:43 < thex> it will be what it is
- 15:43 < AlSweigart> thex: Basically, announce The Bridge on the mailing list, say what it's intended use is, and who will/will not be using the sleep pod.
- 15:43 < thex> and if anyone feels that it is keeping them or anyone from reasonably using the space, i invite you to come to the bridge and chat with me about
- it
- 15:44 < AlSweigart> thex: "and will not conform to comprimise" really concerns me
- 15:44 < thex> good
- 15:44 < unixjazz> alright!
- 15:44 < thex> i'm pretty sure that means its just unreasonable enough to possibly become reasonable with being ubsurdly extreme
- 15:45 < thex> without i mean
- 15:45 -!- unixjazz [~fido@76-218-104-100.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
- 15:45 < AlSweigart> thex: Noisebridge is not yours. It is a community. We encourage people to take initiative, but you can claim a section of the space as your
- own and not be willing to listen to other people's concerns.
- 15:46 < thex> i expect this will cause some friction, and would like to work with others to keep it from breaking other things, but i'm asking for some space
- to try, and fail
- 15:46 < thex> i am not claiming
- 15:46 < thex> but i am proclaiming personal responsibility for this specific part of noisebridge
- 15:47 < Cognition> I support reasonable naps at noisebridge, but if overnigt sleep is to be discouraged, a hidden sleep pod behind a tarp may not be a great
- idea.
- 15:47 < thex> and with that am taking some "ownership" for lack of a better word
- 15:47 < thex> to be clear the sleep pod is not behind/under a tarp
- 15:47 < thex> it's under a desk
- 15:47 < thex> with a horizontal door
- 15:47 < thex> i'll add pics to the wiki
- 15:48 < thex> and i'm not at all interested in hiding anything i'm doing
- 15:48 < thex> however i find it prudent to be discrete about some things
- 15:48 < AlSweigart> thex: What things?
- 15:48 < thex> especially in respect to maintaing a safe space used by kids at times
- 15:49 < thex> not presenting a image of noisebridge as "crash" pad by say napping for a few hours on the couch
- 15:49 < AlSweigart> thex: Like alcohol/weed use?
- 15:49 < thex> i prefer to sleep in the open in the space when I do
- 15:49 < thex> but i don't think gives a fair reflection of whats actually going on
- 15:49 < thex> yes as for some
- 15:50 < thex> out of sight out of mind
- 15:50 < thex> not that i condone or use that a excuse for illegal activities at/around nb
- 15:50 < thex> but i can be a responsible adult and consume alcohal in the space
- 15:50 < AlSweigart> thex: ...
- 15:51 < thex> i just don't find it appropriate persay sitting across from a 12 year old
- 15:51 < AlSweigart> thex: "out of sight out of mind" doesn't really reassure me about The Bridge being transparent.
- 15:51 < thex> and i don't have problems with kids on the bridge, so long as they have a gaurdian
- 15:51 < anasyrma> What is "The Bridge"?
- 15:51 < AlSweigart> anasyrma: I'll let thex take that question.
- 15:52 < AlSweigart> I'm still not sure myself.
- 15:52 < thex> "The Bridge" can be a way to refer to the hackerspace noisebridge in general
- 15:52 < thex> tell ya what
- 15:53 < thex> let me get back to figure out what the f'k the bridge is for myself, and there will be updates to follow
- 15:53 < AlSweigart> "The Bridge" isn't the entire space though, it's specifically a section of the space by the fire escape that thex set up last night.
- 15:53 < AlSweigart> So far it sounds like a place where you can sleep and drink booze.
- 15:53 < thex> in the meantime are there any concerns unanswered preventing anyone from use/enjoyment of the space potentially caused by this experimental
- bridge project
- 15:54 < thex> it totally is
- 15:54 < thex> cause it's a 1337 hackerspace space in a epic harkerspace known as "The Bridge"
- 15:54 < AlSweigart> ...and an inner circle that only "
- 15:54 < anasyrma> ...
- 15:54 < AlSweigart> leet" people can hang out at.
- 15:54 < anasyrma> do i even *want* to know what is going on?
- 15:54 < thex> and in at least my version of a hackerspace i wanna spend time at, sleeping and drink booze is a part of the experience, not what defines it
- however
- 15:55 < AlSweigart> anasyrma: One that thex does not want to disclose on the mailing list, because the mailing list folks "aren't real Noisebridgers".
- 15:55 < thex> i am open to input on access control policy to bridge
- 15:55 < thex> i would say it mirrors noisebridges
- 15:55 < thex> however that is in a unknown fail state at present
- 15:55 < thex> so i'm experimenting
- 15:56 < thex> i am also exploring some concepts around space and privacy
- 15:56 < thex> and see the "bridge" as a safer space to explore that, then say noisebridge at large
- 15:56 < AlSweigart> thex: This doesn't sound well thought out at all. Figure all this out and announce it on the mailing list today or tomorrow, because it
- should and will be announced there.
- 15:56 < thex> and i refer to jerkey's idea of "open to the public as much possible/reasonable" as a good default start
- 15:57 < thex> i rarely find myself doing epic things that are well thought out
- 15:57 < thex> they just sorta happen
- 15:57 < thex> more thinking will be applied as things evolve
- 15:59 < thex> in the meantime, west noisebridge is under construction, hard hats recomended
- 15:59 < thex> with any luck the dust will settle before the end of the year, and hard hats will be optional
- 15:59 < thex> however, i fully expect there to be broader shit storms to get kicked up along the way
- 15:59 < thex> ala sleeping
- 15:59 < thex> ala drinking
- 15:59 < thex> ala hacking
- 15:59 < thex> to be continued
- 16:00 < thex> i'm switching to #sudoroom for a while, will be back in time for meeting
- 16:00 < AlSweigart> thex: So, you *expect* there to be problems with sleeping and drinking in this thing you're building? Care to explain how you're planning
- to mitigate these issues?
- 16:00 < thex> no i don't care to explain right now
- 16:00 < thex> these things are already a huge problem
- 16:00 < thex> i have no hope/expection of fixing them
- 16:01 < thex> i don't see that as preventing me from doing it better, as we slowly find ways to improve/fix them
- 16:01 < AlSweigart> thex: But you can see why I think building a nap pod in an isolated part of the space will *increase* these problems, right?
- 16:01 < thex> expect problems, as this is not an overnight fix that can be "defined"
- 16:01 < thex> i can see how you would think that
- 16:02 < thex> i if it's not abundently clear, obviously have a different view
- 16:02 < thex> and over time would imagine we can find a way to share a more similar longer view
- 16:02 < AlSweigart> thex: I'm interested in what your view is. Can you explain how the sleep pod doesn't encourage more sleeping?
- 16:03 < thex> not right now
- 16:03 < Cognition> only those deemed 1337 will be sleeping...
- 16:03 < thex> i need to actually work on that problem
- 16:03 < thex> plz give me some time to evolve this before jumping to what i think i might know at this second
- 16:04 < AlSweigart> Okay. But *please* write up more info on the bridge and what it
- 16:04 < AlSweigart> 'll be used for on the wiki page. It doesn't have much info on it right now.
- 16:06 * thex reasonable request acknowledged
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