Erlana - 07/03/2018
I should have said this early but like
Chill
lemonpaeroa - 07/03/2018
yeah maybe you should have said that instead of attacking me
Erlana - 07/03/2018
Okay but like read the room and this convo
lemonpaeroa - 07/03/2018
i was being playful, you decide to bring jesse in on it and you both start going at me, and take it to a personal place(edited)
because you were too prideful to call it quits
and now are saying it's my fault for not reading the room
yeah sweet good onya mate
Erlana - 07/03/2018
Yeah I went about the situation the wrong way for sure
I should have just said chill rather than take it to the group chat
And I should also be more forthcoming and just say point blank when I'm not in the mood for being 'playful'
lemonpaeroa - 07/03/2018
i appreciate the apology but i'm pretty pissed off that i had to force it out of you because you wanted to frame it as being entirely my fault at first
Erlana - 07/03/2018
When did that happen?
lemonpaeroa - 07/03/2018
Erlana - Today at 11:10 AM
I should have said this early but like
Chill

lemonpaeroa - Today at 11:10 AM
yeah maybe you should have said that instead of attacking me

Erlana - Today at 11:11 AM
Okay but like read the room and this convo
Erlana - 07/03/2018
I don't remember ever explicitly saying "Everything is Matt's fault'?
lemonpaeroa - 07/03/2018
you brushed my comment off and continued to try and point out what you were saying
i'm aware that i'm being snarky i'm not an idiot
Erlana - 07/03/2018
How is me acknowledging that I shouldn't have gone about the situation the way that I did
lemonpaeroa - 07/03/2018
you don't have to try and break it down for me i understood what you were trying to say the first time
Erlana - 07/03/2018
And acknowledging that I should have communicated clearly
Saying that it's all your fault??
lemonpaeroa - 07/03/2018
that is not what i said
Erlana - 07/03/2018
"You wanted to frame it as being entirely my fault"
lemonpaeroa - 07/03/2018
can you just
let me finish what i'm trying to say
Erlana - 07/03/2018
That's exactly what you said
lemonpaeroa - 07/03/2018
without cutting me off
Erlana - 07/03/2018
And im asking you to tell me when i said that
Which is what I thought your reply was but okay. Ill listen
lemonpaeroa - 07/03/2018
wanted is past tense, i meant that you were trying to frame it as my fault when you said

Erlana - Today at 11:10 AM
I should have said this early but like
Chill

lemonpaeroa - Today at 11:10 AM
yeah maybe you should have said that instead of attacking me

Erlana - Today at 11:11 AM
Okay but like read the room and this convo


until i kept hammering in the point that you were being pretty snarky too. though i do see now that you were admitting to some fault when you said "i should have said this earlier" but to then brush off me saying you were piling on me, by going 'yeah yeah but anyway you misread the situation and room?' without acknowledging it made me feel like you were refusing to acknowledge your part in the situation and that frustrated me
but even so you weren't admitting to your fault of bringing it to the group chat, it just felt like you were saying "it's my fault for letting you be mentally unhinged for this long" which felt very condescending and not like you were realising or acknowledging your part in the situation at all if you just view yourself as my 'tamer'
it was this part of the conversation i was referring to when i said you were trying to pin everything on me, not later when you did admit you shouldn't have taken it to the group chat
but when you did i was frustrated that i had to actively get you to admit your part in it, rather than opening with it
i get enough of jesse blaming his problems all on me i don't need you doing it too
like i said i'm aware of my own part in it and that i was being over the top, but i did say last night that i was feeling vulnerable after both of you were gunning me down for some shit, so to bring something else to group chat for you both to rag on me for was not a very sensitive move. so yeah i didn't react rationally, because i told you how i've been feeling and you just acted in blatant disregard of that
and i didn't specify the timeframe when i said you were trying to frame it as my fault, and you misinterpreted it again, so i guess i do have problems communicating after all! so that's fun!
Erlana - 07/03/2018
Okay are you finished? Cause I don't want to cut across you
lemonpaeroa - 07/03/2018
one last thing sorry
i realise that i'm overly snarky and it can get out of hand but i think part of it does actually come from the fact that you never really acknowledge any point i'm trying to come back with and you just change the subject, or escalate the situation, which i'm guilty of too and definitely need to chill
ok i'm done
Erlana - 07/03/2018
I'm going to try and reply to these points in order
Because there's a lot to unpack and respond to here
Just to clarify
When you say "you were being pretty snarky too", are you referring to the way I was talking to you after the 'stalker' comment?
lemonpaeroa - 07/03/2018
in group chat
Erlana - 07/03/2018
Right okay
Okay
1. I acknowledge that I was being snarky in the channel. Like I said, that wasn't the best way to go about the situation and I accept part of the blame for that. Me saying, "I should have said to chill" was my way of indicating that I had handled the situation poorly and that I should have gone about it differently by being upfront about how I was feeling. My intention was to try and deescalate the conversation by making light of it in the group chat, but like I've said many times already, that was a bad call to make. I think that "Okay but like read the room" was a poor choice of words as it made it seem like I was deflecting your point, when I should have acknowledge it and said, "Yes, okay, that's a valid point." But I don't know how much further I could have gone in acknowledging your point given that you had essentially agreed to the point that I was making, in that I should have just told you to chill originally.
2. This is the paragraph that I have a major issue with. Saying "I should have said this early but like chill" is exactly my way of admitting that it was wrong of me to go about the situation like I did. Though I can understand that, as a conversation opener, it probably didn't appear like a forthright apology. That said, when I say I should have done something, I'm acknowledging that I have navigated the situation poorly. What I'm about to say may sound harsh but this is how I feel; I strongly object to you implying that I was saying "it's my fault for letting you be mentally unhinged for this long'". That is categorically not what I was saying, and I hope that you're expressing how the situation made you feel as opposed to putting words in my mouth. Acknowledging my part in the situation is exactly what I was doing when I said "I should have done this" and so implying there was this nascent dynamic in which I think you're mentally unhinged and that I view myself as a 'tamer' is totally out of left field to be honest. I'm saying that I should have been better about communicating that you were being too snarky.
3. I'll acknowledged that that's what was happening in the group chat when Jesse and I were saying those things about you.
4. Bringing up the point in the group chat was a bad move and I'll acknowledge it again. I should have been more sensitive honestly. My rationale was to try and diffuse the situation by making light of it, but things went too far and got out of hand. Even though that was my intention, it still didn't demonstrate any sensitivity to your feelings, especially given what has happened recently. I'm sorry.(edited)
Erlana - 07/03/2018
5. As for me misinterpreting the timeframe or when you said I was pinning everything on you, let me clarify what happened. You accused me of pinning everything on you and, when I asked "When did that happen?" you gave the whole "I should have said this early but like, chill" response as a reply, which made it seem as if that was the example you were giving of the moment that I was trying to pin everything on you. Naturally this was confusing as, in that moment, I was acknowledging my responsibility in handling the situation poorly.
lemonpaeroa - 07/03/2018
1. you just gave an example of how you could have acknowledged my point in that very paragraph so i don't know what you mean by "i don't know how much further i could have gone"

2. yeah i was trying to say how the situation made me feel, i tried to say "it felt like" and "it made me feel" as much as possible to try and communicate how it had come across to me rather than what you were actually saying. i did say that 'i see now that you were trying to admit some fault', so i then went to explain how i had interpreted it initially and why i felt upset because of it

5. i guess it was because i glossed over you saying "i should have said this earlier" because i was upset, i got frustrated because i did say "at first" and then you were still like "tell me when" so i was like i did though how could i have said that differently, but it was my fault for not reading what you had said properly(edited)
Erlana - 07/03/2018
1. That's true. I think the wording is an issue here. In saying "Okay," I was trying to acknowledge that what you were saying was relevant and valid but, like I said, the 'but...' that came afterwards made it seem like I was being dismissive. I guess I was trying my best to use the same phrase that you've used with Jesse before, wherein you've encouraged him to read the room and the situation, but it was clearly the wrong time and place to try and do that.
2. That's absolutely understandable and I at least hope that, if anything positive comes of this, it's that you can rest easy knowing that I don't regard you as mentally unhinged or someone that needs tempering.
5. It's good we cleared this up, because I think it's important for me to clarify that at no point during this whole situation did I ever blame you for everything, and have consistently accepted responsibility and articulated my own mistakes in trying to handle things.
Are you still about or?
lemonpaeroa - 07/03/2018
yeah i'm just having a similar conversation with jesse, i'm so drained and don't know what to say
Erlana - 07/03/2018
We could either end it here for now or continue
But I do think this is mostly an issue between us and that Jesse got sucked into it when I oved it into the Discord group
I'm not telling you what to do because obviously that would be undermining your own feelings
But I don't think Jesse could have known what was happening when I posted the picture and started being snarky
I know what he said was still upsetting given the circumstances lately, but I feel like what happened is mostly between us
lemonpaeroa - 07/03/2018
there's obviously a lot of underlying tension between me and jesse as well,  so while the issue at hand might be mostly between us there's definitely other shit going on as well
Erlana - 07/03/2018
Yeah agreed
I have just stepped away from my PC btw, I can see you typing so just wanted you to know.
It seemed like you were preoccupied with Jesse, in which case I figured it would make sense to go to bed, as it's 1.35am for me anyway
lemonpaeroa - 07/03/2018
i do just want to clarify, with 5, when you say you've consistently articulated your own mistakes, i disagree. i feel like that comment paints a picture of you doing everything right but you didn't articulate your point clearly when you said "okay but", and you weren't 'consistently acknowledging your own mistakes' when you kept cutting me off and saying "how is that framing everything as your fault" after i had said you brushed my comment off and went back to your own point.

i realise that you want to clarify that you feel you were totally clear and weren't trying to make me feel the way i did after i misinterpreted what you were trying to say, but it goes back to my whole issue of like "i realise i was wrong, but can you admit that you were wrong too without having to have it pointed out to you?", since it just feels very straight-man-like to be all "well at least i did everything right"
again that's not me saying you did feel you were entirely in the right, it's just how i felt it came across
Erlana - 07/03/2018
Okay but, to clarify again, I didn't ask your to clarify how I had said that everything was your fault after you had said that I had brushed your comment off
I asked for clarification after you explicitly said that I had said everything was your fault
I know that you were referring to me brushing off the comment in that sentence
But your exact words were that I had said that everything was your fault
lemonpaeroa - 07/03/2018
there's the "okay but" again
was there any part of what i said that you agree with or did you just want to counter the points you don't agree with?
Erlana - 07/03/2018
Let me get back on my pc.
lemonpaeroa - 07/03/2018
you can leave it til it's a better time for you i don't want to cut into your rest
Erlana - 07/03/2018
It's easier to just do it this way anyway
I stand by what I just said, with regarding to me wanting clarification regarding when I had said that everything was your fault. I can still acknowledge my mistakes and ask for clarification regarding the points that you were making. That's just how a disagreement works. Besides, we were both cutting over each other anyway. Saying that "you weren't consistently acknowledging your own mistakes because you asked for clarification on a point I made and cut over me when were were both cutting over each other" is extremely unfair.
I do acknowledging that I didn't articulate my mistakes clearly and I'll accept that as a criticism. I think that it is fair to say that I have attempted to do so and that acknowledging my mistakes has been my intention since starting with the "I should have said this earlier but chill" sentence, even if it did not come across that way. The intention was there.
Furthermore I don't appreciate the comparisons to straight men really.
Because I'm not saying "Oh at least I did this!" and taking the most distant, unrelated thing that is somehow positive and trying to twist that to make the situation better.
What I am doing is trying to articulate what I was attempting to do from my own perspective, as what I was trying to do and what came across was clearly disconnected
Because my attempt to say 'I should have handled that situation differently and I'll take the blame for that' did not come across as such
I feel that saying that is very 'straight-man-like' is unfair as I'm simply trying to articulate the situation and my intentions from my own perspective
To forego doing so would be me allowing you to project exactly what you felt was happening onto the situation, which clearly isn't fair.
Or rather; allowing you to project what you felt was happening and then allowing that to be how we regard this situation.
Otherwise we don't then allow ourselves the opportunity to have a discussion where you say "This is how that came across" and I'm then able to say "This is what I was trying to do."
lemonpaeroa - 07/03/2018
okay, i acknowledge that the straight man comparisons are uncalled for, i was just trying to point out the overall concept of "well at least i did everything right" for clarity rather than having to explain it again, but the nuances that came with it are unfair and unwarranted, i agree with that and i apologise
i don't know what you're trying to say with 'allowing me to project my feelings onto the situation', because i was explaining how i had felt, as in, had felt in the past, but then was explaining myself when i had a better understanding of the situation. it was pretty much all but cleared up, and then it felt like you were going back and saying "i did everything right".
i am frustrated that this is the third time that i've had to make this point, since you have yet to respond to it, but the last time it was your turn to contribute to the conversation, you reverted back to the "okay, but" way of expressing yourself. you were refuting the things that you disagree with, without seeming to acknowledge that there was anything true to what i said, which to me just comes across as arrogant.

i know that you have acknowledged the criticism about articulation, but i'm referring to the time before that.
and i think that's what frustrated me with your last response to point 5, you went back and clarified all the things that you did right, that you were consistent with, and didn't mention anything you did wrong. i know you mentioned them in other points, but to just talk about everything that you did right in that one paragraph felt like you were taking solace in what you did right to balance out where you went wrong
Erlana - 07/03/2018
1. Thank your for apologising
3. You're right. It's so easy to zero in on the one thing you disagree with and respond to that. In the future I'll try that at least say something like, "I agree with what you've said" and acknowledge the points which I think are valid before articulating my own disagreement.
#2/#5 - That isn't what I was doing and I wasn't trying to bask/take solace in what I perceived as my own merits/good points. When I said:

"I think it's important for me to clarify that at no point during this whole situation did I ever blame you for everything, and have consistently accepted responsibility and articulated my own mistakes in trying to handle things."

That was my way of saying, "I'm glad that I've been able to clarify the situation and that you can at least understand that I've tried to be apologetic and have tried to take responsibility for the way I've handled this situation." It wasn't a case of me saying "Just to clarify; I absolutely did everything right." My response to #5 was more or less my way of saying "I'm glad that we've been able to reach a point in the conversation where you can see that I've tried to be contrite, even if it didn't read as such."
Just to clarify in simple terms in case the explanation is unclear; my #5 response wasn't my way of saying "at least I did everything right", it was my way of saying "I'm glad that we've clarified that I've tried to be contrite and have apologised, whereas before it may have seemed as if I was trying to place the entire blame upon you."(edited)
I wouldn't have ever said "I did everything right" ; I've already apologised for not articulating my intentions clearly and for instigating the situation by handling it poorly to begin with.(edited)
I'm not saying that apologising excuses what happened or anything to that effect
What I'm trying to do here is demonstrate that I certainly don't have a "I did everything right" mentality here.
lemonpaeroa - 07/03/2018
right, that makes sense. i guess i knew deep down that you didn't have that mentality, but forgot that you admitted being in the wrong in previous points because in that one point it came across differently. i wasn't saying that you did have that mentality, i was just trying to explain how it came across, but i understand now and thanks for clearing it up
Erlana - 07/03/2018
all good
It was a stressful situation generally so I think we can both be forgiven if meaning was misconstrued(edited)