[19:14]
ShaunLAD:
	hey nalurah u here?

[19:15]
Nalurah:
	I am, what´s up?

[19:17]
ShaunLAD:
	i was just wondering if youve seen my recent report a player on naylor, if not do you think you could take a look, ive been around on RPUK for a long time now, and think was naylor done was unacceptable. what do you think on the situation
	as i dont wanna waste staffs time, if he never done anything wrong
	i feel like i know the rules back to front, and jeep dosent control another players actions right

[19:18]
Nalurah:
	I haven't read or watched the footage yet. But I have already heard of it and been requested to talk to both of you and see if a ts discussion can lead to a civilized conclusion as I fear part of this situation was due to the rather increased tention between Police and Poseidon
	Would you be willing to try that? I will first of course look into the report
	If you feel like because I am a member of Poseidon I can't be objective enough then of course I can ask another admin who is a member of the police

[19:21]
ShaunLAD:
	i am going to be honest here, there has been multiple situations i have been in with not just naylor but posiedon in general and feel like speaking about the situation wont solve anything just like it hasnt in the past before. so if im honest i dont want to speak about it for that reason alone

[19:22]
Nalurah:
	Understandable, a lot of mistakes are being made on both sides from what I can tell and see
	It's why me and Curley have been talking about it a lot to try and decrease the tension a bit

[19:25]
ShaunLAD:
	on our side i feel like we have done nothing wrong. in that situation posiedon didint have to get invloved. we as police are meant to crack down on illegal activites happening around the island. whether thats your lands or ours. as you can see by jeeps response. he said at 46 seconds he was shot at, skip to 46. he was nowhere in site.  he couldve easliy drove away from that situation and never

[19:25]
Nalurah:
	It is my opinion atleast that this stems from a bigger problem right now being the tension between the two factions and people getting too frustrated. It was also why I made the reference to it in the community meeting about leaving previous situations behind you and moving on. A lot of people however seem to have some difficulties with that
	When it comes to this particular situation I don't know but in terms of overall mistakes are made on both sides
	Which is what I meant

[19:27]
ShaunLAD:
	i get what you mean by you saying the tension between the 2 factions recently have been high, but at the end of the day. that totally destroyed any sort of roleplay that couldve happened between us and the rebels. and for us to be shot at like that was disgraceful. i dont hold any grudges against anyone in posiedon. but a rule break is a rule break regardless which is why i took it to a report

[19:30]
Nalurah:
	True enough. My main reason for also wanting to have a talk is because both of you are back on the server because of me intervening with management to get you guys an appeal opportunity. And I know both of you aren't bad people just make mistakes sometimes. I can look into the report but in the end I am not supposed to deal with it as community liaison
	That would be for a lvl 3 plus to do
	I just fear the amount of drama and extra reports it will cause because of the tension
	For now people don't really report each other despite horrid behaviour on both sides because they are both guilty
	Again not saying you are but have seem some horrid behaviour on both sides

[19:33]
ShaunLAD:
	a appreciate your thought on said situation. i myself agree that there has been bad moments between police and posiedon. but i try and distance myself from any of that what happens, but like ive said a rulebreak is still a rulebreak regardless whether there is tension between the factions or not.

[19:33]
Nalurah:
	True
	Would you like me to look into it still?

[19:34]
ShaunLAD:
	i mean i mainly messeged you to see what you thought about the situation, was in right to say regardless
	i right to say regardless jeeps failed initiation he is STILL not responsible for the other posiedon members actions?

[19:35]
Nalurah:
	Let me study the report and situation and I will get back to you ok?

[19:35]
ShaunLAD:
	its like me asking someone, 'have i been in the server 15 minutes to get involved'
	yeah thats no problem

[19:41]
Nalurah:
	If I am going to be completely honest, having watched the footage, this was Jeep's fault, not Naylor. I was actually in the channel when this situation happens and Jeep had hotmiced the initiation and given the ok. Not knowing until it was too late that it was in vehicle. Didn't know it was this situation until I saw the video just now.
	If anything to be honest it was a stupid mistake

[19:43]
ShaunLAD:
	so if thats the case in future if this happens it can be said as a simple 'mistake'? because regardless if jeep never initiated properly or not. naylor is responsible for the bullets that comes out of his gun regardless. i appreciate your feedback on this situation

[19:44]
Nalurah:
	To be honest, I have seen it before where it happens and people indeed apologize and move on because mistakes happen. I can bring it in during a rules meeting but personally I would forgive and forget
	Obviously a point of abuse if they are aware of the initiation being bad and then claiming it to be a mistake
	In this case I know it seemed good from the Poseidon POV but of course it wasn't

[19:48]
ShaunLAD:
	if jeep did initiate in vehicle after realising this. posiedon couldve left. but they continued to stop and start a gunfight, like i said i will let the admins decide what happens in this situation. theres been no messege from either of the 2 to apoligize about the situation. so im just gonna leave it up and whatever happens happens. i appreciate your feedback tho. as always its appreciated :)

[19:49]
Nalurah:
	I actually came across Hammah and Jeep as they tried to sort it out and he was apologizing and getting him to medics, did you already respawn at that point?

[19:50]
ShaunLAD:
	im not sure, but even still jeep wasnt the one who shot hammah it was naylor

[19:50]
Nalurah:
	I feel like indeed an apology is in order and it's being discussed further within the staff team how to deal with these 'faulty' initiations as they are common mistakes

[19:51]
ShaunLAD:
	at the end of the day its always been stated you are responsible for your own actions

[19:51]
Nalurah:
	Is there something else that bothers you about Naylor? Not trying to offend you in any way but Naylor seems pretty innocent in this case as the initiation seems good and a mistake like this happens in every faction/gang. It seems you really dislike him though which concerns me a little
	Of course but you would also shoot if you are benching and heard the initiation being hot-miced right?

[19:53]
ShaunLAD:
	i hold no personal grudges against naylor. i like naylor hes a cool guy. but regardless hes broken a rule. and i as a police officer always initiate twice just incase the other party never heard

[19:55]
Nalurah:
	Funnily enough similar situation happened a few days ago but the other way around with PC Spoon initiating in vehicle. We're discussing as a staff team now who the guilty party is (initiator or shooter). In my opinion neither as it's a common mistake that of course warrants an apology but shouldn't be considered a rulebreak. But perhaps I am a bit of a softie sometimes ;)

[19:57]
ShaunLAD:
	i think regardless cop or rebel, the shooter is always responsible. 100% if thats the case people could always say 'sorry, was in vehicle when i intiated'

[19:57]
Nalurah:
	Of course
	This is what I wrote to staff team: In my opinion this report has no true guilty party as it was a mistake. They should apologize of course for the mistake and try to rectify it (comp?) but otherwise it's something for the rules meeting to see how to deal with these situations in the future. My only concern is that Shaun hinted at abusing the 'mistake' rule then in his favour.
	The last bit is as it can be abused by rebels
	As you hinted at that

[20:00]
ShaunLAD:
	i never hinted it to be used in my favour? like ive said i make sure that the initiation is valid by doing it twice

[20:01]
Nalurah:
	This message I mean: so if thats the case in future if this happens it can be said as a simple 'mistake'? because regardless if jeep never initiated properly or not. naylor is responsible for the bullets that comes out of his gun regardless. i appreciate your feedback on this situation

[20:01]
ShaunLAD:
	but if thats the case in the future other people may use that as an excuse. because if action isint taken against it. it then means anyone can do it right?

[20:01]
Nalurah:
	Yeah that is a problem which we will discuss in the staff team
	And in the end it's up to a level 3 staff or higher to deal with the report
	You have my opinion and I hope it was useful to you despite it perhaps not being what you wanted to hear.

[20:03]
ShaunLAD:
	feedback is feedback. all feedback is good as it makes me look at it from anothers perspective. but i still think whichever way you look at it the guy who shoots is the one responsible for his actions whether thats me or anyone

[20:03]
Nalurah:
	True, but devil's advocate here. That means that you will always have to initiate yourself because you can't be sure of the other's initiation making snipers pointless
	Two sides to a story right?

[20:04]
ShaunLAD:
	true, but thats why i said. always initiate twice. make sure your 100% before you start shooting as thats the last option right>
	?

[20:06]
Nalurah:
	True, tricky one regardless, I am sure you just provided us with a very long rules meeting next monday X.X
	So thanks for that ;)

[20:07]
ShaunLAD:
	no problem, thats my take on it anyways. i agree its a different one. but still RDM imo. always make sure your 100% before offloading bullets towards someone ;)

[20:08]
Nalurah:
	True enough though I am not sure if all of the server agrees. You have become more careful with gunfights I noticed since your return and I actively avoid them if I can. But some unfortunately quickly go from gunfight to gunfight and would likely deem double initiation a hastle
	Some find initiation in and of itself already a hastle ;)

[20:10]
ShaunLAD:
	true. i will let staff decide what they do with the report. im not always right, but i think in this situation other may disagree. just have to see what happens ;)

[20:10]
Nalurah:
	Yeah I will keep you posted
	Good talk though :)

[20:11]
ShaunLAD:
	indeed. i thank you again have a good day :)

[20:11]
Nalurah:
	You too :) And anytime, always happy to help