Mar

James Winter
James
Hey man what's up?
David
ayo
James Winter
James
Sorry I had flat passed out when you messaged
What's up
David
i was just curious how you felt about the new guys
other than worrying about not raiding next week
feels pretty promising atm, there are a lot of guilds dissolving all over
James Winter
James
I'm assuming Elricc conveyed all that him and I talked about?
David
I didn't know you guys talked
James Winter
James
Yeah we were talking while you had the 2nd/3rd officer meeting
David
kik
lol
someones always dragging us xd
James Winter
James
Honestly I had no problem with most of them. I mean other than when they'd get each other going they were fine.
I absolutely hate the new Warlock
David
yeah I was actually on the same boat.  I missed last night though, or last evening
oh dude
that warlock
was not supposed to come lol
since he transferred here after elricc told him nevermind....he's first on the bench unless he really turns things around
James Winter
James
Has he been told that he wasn't to come over?
Because if not I will
But, going back to the topic. I just felt it was handled poorly on both sides.
David
eh, I feel you but at the same time we'd say little things to them and it'd get turned into memes
James Winter
James
Felt that ultimately there was a bit of hypocrisy in the end.
David
oh
how so
James Winter
James
Well, let me link the screen shot I grabbed from their discord
David
I have to say, I didn't expect it to happen.  I think no one had a problem with Zexan or Adept.  Or even Olson/Shaly
James Winter
James

David
when they were separate that is
James Winter
James
Their comment about rape though wrong...
Very wrong
Isn't any different from how we talk or other people talk in the guild
David
yeah, pretty messed up.  luckily I didn't see it
James Winter
James
But that's the thing... people talk about that shit all the time regarding people in the guild
And nothing gets said
But when they did it everyone lost it
David
the rapey stuff?  I don't think it's ever taken seriously lol
James Winter
James
Well... then why was it
With them
David
but when someone is talking about raping a female and specifically naming the husband who is also in the guild...that's where it gets kinda dark
I mean on discord it's obviously in jest, I've never really paid too much attention to it.  Just background noise
that whole rapey thing though
that wasn't even why they were kicked
James Winter
James
Well, now I'm hearing 2 different things... you're saying it's not. And Elricc said it was and if they hadn't been kicked people aka Val, ruku and kruelos would have left. Which is childish
When they simply can just ignore them
David
yeah, they had said that long before today
2 others as well were really iffy
James Winter
James
So, personally all that rape shit and just random butt sex shit should just stop. If it's going to be taken seriously randomly
David
I don't know, there's a big difference to me between two dudes that know each other joking about the gay stuff and someone saying it in private
no one has ever had a problem with it
or said anything
James Winter
James
Bro people talk shit and say shit to people in secret all the time
David
eh that's going to happen
can't stop or worry about that
James Winter
James
Like, that message you shot shaly and them basically asking them to make the warlock quit
How would that have gone over
David
to olson
James Winter
James
Whoever it was. It's the point of people saying stuff in private
And no one ever says anything about it because typically when they do, it gets turned into a joke.
David
I get where you're coming from, but I want to be clear.  That's not why they were kicked.  I let people know I did it.  He wasn't even going to be ginvited but Pos did it because he got on that morning and didn't know
James Winter
James
I don't even go to people for help anymore but I'll whisper the person and tell them to chill the fuck out
And says it's uncalled for
David
anytime we said anything to them it just became a meme, that's fine.  It just did not work in our environment.  It was literally one thing after another.  We'd hoped that it would eventually work out once we raided together more and people got a little more familiar
midway during week two we were looking to replace an officer with one of them to integrate them into the group a bit more
give them a voice since they were such a big part of the raid
James Winter
James
You'd promote them before me? The fuck
David
and they ruined that for themselves
James Winter
James
Now I'm pissed
Kidding... about being pissed
David
lol
I didn't even know how to respond to that, like uhh 😉
James Winter
James
But about thinking to promote them before me. I'm salty bro
David
eh, the point of it was to make them a part of us.  We were feeling them out and it got thrown out after all the minor incidents
James Winter
James
Shit needs to change. Ultimately. We need to raid efficient and get good dps to do so. I know you'll say that you and Elricc are recruiting but we can't keep going through this bullshit week after week.
I want to get realm first and stuff but we aren't gonna get it if we kick people who just have attitude issues
David
well you know, our bench quit and we had how many people have rl issues this week
James Winter
James
Yeah yeah
David
it was more than just an attitude issue, it sucks to kick them
yeah yeah what?
lol
James Winter
James
No I was agreeing with what you said
David
we just ripped off the bandaid.  We could've just made everyone stick it out until Tomb
James Winter
James
I wouldn't have had a problem with it.
And more than likely the only way those 2 found out about the screen shot that was posted was probably from one of the officers and/or senzy whispering ruku when I had told you
David
ruku and kreulos don't even know what was said
James Winter
James
There's such a lack in communication....
David
?
James Winter
James
And/or just a big miscommunication
Well, again you and Elricc say 2 different things
David
whatever elricc said, that's not what was talked about
when we decided this
James Winter
James
Then, why were they kicked ultimately?
Other than the meme
David
because shaly and olson are toxic as fuck and it was never going to work long term
Everytime people started to feel differently, they did something else.
James Winter
James
It's because they called shit out.
I hate that pussy footing around
Like I get that you guys think that it's the officers job to do everything
But you can't make it your job to do everything
David
called what out?
you're making some big assumptions here
James Winter
James
If I see someone fuck up im gonna call the person out and/or whisper them
David
that stuff is fine, it irritates people but that can just be ignored
James Winter
James
And if it keeps happening I'll bring it to one of y'all
David
that's fine and they did to anna and I didn't care because it wasn't malicious
James Winter
James
But it gets treated as such by everyone else
The environment when they whispered her during star auger and she went afk to chill out pissed people off because they assumed they just laid into her
David
what are you talking about
she was feeling sick from the meds
and went outside to physically cool down
James Winter
James
Right, I understand that because I knew that...
Most didn't
People who I was in party with were literally talking about how those "new guys" were probably giving her shit again
And making her upset
It doesn't really matter at this point. They're gone now, and we're to recruit for next week and hopefully tomb
David
if people thought that oh well, I don't get your point there
James Winter
James
The point is that people were basically channeling their frustration and agitation towards them without knowing the facts. Or at least all of them.
They easily could have just fully muted them and it would have been fine
But, as we discussed bandwagoning with friends happened when people started getting upset
David
It would've just kept happening with more people
James Winter
James
And shit rolled down hill
David
every week it was someone else
James Winter
James
That's because they wanted people to play better
You see that shit in any guild you watch
Like I'm sure you aware of how annoying it is to have to teach people how to do mechanics every week
Over and over
Like, when I messed up star auger that night I wanted to quit right here and log off because I was ashamed how bad I messed up
They wanted people to play better
Their tactfulness was just shit
David
sure I get frustrated
but I know raging about it over discord isn't going to make anyone play better
James Winter
James
Well, again, something's gotta fix it. And not denouncing what you guys do in private meetings or whatever. But sometimes people when they hear it from peers rather than "higher ups" it carries more weight
David
I have to take a shower and get ready to go, but we'll talk about it more later.  There wasn't any particular event that caused this.  They did nothing to help themselves.  I've never been in a raiding guild where people don't talk shit, it's just a part of it.  But if you don't think some of the shit they did was excessive you're crazy
James Winter
James
The only thing I found excessive was them posting meme's in the General channel. When they were given their meme section I was fine
I can block annoying people out
David
we had petty complaints and it's pretty easy to see when someone was just being sensitive because they're already annoyed or frustrated with them
James Winter
James
I suppose.
David
shaly is a ridiculously good player, I mean they all were
i wish it didn't come to this, I was really frustrated with them for a while but I was warming up.
James Winter
James
But alright man go shower. And work. I'll be home later with discord open but might not be on much gonna work on some school stuff
David
word, if I see you on discord when I'm driving I'll pop on for a bit
James Winter
James
Did y'all talk about me last night at all during any of your meetings
8:25AM

David
No
6:04PM

David
why are you so defensive of them all the sudden?  If anyones being a hypocrite it seems to have been you
reflecting back on some things and reread this a tad
i don't know what you're thinking or what you're aiming to do but it's not very productive lol
James Winter
James
I was just defensive because people like we discussed earlier were going back and forth with them and how they felt about them... it wasn't by any means only one person from their group.
I guess I'm just overly defensive because now I'm worried about this guild being able to bounce back quickly.
I've invested so much into this guild... literally I've given a shit load.
I was over it until you brought it back up
Lol
David
yeah because I just looked back through it and it's so fucking stupid dude
James Winter
James
I know there was a lot of random babble and round about conversations
Also, I will not be online tonight. Going out for dinner.
What's the gist of the meeting?
David
your entire argument sucks and im getting pissed re-reading it
they weren't kicked because people didn't like them
they were kicked because of their own actions and attitude
they were given plenty of time
they ruined it for themselves
I don't remember anyone ever joking or talking about rape
until they did
all i know and I constantly see you trying to get into other people's business and the glimpses you get you seem to just form full on conclusions based on that information
James Winter
James
I don't go in blind man... I knew and know quite a lot. And I go back to what I kept saying this morning every time you brought the counter argument. That there's 2 different stories. So that in itself is annoying. Yeah, we can go back and forth about it. But there's no point. It's not something I have any ability to fix. Nor do I want to even revisit. They deserve what they got. Imo purely based on what I heard... the memes were childish... yeah. But my tolerance for annoyance form my job is apparently quite high compared to others.
James Winter
James
2 different stories meaning what Elricc told me. And what you're telling me. But again, not too sure why we went ahead and revisited this... lol
Like I said. My major concern is Tuesday and going back into mythic and being able to go 8/10 with progress next week
Seen by James Winter at 6:24pm