Prole Judgements R1

Judgement R1:

Ralton vs Torture:

Indo vs Veronica:

Ralton 1:

- Veronica fast. Scales above crossbow timing

Opening by saying your character > arrow timing in slow tier. Bold, but maybe not the best move.

- Indo slow.

- Indo struggles with small targets.

- Veronica climbs on its back and punches it hard.

Torture 1:

- As argued, Blake’s speed OOT.

- Indo speed scales to T Rex because it’s part T Rex. T Rex runs fast as a jeep.

- Veronica has OOT speed and irrelevant speed. She’s either OOT or Indo is faster.

- Indo tough---takes hits from other dinos.

- If Veronica jumps on its back, Indo thrashes around to knock her off like it did w/ raptor.

- If she keeps holding on, Indo smashes its back into cliff face and crushes her.

- If Veronica uses sword, it won’t work. Indo bulletproof.

- If Veronica stabs Indo’s eyes, it just sees through infrared.

- Veronica has no piercing. Bite oneshots.

- Indo has camo, Wuhu is loud and windy, Veronica’s anti-stealth sucks. Indo gets the first hit from stealth.

- Indo eats her for OHK.

Ralton 2:

- Can’t scale Indo to T Rex, it was made with a bunch of different animals---why not scale speed to giganotosaurus or carnotaurus, which it is also made of? Arbitrary to scale speed to T Rex.

- I Rex is a baby. Why scale to adult T Rex?

- Jurassic Park T Rex is not a real T Rex

I don’t see why this matters. Both I Rex and T Rex were made by the same process. They are equally fake.

- In surprisingly canon spinoff cartoon, Indo can’t catch children.

- If Torture thinks Blake’s speed is OOT, then call it out.

- Indo is stunned by an RPG, so Veronica can hurt it with punches

Ralton has now claimed that Veronica is faster than a crossbow timer and punches comparably hard to rocket launcher. Smelling an OOT.

- Veronica doesn’t need to eat as much so she can wait out until the Indo starves.

Okay. This is.. a bizarre argument.

- Indo camo is only good against dense foliage in the dark. Map is daytime and has sparse trees.

- Veronica will hear Indo coming. Torture’s arguement island is too loud is fake.

- Indo doesn’t IC use camo anyway.

- Indo also IC won’t try to crush Veronica if she gets on its back.

- Indo still sucks against human-sized targets.

Torture 2:

- All of the dinosaurs I Rex is made of run at around 30mph. Ralton can pick whichever one he wants to scale speed from and Indo’s still faster than Veronica.

- Indo wasn’t just made to look cool, was made to test limits of genetics, make ultimate dinosaur. Logically should be as fast as other top predator dinos.

- Not catching children is a weird antifeat from a kid’s show. In the movie Indo catches soldiers and velociraptors.

- If it tries and fails a stealth kill, it can just leave and try again and Veronica can’t chase it.

- Indo will IC retreat smartly.

- Indo has solid blunt dura, smashed through part of a building.

- Veronica weak, can’t hurt it.

- Veronica antistealth really sucks. She heard four guys trampling on dry leaves behind her.

- Indo camo comes from Cuttlefish genes, and Cuttlefish are very adaptable even in bright environments.

- Indo smart. Will pick good camo.

- Island loud, what you hear in game is not reflective of how loud a waterfall that big would actually be. Also there are birds and dogs making noise.

- Indo sneaks up on Veronica and eats her even if she punches back

Result:

Torture win by OOT.

As presented Veronica uses the Indo's size against it and pummels it on the back of the head from its back. It really has no answer to this and while I doubt Veronica really hits as hard as an RPG explosion the tree busting feat makes me buy that she could give it a concussion with several strong blows. Torture is unquestionably right that Indo oneshots her in one bite but for that to be a functional wincon, he also had to prove Indo's stealthy and fast enough to chomp her. This, he did not do. Torture spent too much energy dubiously arguing the island was loud and too little arguing his camo was good. Ralton tore apart its camo and demonstrated speed for his own character that was much too fast for Indo to catch. So fast, in fact, that she's OOT.
Ezio vs Tiger:

Ralton 1:

- Tiger strong, tough, very skilled.

- Ezio defaults to ambush. Tiger is very hard to ambush.

- Tiger hears Ezio sneaking up on him and punches him in the face.

- If Ezio tries to go ranged, Tiger jumps good and camps ranged spawn.

Torture 1:

- Ezio skilled. Fights lots of dudes at once.

- Lots of Tiger’s skill feats are disarming. Ezio’s weapons are attached to his hands.

-  Ezio cuts Tiger once and he dies to poison.

- Ezio survives big fall off a cliff and swordfights after. Tiger can’t oneshot him with punches.

- Neither Ezio or Tiger have much speed. Both blitz humans, both good at parkour. Ezio’s route is faster so all else equalized, Ezio gets there first.

Torture might have a point, but he doesn’t really go to any lengths to prove Ezio’s route to the ranged pickup is faster than Ezio’s. Eyeballing it myself, I don’t buy it.

- Ezio’s eaglevision means Tiger can’t hide from him.

- If Ezio gets gun he snipes Tiger and wins.

- If Ezio misses first shot, he distracts Tiger w/ traps, uses smokebombs to escape and shoots again.

- Ezio IC wouldn’t pass up gear. Likes indirect kills w/ gear.

Ralton 2:

- Ezio’s dura is fake, fall almost kills him.

- In game, less impressive falls OHKO.

- Even if he was as tough as Torture says, Tiger would target pressure points and eardrums.

- Tiger still skilled.

- Ezio IC does not jump to killing as a first option. Even lets people live who later come back to make him regret it.

- Tiger can keep fighting for a while after taking a much faster acting KO poison than Ezio’s.

- Ezio’s gun sucks and he needs to stand still to aim. Tiger closes gap and disarms him.

- Ezio’s traps also suck and take too long to throw & arm.

- Tiger is too smart/skilled to fall for traps anyway.

- Tiger has good senses, will sniff out Ezio from stealth.

- Tiger more mobile, more skilled, better physicals. Forces melee and wins.

Torture 2:

- Gameplay falling antifeats are fake. Cutscene Ezio tanks high falls.

- Ezio was not near death after carriage fall, immediately fought soldiers after.

This might be true but Torture links an 18 minute long video here as proof, not indicating where the feat happens. I skimmed it and I can’t see where it happens so IDK whether to believe him.

- Ralton misunderstands how Ezio fights IC. Ezio prefers using his opponent’s weapons if they have any, but Bronze Tiger doesn’t, so he’ll use his knives.

- Ezio only doesn’t kill civilians and he won’t consider Tiger one.

- Ezio’s poison *is* fast acting, it causes convulsions immediately which Tiger can’t fight while experiencing.

- Parkour actually doesn’t matter. Path to pickup is quicker by running, and neither chars have running feats so they get there around the same time.

I don’t see why he decided parkour doesn’t matter, it still lets them skip up to the ledge the ruins are on instead of taking the path the long way around.

- Ezio doesn’t just have gun. Also has throwing knives and crossbow, both of which are fas to aim + shoot.

- Ezio has impact bombs that don’t need to be triggered by walking into them.

- Ezio can overwhelm Tiger’s good senses with skunk bombs.

Result:

Tiger wins. Ralton did a great job demonstrating how Bronze Tiger countered everything Ezio had going for him, and then doubled down by showing the character's fatal weaknesses. Tiger is undoubtedly more acrobatic and skilled in hand to hand, and I buy Ralton's argument he'll use the former to force a melee he'll win with the latter. While many of Ralton's arguments were dubious, like Ezio treating Tiger as a civilian and Tiger sufficiently resisting poison that makes a person go into spasms to fight him, and I am sympathetic to Torture's point that cutscene Ezio is a lot more durable than gameplay Ezio, I ultimately have to give this to Ralton for presenting a more viable and consistent wincon.
Jojo vs Blake:

Ralton 1:

- Blake defaults to throatslit.

- Blake will parry Jojo’s sword and close reach gap. Wins straight melee.

- Even w/out reaching melee, Blake throws knives good, goes for the eyes.

- Blake fast. Blitzes mooks and scales to arrow timing in two ways.

Again, scaling to arrow timing in first post. Dangerous game.

- Blake stealthy. Can run silently & hide in plain sight.

- Blake can flash step & make illusions---easily closes gap.

Torture 1:

- Blake too fast, scales to bullet timing(?)

Ralton posted scaling to arrows, not bullets.

- Blake’s non-arrow speed feats are blitzing mooks. Jojo can fight Dio, who blitzes mooks too. Either Blake OOT speed or both are about as fast.

- Blake’s route is slightly slower, either get to ranged pickup at same time or Jojo gets there a little earlier.

Again, Torture hasn’t shown this to be true except pointing to the lake they have to go around. His character also doesn’t have a straight shot to the ranged pickup.

- Blake’s strength scaling sus, Ralton scales her to hurting a character with knives who tanks wood splintering blunt damage.

- Jojo is much stronger anyway. Throws anvil, tackle through wall, speedwagon scaling.

- If she tries to parry, Jojo channels Hamon through his sword and her daggers.

There is no proof for this and the feat instead links to Jojo channeling Hamon through his hands to KO a pilot.

- Jojo grapples and uses Hamon to give Blake a heart attack.

Again, no feat here. It just links to Jojo’s RT.

- Ralton argues Blake will throatslit. Jojo has taken a hole through his neck and kept fighting.

- If Blake slits Jojo’s neck, he hits her back and kills her before he dies of bloodloss/suffocation.

- Restates that Jojo can use Hamon to stop Blake’s heart

Again, no feat. It just links to the entire RT.

- Stealth is useless.

- Jojo has Hamon AOE by channeling through walls.

- Jojo can sense vibrations through liquid. Torture argues he can do this with seawater or spit as antistealth.

The feat he provides shows Jojo using a wine glass. He does not show that Jojo would think to try this with spit and Jojo does not have a container for it anyway. The nearest water is off a cliff maybe 100m drop.

- Jojo will camp temple at pickup site, send vibrations through the walls and pillars when Blake tries to sneak up on him.

Ralton 2:

- Jojo speed scaling fake. Cops Dio blitzes are distracted by him noselling bullets.

- Blake much faster, blitzes groups of mooks in seconds.

- Blake’s strength vs Jojo’s is irrelevant. She just needs to stab him and he has no piercing dura.

- Blake wouldn’t clash blades for Hamon channeling.

- Speedwagon scaling is fake.

- Blake can parry Jojo’s sword without needing to be stronger than him, just redirect his swing a short distance.

- Blake would rip out Jojo’s throat, not leave him with a hole in it. Even if he did live, Blake would retreat and let him die.

- AoE Hamon is fake. Wall Hamon moves in straight line, takes a lot of windup, only feat is killing vampire who is weak to it.

- Very unlikely to hit Blake anyway.

- Can’t use Joseph’s Hamon feats for Jonathan, they are two different characters.

- Blake, IC, goes straight to lethal throwing knives from stealth which mogs Jojo.

- Fight is decided by who tags first---Blake is obviously faster and stealthier.

Torture 2:

- Jonathan scaling to Joseph is real because Joseph was doing all that with no training and Jonathan has extensive Hamon training.

- Jojo can hold his breath for a long time and if Blake keeps hiding, he’ll just go for a swim. Running away is IC.

- Jojo can outlast Blake by using Hamon to attract food while she starves.

What’s with the dumb starving arguments this round? Anyway, this feat just links to the Hamon leaf glider so no proof from Torture on this.

Results:

Torture wins by OOT.

Ralton with a really good pick sabotaged by his own hubris. He successfully proved beyond a doubt that Blake fights efficiently and is incredibly stealthy, both qualities that I buy lead to her mogging Jojo with a throat slit despite the strength difference. Torture pulled out a unique counter to this because apparently Jojo's survived without a good chunk of his neck but this isn't a long term way for him to win the fight because Ralton showed Blake had plenty of options to just stab him and leave in the form of flash step teleportation and illusions. Where Ralton is dead wrong is that Blake doesn't do well in straight melee. She's weak as shit and her strength scaling is too, as he admits, and the very feat he uses to show IC parrying to get an opening says she had to be stronger than her opponent to do so. If Torture argued Jojo forcing a melee like Ralton did with Tiger against Ezio instead of dubious Hamon gimmicks, this might've been easily his round even without OOT. As it stands, Ralton flew too close to the sun and wanked his character to arrow timing and silent running in a tier where the tiersetter needs arrows to kill and hearing to counter stealth.