#iqcoin @freenode

[20:16:20] * @moarrr ****************************************************************************************************************************
[20:16:56] <@moarrr> Random word to begin: Flat
[20:17:03] <Joeytje50> the universe?
[20:17:16] <@moarrr> urgh SleepersTide just left... great
[20:17:49] <@moarrr> c0rw1n, Joeytje50, lokote_jones, michagogo , rav3n_pl , sera__, starsoccer
[20:17:53] <@moarrr> wake up, game has started
[20:17:57] <Joeytje50> I'm awake
[20:18:07] <Joeytje50> I replied to Flat saying that's the shape of the universe
[20:18:15] <Joeytje50> that's how you're supposed to play this right?
[20:18:35] <@moarrr> indeed, you can play it any way you like, the more intelligent you prove to be, the more points you get, and the more likely you are to win
[20:18:36] <michagogo> The whole universe was in a hot dense state. Then, nearly 14 billion years ago, expansion started. Wait!
[20:19:48] <Joeytje50> if you call singularity a "hot dense state" then sure
[20:20:06] <michagogo> Joeytje50: Do you not recongize the quote? :-P
[20:20:18] <michagogo> recognize*
[20:20:29] <Joeytje50> no, should I?
[20:20:55] <michagogo> Also, though pizza is originally Italian, many foods sold as pizza bear little resemblance to the Italian version.
[20:21:05] <michagogo> Joeytje50: Do you watch much American TV?
[20:21:19] <Joeytje50> a few shows yes
[20:21:31] <Joeytje50> I like scrubs
[20:22:21] <michagogo> Joeytje50: http://www.metrolyrics.com/the-big-bang-theory-lyrics-barenaked-ladies.html
[20:22:41] <Joeytje50> anyway, about that pizza, I was in Rome 2 months ago or so, and I think their pizza resembles the american pizza sold at Domino's quite well
[20:22:41] <michagogo> (the TV show's theme song is only the first paragraph there -- the rest is an expanded vereiob
[20:22:44] <michagogo> version*
[20:23:11] <Joeytje50> ah, ok
[20:23:29] <Joeytje50> in the netherlands they usually cut out the intros anyway, so I wouldn't know that even if I'd watch it
[20:23:54] <michagogo> They do? o_O
[20:24:34] <Joeytje50> at most shows that start out with an intro they do
[20:24:45] <michagogo> Joeytje50: Well, it doesn't start with the theme song
[20:24:52] <Joeytje50> if it's a show that has a kind of introduction to the episode and the intro after that, they don't
[20:25:02] <michagogo> Joeytje50: It starts with a cou-
[20:25:06] <michagogo> yeah, it's that second one
[20:25:13] <michagogo> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0D2F2bisgMk
[20:26:41] <Joeytje50> ok, well I don't watch that show anyway
[20:27:02] <Joeytje50> so yeah
[20:27:52] <michagogo> Also, http://haraldkraft.de/thebigbangtheory/
[20:31:30] <Joeytje50> http://haraldkraft.de/thebigbangtheory/#snap109
[20:31:44] <Joeytje50> rofl, millennium as last pic?
[20:32:03] <sera__> so you're trying to prove your intelligence with quotes from tv-series? :D
[20:32:12] <Joeytje50> mich is
[20:32:27] <Joeytje50> I was just talking about the shape of the universe and he took it from there
[20:32:50] <michagogo> lol
[20:32:55] <Joeytje50> anyway
[20:33:01] <Joeytje50> let's eliminate both of you right away
[20:33:08] <Joeytje50> what came first, the chicken or the chicken-egg
[20:33:50] <sera__> gotta be the chicken, that's where the chicken-egg got its name from
[20:34:09] <starsoccer> nah its the egg
[20:34:15] <Joeytje50> michagogo: what do you think?
[20:34:33] <michagogo> The egg, because evolution
[20:34:43] <starsoccer> exactly
[20:34:44] <michagogo> A not-quite-chicken laid the first chicken egg
[20:34:52] <starsoccer> agreed
[20:35:06] <Joeytje50> see this is exactly what I thought
[20:35:17] <Joeytje50> all of you are not completely right
[20:35:25] <sera__> when it's laid by a not-quite-chicken it's a not-quite-chicken-egg
[20:35:37] <Joeytje50> because the answer is that it can't be answered unless you give me a good definition of a chicken-egg
[20:35:56] <Joeytje50> is a chicken-egg an egg laid by a chicken, or an egg that has a chicken growing in it
[20:36:01] <starsoccer> a chicken egg is an egg that when hatched will give a chicken
[20:36:14] <Joeytje50> depending on which it is, the answer is either chicken or egg
[20:36:28] <Joeytje50> so the answer is: define chicken-egg
[20:36:55] <starsoccer> lmfao i almost asked that too
[20:37:02] <Joeytje50> but you didn't
[20:37:10] <starsoccer> but i figured a chicken egg means it will hatch a chicken
[20:37:21] <sera__> nah
[20:37:22] * starsoccer thinks we consult the webster dictanary
[20:37:41] <Joeytje50> never assume, starsoccer
[20:37:45] <sera__> when you go buy chicken-eggs they're all chicken-eggs, no matter what would've come out if hatched
[20:37:48] <Joeytje50> it leads to confusions like the one you guys had
[20:38:11] <starsoccer> moarrr when is this starting?
[20:38:11] <michagogo> Pretty sure it's an egg that will product a chicken.
[20:38:20] <starsoccer> agreed
[20:38:27] <starsoccer> why does it matter how the egg got there
[20:38:29] <michagogo> In other words, the existance of the species that is the chicken began with the egg
[20:38:29] <@moarrr> its started already starsoccer
[20:38:34] <Joeytje50> michagogo: what about the eggs you eat?
[20:38:35] <starsoccer> ooo
[20:38:39] <Joeytje50> are those not chicken-eggs then?
[20:38:46] <sera__> like chicken-meat is meat coming from a chicken
[20:38:48] <Joeytje50> those will never hatch chickens
[20:38:54] <michagogo> Joeytje50: [14:38:27] <michagogo> In other words, the existance of the species that is the chicken began with the egg
[20:38:54] <sera__> not the other way round
[20:38:55] <Joeytje50> but I'm quite sure that counts as a chicken-egg
[20:38:59] <sera__> that doesn't make sense :D
[20:39:05] <starsoccer> next question
[20:39:05] <starsoccer> pls
[20:39:09] <Joeytje50> lol
[20:39:22] <michagogo> Joeytje50: Okay, so a chicken egg is one that contains the genetic material of a chicken
[20:39:32] <Joeytje50> k so we all agree that the answer is that you need to properly define chicken-egg before discussing this?
[20:39:41] <michagogo> That genetic material first came into existance in the egg
[20:39:59] <Joeytje50> we'd have to agree on defining that, mich
[20:40:04] <Joeytje50> nobody said that was the definition
[20:40:11] <sera__> before you can define the chicken-egg, you need to define the chicken
[20:40:12] <Joeytje50> so until we talk about that, no answer can be given
[20:40:24] <starsoccer> well its either you think the chicken randomly came into being or that something that wasnt a chicken made it
[20:40:45] <sera__> what was the difference between the ancestor of the first chicken and the chicken itself?
[20:41:07] <michagogo> starsoccer: Something that wasn't a chicken made a mutant egg
[20:41:11] <starsoccer> well last i checked ancestors of birds are dinosaurs
[20:41:18] <Joeytje50> lol
[20:41:22] <starsoccer> michagogo exactly
[20:41:29] <Joeytje50> but the parents of chickens aren't dinosaurs
[20:41:33] <Joeytje50> the ancestors are
[20:41:45] <Joeytje50> but it isn't like that a reptile laid an egg and a chicken hatched
[20:41:47] <starsoccer> http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/tech/science/2008-04-24-trex-chicken-dna_N.htm?csp=34
[20:42:03] <starsoccer> Joeytje50 over time they got smaller and feathery
[20:42:11] <Joeytje50> oh yes, they contain the same dna parts
[20:42:20] <Joeytje50> but so do humans and dogs
[20:42:24] <michagogo> starsoccer: In the form of random mutations and survival of the fittest
[20:42:25] <Joeytje50> doesn't mean dogs are our ancestors
[20:42:30] <Joeytje50> just means that dogs are mammals too
[20:42:38] <michagogo> starsoccer: Not "over time they got small and feathery" per se
[20:42:45] <starsoccer> yea
[20:42:48] <starsoccer> not per se
[20:42:54] <starsoccer> they could of got larger then smaller
[20:42:59] <starsoccer> or fatter then skinny
[20:43:01] <starsoccer> lol
[20:43:03] <sera__> we share 50% of our dna with bananas
[20:43:26] <Joeytje50> sera__: according to starsoccer, bananas are our ancestors
[20:43:42] <Joeytje50> by the way, bananas are the most radio-active fruit :D
[20:43:51] <sera__> or at least we got common ancestors
[20:43:51] <starsoccer> that was just the first article that came up in google lol
[20:43:59] <starsoccer> kk next question i think
[20:44:10] <Joeytje50> starsoccer: I just gave you a new subject
[20:44:15] <Joeytje50> if you wanna continue about that, go ahead
[20:44:19] <starsoccer> oo haha
[20:44:22] <starsoccer> i didnt know that
[20:44:23] <starsoccer> :(
[20:44:35] <Joeytje50> see that's why I'm going to win
[20:44:52] <starsoccer> hehe
[20:44:57] <starsoccer> kk well im bored sitting here
[20:45:02] <starsoccer> see ya later
[20:45:11] <Joeytje50> cya
[20:46:29] <Joeytje50> so sera__ yesterday I breathed in a carbon atom that was in your brain
[20:46:32] <Joeytje50> what's up with that
[20:46:40] <sera__> omg
[20:46:43] <sera__> hope you're well?
[20:46:45] <sera__> i'm so sorry
[20:46:46] * rav3n_pl (~rav3n_pl@91.235.254.37) has left #iqcoin ("Once you know what it is you want to be true, instinct is a very useful device for enabling you to know that it is")
[20:46:55] * starsoccer (~starsocce@207.12.89.33.static.nyinternet.net) has left #iqcoin
[20:46:56] <Joeytje50> don't be sorry
[20:47:07] <Joeytje50> got one from michagogo too
[20:47:23] <michagogo> Joeytje50: Erm, I doubt that
[20:47:29] <Joeytje50> don't doubt that
[20:47:42] <Joeytje50> if you calculate how many carbon atoms have ever been in your brain
[20:47:52] <Joeytje50> and then calculate how much of that went into CO2
[20:48:22] <Joeytje50> then it's not hard to imagine I breathed in at least one molecule of CO2 that contained a carbon atom that was once in your brain
[20:48:26] <@moarrr> Joeytje50: you seem to have a good advantage, i wonder if you can do that calculation ;)
[20:48:51] * @moarrr will give additional points for accurate mathematics
[20:49:54] <michagogo> Joeytje50: Well, yeah, but there are many carbon atoms out there
[20:50:10] <Joeytje50> yeah but I also breathe in and out a lot of carbon atoms out there
[20:50:25] <michagogo> The percentage of carbon atoms that have been in my brain versus all carbon atoms in existence is miniscule
[20:51:31] * @moarrr thinks its a tie between michagogo, Joeytje50  and sera__
[20:51:36] <sera__> they need some time to spread, i wouldn't be so sure if they manage to travel half the world in our lifetime
[20:51:50] <Joeytje50> oh yes they do
[20:52:11] <sera__> but we can be quite sure that we're all breathing atoms important personalities from history breathed too
[20:52:16] <Joeytje50> any carbon you exhale right now, spreads across the globe within a few days I believe
[20:52:22] <michagogo> Joeytje50: Why do you assume there's that much movement of atoms between ground level in Israel and ground level in The Netherlands
[20:52:25] <Joeytje50> or anything, actually
[20:52:27] <sera__> like, hey, that was like breathing caesar
[20:52:37] <michagogo> Joeytje50: Carbon dioxide is heavy.
[20:52:44] <Joeytje50> yeah I know
[20:52:47] <Joeytje50> but it still moves a lot
[20:53:22] <Joeytje50> but I'm sure the carbon you exhaled at the start of your life spread all across the globe already
[20:56:09] <sera__> it should be the same with water then. you all drank some of my urine today!
[20:56:25] <Joeytje50> yep we most certainly did
[20:56:46] * lokote_jones (~lokote_jo@199.59.56.47) has left #iqcoin
[20:56:49] <sera__> i think i'm more sorry about that than about the carbon ;)
[20:57:16] <Joeytje50> if you realise there are more water molecules in a glass of water than glasses of water in all the oceans on earth
[20:57:43] <Joeytje50> then there's almost no chance I don't drink atleast one molecule of water you've had in you a day
[21:00:06] <Joeytje50> anyway mich, about your point that there are so many more carbon atoms out there
[21:00:32] <Joeytje50> it's true that there are a lot of carbon atoms
[21:01:33] <sera__> you're right! wow.  6*10^24 molecoles per glass, compared to 5*10^21 glasses of water
[21:01:44] <Joeytje50> but there are so many carbon atoms in each exhale that all your breaths combined would definitely add up to a significant percentage of all carbon atoms, more than you'd think
[21:02:05] <Joeytje50> yup
[21:05:37] <Joeytje50> just looked it up, you exhale 0.45m³ of CO2 each day, which would be 1,21*10^25 molecules
[21:08:45] <Joeytje50> in 10 years you would exhale 3652.49 times as much, so 4.4*10^28 molecules
[21:09:05] <sera__> finding the numbers about the total amount of water was easier than finding the same about air^^
[21:09:46] <Joeytje50> what I found was 0.45m³ of CO2 per day
[21:10:04] <Joeytje50> and you exhale about 4% CO2, and inhale the atmospheric 0.035% CO2
[21:10:16] <michagogo> Joeytje50: And how much air is there in the atmosphere?
[21:10:43] <Joeytje50> 1 sec, calculating how much you then inhale per day
[21:11:57] <Joeytje50> you inhale 0.00875*1.21*10^25 = 1,06*10^23 molecules of CO2 every day
[21:12:28] <Joeytje50> according to wikipedia, "The atmosphere has a mass of about 5×1018 kg"
[21:12:36] <Joeytje50> 5*10^18 that is
[21:13:32] <michagogo> And what volume is that?
[21:14:26] <Joeytje50> 1,06*10^23 molecules of CO2 is 0.17 mols of CO2, which is 7.7kg of CO2
[21:14:44] <Joeytje50> that's 0.00875*0.45m³
[21:15:15] <Joeytje50> 0.004m³
[21:15:47] <Joeytje50> oh the volume of the atmosphere?
[21:16:09] <Joeytje50> well, "three quarters of which is within about 11 km"
[21:16:23] <Joeytje50> 3/4th of the atmosphere is within 11km
[21:16:45] <sera__> i used 12km, it should 4,9058593×10¹⁹ m³
[21:17:43] <Joeytje50> radius of the earth is 6368km, earth plus atmosphere then is 6380km
[21:20:00] <sera__> mh. had a miscalculation in there ...
[21:20:07] <sera__> 6*10^18 m³
[21:22:02] <Joeytje50> (4pi r³)/3 -> 1.088*10^21 for incl. atmosphere, 1.082*10^21 for excl. atmosphere
[21:23:10] <Joeytje50> which means the volume of 3/4th of the atmosphere is the difference, 6.13*10^18m³
[21:23:29] <sera__> qed
[21:23:32] <Joeytje50> anyway, back to the question about the chance of me inhaling mich's brain carbon
[21:23:52] <Joeytje50> if I inhale 7.7kg of CO2 each day
[21:24:01] <Joeytje50> I assume I did those calculations correctly
[21:25:33] <Joeytje50> 7.7kg of CO2 in the atmosphere of 5*10^18kg
[21:25:39] <Joeytje50> each day
[21:26:33] <Joeytje50> is 1.54*10^-16% of the atmosphere is CO2 with your carbon each day
[21:26:41] <Joeytje50> that is, (1.54*10^-16) %
[21:27:46] <Joeytje50> the chance that in the 1,06*10^23 molecules I breathe in, there is atleast one molecule of the (1.54*10^-16) % of the atmosphere
[21:29:29] <Joeytje50> is 1.06e23 * 1.54e-18 = 163240
[21:29:39] <Joeytje50> so 16324000%
[21:30:11] <Joeytje50> that's the chance of inhaling one molecule of CO2 you exhaled, if I did it all correctly
[21:30:31] <sera__> when they're equally spread
[21:30:41] * sera__ applauds
[21:30:48] <sera__> you should publish that somewhere
[21:31:17] <Joeytje50> and even if I got the amounts of inhaled and exhaled CO2 wrong, the ratio between them stays the same, if 4% and 0.035% are correct for exhaled and inhaled percentages of CO2 are indeed correct
[21:32:03] <Joeytje50> sera__: it doesn't really need the calculation really
[21:32:15] <Joeytje50> if you know how incredibly tiny atoms really are
[21:32:44] <Joeytje50> and then how much CO2 you exhale daily (4% of your exhaled breath, and that adds up quickly if you exhale a lot, which we do)
[21:33:18] <Joeytje50> then it makes sense that the chances that someone else, even if they're far away, inhales one of the gazillions of molecules you've had in you
[21:33:50] <Joeytje50> and since not a single molecule in your body stays in the same place for more than (iirc) 7 years
[21:34:27] <Joeytje50> if you're older than 7 years, all your carbon has either left you in the form of breath or hairs, urine, blood or other excretions
[21:34:52] <Joeytje50> yes, I just grouped hairs and blood under excretions
[21:39:04] <Joeytje50> so michagogo, convinced?
[21:39:55] <michagogo> Oh, lol -- forgot I was in here
[21:40:45] <michagogo> Joeytje50: Did you at any point address the issue of the actual spread of gasses across the globe?
[21:41:09] <c0rw1n> don't forget the diffusion over time
[21:41:14] <michagogo> And that
[21:41:41] <Joeytje50> um, diffusion over time is a factor of spreading across the globes
[21:41:52] <Joeytje50> the main factors are diffusion and wind
[21:41:57] <michagogo> Joeytje50: Because even if you inhale and exhale enough molecules to make the brain carbon thing likely, you still don't know that that enough carbon atoms to make that likely elsewhere will actually travel thousands of miles across the ocean
[21:43:02] <Joeytje50> ok, um
[21:43:23] <Joeytje50> in the netherlands we occasionally, when the weather has been dry for a while, get sahara sand on our cars
[21:43:47] <Joeytje50> that means the *sand*, wayyyy heavier and bigger particles than CO2, can travel all the way from the sahara to the Netherlands
[21:44:08] <Joeytje50> the dry weather is a factor because, unlike CO2, rain would make all the sand drop to the ground
[21:44:36] <Joeytje50> so if sahara sand can come all the way up to the Netherlands in the timespan of a period of dry weather
[21:44:59] <Joeytje50> then I am sure your CO2 can come all the way to the Netherlands in all those years you've been exhaling it
[21:45:07] <sera__> michagogo: if CO2 would be so inert as you assume, it couldn't be a greenhouse-gas
[21:45:31] <michagogo> Joeytje50: Okay, maybe, but do you have numbers to that effect?
[21:46:35] <Joeytje50> no I don't have numbers, and if I google for "time for (air|breath) to spread across the globe"
[21:47:03] <Joeytje50> I mostly get religious "spread this across the globe!" or anti-bacterial "how long does it take for an infection to spread across the globe"
[21:47:16] <Joeytje50> but I think the example of the saharan desert sand is enough proof
[21:47:26] <Joeytje50> if sand can travel that far in such a short time
[21:47:38] <Joeytje50> there's no chance your CO2 has not reached me within a month
[21:49:32] <Joeytje50> michagogo: k?
[21:49:48] <michagogo> Joeytje50: Not necessarily
[21:49:56] <michagogo> Unless you can back it up with numbers, that seems unlikely
[21:50:06] <Joeytje50> what?
[21:50:13] <Joeytje50> I didn't use numbers, but I did use data
[21:50:47] <Joeytje50> http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/wales/south_west/7206972.stm
[21:51:10] <Joeytje50> a reference about saharan sand reaching as high up as wales, roughly as far away as the Netherlands
[21:51:45] <Joeytje50> '"It is from a sand storm in the Sahara on 20 January," he said.'
[21:51:50] <Joeytje50> Last Updated: Thursday, 24 January 2008, 16:46 GMT
[21:51:52] <Joeytje50> so
[21:51:54] <Joeytje50> in 4 days
[21:52:05] <Joeytje50> the sand can go all the way from the sahara to wales
[21:52:10] <michagogo> Joeytje50: Do you have facts to back that up for carbon atoms?
[21:52:16] <Joeytje50> yes
[21:52:18] <Joeytje50> the fact DUH
[21:52:39] <Joeytje50> there is no reason for carbon atoms not to flow just as fast as sand
[21:52:43] <Joeytje50> through the air
[21:53:21] <Joeytje50> if you're smart enough, you can realise that if you would blow through a puff of smoke, and someone would stand behind it
[21:53:36] <Joeytje50> he would feel your breath before the most of the smoke has reached him
[21:53:56] <Joeytje50> so larger particles take more time to get there
[21:54:36] <Joeytje50> anyway, let's say even if CO2 wouldn't travel as fast as sand
[21:55:04] <Joeytje50> do you *really* claim that CO2 would *not* reach the Netherlands within the min. 16 years of your life?
[21:55:40] <Joeytje50> michagogo?
[21:55:59] <Joeytje50> oh
[21:56:30] <Joeytje50> another reference that shows that air travels roughly the same way as small particles such as smoke particles or saharan sand does:
[21:56:54] <Joeytje50> if people test aerodynamica, they do so by adding colored smoke to a wind tunnel
[21:56:57] <Joeytje50> and then track the smoke
[21:57:28] <Joeytje50> if smoke would not travel the same way as air would do, then why would scientists use it to test aerodynamica
[21:57:56] <Joeytje50> I know that's still not proving it with numbers, but QED