AmanugaiToday at 6:12 PM
hey Chantalle, this is something a bit awkward to bring up, but I did promise to you before that if I caught something that I'd point it out right?

AnjulyToday at 6:12 PM
yep

AmanugaiToday at 6:12 PM
I didn't want to do it last night as it was right as you were falling asleep.

AnjulyToday at 6:12 PM
oh?

AmanugaiToday at 6:24 PM
It was related to the User resolving incident.  I did have a few issues with how things went and I did discuss a bit with Tyto about it.  There was one miscommunication error that nearly sparked a conflict between Tyto and I, and that was you saying that he said "you're rationalizing".  At the time I took that to mean that he thought I was rationalizing about my rules and nearly went off on him that my rules had purpose and definition to them.  I soon found out that he had to said to you specifically that you were rationalizing, not me.

That's an understandable mistake since you were just literally saying what he was saying but it did put me off that I nearly had a conflict with him over it. Luckily we talked things out and we discussed stuff rationally.

Another thing was the bias against User, and the intention to put him on a Warned role whereas I was planning on just a warning.  Talking with you made it seem like he was bent on doing something bad where I had to take a step back and ended up talking with Tyto again about it and reaffirmed that a warning was best since he didn't break a rule and that nothing happened past that.

This brings me to this conclusion, Tyto and I both do see biases at times from you, if they happen to cross you.  If User and Mimi both broke the same rule (assuming no prior punishments) would you say that you would punish them or advocate the same punishment equally?  Luci has an understandable fear of you as well since you have dug into things he's done to make an example out of him.
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This is not to my standards of an Arch-Angel, and I am speaking to you as the administrator and as a boyfriend trying to be as honest as possible.  A moderator of that level has to be able to handle confrontation with all sorts of people, being able to treat people as fairly as possible so that they can trust the moderator team's decision even if they don't agree with it completely.

To think of it another way.  If you joined a server and you happened to make a mistake, would you be fine with being looked at closely, made an example of in the public chat for others to see and possibly had punishments handed down that were a bit harsher b/c of bias?

You have done a lot for the server, and when it's come to pointing out the rules you have helped to sweep up a lot of the more erroneous stuff like nsfw in sfw chats.  But as bad as this sounds, I think you're probably better suited for the Angel role, which is meant to mostly point out that stuff to newcomers and to let moderators know of more serious infractions like you have already been doing.
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Sorry for writing so much and I know it might be a lot to take in.  I hope this doesn't upset you too much

AnjulyToday at 6:26 PM
wow ok, that is much

AnjulyToday at 6:33 PM
i guess though i should explain the two main points, the jump to warned role and the public punishing.
i am very much stuck to protocols/procedures in that if someone told me that there are certain steps, i would follow them to the letter. so that's why i jumped to warned as that would have been the next step. if anyone else would have come to that point, i would have thought the same. but yeah i can see i am biased to some people. i am very much hurt in how luis kept coming for you while i was getting more and more jealous and him bullying me didn't help. for luci i am very hurt for how he treated tyto. that will take time to heal.
as for the public punishing, i believe in deterring others through showing punishments in public. from warnings to exclaiming someone has a ! role, it makes it clear to others.

now you know my reasoning. i am a bit upset, as i have put so much effort and tbf my mental health into it, but i understand your reasoning.

AmanugaiToday at 6:45 PM
Thank you for your thorough reply, and this will be the last time I spill out this much tonight I promise >.>

I am not diminishing the sacrifices and thought you have put into your actions at all, I acknowledge you have sacrificed a lot and it is more than I could ask for.  It's only that the server follows the will of my image, and I believe that some of those actions don't match the server that I'd wish it to be.

As for protocol, it may not have been written specifically, but any action taken of that level should be discussed with the whole of the moderator team beforehand.  I know you didn't jump the gun actually putting the role on but again not mentioning your intention of the Warned role and passing that onto Tyto w/o Tyto knowing I was thinking of a warning did cause a miscommunication.

Luis has in general been forced to behave and even if he feels insincere I can't deny that asides from this recent incident he has done nothing to disrupt the server, nor the streams.  He still has the warning, and if he continues to toe the rules he will be punished, but every step of the way I do want to give him a chance to turn things around so that we can say that we truly gave the chances.

Our methods of public punishing are definitely different, and I come from a management standpoint that public punishing creates unnecessary fear and distrust of management.  Public berating is something of an older management method and while it can work, it is entirely different from taking a person aside, and giving them the chance to redeem themselves while avoiding embarrassment.  I cannot by any means truly say that I would be satisfied, understanding and happy that I was made an example of for a mistake, nor given a lable and pointed out as an aberrant without having the chance to really speak for myself.
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I think if someone is repeatedly breaking rules with intent to really cause havoc, a public showing would be more understandable and we have done that to good effect and people understood because it was obvious they were just troublemakers.  But other than extreme situations, I'm a believer in not putting heads on stakes so to say.  I don't want my server to be place where rules are followed out of fear.  I want them followed because of common sense and courtesy to the others of the server.  Someone who doesn't respect the rules at all can see themselves out, but those who make legitimate or ignorant mistakes shouldn't be treated like that.

That's my heartfelt thoughts on all this.  I have faced trauma with punishments, let alone public ones, and I flinch each time my dad raises his hand and he doesn't seem to really understand the in-born fear I developed due to corporal punishment.  I believe there are better methods and I want to do my best to shape people without giving them the same feelings I've been burdened with

AnjulyToday at 6:48 PM
i see

AmanugaiToday at 6:49 PM
I felt agitated while writing some of this, sorry if that came across in a bad way

AnjulyToday at 6:49 PM
thank you though babe for pointing it out
nah, it was good
i'm sorry i made you agitated

AmanugaiToday at 6:50 PM
It's okay, it's mostly because we had differing viewpoints on something and I just wanted it to be made clear without it being ignored or distorted is all.  I tend to feel like that when stuff like this comes up.

AnjulyToday at 6:52 PM
tight hug i am truly sorry though for having you think of your fathers punishments

AmanugaiToday at 6:54 PM
It's okay.  And as a sidenote, it's the reason that ! was originally a shadow ban of sorts, it couldn't really work that way in the end but it was something that was to be given discreetly so that there wouldn't be as much of a fuss.  Warned is obviously not the same since it blackens the name and clearly spells it out, to contrast.

I'm all about making people feel better, even about being punished.  There should be a reason, it should be clear and if possible as much incentive to not continue the bad behavior w/o being too heavy-handed

AnjulyToday at 6:55 PM
i guess there we are different
and that's ok

AmanugaiToday at 6:59 PM
Mhm.  I don't want to be attacking the way you do things but I would ask that you really consider how a person would feel coming out on the other end of that punishment is all..

It's the same thing guiding this conversation actually.  I don't want to have the others of the mod team (asides from Tyto who gave his opinion) be looking down on you for what I'm saying here.  Or to have them think of you differently b/c of a simple disagreement.  That's why this is here in DM's versus in mod-chat.

AnjulyToday at 7:03 PM
i'll add a note to explain further... i have had several dms throughout the time as an arch angel asking me why we didn't take action in certain situations, why we hadn't stepped up and gave the ! or warned role. these included bystanders but also the ones that were affected. it might be clear to the perpetrator, but i don't think it's clear to the rest of the server. that's where our disagreement lies. thank you for keeping it in dms, but they'll see in a bit that i have been demoted, they will be confused as to why

AmanugaiToday at 7:08 PM
I think that's understandable, we've had issues with that in the past with such.  I have seen you be clear with the rules violation and pointing it out, I just think it was taken a step or two too far in pointing it out or showing everyone how bad of a thing it is to have that rule violated in certain cases.  I feel that most people can see an interaction like that in one or two lines and get the point, especially if the word Rule is brought up.  In most cases if the person violating doesn't get it, it can then be explained further in DM's

It's up to you if you want the reason being made clear or not, if people ask for an explanation.  There's no reason for it to be a big issue in my opinion.  If questions are brought up they can be answered honestly.  "There was a disagreement with how server rules were specifically enforced" or something along those lines.
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I think otherwise it's probably best to leave it for tonight, since you do need to sleep.  Sorry I wasn't able to bring this up earlier and for bringing it up after a long day of school for you :/ I just didn't want to leave it for too long and have it seen as being too retroactive
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Thank you a lot for taking the time to explain things on your end as well dear

AnjulyToday at 7:13 PM
thank you babe for explaining. i do need to sleep, as i am getting a bit too upset just because of being overly exhausted and therefore emotional. now my mind is mostly going 'ways of enforcing doesn't matter anymore, as i won't be doing it anymore', which i know partly to being an overreaction, so i'll leave it and look at it again tomorrow with a fresh head

AmanugaiToday at 7:14 PM
mhm, and that's probably for the best.  Warmth Tight Hugs